In the aftermath of the Brexit vote 11th September 2016
http://prophecytoday.uk/comment/editorial/item/496-a-prophetic-word-to-britain.html
David Noakes is known in certain circles as a "prophetic voice" in the UK. His first person "Thus saith the Lord" prophecies are accepted by a number of Christians in the UK. Despite all outward appearances of sincerity and truth, the fly in the ointment is that Noakes has his fingers in many ecumenical pies. I recently demonstrated this in my previous article condemning Jacob Prasch's (Moriel Ministries) irresponsible endorsement of Noakes as a valid prophetic voice.{1} Prasch's dubious endorsement of Noakes, has, I believe, misled a number of Christians into receiving Noakes "ministry" and "words of prophecy" as genuine. I would argue that this is not at all the case for reasons which are very obvious.
About David Noakes
The significant factor in David Noakes "ministry" appears to be that he and Clifford Hill (Issachar Ministries) have been friends and close associates for more than 30 years. According to saltshakers.com{2} Noakes practised as a solicitor until 1975 when he claims that he was called into "full time ministry". From 1985 until 1991 he worked with Clifford Hill and became the leader of Prophetic Word Ministries (PWM) where he subsequently became a Trustee. Noakes was a visiting teacher for Ellel Ministries for a number of years. He is a Trustee, and was previously Chairman of the Board of Hatikvah Film Trust, whose stated objective is: ".....to foster an understanding in the Church of the Hebraic roots of the Christian faith as well as the place of the nation of Israel and the Jewish people, from both a Biblical and historical perspective, in the purposes of God. A related objective is to counter anti-Semitism.produce film documentaries designed to make known Biblical truth concerning the Jewish people and the Land of Israel."{3}
Issachar Ministries, Prophetic Word Ministries (PWM), CandM Ministries, the Centre for Contemporary Ministry (CMM) and Harvest Vision are quite a complex web of inter-connected organisations based at Moggerhanger Hall in Bedfordshire which is ecumenical. Noakes is an advisor to Issachar Ministries which previously operated under the umbrella of PWM and he was a director of Harvest Vision until 30th November 2000. Miguel Hayworth of UK Apologetics Library has exposed the ecumenical connections of Hill and Noakes in detail and he warns: " .....we need to bring this to light put into question the ministry of Clifford Hill and David Noakes and not accept at face value of CCM, ISSACHAR Ministries, Moggerhanger House, etc."{4}
Another of Clifford Hill's "friends" is former Archbishop and Druid, Rowan Williams.
 |
| Clifford Hill and his wife with former Archbishop and Druid Rowan Williams |
The Confusion of Clifford Hill
Clifford Hill was the founding editor and is currently Editor in Chief of the Christian magazine Prophecy Today. In common with Noakes, Hill also claims to be a "prophetic voice" in the UK.{5}
On the one hand Hill warns about the state of the nation etc. and on the other, he holds hands with apostates! He seems to be quite adept at vacillating between two opinions and giving "yes and no" responses (James 1:8 cf. 1 Corinthians 14:8). He was originally wary of the so called "Toronto Blessing", and then for some inexplicable reason he attended the "Waves of the Spirit" conference held in the UK, 1996, and enthused over John Arnott (Toronto Airport Church). Of course, in doing so he put his seal of approval on the "Toronto Blessing" itself.
Clifford Hill: "Bob Jones claims to have special powers of 'divination' which operate through his fingers and other senses...another occult experience. He told Hill to stand and to raise both hands. Remarkably, Hill did as he was told! Jones then put his fingers against Hill's fingers, and told him that he would feel a 'transmission of energy'. Hill was then to tell Jones which finger was shaking. Hill said 'I, meanwhile, was praying for the whole armour of God to protect me.'" {6}
Excerpts from Breaking The Mould by Clifford Hill: Prophecy Today Nov/Dec 1997 can be found on the link below.{7}
Issachar Comments Papers
Expounding biblical concepts on the world scene today
SAVING THE CHURCH
Francis and Justin
"Great expectations surround the appointment of new leaders to the two largest Christian churches. A new Pope to lead the worldwide Roman Catholic Church and a new Archbishop of Canterbury to lead the worldwide Anglican Communion is giving hope to millions of Christians that this may be a turning point in history. For half a century the churches have been in decline throughout the Western nations, battling against the onslaught of secularism from outside and the growth of corrupting forces from inside." {8}
Clifford Hill is misguided and confused if he genuinely thinks that anything good can possibly come out of Roman Catholicism or the backslidden CofE. Rome teaches a different gospel based on sacraments and not on faith alone. (Galatians 1:6). God calls his people OUT of false churches and apostate situations. What communion hath light with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:15-16; Revelation 18:4). Nothing good will come out of Rome or her harlot daughters (MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH). (Revelation 17:16).
Word of Prophecy Received by David Noakes September 2016
Clifford Hill and David Noakes jointly bring a message
Noakes' "prophecy" and Hill's associated message can be viewed on the link at the beginning of this post.
As with his previous "prophecies", this latest "word" from Noakes is innocuous. I would expect to hear something like this from a fortune teller who says what their client wants to hear. Suspiciously, the prophecy gives what I believe is false hope to Britain. Considering the backslidden state of the churches here in the UK, I do not believe that a positive message of hope is at all appropriate! Noakes also throws in the often repeated revival mantra for good measure.
Noakes: ".....You in Britain are like the good figs who were taken into exile before judgment fell (Jeremiah 24).
There will be great darkness and upheaval in the European institution; but I have done this in your nation at this time in order to preserve you.
Therefore, look up and be greatly encouraged, because out of this time of turmoil and upheaval will come great opportunity. Those of you who are committed to me I will uphold, I will protect, and I will send upon you a new outpouring of My Spirit, that you may speak My word in Spirit and in Truth; and My Spirit will bear witness to it and it shall bring forth fruit.
I do not say that your whole nation will turn to Me, for that will not be the case; but beloved, I will bring multitudes into a valley of decision and many will turn to Me, for despite the apostasy which has gripped the nation, I have not failed to love the nation of Britain, and in My grace and mercy, I will continue to pour My love upon you, even though you have angered Me greatly.
Take heart, be encouraged and look up. I will walk with you through the time of turmoil and upheaval....."
Are "good figs" ecumenical? (Jeremiah 24:1-10). The churches in Britain are critically backslidden. Britain has no more reason than Europe to be specially "preserved" by the Lord.
They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace. (Jeremiah 8:11) The "wound of my people" is of course ecumenism - a festering sore that cannot be healed, except through repentance. Hill and Noakes, rather than warning about ecumenism, are at the very epicenter of it! There will be no revival unless the church turns to the teachings (doctrine) of Jesus Christ. The ecumenical movement operates through the spirit of Antichrist and is diametrically opposed to Jesus' teachings!
The false prophet Hananiah prophesied "peace" falsely. There are very dark days ahead for the whole world, including Britain and her ecumenical apostates.
Jeremiah the prophet:
Amen! May the Lord do so; may the Lord make the words that you have prophesied come true, and bring back to this place from Babylon the vessels of the house of the Lord, and all the exiles. Yet hear now this word that I speak in your hearing and in the hearing of all the people. The prophets who preceded you and me from ancient times prophesied war, famine, and pestilence against many countries and great kingdoms. As for the prophet who prophesies peace, when the word of that prophet comes to pass, then it will be known that the Lord has truly sent the prophet. (Jeremiah 28:6-9)
Perhaps the response to Noakes latest "prophetic word" should go pretty much along the same lines as Jeremiah's response to Hananiah:
Amen! May the Lord do so; may the Lord make the words that you have prophesied come true,
{{and may the Lord send upon Britain a new outpouring of His Spirit and bring multitudes into a valley of decision - may many people turn to Him..... }}
The prophets who preceded you and me from ancient times prophesied war, famine, and pestilence against many countries and great kingdoms. As for the prophet who prophesies peace, when the word of that prophet comes to pass, then it will be known that the Lord has truly sent the prophet.
Being a false prophet is a risky business:
Then the prophet Hananiah took the yoke-bars from the neck of Jeremiah the prophet and broke them. And Hananiah spoke in the presence of all the people, saying, “Thus says the Lord: Even so will I break the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon from the neck of all the nations within two years.” But Jeremiah the prophet went his way.
(4) http://ukapologeticslibrary.net/ecumenists-clifford-hill-david-noakes-moggerhanger-park/
{5} http://www.prophecytoday.uk/comment/editorial.html
{6} http://www.christiandoctrine.net/doctrine/articles/article_00093_the_kansas_city_prophets_web.htm
{7}http://bibleman.fr.yuku.com/topic/112/Clifford-Hill-Update-Vinyard-issues#.V8Qfrq1y7IU
{8} http://www.issacharministries.co.uk/images/april2013.pdf
Further Links
http://prophecytoday.uk/study/prophetic-insights/item/380-a-prophecy-given-by-david-noakes,-november-2015.html
http://www.banner.org.uk/news/old%20dox/noakes.html
https://www.moriel.org/component/k2/item/2629-prophecy-from-david-noakes.html
David Noakes/CCM connection with ecumenical Hope Together:
http://ukapologeticslibrary.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/ccmissicar-1.jpg
http://www.hopetogether.org.uk/Articles/269548/HOPE_appoints_Jesus.aspx
http://www.hopetogether.org.uk/Articles/207937/Pastor_Yemi_Adedeji.aspx
http://www.torchtrust.org/downloads/autoarchive/Christian%20Today%20Digest%20-%20Spring%202009.html
http://www.cte.org.uk/Groups/261700/Home/Resources/Pentecostal_and_Multicultural/Papers/Papers.aspx
http://www.cte.org.uk/Groups/234775/Home/Contacts/Theological_Training/Theological_Training.aspx
http://www.moggerhangerpark.com/pg/the-story
https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/2002291/princess-elizabeth-is-invested-as-honorary-ovate-of-the-gorsedd-of-the-bards-of
http://www.druidry.org/druid-way/what-druidry/what-druidism/what-ovate
http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/gods-plan-of-salvation-through-jesus.html
http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/a-new-outreach-connecting-outside-camp.html
Clifford Hill was the founding editor and is currently Editor in Chief of the Christian magazine Prophecy Today. In common with Noakes, Hill also claims to be a "prophetic voice" in the UK.{5}
On the one hand Hill warns about the state of the nation etc. and on the other, he holds hands with apostates! He seems to be quite adept at vacillating between two opinions and giving "yes and no" responses (James 1:8 cf. 1 Corinthians 14:8). He was originally wary of the so called "Toronto Blessing", and then for some inexplicable reason he attended the "Waves of the Spirit" conference held in the UK, 1996, and enthused over John Arnott (Toronto Airport Church). Of course, in doing so he put his seal of approval on the "Toronto Blessing" itself.
Clifford Hill: "Bob Jones claims to have special powers of 'divination' which operate through his fingers and other senses...another occult experience. He told Hill to stand and to raise both hands. Remarkably, Hill did as he was told! Jones then put his fingers against Hill's fingers, and told him that he would feel a 'transmission of energy'. Hill was then to tell Jones which finger was shaking. Hill said 'I, meanwhile, was praying for the whole armour of God to protect me.'" {6}
Excerpts from Breaking The Mould by Clifford Hill: Prophecy Today Nov/Dec 1997 can be found on the link below.{7}
Issachar Comments Papers
Expounding biblical concepts on the world scene today
SAVING THE CHURCH
Francis and Justin
"Great expectations surround the appointment of new leaders to the two largest Christian churches. A new Pope to lead the worldwide Roman Catholic Church and a new Archbishop of Canterbury to lead the worldwide Anglican Communion is giving hope to millions of Christians that this may be a turning point in history. For half a century the churches have been in decline throughout the Western nations, battling against the onslaught of secularism from outside and the growth of corrupting forces from inside." {8}
Clifford Hill is misguided and confused if he genuinely thinks that anything good can possibly come out of Roman Catholicism or the backslidden CofE. Rome teaches a different gospel based on sacraments and not on faith alone. (Galatians 1:6). God calls his people OUT of false churches and apostate situations. What communion hath light with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:15-16; Revelation 18:4). Nothing good will come out of Rome or her harlot daughters (MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH). (Revelation 17:16).
Word of Prophecy Received by David Noakes September 2016
Clifford Hill and David Noakes jointly bring a message
Noakes' "prophecy" and Hill's associated message can be viewed on the link at the beginning of this post.
As with his previous "prophecies", this latest "word" from Noakes is innocuous. I would expect to hear something like this from a fortune teller who says what their client wants to hear. Suspiciously, the prophecy gives what I believe is false hope to Britain. Considering the backslidden state of the churches here in the UK, I do not believe that a positive message of hope is at all appropriate! Noakes also throws in the often repeated revival mantra for good measure.
Noakes: ".....You in Britain are like the good figs who were taken into exile before judgment fell (Jeremiah 24).
There will be great darkness and upheaval in the European institution; but I have done this in your nation at this time in order to preserve you.
Therefore, look up and be greatly encouraged, because out of this time of turmoil and upheaval will come great opportunity. Those of you who are committed to me I will uphold, I will protect, and I will send upon you a new outpouring of My Spirit, that you may speak My word in Spirit and in Truth; and My Spirit will bear witness to it and it shall bring forth fruit.
I do not say that your whole nation will turn to Me, for that will not be the case; but beloved, I will bring multitudes into a valley of decision and many will turn to Me, for despite the apostasy which has gripped the nation, I have not failed to love the nation of Britain, and in My grace and mercy, I will continue to pour My love upon you, even though you have angered Me greatly.
Take heart, be encouraged and look up. I will walk with you through the time of turmoil and upheaval....."
Are "good figs" ecumenical? (Jeremiah 24:1-10). The churches in Britain are critically backslidden. Britain has no more reason than Europe to be specially "preserved" by the Lord.
They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace. (Jeremiah 8:11) The "wound of my people" is of course ecumenism - a festering sore that cannot be healed, except through repentance. Hill and Noakes, rather than warning about ecumenism, are at the very epicenter of it! There will be no revival unless the church turns to the teachings (doctrine) of Jesus Christ. The ecumenical movement operates through the spirit of Antichrist and is diametrically opposed to Jesus' teachings!
The false prophet Hananiah prophesied "peace" falsely. There are very dark days ahead for the whole world, including Britain and her ecumenical apostates.
Jeremiah the prophet:
Amen! May the Lord do so; may the Lord make the words that you have prophesied come true, and bring back to this place from Babylon the vessels of the house of the Lord, and all the exiles. Yet hear now this word that I speak in your hearing and in the hearing of all the people. The prophets who preceded you and me from ancient times prophesied war, famine, and pestilence against many countries and great kingdoms. As for the prophet who prophesies peace, when the word of that prophet comes to pass, then it will be known that the Lord has truly sent the prophet. (Jeremiah 28:6-9)
Perhaps the response to Noakes latest "prophetic word" should go pretty much along the same lines as Jeremiah's response to Hananiah:
Amen! May the Lord do so; may the Lord make the words that you have prophesied come true,
{{and may the Lord send upon Britain a new outpouring of His Spirit and bring multitudes into a valley of decision - may many people turn to Him..... }}
The prophets who preceded you and me from ancient times prophesied war, famine, and pestilence against many countries and great kingdoms. As for the prophet who prophesies peace, when the word of that prophet comes to pass, then it will be known that the Lord has truly sent the prophet.
Being a false prophet is a risky business:
Then the prophet Hananiah took the yoke-bars from the neck of Jeremiah the prophet and broke them. And Hananiah spoke in the presence of all the people, saying, “Thus says the Lord: Even so will I break the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon from the neck of all the nations within two years.” But Jeremiah the prophet went his way.
Sometime after the prophet Hananiah had broken the yoke-bars from off the neck of Jeremiah the prophet, the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: “Go, tell Hananiah, ‘Thus says the Lord: You have broken wooden bars, but you have made in their place bars of iron. For thus says the Lord
of hosts, the God of Israel: I have put upon the neck of all these
nations an iron yoke to serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and they
shall serve him, for I have given to him even the beasts of the field.’”And Jeremiah the prophet said to the prophet Hananiah, “Listen, Hananiah, the Lord has not sent you, and you have made this people trust in a lie. Therefore thus says the Lord:
‘Behold, I will remove you from the face of the earth. This year you
shall die, because you have uttered rebellion against the Lord.’”
In that same year, in the seventh month, the prophet Hananiah died. (Jeremiah 28:10-17)
Nebuchadnezzar is of course a type of the Antichrist to come. What is presently taking place in the churches is a prelude to full blown apostasia (falling away). God's Word has been all but abandoned in favour of a false "unity" which embraces other religions. The churches are being set up for the disastrous strong delusion of the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:11).
God's Condemnation of Lying Prophets: Jeremiah 23:10-32
10For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.
God's Condemnation of Lying Prophets: Jeremiah 23:10-32
10For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right.
11For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.
12Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.
13And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
14I
have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they
commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of
evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of
them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.
15Therefore
thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will
feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from
the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.
16Thus
saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets
that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their
own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.
17They
say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have
peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of
his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
18For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
19Behold,
a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous
whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
20The
anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he
have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall
consider it perfectly.
21I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22But
if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my
words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from
the evil of their doings.
23Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?
24Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
25I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
26How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
27Which
think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they
tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name
for Baal.
28The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.
29Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
30Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
31Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
32Behold, I am
against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell
them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness;
yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit
this people at all, saith the LORD.
False prophet Clifford Hill prophesied "revival" in 2008 at the Excel Centre in London: "There will be a move of God within four years, by the time the Olympics come to London."
{1} http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/jacob-prasch-moriel-ministries-further.html
{2} http://saltshakers.com/main/kesherweb/david-noakes
{3} http://www.hatikvahfilms.com/False prophet Clifford Hill prophesied "revival" in 2008 at the Excel Centre in London: "There will be a move of God within four years, by the time the Olympics come to London."
{1} http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/jacob-prasch-moriel-ministries-further.html
{2} http://saltshakers.com/main/kesherweb/david-noakes
(4) http://ukapologeticslibrary.net/ecumenists-clifford-hill-david-noakes-moggerhanger-park/
{5} http://www.prophecytoday.uk/comment/editorial.html
{6} http://www.christiandoctrine.net/doctrine/articles/article_00093_the_kansas_city_prophets_web.htm
{7}http://bibleman.fr.yuku.com/topic/112/Clifford-Hill-Update-Vinyard-issues#.V8Qfrq1y7IU
{8} http://www.issacharministries.co.uk/images/april2013.pdf
Further Links
http://prophecytoday.uk/study/prophetic-insights/item/380-a-prophecy-given-by-david-noakes,-november-2015.html
http://www.banner.org.uk/news/old%20dox/noakes.html
https://www.moriel.org/component/k2/item/2629-prophecy-from-david-noakes.html
David Noakes/CCM connection with ecumenical Hope Together:
http://ukapologeticslibrary.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/ccmissicar-1.jpg
http://www.hopetogether.org.uk/Articles/269548/HOPE_appoints_Jesus.aspx
http://www.hopetogether.org.uk/Articles/207937/Pastor_Yemi_Adedeji.aspx
King Nebuchadnezzar a "type" of Antichrist - to come:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=30619&forum=36http://www.torchtrust.org/downloads/autoarchive/Christian%20Today%20Digest%20-%20Spring%202009.html
http://www.cte.org.uk/Groups/261700/Home/Resources/Pentecostal_and_Multicultural/Papers/Papers.aspx
http://www.cte.org.uk/Groups/234775/Home/Contacts/Theological_Training/Theological_Training.aspx
http://www.moggerhangerpark.com/pg/the-story
https://www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/2002291/princess-elizabeth-is-invested-as-honorary-ovate-of-the-gorsedd-of-the-bards-of
http://www.druidry.org/druid-way/what-druidry/what-druidism/what-ovate
http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/gods-plan-of-salvation-through-jesus.html
http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/a-new-outreach-connecting-outside-camp.html
An excellent article; highlighting in particular the false prophesyings of David Noakes, with regard to ecumenism (which will lead us all to Rome!). Jacob Prasch often rails against the "lunatic fringe" (as he calls it) of Pentecostal Charismania, yet is so very, very blinded to it himself! Yes Prasch is blinded by the Pentecostal error which began in Azusa Street in 1907.
ReplyDeleteTo endorse David Noakes as a "valid prophetic voice" in the first Person when we have God's word COMPLETED-in our hands as it were-the Holy Bible, is utter madness! Prasch so often attacks "Calvinist cessationism, so-called, yet if only he could come to his senses and believe what the writer to the Hebrews says regarding God's word; "HATH in these last days SPOKEN unto us by His Son..." Heb 1.2. he would KNOW that there will be NO further revelation from Almighty God! As Paul says in 2 Timothy 3.16; "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God..." Are Noakes's ramblings "Scripture"? Apparently so, according to Jacob Prasch!
We have ALL we need in the Bible to lead and to teach us. We have NO need of new extra biblical revelation! We came OUT of the "Dark ages"! If we cannot stand on God's word as it is written, WHO would we know to trust and to listen/guide us next???
God bless you.
I do agree that we should never go beyond what is written Colin(1 Corinthians 4:6). "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1.
ReplyDelete"Despise not prophesyings." (1 Thessalonians 5:20)
I do believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but at the same time we should NEVER accept anything that goes beyond the scriptures. Noakes and Hill CANNOT be "prophets" due to their ecumenical connections and beliefs. Noakes' "ramblings" are not scripturally based and they bring false hope. They are more akin to clairvoyance in my view.
Hill said that there would be a "revival" i.e. a mighty move of God's Spirit at the Excel Centre in London in 2008 - it did not happen!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEZF60UvZ6E
We should not trust these men!
God bless.
Some may ask, "then whose prophesyings DO we listen to?"
ReplyDeleteOn 1 Thess 5.20, Matthew Henry says,
By PROPHESYINGS here we are to understand the preaching of the word, the interpreting and applying of the scriptures; and this we must not despise, but should prize and value, because it is the ordinance of God, appointed of him for our furtherance and increase in knowledge and grace, in holiness and comfort. We must not despise preaching, though it be plain, and not with enticing words of men's wisdom, and though we be told no more than what we knew before. It is useful, and many times needful, to have our minds stirred up, our affections and resolutions exited, to those things that we knew before to be our interest and our duty.
(In the original, PROPHESYINGS is in italics).
Now, Matthew Henry died in 1714 and his understanding of prophecy was certainly wanting, however, I most certainly agree with his commentary on 1 Thess 5.20.
As premillennial believers we both know that things are going to get a whole lot worse before the Lord destroys the anti-Christian system and the "man of sin" himself by "the brightness of His coming" 2 Thess 2.8.
And you have certainly tried the "spirits" of the men above!
Many of the things that Noakes (and his ilk) says sound very plausible, but if his followers BELIEVE God is speaking through his mouth; they will soon be deceived into believing any hocus-pocus that he utters! Where then?
God bless you.
I may be wrong Colin, but I have always understood "prophesying" as something like a "word of knowledge" or a future prediction (1 Corinthians 12:8; 14:29). Teaching is mentioned as a separate gift? (Romans 12:7) It has to be said that it is difficult to "test" a prediction such as Noakes', unless of course it comes to pass or not as the case may be. Of course the fact that he is ecumenical is enough information to reject both his teaching and his prophecies! I was exposed to extreme charismania and false prophecies in my early days as a Christian. I can understand those who are cessationist, but I cannot go that far myself. God bless.
ReplyDeleteThis is where "the rubber hits the road" as it were!
ReplyDelete1 Corinthians was written circa AD 54 and there were of course MANY prophets/prophetesses around in the NT era; Agabus (he was but "one of them"! Acts 11.28), Anna, John the Baptist, Barnabas, Simeon, Judas, Silas etc. Prophets were not exclusive to the OT period (though there was the "silent period" since the last prophet Malachi, some 400 years before the Lord's First Advent.
Of course if we misinterpret the scriptures (as you have noted that false prophets indeed do) then false prophets will arise. Presumptuous men and women will speak apart from Peter's very powerful admonition in 2 Peter 1.19. Here Peter is telling us about "the more sure word of prophecy...until the day dawn" that we have ALONE in Christ! Read the whole chapter. Jesus Christ is THE "Blessed Hope". The "day" he speaks of is the coming millennial DAY.
The Saviour Himself in the gospels warned us about the rise of false prophets; Matthew 7.15, 24.11, 24.24, Mark 13.22. Where did He ever tell us to listen to a coming future 'prophet'? You WILL search His word in vain for this!
Of the future false prophets that have, and will come into the world; 2 Peter 2.2 says in no uncertain terms that "many shall follow their pernicious ways" read the context. These "false prophets" have always been with us, as 1 John 4.1 confirms.
God bless you.
A good article by Mike Oppenheimer: http://letusreason.org/Doct77.htm
ReplyDeleteTeachers and prophets are used synonymously in 1 Corinthians 14:6, and yet these two gifts are described separately in Romans 12:7. I respect anyone who sees prophecy or any of the gifts of the Spirit differently. I would not reject the gift of prophecy because of the abundance of false prophets, but at the same time I think that we need to be very cautious. Where I am firm is that the cannon of scripture is complete - no-one can supersede the Word of God as some claim to do. Any such "new" revelations take us away from the gospel of Jesus Christ onto shifting sands (Matthew 7:24-27). God bless.
It is good that Mr Oppenheimer is gracious toward those that are opposed to his beliefs. But again, WHERE (in italics!) are these present day God sent prophets? How would we know they were true prophets sent by God? (Only by comparing His written word with what these 'prophets' say? but, if we need to do that, why do we need the 'prophet' in the first place?-a big contradiction!). Oppenheimer opposes himself because, on the one hand he acknowledges "that the cannon of scripture is complete", yet leaves the door open to soothsayers of the present day! His dilemma is irreconcilable, to me, at least!
ReplyDeleteIf I have read my Bible aright, is it NOT until Revelation 11 is upon us that we will see God's appointed prophets come on to the world scene in the present dispensation?
I did have a brief look on "Let us reason", and I note Oppenheimer's views/teachings on prophecy have been somewhat infected by J.N.Darby & Co?
God bless you.
On a national or global level I believe you are correct Colin. There are no "Prophets" like Jeremiah Daniel etc. these days. On certain RARE occasions the Lord has revealed things to me for specific situations. I was unfortunate enough to sit through part of a service of playing a very silly game at TLC during one of their services some years ago and I believe that I definitely got a word from the Lord... it was not "a word" actually, it was THE WORD: Ecclesiastes 3 "For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven." I actually walked out of that service.. it was the last straw and I never returned to TLC again. Ecclesiastes 3 kept coming back to me and I eventually emailed it to David Hind. I wrote "There is a time and a place for playing games, but a church service is not one of those times.." I get THE WORD coming to me all the time in my writing - in fact I see it as a confirmation. On one occasion I saw a cactus (of all things) and it had boiling water poured over it. It looked exactly the same for a couple of days before it died. I can't be 100% sure, but I believe that this was the Holy Spirit showing me that something may be destroyed, but that it can continue to look alive and good for a period of time.. the church? Certainly if I have THE WORD coming to me I believe that it is the Holy Spirit.. On other occasions I cannot be 100% sure and I would be cautious. God bless.
ReplyDeleteAs ever we must check out everything with "what is written". When any church leader tells his followers something diametrically opposed to God's word, it is up to the individual to be as the Berean's were in Acts 17. But of-course if the pastor/teacher/prophet/apostle (they call themselves all these names!) believes and teaches on-going revelation so called, and has a strong personality and says something like "God TOLD me such and such", then we do have a problem! One of us is a liar! How could you sit under such an one's authority?
ReplyDeleteCertainly, IF you are daily in God's word, I don't doubt that the Holy Spirit WILL show you the truth, I wouldn't say otherwise! Because by being in His word the Spirit of God will convict you whether or not what you are listening to agrees with "what is written"! And in a way only He can do! Who am I to qualify exactly how the Holy Spirit operates? But, sadly, many in today's congregations "...bear with him" 2 Corinthians 11.4? From what you have just said, the whole of this verse might well apply to David Hinds?
God bless you.
Thank God we agree then Colin. 2 Corinthians 11:4 definitely applies to Trinity Life Church. Like so many false leaders, they seem to carry on regardless of the scriptures. I remember the former pastor of TLC (Brian Niblock) saying that he would not receive a negative prophetic word.. he said that the Lord only brings encouragement and positive words - what folly! He did not take into account that ALL the prophets in the OT were "negative" for good reasons - God wanted Israel to repent! I am sure that Noakes, Hill and their ilk will have more "prophetic words" to tickle itching ears, but what will become of them?
ReplyDelete"Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:" (Isaiah 30:10)
"The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?" Jeremiah 5:31
God bless.
I thought I would post this little extract, verbatim from a Vocal Protestant magazine. It is from an exposition on Jehoshaphat's unholy alliance with the wicked king Ahab-Jezebel's husband! It is very pertinent to this post.
ReplyDeleteEcumenicity's silly reasoning persists: "Never mind theology, it divides. It doesn't matter what a man believes, providing he claims to be a Christian. Love is what matters. After all, we evangelicals have more in common with Roman Catholics and liberal Nonconformists, than with those of other religions and unbelievers in general. Let all 'Christians' therefore unite!" Jehoshaphat, having tumbled from the 'high ground', would have fitted neatly into the modern ecumenical movement. However, the pivot of biblical truth having been removed, it is not long before Christ Himself is shown the door (John 14.6), 'Love' seeking to usurp His throne. God is love, but in today's society Love has become god. (1 John 4.8) Sin has driven them mad ('ecumania'!): "Come to think of it, why not link arms with ALL religions, in a multi-faith show of 'brotherly love' as a witness to those of no faith at all?" Thus "the Lord of heaven and earth" (Matthew 11.25), who does not tolerate rivals (Isaiah 42.8), is blasphemed; Christ, the 'beloved Son' (Matthew 17.5), insulted as merely 'one-among equals', and biblical history forgotten. (1 Kings 11:1-11)
Christians are commanded by their Lord to "beware" of these reprobates. "Ravening wolves" He calls them-Matthew 7.15, the apostle Paul "grievous wolves"-Acts 20.29. Yet, sadly despite the warnings they are often deceived. The main reason, I believe why this is so is because of a misguided 'loving tolerance' and do not wish to think ill of anyone, and therefore refuse to obey the apostolic injunction to "try the spirits" 1 John 4.1.
God bless.
LOVE minus TRUTH is not real LOVE Colin, I quite agree with you. 2 John 1-3 "And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments." Jesus said: "I am the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE" John 14:6. What they call "love" is darkness and deception:
ReplyDelete"This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:5-7
God bless you.