tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post6665236879253345992..comments2024-03-26T05:23:11.280-07:00Comments on WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: IS THE STAR OF DAVID A LEGITIMATE SYMBOL FOR ISRAEL?Treena Gisbornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-8263910969112107442020-07-11T11:30:57.148-07:002020-07-11T11:30:57.148-07:00Thank you Carmen. God bless. Thank you Carmen. God bless. Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-15993945902076385612020-07-11T10:54:34.571-07:002020-07-11T10:54:34.571-07:00Excellent information. I have taught bible studies...Excellent information. I have taught bible studies on both genesis and revelation and am intrigued by them. Both books are linked so strongly. Can’t wait to read more on your blog!Carmenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08860778037757805996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-73791284160319669382017-04-08T01:15:32.279-07:002017-04-08T01:15:32.279-07:00I am thinking that that the Vatican and other inst...I am thinking that that the Vatican and other institutions like the Smithsonian have Nephilim DNA. Just as they defiled the human species in those days, will they do so again and produce hybrids through genetic engineering? These are just questions by the way.<br /><br />The Nephilim could not be saved - they were abominations who should never have come into being. They were completely evil and they were cannibals. The angels who committed this grave sin were expelled to Tartarus:<br /><br />And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— Jude 1:6, 2 Peter 2:4<br /><br />Angels do not marry, that is "the angels in heaven" Mark 12:25... these fallen angels sinned grievously in what they did. <br /><br />There is a question mark over Genesis 4:26.. "At that time people began to call upon the name of the Lord." Hebrew huchal from chalal to pollute, defile profane. Some difference is indicated in how people related to God...<br /><br />Only Noah and his immediate family were saved.. In other words, the wickedness of people on the earth extended to the descendants of Seth. After the flood there was the sin of Ham, also a descendant of Seth, and then we come to Nimrod from Cush, the son of Ham. Genesis 10:8. I do not think we can make a case for the Sethites to be any better than the descendants of Cain...??<br /><br />How did the Nephilim come to be on the earth after the flood?? Did fallen angels re-visit the earth? I do not think so as the angels who committed this sin were condemned to Tartarus. Did some of the Nephilim survive the flood or was the DNA in a member of Noah's family corrupted. We know that Noah was blameless in his generation... Genesis 6:9 We can only speculate. <br /><br />I probably will not post any more on this subject here in the comments, but I am preparing something to post separately.<br /><br />God blessTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-6326247427416232802017-04-07T17:27:16.639-07:002017-04-07T17:27:16.639-07:00Monopode, I am glad that I have given you "fo...Monopode, I am glad that I have given you "food for thought". It is well-worth another read, or two.<br /><br />That the prevailing patristic view that the "sons of God" were fallen angels is not up for debate. As Monopode rightly says, "the early church fathers didn't write the scriptures". Their writings are most certainly NOT inspired. <br /><br />Does not God's word very plainly say of many in the Apostolic (pre-patristic age) that "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest how that they all are not of us." 1 John 2.19? If this WAS true (as the scripture of truth says) before the patristic age, how much more so since?<br /><br />I only agree with the so-called "Church fathers" if their writings agree with the Bible (that is THE plumb-line).<br /><br />It very well may be that even the apostles could have believed the fallen angel theory? The New Testament is replete with the failings of the apostles, is it not? To suggest that they weren't influenced by "Jewish fables" of any kind would be very, very wide off the mark, as I believe they were all unbelieving Jews before Jesus CHOSE them for His ministry (just like the apostle Paul).<br /><br />"Gross darkness was upon this people" Isaiah 60.2. Jesus came into the world; "I am the light of the world" John 9.5. Monopode rightly observed what Jesus said in regard to "angels not marrying etc" (Matt 22.30, Mark 12.25), what is the natural result of marriage but procreation? I believe that the word of God in Christ, puts this matter to rest.<br /><br />I maintain that the Sethite 'view' has ALL the answers, lets face it, both 'views'can't be right-can they?<br /><br />If the union of fallen angels and womankind produced children (giants) the gravest question which almost no one seems to consider, is, where does the resultant hybrid stand in regard to salvation? for it is said "He took not on Him the nature of angels (that is those incapable of procreation); but He took on Him the seed of Abraham." Hebrews 2.16. As the "seed of Abraham" is humankind, then quite how the offspring of fallen angels and womankind stand in relation to our Saviour raises questions of the utterly utmost grotesque kind. Is THIS not obvious?<br /><br />Also, after the flood, the fallen angels must have been female! We can't get around this, or can we?<br /><br />It is good to discuss these things.<br /><br />May we all grow in grace and truth.<br />God bless.<br />colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-59826262823479021362017-04-07T14:03:22.954-07:002017-04-07T14:03:22.954-07:00Can I ask why you think it is relevant to the end ...Can I ask why you think it is relevant to the end times as there doesn't appear to be much said in the New Testament, If anything? If it is 5th century as you say then that would put a different spin on it. There is no new revelation after the apostles I'm sure you would agree although I suppose it could be argued that things in the book of Revelation would have confounded anyone until recent times. Doesn't quite seem the same in this instance though.Monopodehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10577151700144464122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-87132123222672731012017-04-07T09:40:52.544-07:002017-04-07T09:40:52.544-07:00I am referring to the Sethite view which was intro...I am referring to the Sethite view which was introduced in the 5th century. The "giant" view seems to have been a given... the scriptures, the church fathers, Josephus the Jewish historian, the Book of Enoch and other extra biblical material, plus the myths of various ancient cultures. I personally find it compelling. I would not bother discussing it, except that I am more and more convinced that it has some relevance to the end times. <br />Thank you for your input Monopode. <br />God bless. Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-63453383312935192222017-04-07T08:46:41.237-07:002017-04-07T08:46:41.237-07:00Yet no direct scripture saying they were the offsp...Yet no direct scripture saying they were the offspring of angels and humans putting the theory on the level of the pre trib rapture perhaps?<br /><br />Which doctrine are you referring to? The idea that the sons of God were the descendants of Seth? I agree that it isn't clear especially when angels are referred to as sons of God elsewhere in the bible. I'll look forward to reading your findings. <br /><br />I steer well clear of Chuck Missler. I have more respect for Prasch as a scholar than Missler and my opinion of Prasch is the lowest it's ever been in terms of his teachings.<br /><br />Monopodehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10577151700144464122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-61189060043166040352017-04-07T07:04:31.494-07:002017-04-07T07:04:31.494-07:00I am always suspicious of "doctrines" th...I am always suspicious of "doctrines" that have been added later on ... the pre-trib rapture for instance. There are scriptures about giants apart from Genesis 6: <br /><br />And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them. Numbers 13:33<br /><br />(For only Og the king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaim. Behold, his bed was a bed of iron. Is it not in Rabbah of the Ammonites? Nine cubits was its length, and four cubits its breadth, according to the common cubit.) (Deuteronomy 3:11)<br /><br />And there came out from the camp of the Philistines a champion named Goliath of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. (1 Samuel 17:4)<br /><br />These four were descended from the giants in Gath, and they fell by the hand of David and by the hand of his servants. (2 Samuel 21:16-22; 1 Chronicals 20:4-8)<br /><br />God bless.Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-61067651779347858842017-04-07T06:44:47.562-07:002017-04-07T06:44:47.562-07:00Maybe but there isn't much to go on in the bib...Maybe but there isn't much to go on in the bible is there? That's why it's conjecture at best. The early church fathers didn't write the scriptures so although their interpretations are interesting that's all they are. Interpretations without the weight of God's own black and white words.Monopodehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10577151700144464122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-41174089816605515632017-04-07T03:48:45.222-07:002017-04-07T03:48:45.222-07:00"Celsus and Julian the Apostate used the trad..."Celsus and Julian the Apostate used the traditional “angel” belief to attack Christianity. Julius Africanus resorted to the Sethite interpretation as a more comfortable ground. Cyril of Alexandria also repudiated the orthodox “angel” position with the “line of Seth” interpretation. Augustine also embraced the Sethite theory and thus it prevailed into the Middle Ages. It is still widely taught today among many churches who find the literal “angel” view a bit disturbing. There are many outstanding Bible teachers who still defend this view." <br /><br />https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2013/10/07/chuck-missler-return-of-the-nephilim-the-biblical-perspective-on-the-modern-ufo-alien-phenomena/<br /><br />BTW I do not endorse Chuck Missler at all, but this information appears to be right.<br /><br />God bless Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-16882489248681526002017-04-07T03:43:26.341-07:002017-04-07T03:43:26.341-07:00It was the predominate view in the early church th...It was the predominate view in the early church that giants were the offspring of fallen angels. <br /><br />Irenaeus: "And wickedness very long-continued and widespread pervaded all the races of men, until very little seed of justice was in them. For unlawful unions came about on earth, as angels linked themselves with offspring of the daughters of men, who bore to them sons, who on account of their exceeding great were called Giants. The angels, then, brought to their wives as gifts teachings of evil, for they taught them the virtues of roots and herbs, and dyeing and cosmetics and discoveries of precious materials,love-philtes, hatreds, amours, passions, constraints of love, the bonds of witchcraft, every sorcery and idolatry, hateful to God; and when this was come into the world, the affairs of wickedness were propagated to overflowing, and those of justice dwindled to very little." <br />This link gives the views of other early church fathers.<br />http://thestrongdelusion.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1207&Itemid=9<br /><br />The alternative view came about due to Augustine of Hippo I believe, but I am not sure. <br /><br />God blessTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-87945749300616100192017-04-07T02:21:00.628-07:002017-04-07T02:21:00.628-07:00I read Bonar's chapter on the sons of God (and...I read Bonar's chapter on the sons of God (and a few more besides) and found it to be an interesting theory. There's some extra biblical notions in it but the basic idea that Seth and Cain's descendants intermingled (improving the gene pool as a result) and produced healthier specimens with physical and possibly mental advantages is an attractive answer to the difficult passages in Genesis. I wouldn't say I'm convinced but it has given me food for thought. Thank you, Colin. <br /><br />Angels and humans mating was always problematic in my mind given what Jesus said about angels not marrying etc but I'd got to the point where I thought just because they do not mate doesn't mean they can't. Plus what we now know about the processes of conception and gestation and what advanced things scientists can do made me wonder if angels with their superior knowledge and abilities had circumnavigated the natural process somehow. <br /><br />The passages in Genesis 6 haven't kept me awake at night but have always puzzled me. Reading them again in light of Bonar's words does make sense of the issue. We read in chapter 5 about Adam's godly line, then in 6 men multiply on the earth and have daughters, then the sons of God take wives of their own choosing (not God's?) and produce mighty men. It's persuasive.Monopodehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10577151700144464122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-3400899960467059382017-04-04T09:35:07.825-07:002017-04-04T09:35:07.825-07:00Thank you Colin.
God will send them (those who ...Thank you Colin. <br /><br />God will send them (those who refuse to love the truth) a "powerful delusion" (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12. Just as many people are oblivious to sensuality in its various perverted forms in our time, will people become more and more insensitive and oblivious to sin? <br /><br />Another scripture: "But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power." (2 Timothy 3:1-5). <br /><br />Many people were oblivious to Hitler's evil at the time ?? Just a few thoughts. <br />God blessTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-74543141924112582632017-04-04T08:46:15.505-07:002017-04-04T08:46:15.505-07:00I would refer Monopode to "Earth's Mornin...I would refer Monopode to "Earth's Morning" by Horatius Bonar a Scottish pre-millennial theologian who sat under the renowned Thomas Chalmers who gave us the wretched "gap" theory of millions of years between Genesis 1.1 and 1.2!<br /><br />This compromise as it were was because of the relentless onslaught of Darwinism that was taking part in their day, this "gap" theory was seen as a way of incorporating mans new found geological 'knowledge' with the Bible! And as we know compromise is doomed to failure!<br /><br />But, anyway, back to "Earth's Morning" (thoughts in Genesis) if Monopode would like to look up https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=miun.ajh0520.0001.001 he may find pages 369-376 on the "Sons of God" to be most helpful.<br />God bless.colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-85840036467342772492017-04-04T07:51:43.598-07:002017-04-04T07:51:43.598-07:00It appears to say both things Monopode:
"The ...It appears to say both things Monopode:<br />"The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."... "Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence. 12And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth." 6:5;11-12 The very same chapter Genesis 6:4 mentions the Nephilim. <br />Also Matthew 24:37, Luke 17:26<br />I do not claim to have the answers - I am researching/praying. <br />I do hope to make some sense of it, and when I do I will write something.<br />It is good that you are asking questions/seeking answers for yourself.. <br />God bless<br />Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-22109860709906496602017-04-04T06:30:42.225-07:002017-04-04T06:30:42.225-07:00I read Enoch once and am aware Jude made reference...I read Enoch once and am aware Jude made reference to one incident concerning Michael which shows us a confrontation between two angelic princes. That incident then is true and I have a vague memory that Enoch is referenced somewhere else in the New Testament but can't quite bring it to mind. As I said I have only read it once but it certainly is not a God breathed book and I wouldn't put much stock in it apart from where it is confirmed in scripture.<br /><br />Are you saying there is something in the original language that makes you think Jesus meant that things will be exactly like they were before the flood? In English, it seems to me, he qualifies what he means by saying people will be going about their normal business as in the days of Noah, not that nephilim will be walking the earth. Surely he is talking only about sinful people going about their lives as usual before being overtaken by judgment? Monopodehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10577151700144464122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-4540894987790513112017-04-03T13:15:06.548-07:002017-04-03T13:15:06.548-07:00Jude referred to I Enoch as "prophetic" ...Jude referred to I Enoch as "prophetic" Monopode. I am convinced about the giants personally for a number of reasons, but I know that Colin does not agree. What does concern me is that the last days will be "just as" i.e. "exactly" like the days of Noah - the text is emphatic. If I am correct, then there would have been giants and all sorts of hybrid creatures around during Noah's time. This makes it relevant for the terminal generation. I am thinking about transhumanism and bioengineering i.e. what sort of creatures scientists will produce, or are already producing, in our time. I am researching this and I will be posting about it. God bless. Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-9943468156119022752017-04-03T12:49:43.884-07:002017-04-03T12:49:43.884-07:00There isn't enough information in Genesis to s...There isn't enough information in Genesis to say definitively what these giants were. I've heard a couple of theories. One about descendants of Seth and descendants of Cain marrying which I don't accept because I cannot see how that would result in anything other than normal humans. The idea of disobedient angelic creatures sounds more likely given the strange offspring but again there just isn't enough information. We don't know nor will we in our earthly days. Enoch is interesting and all that but not part of the scriptures so there's no way to get any satisfactory answer.Monopodehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10577151700144464122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-835809983024256992017-03-29T03:54:50.163-07:002017-03-29T03:54:50.163-07:00Glad you asked.
What I mean by Proverbs 21.1, is ...Glad you asked. <br />What I mean by Proverbs 21.1, is that God is 'micro-managing' human affairs, yet sinful man has 'free-will'. I realize that many good men and women would disagree with me, but it is what I sincerely believe; pre-destination/election/sovereignty of God etc. So if we believe this, then how come the book of Enoch isn't in God's word? (God uses humans as His instruments to fulfill His purposes).<br /><br />"Forever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven". Psalm 119.89. (Is it?-I hope so!)<br /><br />Some think Enoch should have been incorporated into the Scripture of truth. I am sure if it WAS inspired, it would have been? I believe this fallen angel theory (aka Jewish fables) to be most ghastly, and it sends some 'teachers' into realms of fantasy.<br />God bless.<br /><br />The issue of Christians supporting the building of the third temple is bizarre-you would think they would know better. I personally know a group of Christians that helped with the reconstruction of an orthodox Jewish synagogue in Israel some years back-I kid you not!colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-74428567117136653192017-03-29T01:35:58.030-07:002017-03-29T01:35:58.030-07:00As you say Colin the star of David is a secular sy...As you say Colin the star of David is a secular symbol for unbelieving Israel at this time.. God sometimes uses his enemies to achieve His will, as in Habakkuk 1:5-11. God spoke his intention to raise up Babylon - a ruthless and dreaded nation to achieve his purpose for Israel. That is not to say that Babylon was approved by God at all. The same goes I believe for the satanic symbol of the star of David.. I do have a problem with Christian teachers such as Jacob Prasch who promote this symbol. It is also true of those supporting the third temple - it will happen, but it is not for Christians to support the work of the Antichrist.<br />I would dearly like to go on the expedition to Peru that GENSIX Productions/truelegends are organising, but sadly it is way out of my reach. I shall have to be satisfied with the films and other research I think. <br />I am not sure what you mean by Proverbs 21:1?<br />God bless Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-81233005530701006422017-03-28T13:47:20.518-07:002017-03-28T13:47:20.518-07:00I look forward to the conclusion of your continued...I look forward to the conclusion of your continued research. <br />I have no difficulty with the "Star of David"; why would a believing nation have such a symbol? The answer lies in the fact that Israel as a nation has not yet been converted: When Christ arrives, she certainly will be!<br /><br />I WONDER why God in Christ DIDN'T ordain the book of Enoch to be incorporated in the Scripture of truth? If we believe Proverbs 21.1 (just for one example!), we will have no difficulty in understanding the truth on this matter!<br />God bless. colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-77384746326547006942017-03-27T17:33:31.954-07:002017-03-27T17:33:31.954-07:00There is much more I could have said about the sta...There is much more I could have said about the star of David Colin but space did not permit.<br /><br />I have been doing a bit more research into the Nephilim, I already had I Enoch and now have the Book of Giants. These were illicit hybrid creatures, half angelic half human that could not easily procreate. They could not be saved and were condemned by God to be evil spirits on the earth. There is a very big cover up by the Vatican, the Smithsonian etc. I have been thinking a lot about this recently.. it is very relevant to the end times "just as it was in the days of Noah.." <br /><br />Sardinia has much evidence that has not been destroyed yet and also Peru. <br />Timothy Alberino is worth watching on youtube. God bless.<br /><br />https://www.sott.net/article/281093-The-truth-about-giant-skeletons-in-American-Indian-mounds-and-the-Smithsonian-cover-up <br />http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/giant-human-skeletons-discovered-in-wisconsin/ Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-87678860472153311902017-03-27T15:28:37.664-07:002017-03-27T15:28:37.664-07:00I certainly believe that the "Star of David&q...I certainly believe that the "Star of David" so-called has NO biblical foundation whatsoever. It is not too difficult (as you have clearly shown) to see that this is indeed the case. <br /><br />In the Pentateuch do we not read that the 'candlestick', or rather the menorah, along with the olive branches and other such similar biblical symbolism (Lion of Judah, ships of Zebulun,hind of Naphtali etc), that we find recorded in Jacob's dying blessings to his sons in the chapter 49 of the book of Genesis, are clear biblical depictions? Should not what is recorded in the Scripture of truth be the basis for an emblematic flag for the head of the nations? You would think so! And at first, this was the case when the "standards" or "ensigns" were displayed outside the respective tribal camps as recorded in Numbers 1.52, 2.2, 2.3, 2.10 etc.<br /><br />As for the Nephilim; without a doubt, I believe they were most certainly NOT the result of fallen angels and "daughters of men" coming together. How would the offspring of such a liaison stand in relation to Christ as Saviour? Would they be men, semi-men, semi angels or what? Where are they now? How could they be capable of salvation by Christ? How can they believe on Him who took not on Him the nature of angels, but took on Him the seed of Abraham??<br /><br />God bless.colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.com