tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post2392550686889814315..comments2024-03-26T05:23:11.280-07:00Comments on WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: thomas ice and paul wilkinson: the sordid pre-tribulation rapture deception!Treena Gisbornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-53126997958115828522023-06-25T19:25:37.948-07:002023-06-25T19:25:37.948-07:00The "PTRC would have us believe that the any ...The "PTRC would have us believe that the any moment rapture theory encourages a believer to "godly living in an unholy age"!<br /><br /><br />What is so godly-living about believing in a devilish deception? They have satan knowing the timing of the second coming when the "pre-trib rapture" occurs! Scripture says only the Father knows the timing, thus the pretrib-rapture cult has inadvertantly revealed their father, Satan, liar-in-chief. (how is that godly living?)<br /><br />They are such liars. They claim to take scripture LITERALLY, verse-by-verse, chapter-by-chapter, but just watch them when it comes to Daniel 9 (God stopping His prophetic stopwatch!), or 1 Thessalonians 5 (7 years of tribulation, post rapture, not mentioned, right after chapter4!). Even their stated hermeneutic is a lie (how is that godly living?). They have been listening to the ideas of false prophet John Darby, sinning against Jesus' command at Matt 7:15-23, to beware false prophets (how is that godly living?). All their disobedience to Jesus' teachings deceive them thoroughly, see James 1:21,22 for proof. (How is that godly living?)<br />BTW, Matt 7:15-23 ends in their total disaster, destiny **no different** than those who blaspeme Holy Spirit, who are sent strong delusion by God (2 Thess 2:10-12), lying idolators, or who get the mark of the beast (how is that godly living?).<br /><br />Pre-tribbers cry Lord, Lord, but do not what He says, see Luke 6:46-49. Gonna end in disaster for them (how is that godly living?).<br /><br />Even their claim of godly living is a lying deception calculated to further deceive themselves and anyone in their sphere. Along with the other condemned religions of Watchtower, satanism, Seventh-day Adventism, Islam, Mormonism (all have satanic, false prophets), Dispensationalism is a major, modern spiritual cancer (how is that godly living?) that has infected many denominations, disobeying Jesus' command to deny SELF and follow Him = abide in His teachings. All their rebellion and stubbornness are accounted to them as witchcraft and idolatry, 1 Samuel 15:23.<br /><br />No man comes to the true Jesus without Father doing something first, see John 6:65. Without Jesus, these people can do nothing righteous, see John 15:5. These are two reasons for their christian fakery. The Spirit gives life and their fleshly fakery (deceiving, being deceived) profits them none, John 6:63.<br /><br />The jesus they have embraced and promote* is merely their imaginary jesus and in all actuality is an rancid idol.<br /><br />* the liar jesus who taught nobody but Father knows timing of the second coming, but knew all along that the devil will know 7 years prior to the second coming. This is sheer idolatry. They promote a liar, but label it jesus! Another of their wicked deceptions. Those who worship a liar, as Dispy's do, have been tricked into worshipping satan. Goes right along with satan being their father, as at some time he knows when the second coming is 7 years in advance.<br /><br /><br />The worst sort of clever men are those who know better than the Bible.<br /><br /><br />-- by Elmer G White<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-41737619604611383922023-06-24T19:07:29.641-07:002023-06-24T19:07:29.641-07:00Anonymous said: 12 October 2015 at 04:08
Can you ...Anonymous said: 12 October 2015 at 04:08<br /><br />Can you see how I smelt a dead rat, reading such hopscotch exegesis as the above?<br /><br />These men are faithful to their theology rather than what the Bible teaches?<br /><br /><br />You mean "faithful to their DECEPTIVE theology"? If they had merely abided in Jesus' words in John 6, they would have seen that the resurrection of saints by Jesus is on the LAST day, 4 times emphasized. Last means last! But they are not interested in abiding in Jesus' teachings, are they? They want all the wiggle room that hopscotching talk of trumpets affords, hoping their dispensational deception is really truth. Nobody wants to admit they've been deceived by satanic doctrine their whole lives! Deceived people always get things upside down. And God sends them strong delusion for failing to abide in Jesus' truth in John 6. Proof for their delusion in 2 Thess 2:10-12. They actually teach a foreign jesus, and 2 Cor 11:4,13-15 identifies such as ministers of satan. Their destiny is no different than those who get the mark of the beast.<br /><br /><br />-- by Elmer G White<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-68766285396336582122015-10-23T05:46:09.801-07:002015-10-23T05:46:09.801-07:00From webtruth.org/eschatology, taken from a writer...From webtruth.org/eschatology, taken from a writer infected by Dispensationalism. E.W.Rogers.<br />(You really ought to read it all).<br /><br />Surely, it is plain that our hope and that of Israel's differ one from the other. 'We look for a Saviour from heaven' (Phil 3.20) Whom we shall meet in the air; they look for a Deliverer on earth Whose feet will stand on the Mount of Olives (Zech 14.4). <br />We must always bear in mind that while 'all Scripture is God breathed and profitable' it does not all relate to us. Most of Scripture, indeed, relates to Israel and not to the Church at all, but it has all been written 'for our learning'. We make a great mistake if we suppose all that is in the New Testament is about us. For example, Matt 24 has to do with the Jew and not the Church. But we read it because we are interested in what our Father intends to do in connection with others.<br /><br />They (Dispensational theologians) call this "Rightly dividing the Word". I rather call it butchering the Word. Very sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-64856516506218822632015-10-22T14:28:35.643-07:002015-10-22T14:28:35.643-07:00Thank you Colin - especially for the bit re - my ...Thank you Colin - especially for the bit re - my 'marbles' - gave me a chuckle! It does take a lot more concentration and effort to post things these days though. <br /> I think all of my personal Christian friends are pre-trib and consider it not worth 'fighting' about - but I can't agree with them and never understand why the truth of God's word isn't more precious to them. If we are lovers of the truth then God will most certainly reveal the truth to us!<br />It's so good to be among like minded brothers and sisters here ..... And good to be in touch with you Colin<br />The Lord bless and keep you , EileenAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852987334395765380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-54889015443353003182015-10-22T12:14:35.321-07:002015-10-22T12:14:35.321-07:00Eileen,
Both actually! Mr Mitchell (previously PWM...Eileen,<br />Both actually! Mr Mitchell (previously PWMI & pre-trib)came to a position himself where he could see that the Bible didn't contain one verse that taught a pre-trib rapture. Subsequently to his credit he put much teaching on his website to warn against the manifest errors of this doctrine. The catalyst for Mitchell & Prasch pulling out of RTV was Jesse DuPlantiss, although there was previously many other issues festering under the surface about to give. I do often comment on Sarah Acott's blog "GodvsChristianity being once fleeced by these charlatans!<br />I think (if my memory serves me rightly) it may have been PWMI Paul Wilkinson, (our host may put me right on this) who also abandoned RTV at the same time because of their association with false/heretical teachers (a train crash in ultra slow-motion?)<br />I am glad that though you say your "memory isn't what it used to be" your marbles must still be in the right place to put together a post like you did!<br />Keep posting-and the Lord bless you.colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-74752321936519857162015-10-22T05:05:30.993-07:002015-10-22T05:05:30.993-07:00Hi Colin - my memory isn't what it used to be ...Hi Colin - my memory isn't what it used to be .... I wonder if it was about this subject or Rev.TV? EileenAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852987334395765380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-33261571574355186492015-10-19T14:17:23.005-07:002015-10-19T14:17:23.005-07:00Eileen,
Yes, I had that shock/horror moment some f...Eileen,<br />Yes, I had that shock/horror moment some five years back when I first heard THAT teaching! It seems that those who promulgate pre-tribulationism will twist any Scripture that they consider may offer some slender support to their unbiblical doctrine. <br />I am so very, very glad that God has revealed this truth to you. These things are hard when we are advanced in our years? There is so much truth in the old secular saying "you are never too old to learn"? You can plainly see that Dispensational/pre-tribulationism "splits the Gospel into two parts".<br />I have been in that same place before-expecting "Christian friends would soon see the same truth" as you say it. Sadly, it is not that simple as you have now found out.<br />I note what you say regards "lesser 'doctrine'". There are many evangelical Christians that talk about "essentials" and "non-essentials". But, when I read my Bible, I don't see any such distinction, anywhere. Show me one scripture that teaches this fallacy. All Scripture is God breathed "Given by inspiration of God" 2 Tim 3.16?<br />The Lord bless you.<br />I am sure I have communicated with you before on the old Shofar site (Bob Mitchell)?<br /><br />colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-43219619602385215202015-10-19T11:44:18.148-07:002015-10-19T11:44:18.148-07:00Thank you Eileen. Pre-trib is indeed a very strong...Thank you Eileen. Pre-trib is indeed a very strong deception. Anything that compromises God's word is important and I do not see this as a lesser doctrine either, though there are those who would disagree with me. God bless xTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-20960336268283434602015-10-19T06:49:22.828-07:002015-10-19T06:49:22.828-07:00When I became a Christian fifty years ago, I was t...When I became a Christian fifty years ago, I was taught the Pre-trib. Rapture .... I knew no different and saw no reason to question it. However, after hearing a presentation by a church member a couple of years ago regarding 'blood moons' and her expectations of the Rapture in Sept that year! etc the warning lights began to flash - especially when she said the 'falling away' (apostasy of the church) in 2Thess 2:3 wasn't the true meaning - it should be 'catching away' or 'taking away' .... I'd never heard that said before! <br />It changes the whole meaning of the Apostles words. Anyway, v2 equates the day of Christ with the Lord's coming and our gathering unto Him. The sequence of events is here in these verses : the church will apostatise , the Man of sin will be revealed to us - followed eventually by the coming Day of Christ.<br /> <br />I thank the Lord that He used this to open my eyes. I write a Blog on Wordpress myself and did a post on it there. In my naïveté , I expected Christian friends would soon see the same truth, and I try to encourage people to forget all the pre- trib teachings they may have had and go to the scriptures alone, but I fear it may have too strong a hold on them. I think it is a more important subject than we think if we try to relegate it to a lesser 'doctrine'. It is all God's word and should be valued as such. Why I think it is important is because the pre-trib. Rapture teaching splits the Gospel into two parts - you can be saved before the Rapture, but if you weren't 'ready' , well not to worry, there is a second chance for you , this time by your works - So it's best to go first and miss all that tribulation.<br /><br />May the Lord bless and keep youAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852987334395765380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-59540104924899541492015-10-15T01:55:08.624-07:002015-10-15T01:55:08.624-07:00I agree entirely with Treena. If I am attacking an...I agree entirely with Treena. If I am attacking anything, essentially it is the satanic doctrine of Dispensationalism of which its principal outworking is the pre-trib rapture. Obviously by teaching against this wicked doctrine, naturally it will be seen as attacking those who forcefully promulgate it! Can it ever be otherwise?<br />It is all well and good to come up with philosophical statements with an appearance of wisdom which make absolutely no sense, such as "I'd rather prepare to enter tribulation and be surprised by the rapture, than prepare for a pre-trib rapture and be surprised by the tribulation." First of all, HOW do you "prepare for a pre-trib rapture"? And besides people for aeons have "been surprised by tribulation" ever since we have been on the planet! There have always been "tribulation"; we are here talking about the GREAT tribulation! The "time of Jacob's trouble" a ONE off event!<br />We have much greater light than those who went before us and yet people still cling to this false teaching, I call it "satanic" because "Hath God said?" Genesis 3.1. No He hasn't separated Israel from the Church and taught a pre-trib rapture!<br />You know the strange thing is that people who believe this errant theology will still tell you that Christ could have come back at ANY time this last two millennia! Even BEFORE the apostles died! They hold on to this in spite of the veritable fact that the Saviour TOLD Peter how we was going to die, and as an old man! John 21.18-19. If the Saviour came back hundreds/thousand odd years ago, we wouldn't even have been born!!!! A sobering thought?<br />There are some Dispensationalists that have taught that Christ's 'offer' of the kingdom was genuine! If this was so, there would have been no Atonement! <br />Dispensationalism is a ghastly theology which shouldn't be continually modified, but abandoned altogether.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-32659762540408529532015-10-14T20:11:27.199-07:002015-10-14T20:11:27.199-07:00I don't really see this as proving that I am r...I don't really see this as proving that I am right Anon. This is not a "debate" in my view, it is about exposing serious deception which is lethal to the bride of Christ. God bless Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-66823897116357722962015-10-14T17:21:15.070-07:002015-10-14T17:21:15.070-07:00These attacks will come again and again and again....These attacks will come again and again and again. Attacks I say, not debates or discussions. Attacks. Brother against brother. This is not an opportunity for us to prove we're right, but rather, to prove we're HIS. I'd rather prepare to enter tribulation and be surprised by the rapture, rather than prepare for a pre-trib rapture and be surprised by tribulation. God's will be done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-78378455384730495252015-10-12T17:33:52.366-07:002015-10-12T17:33:52.366-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16349324857511400761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-14991159106784365712015-10-12T13:25:13.122-07:002015-10-12T13:25:13.122-07:00I agree Anon (12 Oct 2015 at 04:08)
A very sensibl...I agree Anon (12 Oct 2015 at 04:08)<br />A very sensible comment.<br />The error of Dispensationalism/pre-tribulationalism is that it has spread it's tentacles into nearly every area of Bible teaching. We could say it is cancerous?<br />I have often thought that if any of us were left alone on a desert island with all necessary provisions to live, and an average intellect with only a Bible to read (could we be left with anything better???) would any of us discover a secret/any moment/call it what you will rapture before the true rapture at the Lord's Second Advent? It has almost become a well worn cliché "there is not one Scripture that teaches a pre-trib rapture!?"<br /><br />Anyhow, if the disciples asked the question of the Lord's return in Matthew 24-25, as THE FOUNDERS OF THE NT CHURCH, then very clearly the pre-tribulation rapture theory falls apart! It becomes untenable. Therefore the disciples (under the false/Satanic Dispensational scheme must therefore not be identified with the Church (heavenly people), but with the earthly nation of Israel! How utterly incongruous to the plain teaching of Scripture? Was Old Testament Abraham 'earthly' when he "looked for a city which hath foundations whose builder and maker is God" Hebrews 11.10?<br />Sadly, so very few realise how the error of Dispensational theology has wreaked the great havoc that it has in the professing Church. May God continue to bless this website.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-81573398957219091582015-10-12T12:22:34.190-07:002015-10-12T12:22:34.190-07:00Paul Wilkinson et al ought to be prepared to answe...Paul Wilkinson et al ought to be prepared to answer questions raised and 'prove' why the men he accuses of being heretics are indeed so. Lindsey and LaHaye ...what can I say ....evil communications corrupt good manners. At the end of the day the origins of a pre-trib belief must be credited to Scrioture and NOT to men of dubious character. I remember hearing claims that other men had restored other truths to the body of Christ I.e. the word of faith, the watchtower, mormonism and adventism to name a few. Divisive language will cause division and the pre-trib camp may be encouraged to divide and separate from those of another belief on the timing of the rapture. This is the behaviour of a cult. An earthly man of dubious character 'restores' a lost truth to the church and then anyone who disagrees is a heretic? Things that make ya go hmmmmmm. God bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-61619194062357758622015-10-12T04:08:21.527-07:002015-10-12T04:08:21.527-07:00E.W.Bullinger on Revelation xi.15. from his APOCAL...E.W.Bullinger on Revelation xi.15. from his APOCALYPSE (1902) p 371.<br /><br />"This is called the "seventh" Trumpet, and it is the "last" of this special series. But it does not follow there will be none after: or, that a trumpet before it may not also be called the "last" relatively to another subject. In 1 Cor. xv. 51,52, we read of "the last trumpet: for a trumpet shall sound." In 1 Thess iv.16 we read that the Lord "shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel's voice, and with the trump of God." This is the "last" Trumpet as regards the church of God, but not the last absolutely. It will be sounded long before these judgments begin, in order to raise His sleeping saints, and take them up with the living saints, to be with Himself forever. There will be another great trumpet after the great Tribulation, immediately connected with the Lord's Apocalypse. See Matthew xxiv.31. This is subsequent to this "seventh Trumpet," for that Apocalypse is recorded in Rev. xix. So that the seventh Trumpet in Rev xi.15 is not the "last Trump," absolutely, but only relatively; for it is only THE LAST OF THIS SERIES OF SEVEN.(italics in original). Moreover this is neither called "the last": nor is it necessary for us so to call it. The Trump in 1 Cor. xv.51,52, is called the "last" with reference to the church of God. It is the Trump which shall close our connection with the earth; it will end up all longing expectation , and therefore there is a true sense in which it is our last Trump." <br /><br />He goes on!! Bullinger (best of friends with Sir Robert Anderson) was known as a hyper Dispensationalist, but, nevertheless I don't believe you will find any Dispensationalist will disagree with Bullinger's exegesis. All Dispensationalists have to deny that the seventh trumpet in Rev 11.15 is NOT the same as the trumpet in 1 Thess 4.16 and 1 Cor. 15.52, for their theory to hold water.<br />How much easier to believe that the church of God is ONE group of saved people from Adam to the great white throne?<br /><br />Can you see how I smelt a dead rat, reading such hopscotch exegesis as the above?<br />These men are faithful to their theology rather than what the Bible teaches? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-22372124587981653172015-10-12T03:49:35.427-07:002015-10-12T03:49:35.427-07:00Well I have not studied as you dear people, God Bl...Well I have not studied as you dear people, God Bless You for your knowledge, however I was thinking about all this, why would Christ meet half his bride in the air? also what about all the Christians who died horrible deaths throughout the centuries for their faith in Christ? the disciples, and also the Christians of today. I was taught the pre-trib theory, but it is not what I believe now. sorry if this sounds a simplistic but I have not studied theology. may God Bless you for alerting people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-45254079434929535842015-10-12T01:29:48.621-07:002015-10-12T01:29:48.621-07:00You bring up some very good points Anonymous. I ha...You bring up some very good points Anonymous. I have done a little research into "the last trump" and the difference between the silver trumpets and the shofar.<br /><br />Joe Schimmel recently likened the pre-trib leaders to Hananiah, the false prophet in Jeremiah 28. I also had a similar thought:<br /><br />Matthew 16:22-23 "And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, 'Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.' But he turned and said to Peter, 'Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.'"<br /><br />I do believe that the pre trib LEADERS are a hindrance to the purposes of the Lord and are leading people astray. God bless x Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-30364529187535680132015-10-11T10:04:00.914-07:002015-10-11T10:04:00.914-07:00I am glad that you have spent a not inconsiderable...I am glad that you have spent a not inconsiderable time into researching the deception known as Dispensationalism/pre-tribulationism. I always use a capital D as it is in my eyes a cult. It is interesting that those at PTRC would have us believe that the any moment rapture theory encourages a believer to "godly living in an unholy age"! When was there ever a holy age? The Bible knows nothing of it after the fall! Besides, these pre-trib teachers believe the Church is a parenthesis that started at Pentecost and will end with their mythical rapture some seven years before the Lord's Second Coming. Whereas the Bible teaches that God's Church consists of all Old & New Testament believers from Adam to the great white throne. Anyhow, do not such OLD TESTAMENT (nearly 3000 years before pre-trib doctrine came along!) Scriptures such as "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge" encourage a believer to be godly? And besides, does not the Bible tell us that "The LORD gave and the LORD hath taken away" Job 1.21? A true believer will be godly, because he/she is one of God's elect! None can be so presumptuous as to say he/she will be alive when the Lord returns? How many believers in the last 170 or so years have died believing in the any moment rapture deception?<br />Have you ever done a study on how the pre-trib teachers say the "last trump" is not the last trump? The mind boggles!!!<br />Keep up the good work and God bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com