tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post709983719698402192..comments2024-03-26T05:23:11.280-07:00Comments on WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: jacob prasch moriel ministries: the rapture, the holy spirit and the restrainer: some difficult questions about the intra-seal position - 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12Treena Gisbornhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-28781581695124707112016-07-19T00:30:37.614-07:002016-07-19T00:30:37.614-07:00To heap personal insults and to attempt to belittl...To heap personal insults and to attempt to belittle others within the Body of Christ is unworthy behaviour of any Christian, let alone a leader/teacher. We should be particularly careful about damaging the Body of Christ and grieving the Holy Spirit:<br /><br />"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:29-32 cf.Colossians 3:8)<br /><br />The Bible tells us not to associate with verbal abusers (revilers) bearing the nam of "brother" (1 Corinthians 5:11) It appears that there is a very ugly side to JP and Moriel - JP is a habitual reviler... the trickle of those complaining about his verbal abuse has grown into a positive stream. Moriel is not a nice "ministry".<br /><br />I have actually proved scripturally that the tribulation is NOT SEVEN YEARS. As for JP's restrainer concoction - it is unsustainable and presumptuous to teach it as doctrine. JP must find it very humiliating to be exposed... perhaps this explains his appalling behaviour in calling my exposition "nonsense" etc. I suggest that his verbal abuse is a smoke screen/defence mechanism to cover his scripture twisting.<br /><br />We all have a choice... if we do not turn away from error, then I believe that God will allow us to fall into greater error - a little yeast. If we do not love the truth or respond to correction then there are serious consequences.<br /><br />Teachers have a greater responsibility in this area and will be judged more strictly (James 3:1)<br /><br />If we judge ourselves, we will not be judged by the Lord (1 Corinthians 11:31-32).<br /><br />I have a sense that if JP does not put this matter right then the Lord will deal with him. I have had some thoughts about Pharoah hardening his own heart.(Exodus 8) JP is playing with fire!<br /><br />Thank you Deborah. God bless.Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-2938302412923847882016-07-18T03:35:28.161-07:002016-07-18T03:35:28.161-07:00As much as I do not agree with the this websites d...As much as I do not agree with the this websites doctrine, I totally DISAGREE with the way Prash has attacked the author of this site. But it’s normal and Treena you must get used to it if you want to continue exposing Jacob Prasch. See here: https://www.discerningtheworld.com/2012/12/14/discerning-the-world-defence-from-the-attacks-of-jacob-prasch-and-moriel-ministries/<br /><br />Jacob Prash has been attacking me for nearly 3 years now and now he is attacking Tom Lessing too. He says I am possessed and mentally insane because I suffer from an auto-immune disease called Systemic Lupus. Thank goodness Jacob is not a Doctor can you imagine... everyone in his care would be classed as possessed and insane if you disagreed with him. When Prash does not have answers to your questions out come the insults, and below the belt they are. <br /><br />But you know what? The more he insults you and the more people read his vile insults the more people open their eyes and will step back from him, put on their running shoes and run away from him. The ones that stay with him, well they have a same personality he does: mean and nasty.<br /><br />It will be ok Treena, they are fortunately just words. When he comes wielding a machette, then I would say you have a problem LOLDeborah (Discerning the World)http://www.discerningtheworld.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-48379678278934301972016-07-17T14:13:42.031-07:002016-07-17T14:13:42.031-07:00I too agree with Monopode. He puts his point acros...I too agree with Monopode. He puts his point across very well!<br />It is so good that many 'ordinary' believers (of which I am one) can say with the writer to the Hebrews "And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, And every man his brother, saying Know the Lord: For all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. Hebrews 8.11. <br />Thank God in Christ for His Holy Spirit.colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-7872531337301329532016-07-17T04:19:00.476-07:002016-07-17T04:19:00.476-07:00Jacob Prasch has caused his own ruckus Monopode! A...Jacob Prasch has caused his own ruckus Monopode! Apart from that, I fully agree with all your points. I think that you and I both are "weak believers" in JP eyes... God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble (James 4:6). Thank God that He is with us lesser mortals .... God bless you Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-13503632617087068802016-07-17T04:03:45.951-07:002016-07-17T04:03:45.951-07:00I seem to have caused a ruckus. This certainly was...I seem to have caused a ruckus. This certainly wasn't my intention. I did not attempt to say Prasch believed in more than one definition of the gospel but I was concerned when I heard him say that at this time the gospel as we know it will not be preached but rather the gospel of the kingdom. Treena pointed out that this wasn't the case and I was relieved to hear it. However, I think his wording was unwise and confusing. Perhaps he should spend as much time considering English as he does the biblical languages. <br /><br />I may be a weak believer and definitely no scholar but I am a member of the body of Christ and entitled to pick apart any man's teaching. In biblical matters I do sometimes feel like a child listening to the grown ups talk despite being an adult with a family and responsibilities. Weak and none too bright I am but I do know the Scriptures do not expicitly identify the restrainer and so can say with confidence that no teacher should declare that they KNOW with such conviction. It is only an opinion. <br /><br />God gave us apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. He didn't give us lecturers. <br /><br />And there is nothing wrong with believers debating and swapping ideas through blogs and websites. A lot of us are isolated because of the apostasy.Monopodehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10577151700144464122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-28122716471566425412016-07-16T03:55:26.251-07:002016-07-16T03:55:26.251-07:00If anything we are predestined to hell and it'...If anything we are predestined to hell and it's Christ Jesus who sets us free through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. God bless alljeffo365https://www.blogger.com/profile/11249289802675591352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-52897203531170079812016-07-15T19:20:02.356-07:002016-07-15T19:20:02.356-07:00Joe Schimmel makes a very good case for Michael th...Joe Schimmel makes a very good case for Michael the Archangel as the Restrainer. Like Alan Kurschner, Joe is very wise in not being dogmatic. I really do recommend this teaching for those being browbeaten by Jacob Prasch into accepting his convoluted and confusing position for the Holy Spirit which he teaches dogmatically. The link is below. God bless.<br /><br />m/series/blessed-hope-chapel/the-revelation-series-the-amazing-mission-of-the-archangel-michaelTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-77973672724538781812016-07-15T13:53:45.502-07:002016-07-15T13:53:45.502-07:00JP has just released yet another video on this sub...JP has just released yet another video on this subject which I am listening to now. It is called: THE GREAT RESTRAINER AND 7 YEAR TRIBULATION-MORIEL TV PRESENTS-JAMES JACOB PRASCH- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYEzOBLIO90<br /><br />I see that he now does translate tribulation as "anguish" in John 16:21... he did not do so previously. <br /><br />JP: "John chapter 16 in verses 20-22, Jesus speaks of His Second Coming as being proceeded by the Birth Pangs seen in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and as is illustrated in the vision of the woman in travail in Revelation chapter 12." <br /><br />John 16:20-22 is the birth of the church, Jesus is NOT speaking of his second coming or the end times in John 16:16-24.... My point is that the primary meaning does not have PERSECUTION as I have exlained above.<br /><br />Our anonymous writer is either JP himself or his representative... he continues in a similar vein to his first comment and is equally derogatory. In any event, I do believe that these are JP's own words... he may contradict this if he wishes, but I shall take it to be so.<br /><br />JP refers above to: ".....the first half of the last 7 years of the beginning of birth pangs" .... three and a half years Cherie.<br /><br />I am very tired now. I will listen fully to the latest version over the week end and give it some more thought and prayer.<br /><br />God blessTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-87889584750827023742016-07-15T12:28:47.839-07:002016-07-15T12:28:47.839-07:00With all due respect, Treena, Jacob never said tha...With all due respect, Treena, Jacob never said that birth pangs are 3.5 years. The whole issue with the Pre, Post and Mid Tribulation dispute is how long the Tribulation is and how it is determined. Jacob has said that the Tribulation is the 3.5 years Satan reigns in Anti-Christ, which is a mirror of the years Jesus was in ministry. I tend to side with the Word of God, that the Rapture is indeed described in Scripture, but in no way says it is before the Tribulation. God's Wrath is not the Tribulation, and as we see in the Genesis account of Lot, he was in tribulation, being vex by the people of the city in which he lived as well as the response from his son-inlaws when he warned them.<br /><br />I do not believe Jacob himself wrote the comment, as in one sentence he uses himself in the third person, which I have never seen Jacob do as of yet, and if this is the case, that is an issue in and of itself, letting others respond for him and letting others take on things that they shouldn't when people reach out to him. It is very disturbing Jacob preaches about those in leadership saying and acting like, "touch not my anointed" and then seems, I SAID SEEMS, to do likewise. <br /><br />I have never heard Jacob say the Tribulation is seven years in length. That is not the case. I found it very easy to understand his position and his teaching, when I listen to his older teachings. The recent teachings are not very good as they spend a lot of time calling out those who oppose his views, not that that is a bad thing alone, but he needs to teach, not call out those who are in error where we already know they are. Sometimes I believe, he does not get good counsel from those in his camp.<br /><br />I pray that you can see what I am saying, as what he has taught is backed by Scripture, but his insistence on being so academic, is what causes confusion and makes it tough to understand. Jacob has two other teachings that are very seriously in error, and it is heartbreaking to see such a change as he has not said before what he has recently taught (last few years and this year). And if Jacob can only respond out of a offended heart, perhaps we should pray for a brother who, by his comments about the change in Martin Luther, may be happening to him, to some degree. <br /><br />There is a shaking going on that no one wants to address, but I am not afraid to address before it gets too far. I pray that someone will listen. I am not the only one who has noticed a change and I spend time in pray asking God's guidance on this matter. <br /><br />Also, be wary of people and groups calling themselves the Remnant or Remnant Ecclesia, only God knows who the Remnant is, and people like this only exclude those the feel are not in the group or qualify for the group based on gossip. Shalom<br /><br />your sister in Christ Jesus,<br />Cherie c.<br /><br />Cherie c.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-37035891815438856872016-07-15T09:34:36.918-07:002016-07-15T09:34:36.918-07:00Rob I have been thinking about you a lot over the ...Rob I have been thinking about you a lot over the last few days in relation to JP's comments. You are the only man in Wales who is standing against false doctrine, does JP expect you to stop doing this valuable work? I believe that the Lord endorses you 100%, and so do I by the way. I agree with you that pride is the issue here (Proverbs 16:18). Personal attacks and attempts to discredit those who have genuine questions is not the way to go. I have always believed that I have the gift of "discernment of spirits", but unfortunately it does not go down very well with the churches! I wonder why? I believe that you have the same or similar gifting Rob. Do not be discouraged.<br /><br />JP has just posted this on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81GR4H1sHdU<br /><br />Funnily enough JP posted an article of mine on his Moriel site about Revelation TV a year or so ago. There was no question about my blog being invalid then! <br /><br />God blessTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-49486167394396976992016-07-15T08:22:59.976-07:002016-07-15T08:22:59.976-07:00Hi Treena!
I've always held Jacob Prasch in v...Hi Treena!<br /><br />I've always held Jacob Prasch in very high regard, and have listened to many hours of his teaching. But I've had a niggling worry about him, which reading his comments here has given a sad substance to. My unease has been that his undoubted intellectual abilities and command of the original Biblical languages, coupled with his substantial first-hand experience of both Judaism and counterfeit Christianity, has resulted in a lamentable straying into the area of spiritual pride. Fact is, no-one has a monopoly of knowledge and understanding, and if we should ever think that our personal perception of spiritual matters is that much more superior to another Christian's perception, we become so much in danger of forsaking the gentle fruits of the Spirit and adopting an attitude of unbecoming arrogance with a haughty dismissal of anyone deemed to have a lesser understanding.<br /><br />I always marveled at how Solomon, with all his incredible God-given wisdom, could have ended up engaging in such abject folly as he did. I can only conclude that he came to believe that he was so wise that he simply could not be foolish; his strength became his weakness. I sincerely hope and pray that Jacob will check himself before he treads any further along such a similarly delusory and destructive path.<br /><br />Like you, of course, I'm only a blogger, the type of lowly person who he seems to think does not warrant the time of day, so I guess that even in the unlikely event that he should read this, he will dismiss it out of hand. I don't get at all why he's so determinedly alienating people who have a genuine desire to work for the Lord; does he not make very great use of the internet himself to put his own views and opinions across? I am offended for you, sister, and also myself feel offended by a man who I've had the greatest respect for; I'm greatly saddened and disturbed by his most ungracious responses.<br /><br />As it is written, "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Cor. 13:12) And this is every bit as true of Jacob Prasch as it is of us all. None of us will ever "know it all" in this life. Period. Pride needs to submit to humility; contempt needs to cede to grace; unworthy vessels that we are, we need to humbly help each other to healthily grow and bear fruit that is fitting for the Kingdom. The Remnant is small enough as it is; the last thing we want is a completely unwarranted civil war among ourselves!<br /><br />Best wishes in Him,<br />Rob.<br />Rob Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08010941912086816344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-30098461750633590682016-07-15T04:16:21.006-07:002016-07-15T04:16:21.006-07:00You know Anonymous, once someone starts going off ...You know Anonymous, once someone starts going off in one area, then it quickly spreads to other areas. First we have the Restrainer problem, and now the elusive seven year tribulation problem - and in the process dishonesty comes into play. JP is playing a very dangerous game I fear. Best to put it right with the Lord quickly JP before it progresses. God bless.Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-52912532072837834972016-07-15T04:06:38.370-07:002016-07-15T04:06:38.370-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-75083058474263130072016-07-15T02:00:16.212-07:002016-07-15T02:00:16.212-07:00I will try to respond biblically to JP's argum...I will try to respond biblically to JP's argument about a seven year tribulation. I am very aware that this could turn into a very nasty personal dispute which would be very harmful for everyone and a great victory for Satan.<br /><br />JP: "However in this same John chapter 16 in verses 20-22, Jesus speaks of His Second Coming as being proceeded by the Birth Pangs seen in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and as is illustrated in the vision of the woman in travail in Revelation chapter 12."<br /><br />Mark 13 confirms the sequence of events in Matthew 24 i.e.tribulation follows the birth pains.<br /><br />Revelation 12: The woman (Israel) will be divinely protected after the midweek abomination of desolation and during the subsequent reign of the Antichrist. (Revelation 12:16) AFTER THAT HAPPENS, the Antichrist turns his attention towards believers: "THEN the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea." (Revelation 12:17)<br /><br />Once again, no specific "tribulation" is mentioned prior to the mid point of the 70th week.Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-81824232233327112242016-07-15T01:30:28.082-07:002016-07-15T01:30:28.082-07:00A few thoughts.
Without exception EVERY Christian ...A few thoughts.<br />Without exception EVERY Christian believer is entitled to ask questions: And to KEEP on asking, KNOCK at the door until it opens! Be like the widow woman in Luke 18 who wearied the unjust judge!<br />Many believers disagree with much, there are often multiple interpretations on the same verses. It is very sad that some would appear to put themselves on a parapet to a point that whatever they teach cannot be questioned.<br />I have visited many blog sites over recent years and asked, questioned, and debated a great many biblical topics. And whatever love, knowledge or grace I now possess (or lack of it!) I believe is because of "blog sites like this" to quote JP/DI again!<br />I do hold them in "constructive regard"! Thank God for the "Blogosphere"-I like that word!<br /><br />"Iron sharpeneth iron" Proverbs 27.17.<br /><br />God bless.colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-24309930794778240912016-07-14T16:11:31.691-07:002016-07-14T16:11:31.691-07:00Thank you M'Kayla. I just read your recent pos...Thank you M'Kayla. I just read your recent post earlier tonight after someone sent me the link: An Encounter With a Madman..or two.. https://mkayla.wordpress.com/ <br /><br />I am grieved that you have been belittled and treated in such a disgraceful way.<br />1 Corinthians 13 comes to mind.<br /><br />God bless you my dear sister in Christ xTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-67902224062060568112016-07-14T15:44:39.087-07:002016-07-14T15:44:39.087-07:00My dear sister in Christ, you are not alone in Jac...My dear sister in Christ, you are not alone in Jacob's onslaughts. Yours seemed to come just after mine. He has obviously forgot the direction in scripture that teachers are supposed to be patient, that we are to love, to be longsuffering, etc. We should be able to discuss things without the belittling. Jacob has forgotten the masses who have prayed for him to be well. It is a shame and I will not bear up under his abuses, either. It is my hope to reach those who think they need to. <br /><br />Blessings and peace in our Lord and Savior. M'Kayla Kellyhttp://mkayla.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-72808583815862587672016-07-14T11:54:28.759-07:002016-07-14T11:54:28.759-07:00God bless you Larry. God bless you Larry. Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-87826822621611572552016-07-14T11:48:26.445-07:002016-07-14T11:48:26.445-07:00I guess the YouTube, TV, & Video form of Chris...I guess the YouTube, TV, & Video form of Christian media teaching/commentary 'over rides' the 'Blogesphere' media. ......... Sad to read such a parting shot from Jacob Prasch. But as the LORD Jesus commanded, I will obey. I forgive you JP. Try not to repeat it. Larry Marvinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-6742099506863215482016-07-14T02:33:45.163-07:002016-07-14T02:33:45.163-07:00The word thlipsis appears a total of 45 times in t...The word thlipsis appears a total of 45 times in the NT. <br /><br />A few examples of thlipsis: <br /><br />There will be tribulation (thlipsis) and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, (Romans 2:5-9)<br /><br />Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation (thlipsin), unless they repent of her works, (Revelation 2:22) <br /><br />…..since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction (thlipsin) those who afflict (thlibousin) you, (2 Thessalonians 1:6)<br /><br />(thlíbō is the root of thlipsin)<br /><br />When a woman is giving birth, she has sorrow because her hour has come, but when she has delivered the baby, she no longer remembers the anguish ( thlipseōs) or joy that a human being has been born into the world. (John 16:21)<br /><br />Clearly the context defines the meaning of thlipsis and it does not always apply to the persecution of believers. Beware of those who twist the scriptures to suite their own interpretation. The context of John 16:21 is not indicative of persecution as already explained in my previous comment. Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-42887403132405334072016-07-14T00:07:52.617-07:002016-07-14T00:07:52.617-07:00Thank you so much Colin. God blessThank you so much Colin. God blessTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-30949141561461833932016-07-13T11:52:26.030-07:002016-07-13T11:52:26.030-07:00Certainly your exposition of John 16.21-22 makes M...Certainly your exposition of John 16.21-22 makes MUCH more Scriptural sense than J.P's, in fact, I believe it agrees entirely with Scripture. The ultimate verse (33) in THAT chapter says "In the world ye shall have tribulation", so verses 21-22 were leading up to this. Tribulation, anguish, affliction, persecution has always been the Christian's lot (no doubt some more than others).<br /><br />This is what happens when you try to force Scripture to teach a false theology; as Darby did: Dispensational theologians have forever been (since about 1830) trying to force the Bible to teach their doctrine.<br /><br />I have tried my best to understand the mechanics of the pre-wrath/intraseal rapture, and have failed miserably. When you resort to twisting the Scriptures, you are NOT on safe ground. If you can't make YOUR theology fit with the Bible, then ABANDON it!<br /><br />I thank God in Christ for "blog sites like this".<br /><br />I remain a historic post-tribulational, pre-millennialist! <br /><br />God bless.colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-50255328709512538642016-07-13T10:01:52.488-07:002016-07-13T10:01:52.488-07:00Well Colin, after this I do not hold JP in any con...Well Colin, after this I do not hold JP in any constructive regard. I agree with all your points. God blessTreena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-64529333900139228082016-07-13T09:08:13.920-07:002016-07-13T09:08:13.920-07:00I am somewhat staggered by Jacob saying "I do...I am somewhat staggered by Jacob saying "I do not hold blog sites like this in any constructive regard". Why ever not? That is Roman Catholic thinking as Spurgeon would have said! Are not the little people allowed to discuss the theology of God's written word? The popes kept the Bible from the common people in case they would misuse it!<br />Granted; there is much rubbish being pedalled on "blog sites like this", but so is there much rubbish being taught in the churches!<br /><br />But, lets get down to the subject matter. It has always (and still is) been my understanding that THE tribulation, the great tribulation, time of Jacob's trouble is a period of three and one half years, 1260 days or times, time, and half a time, 42 months. If the first 42 months of Daniel's 70th week was part of the great tribulation that the Bible teaches, why then does Paul say "For when they are saying peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them..." 1 Thess 5.3/Luke 21.34? The Antichrist shows his true colours "in the midst of the week" Daniel 9.27. At this point the two witnesses shall "prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days" Rev 11.3, the same period of 42 months that Antichrist will be doing his worst in Rev 13.5. At this time Michael will "stand up" for Israel, Dan 12.1.<br /><br />It would appear to me that the Bible teaches that the first three and a half years of Daniel's 70th week is a period of relative calm and peace! and not tribulation?<br /><br />God's people have ALWAYS suffered tribulation/affliction, in the world, the Saviour said they would, "In the world ye shall have tribulation" John 16.33.<br /><br />There is an on-going 'general tribulation', but the Bible in my humble opinion teaches that THE great tribulation specifically is AFTER "the midst of the week".<br /><br />Can people be convicted of sin, wrath and the judgment by hearing the "everlasting gospel", without the power of the Holy Spirit?<br /><br />I believe not! Simple soul that I am.<br /><br />God bless. <br />colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132820921599851331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4103925900569325548.post-40180404362842063662016-07-13T08:59:38.866-07:002016-07-13T08:59:38.866-07:00You are much more dangerous than I originally thou...You are much more dangerous than I originally thought Jacob Prasch! I always believed your heart to be right, but this scripture twisting makes me very suspicious. <br /><br />The PRIMARY MEANING of John 16 is the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the birth of the church. The disciples would "weep and lament" - they would be "sorrowful", but their sorrow would turn to joy (verse 20). ".....you have sorrow now, but I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you" (22) Jesus refers to his post-resurrection appearances and the permanent presence of the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, as a result of his departure (cf. 14:17). The disciples DID NOT experience persecution during the time that they were weeping/lamenting/sorrowful. If THE PRIMARY MEANING does not speak of tribulation, why should any SECONDARY MEANING? Most translators have "anguish" (THELIPSIS v21)and not tribulation or persecution. If you really want to insist upon a seven year tribulation along with the pre-tribbers, then go right ahead - who am I to stop you? How does any of this prove that the Holy Spirit is the restrainer by the way? Even your own people at Moriel are unable to explain this convoluted teaching of yours.<br /><br />You say that this is your final response... well I sincerely hope so. In any event I would not publish anything so insulting towards me again. The only reason I shall leave it up is so that people will see your behaviour as a reviler for themselves (1 Corinthains 5:11). You have written off and probably alienated many people with genuine ministries who write blogs. I am sure that I do not seek your approval for doing something that I believe the Lord has led me to do! Treena Gisbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16783721039030779975noreply@blogger.com