ANDY WOODS "CORRECTION" OF JOHN RICH + TUCKER CARLSON: TAKEDOWN OF PRETRIB RAPTURE

Tucker Carlson and John Rich Tackle the Pre-Trib Rapture! (youtube.com)

Olivier Melnick and Andy Woods have attempted but ultimately failed to prop up the "Holy Grail" of pretribulationalism during their "correction" of John Rich following his recent interview with Tucker Carlson: John Rich: Donald Trump, the Darkness of Eminem’s New Album, and the Song Inspired by God (youtube.com) 

Rich comes from a Christian background and is a country singer. His interview with Carlson came on the back of the success of his song "Revelation", inspired by the prophecies of John the Revelator about the future and the return of Jesus Christ.1 The interview has rattled the pretrib rapture camp and provoked Andy Woods, Olivier Melnick, Lee Brainard, and others to react negatively.2  

Woods: (regarding Tucker Carlson) "..but you start to see a pattern. First you see Munther Isaac.. then a month or two later you see this guy who is trying to trash the pretrib rapture.. Either he or his producer or whoever is intentionally giving platforms to people that are trying to tear down the Zionist dispensational understanding.." Melnick and Woods are expecting too much of Tucker Carlson. As far as I am aware, Carlson is not a Christian, although he is evidently reading the scriptures and exploring different views. We cannot reasonably expect non-Christians to have a theologically sound view of Romans 9. (1 Corinthians 9:12).

The Scofield Bible 

Andy Woods proceeded to "rectify" John Rich's claim that the Scofield Bible was the first study Bible including study notes ever made. Technically Woods is right, but he is splitting hairs. The first full edition of the Geneva Bible (1575) predates the first Scofield Reference Bible (1909) by more than three hundred years. However, the Scofield Reference Bible is generally considered to be innovative. It is described by Got Questions as "..the first of its kind—an annotated Bible designed to aid the reader in understanding the text."3 Wikipedia: "The Scofield Bible had several innovative features. Most important, it printed what amounted to a commentary on the biblical text alongside the Bible instead of in a separate volume, the first to do so in English since the Geneva Bible (1560)."4  I think we can overlook John Rich's peccadillo since the Geneva Bible with its Calvinist slant was controversial and was not well received in the UK, especially by King James, who considered the notes to be subversive due to their political undertones. In contrast, the Scofield Bible was widely accepted and has had a huge impact on modern evangelicalism.

John Nelson Darby

Woods "John Darby was very godly man and he was I believe part of the Plymouth Brethren Movement he started churches really all over the place.. he was a top notch scholar.."  (15:18 mark)  I have no argument with those who assert Darby's intelligence; however his character is an altogether different matter! Much has been written about Darby from varying perspectives, but it is irrefutable that Darby was the cause of much consternation by Bible scholars and leaders of his time and was considered arrogant and self-willed. 

Brethren leaders George Müller, Anthony Groves, and Benjamin Newton suffered intensely at the hands of Darby, who would broker no opposition to his sectarian views. Darby would not even tolerate anyone who wished to remain neutral. Darby's response to ANY opposition was to simply annihilate it. Those who disagreed with him were excommunicated. Why? - Because according to Darby, the Lord had personally revealed dispensational hermeneutics to him directly. In his own eyes, this made him 'right' and gave him liberty to butcher the body of Christ. It is difficult to argue against anyone with such obvious forcefulness, intelligence and powers of intimidation.5 

Charles Spurgeon: "Mr. Darby is, to all intents and purposes a thorough Pope, though under a Protestant name. He will never admit that he is in error; and therefore very naturally declines to argue with those who controvert the soundness of his views. How, indeed, could it be otherwise? If Mr. Darby holds, which he does, with a firm grasp, the principle that whatever conclusions he and those acting in conjunction with him may come to, express beyond all question the mind of the Spirit; and if those Darbyites who gather together in London, can go so far as to exclude all other denominations, even the most godly among them, 'believing themselves to be the one or only, assembly of God in London,' how need we feel surprised that Mr. Darby, as the 'prophet, priest, and king' of the party, should exercise a perfect despotism within the domains of Darbyism?"6 

George Müller: "Scripture declares plainly that the Lord Jesus will not come until the Apostasy shall have taken place, and the man of sin shall have been revealed..."7 

Borivali Assembly: "He (Anthony Groves) became increasingly concerned with the drift of the Plymouth Brethren towards sectarianism under the leadership of Darby and aligned himself with George Müller when the brethren split in 1848 to form the Open Brethren and Exclusive Brethren."8

The secret rapture

Woods further "correction" of Rich for using the term "secret rapture" is illegitimate.

Woods: "When someone uses the expression 'secret rapture' it shows me that they are really not doing original research. They are just sort of reading what someone else said. I think that's what Mr Rich did in that video. I think he has hooked into certain.. anti-dispensational authors. Because when you take the Bible at face value there is nothing secretive about it.."   (22:00 mark)

The expression "secret rapture" was employed by Darby and was a common expression within the "Left Behind" (Tim LaHaye) pretrib camp. It is only relatively recently that the pretrib camp have backtracked and no longer use this expression for the obvious reason that it is false. It is illegitimate to accuse Rich of doing poor research or using anti-dispensational material for his information as Woods suggested.

To quote one of Woods heroes Thomas Ice: "Darby introduced the concept of a secret rapture to take place ‘at any moment’, a belief which subsequently became one of the chief hallmarks of Brethren eschatology.. Ernest Sandeen tells us: Darby’s view of the premillennial advent contrasted with that held by the historicist millenarian school in two ways. First, Darby taught that the second advent would be secret, an event sensible only to those who participated in it. . . . There were, in effect, two 'second comings' in Darby’s eschatology. The church is first taken from the earth secretly and then, at a later time, Christ returns in a public second advent as described in Matthew 24.9 

Alan Kurschner: An older expression in pretribulational literature—and can still be used occasionally today—is secret coming or secret rapture. From my exposure to older pretrib and non-pretrib literature, it seemed to be used synonymous with the expressions signless coming or signless rapture, in contrast to an announced coming or announced rapture."10

The term "rapture"

Woods: "This idea that the word 'rapture' is not in the Bible. I mean that's just so silly; I can't believe people even use that argument anymore."

It is important to note that Rich described the prewrath rapture of the church, he did not deny the rapture. Rich did his best to articulate the difficult subject of eschatology to a mixed audience, including those who were perhaps unfamiliar with the term "rapture". Woods seemed to make the assumption that everyone in Carlson's audience was familiar with Christianese.

Rich: "..the word 'rapture' is nowhere in the Bible. It talks about us being caught up with him and pulled out of here, and then the ultimate wrath is poured out on this planet. That's what we call the rapture, but that's not in debate. The question is what happens leading up to that? It's a good question to ask right? For some reason nobody ever preaches that. They don't want to talk about what happens prior to it.. "11 

The myth that the pretrib rapture was taught prior to Darby    

   

Woods and other pretrib teachers are determined to propagate the myth that Darby's rapture teaching predates the 1800s. Frankly, they should abandon the idea of inventing fallacious "evidence" which is repeatedly debunked. Darby himself claimed that the Lord had personally revealed dispensational hermeneutics to him directly. The resulting furore from Darby's peers is testimony that the pretrib rapture had not been previously articulated.

Darby: "..what God has with infinite graciousness revealed to me concerning His dealing with the Church... it was in this the Lord was pleased, without man's teaching, first to open my eyes on this subject, that I might learn His will concerning it throughout."12

Woods: "To my knowledge there are probably around forty discovered pre-Darby pretribulation rapture statements.. I do remember the Pseudo Ephraem discovery.."

For the umpteenth time, there are no early sources prior to 1830 that articulate a pretrib rapture. Pseudo Ephraem has been repeatedly debunked as a pretrib document by reliable Bible scholars. The author of Pseudo Ephraem placed the rapture event after the Antichrist's arrival. I have added some links that demonstrate this at the end of the post. When you are dealing with dishonest scholarship there is no hope of meaningful discussion.   

Andy Woods: "Even if John Rich is right on 1830, who cares. The rapture doctrine is found in the Bible."

The rapture doctrine is found in the Bible; the pretrib rapture doctrine is not found in the Bible!

Melnick and Woods' pettiness paid off in one respect ~ they managed to catch Rich out in one error to their obvious delight. Rich was in error when he said that the word "Antichrist" does not exist within the Bible. The word Antichrist can be found in 1 John 2:18, 224:3 2 John 1:7. (35:00 mark) This is the only legitimate criticism they have against Rich.  

Woods: "Lets just pretend that Scofield and Darby were just horrible people. All the mud about them and slander about them is true. Well that doesn't change the fact that the pretrib rapture is wrong. Because you can't demolish an idea by trying to link it to a source and discrediting the source when the truth of it is found in God's Word." 

The character of church leaders and teachers is critically important biblically. (1 Timothy 3:1-7). We should have learned throughout the murky history of the church age that when anyone presents a novel doctrine caution is advised. (1 John 4:1). Both Darby and Scofield were very dark characters. Scofield's history is shocking. Wikipedia: "During the early 1890s, Scofield began styling himself Rev. C. I. Scofield, D.D.; but there are no extant records of any academic institution having granted him the honorary Doctor of Divinity degree.13 Furthermore Scofield was a self-confessed heavy drinker and he abandoned his wife and two daughters and married another woman. He faced criminal charges of fraud and embezzlement between 1877 and 1879, even after his alleged conversion, and he served at least one jail sentence.14 In short, Scofield had no business setting himself up as a Bible scholar/teacher! (1 Timothy 3:2,7; Acts 6:3; 2 Timothy 2:15; James 3:1). Woods' claim that pretrib rapture is found in God's Word is unreliable and highly disputed. There is not one clear verse in the scriptures that backs up a pretrib rapture! 

The lie of pretribulationism is one of the greatest scandals within Western Evangelicalism of our time. Pretrib leaders have accepted the lie and are sticking to it no matter what evidence to the contrary is presented to them. (Thessalonians 2:11). Woods' obfuscations and half-truths are worthy of any blatant false teacher and his Pharisaic attack upon Rich tells us more about Woods than Rich. 

The tactics of pretrib leaders: "..never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."15  

Not only does Woods knowingly persist in promoting the false pretrib rapture doctrine despite its defects, he does not believe in repentance as it relates to salvation, and he also promotes the false doctrine of once saved always saved (OSAS). These are very serious errors that put both him and his followers in a very precarious position before Jesus Christ. 

  . 

1. John Rich - Revelation (feat Sonya Isaacs) (youtube.com)
2. Tucker Carlson, John Rich, and the Rapture (youtube.com)
3. What is the Scofield Reference Bible? | GotQuestions.org
4. Scofield Reference Bible - Wikipedia
5. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: berean call conference 2015: paul wilkinson's divisive pre-tribulation delusion!!! (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
6. http://spurgeon.org/s_and_t/dbreth.htm
7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M%C3%BCller
8. Anthony Norris Groves - Borivali Assembly
9. Ice-2-PTRC 2011 (pre-trib.org)
10. The Meaning of 'Secret' in the Pretribulational Rapture Expression 'the Secret Coming of Christ' | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
11. John Rich: Donald Trump, the Darkness of Eminem’s New Album, and the Song Inspired by God (youtube.com)

12. Reflections Upon The Prophetic Inquiry And The Views Advanced In It | Plymouth Brethren Writings
13. C. I. Scofield - Wikipedia
14. Scofield, Cyrus Ingerson (tshaonline.org)
15. Joseph Goebbels On the “Big Lie” (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

Further Links

Writings & Arguments Against Actions and Doctrines of John Darby – The TRUTH SOURCE
Pseudo-Ephraem Is NOT a Pretribulation Document | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
Pseudo-Ephraem.pdf (alankurschner.com)
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: PSEUDO-EPHRAEM TAUGHT PRETRIB - NOT! BY DAVE MACPHERSON (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

ANDY WOODS' CHEAP SHOT AT THE PREWRATH RAPTURE!

(1) If You Only Knew | with Tom Hughes & Dr. Andy Woods - YouTube

In this episode of Hope For Our Times, rabid pre-trib teacher Andy Woods of Sugar Land Bible Church takes a cheap shot at the prewrath rapture. Woods argues that wrath (orgē) and tribulation (thlipsis) are synonyms in Romans 2:8-9. (27:00 mark). Since orgē and thlipsis are not synonymous anywhere else in the New Testament, why would these particular verses be an exception? Woods accuses the prewrath camp of playing a "semantic game". This accusation is very rich coming from the man who interprets apostasia as the rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, but I digress. (See Further Links) 

Woods: "..Romans 2:8-9 says 'tribulations' and 'wrath', those two words can overlap each other, even though they are different words.. Just because they are different words doesn't mean that they are compartmentalized the way that the prewrath rapture crowd have it.. So this kind of a semantic game you hear from a lot of these so-called prewrath rapturists.. That is what I am seeing in Revelation 6. I don't have to see the word 'wrath' right away to understand it's God's wrath because I know there is an overlap of tribulations and wrath when you study Romans 2 verses 8 and 9.. The prewrathers want to keep these things compartmentalized, but Romans 2 verses 8 and 9 won't let you do that. There is a semantic overlap in those words.. ..that overlap is what you do not see acknowledged by the prewrath rapturists, because they try to pretend like the initial judgements are really not done by Jesus, but by Satan or man, even though Jesus is obviously causing them by opening the seven-sealed scroll.. The compartmentalization that the prewrathers want isn't there as neatly and nicely as they make it sound." 

But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath (orgē) for yourself on the day of wrath (orgē) when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath (orgē) and fury (thumos). There will be tribulation (thlipsis) and distress (stenochōria) for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:5-11).

Romans 2:8-9 incorporates two separate pairs of descriptive nouns. There is an overlap between orgē and thumos, and also between thlipsis and stenochōria, but the two clauses are separate. 

orgé (wrath) anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance fury.. {1}

thumos fury, anger, an outburst of passion, wrath. {2} 

thlipsis (tribulation) distress anguish and grief.. {3} 

stenochōria a narrow space, great distress, anguish. {4}

Thlipsis indicates suffering/distress/anguish/grief/persecution/affliction. e.g. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings (thlipsis), knowing that suffering (thlipsis) produces endurance.. (Romans 5:3 cf. Acts 14:2; Romans 8:35; 12:12; Revelation 2:9-10 etc.)

The two separate pairs of descriptive nouns in Romans 2:8-9 are intentionally evocative. Thlipsis and stenochōria communicate additional details regarding the full horrors in store for the unrighteous. Those who obey unrighteousness will be subject to God's wrath and fury i.e. judgement/punishment/vengeance.. (Romans 2:5,8 cf. Psalm 78:49). This punishment will involve or consist of tribulation/anguish/grief/distress.. (Romans 2:9). Paul's various expressions of wrath and tribulation emphasize the terrible fate of the unrighteous in graphic detail.

The context of the great tribulation

Jesus Christ Himself gives the parameters that define the great tribulation in the Olivet discourse. The great tribulation will begin immediately following the abomination of desolation event when the Antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak. How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, (thlipsis) unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.(Matthew 24:15-21)

Immediately after the tribulation (thlipsis) of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.. (Matthew 24:29-31).

As Woods affirms, the 70th week of Daniel is initiated by the opening of the seven-sealed scroll by Jesus Christ. However, the prewrath view does not define this period as the day of wrath as mentioned in Romans 2:5. The wrath of God is described variously as the day of the Lord, the great day of Their wrath, the great and the terrible day of the LORD etc. and is often alluded to as "that day". The day of the Lord is God's direct intervention from heaven. The wrath of God will begin after the tribulation and will follow the cosmic disturbances and the rapture. (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 5:9). 

Andy Woods repeated a comment I have heard him make previously. He remarked glibly that if they are wrong about bible prophecy: "we will have to redraw our prophecy charts." (23:00 mark) He and Tom Hughes were actually making a joke about this! When the time comes, I think it will be a bit more serious than that! (Matthew 12:36; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 2 Timothy 2:15; James 3:1). Frankly, the repercussions for pre-trib rapture teachers will be very serious indeed ~ their charts will be the last thing on their minds. (Luke 17:1). Tom Hughes (Hope For Our Times) regularly parades various prophecy teachers whose prophetic speculations are an unhelpful distraction. For instance, Bill Salus' various "Now" speculations; {5} Lee Brainard's distortion of the early Church Fathers; {6} adulterer Don Stewart who is disqualified; {7} not to mention innumerable Gog/Magog speculations, including Woods' isolated two-phase view. {8} Bible teachers should be preparing believers to stand during the great tribulation, but pre-trib teachers are doing the very opposite by raising false hopes and making jokes! It is likely that many believers may actually fall away because of this wicked teaching! (Matthew 24:10). Tom Hughes and his pre-trib friends are setting up believers for a terrible fall. If anyone is guilty of playing "semantic games" it is Andy Woods and his associates! (2 Timothy 3:13).

1. Strong's Greek: 3709. ὀργή (orgé) -- impulse, wrath (biblehub.com)
2. Strong's Greek: 2372. θυμός (thumos) -- passion (biblehub.com)
3. Strong's Greek: 2347. θλῖψις (thlipsis) -- tribulation (biblehub.com)
4. Strong's Greek: 4730. στενοχωρία (stenochória) -- narrowness of space, fig. difficulty (biblehub.com)
5. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: BILL SALUS: GOG MAGOG DANGEROUS SPECULATIONS (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
6. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: LEE BRAINARD''S PHONY TRANSLATION OF EUSEBIUS DOES NOT PROVE THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE! (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
7. Scattered Sheep: January 20, 2012 Show: My Perspective on Don Stewart (scatteredsheepreport.blogspot.com)
8. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: ANDY WOODS: GOG MAGOG TWO-PHASE VIEW (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

Further Links

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: apostasia: rebellion or rapture? thomas ice pre-tribulation rapture trickery!
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
(bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Rapture (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
(2) 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie) - YouTube

BILL SALUS # JOEL ROSENBERG # ANDY WOODS: PROPHETIC EISEGESIS

Two major players within the pre-trib camp are Mark Hitchcock and Andy Woods. Woods recently debunked various speculations regarding alleged unfulfilled "Now/Next" Old Testament prophecies in his series The Middle East Meltdown. Woods' main source is Mark Hitchcock's book Showdown with Iran Appendix 1 and 2, in which he explains why certain Old Testament prophecies, specifically: Elam (Jeremiah 49:34-39; Ezekiel 32:24-25); Damascus (Isaiah 17:1-2; Jeremiah 49:23-27) and Psalm 83 are not futuristic prophecies. Woods took a deep dive into this subject and he delivered a stinging rebuttal against various "prophecy experts" including Bill Salus and Joel Rosenberg, who for the most part have been left unchecked in their bid to sell their wares to the Body of Christ. (2 Corinthians 2:17).

Unfortunately, Hitchock and Woods have so far missed the elephant in the room, namely, the false hope of a pre-tribulation rapture. It is a constant source of amazement to me that intelligent bible scholars believe in and support the pre-trib rapture. Thankfully a number of believers are now ditching the pre-trib theory in favour of the prewrath position. {1} Additionally, their alleged timing of the Gog/Magog war in Ezekiel 38 and 39 has serious issues. The reference to "unwalled villages" in Ezekiel 38:10 is highly problematic when applied to our own time period. It makes much more sense to take these chapters literally together with Revelation 20:7-10 i.e. this prophecy will be fulfilled at the end of the millennium as the scriptures indicate. Woods' promotion of the obscure "two-phase theory" regarding Ezekiel 38 and 39, including a bizarre connection to Ronald Reagan, is not supported by any other bible scholar. {2}

Woods' critique of the "Now/Next prophecies" is summarized below.

(1) The Middle East Meltdown 26. Ezekiel 38-39 - Q&A 7. Dr. Andy Woods. 8-7-22. - YouTube

Summary: 

Jeremiah 49:34-38 refers to Elam (Persia/Iran) and was fulfilled in the 6th century BC by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon.
Jeremiah 49:39 is eschatological.
Ezekiel 32:24-25 is a lament concerning Pharoah king of Egypt ~ Pharaoh will go down to the pit (the depths of the earth/Sheol) where he will see Assyria, Elam, Meshech and Tubal, Edom, and the Sidonians. The destruction of Egypt was fulfilled in 663 and 571 BC.

(1) The Middle East Meltdown 27. Ezekiel 38-39 - Q&A 8. Dr. Andy Woods. 8-21-22. - YouTube

Summary: 

Isaiah 17:1-2 is the oracle concerning the destruction of Damascus in Syria. This prophecy was fulfilled in 732 BC by Tilgath-Pilneser, the king of the neo-Assyrian empire. The fulfillment of this prophecy is described in Isaiah 37:36 and 2 Kings 19:35.

Debunked: Rosenberg's claim that Isaiah's prophecy against Damascus was given to him in 715 BC. In the year that King Ahaz died came this oracle: ( Isaiah 14:28-32). The oracle that Rosenberg refers to is limited to Philistia; it does not refer to Damascus, or to any other of the nations listed in Isaiah's oracles against the nations. (Isaiah 13-23). 

(2) The Middle East Meltdown 29. Ezekiel 38-39 - Q&A 10. Dr. Andy Woods. 9-4-22. - YouTube

Summary:

Jeremiah 49:23-27 was written about a hundred years after Isaiah and it should not be regarded as the same prophecy as Isaiah 17:1-2. The evidence: And I will kindle a fire in the wall of Damascus, and it shall devour the strongholds of Ben-hadad. (Jeremiah 49:27). "The fortresses of Ben-Hadad ('Ben-Hadad' lit., 'son of [the god] Hadad') was the name of the dynasty that ruled Damascus in the ninth and eighth centuries. (cf. 1 Kings 15:18,20; 20:1-34; 2 Kings 6:24;8:7; 13:3,24..)"  It is likely that this prophecy was fulfilled during the reign of King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon when he conquered Aram or Syria. The dominant aggressor in the passages surrounding Jeremiah 49:23-27 is King Nebuchadnezzar: Jeremiah 46:1,13,25-26 The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah the prophet concerning the nations. (plural) beginning with Egypt. The army of Pharaoh Neco was defeated by Nebuchadnezzar in the fourth year of Jehoiakim. Jeremiah 49:28-33: Nebuchadnezzar's defeat of Kedar and Hazor immediately follows the judgement on Damascus in Jeremiah 49:23-27. 

(5) The Middle East Meltdown 30. Ezekiel 38-39 - Q&A 11. Dr. Andy Woods. 9-11-21. Psalm 83 War? - YouTube

Summary:

Psalm 83 is Asaph's imprecatory prayer against Israel's enemies in 950 BC, it is not a prophecy. No war or battle is found in Psalm 83. Other imprecatory prayers are not prophetic. 

The Response from Bill Salus and Mondo Gonzales (Prophecy Watchers)

(3) The Isaiah 17 Misconception | Bill Salus - YouTube
(3) Prophecy Update | Why Jeremiah’s Iran Prophecy is Unfulfilled - YouTube

Are Jeremiah 49:34-39 and Ezekiel 38 the same event? What about Psalm 83? (prophecydepotministries.net)

In the above videos Salus advises his audience to be Bereans. In fact that is precisely what Hitchock and Woods have facilitated, and in my view, they have demonstrated beyond all reasonable doubt that these things are not so. (Acts 17:11 cf. 1 John 1:4). My own independent studies agree with the research done by Hitchock, and on this occasion Woods has done the Body of Christ a service in exposing these questionable speculations. (Ephesians 5:11). {3} Nevertheless his pre-trib eisegesis is a deplorable misapplication of God's word. There is no doubt in my mind that the "Now/Next prophecies" are contrived, and that Salus and others have taken advantage of the inherent complexities within certain Old Testament passages in order to manipulate them to their own advantage. (2 Corinthians 4:2). 

Mondo Gonzalez misapplies the meaning of "adding or taking away from the word of God" (Deuteronomy 4:2; Revelation 22:18-19). Gonzales: "Having a different interpretation of these prophecies is not adding to the word of God.. That's a pretty serious slanderous label simply to put on somebody, and to say that because they disagree, all of a sudden they are adding to the word."  Salus and Gonzalez claim that the discussion centers around "differences of opinion" and they object that the accusations of "adding to the word of God" does not have a place within "brotherly dialogue". There is a vast difference between friendly disagreements/discussions about minor details and serious objections about teachers who distort or falsify the word of God. Such distortions do add to the word of God. A further warning in the New Testament is not to go beyond what is written. (1 Corinthians 4:6). Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary puts it very well: "Revere the silence of Holy Writ, as much as its declarations: so you will less dogmatize on what is not expressly revealed (De 29:29)." {4} 

Problematically, and despite their denials, Salus' and Rosenberg's so-called "opinions" are reckless speculations based on newspaper exegesis. These men sell a lot of materials, they attract many viewers, and they fill conference seats. Ironically they themselves fulfill bible prophecy: For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions.. (2 Timothy 4:3).

Gonzalez referred to Dwight Pentecost as a credible example of a scholar who believed that Jeremiah 49:23-27, 34-39 and Isaiah 17 were future prophecies that would happen during "the tribulation". Pre-trib teachers constantly make the error of referring to the first half of the 70th week of Daniel as "the tribulation". {5} Dwight Pentecost was a pre-trib scholar whose contradictory understanding of eschatology has been exposed in a PDF by Doug Eigsti. {6} 

I know that Arnold Fruchtenbaum is a very well-respected scholar within the pre-trib camp. It is worth noting however that he attends and supports the ecumenical Lausanne Movement. I did publish a link in a previous post verifying this, but I have noticed that it has been removed. {7} *I have added a link at the end of this post regarding Fruchtenbaum's blatant inaccuracies. 

As far as I can ascertain, John Walvoord did not support a future fulfillment concerning Elam in Jeremiah 49:34-38. He simply mentioned this passage in connection with other miscellaneous Old Testament prophecies. Walvoord: "The more extended prophecies as found in Isaiah 17:1-14 and Jeremiah 49:23-27 have all been fulfilled as well as the occasional references found in Isaiah 7:8; 8:4; Amos 1:3-5; 3:12; 5:27..  A brief prophecy concerning Kedar and Hazor is contained in Jeremiah 49:28-33. It is a prediction of judgment upon them at the hands of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. A similar judgment is pronounced upon Elam in Jeremiah 49:34-38." {8}  

Arno Gaebelein: "The final prediction is as to Elam. Elam was east of South Babylonia and the lower Tigris, later known as Susians. This prophecy was given at the beginning of Zedekiah’s reign. Elam became an ally of the Persian kingdom. Here her overthrow is foretold as well as her restoration 'in the latter days.'" {9} It appears to me that this quote from Gaebelein is ambiguous i.e. it is not clear to me that Gaebelein's intention was to include the overthrow and the restoration of Elam in "the latter days". Interestingly, Gaebelein viewed the Gog/Magog war as a millennial event: "The invasion will happen some time after the beastly empire with its beast head, the revived Roman empire, in its final ten kingdom form and the clay, with the little horn as leader Daniel 7:1-28; Revelation 13:1-18 and the false prophet, the personal Antichrist Revelation 13:11, etc. have been dealt with in judgment Revelation 19:19-21."  {10} 

Both Salus and Gonzales claim that the "Now/Next prophecies" are not dogmatic. Really!  Woods gave some clear examples of Rosenberg's dogmatic position in his series The Middle East Meltdown and I will not repeat them here. Below are two examples of Salus' dogmatism: 

The back cover of Salus' book The Next Prophecies: "The NEXT PROPHECIES will happen soon after The NOW PROPHECIES and the stage is presently being set for their fulfillment!" {11}

The back cover of Salus' book The Now Prophecies: The NOW Prophecies book identifies the biblical prophecies that were written centuries ago for THIS GENERATION! {12} 

In my view, the Now/Next prophecy teachers are not so very far removed from the false prophets of the NAR Movement and we should mark and avoid them. (Romans 16:17-18 cf. 1 Timothy 1:4; 2 Timothy 2:23; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 2 Peter 3:16). Salus promotes his speculations through apostate channels like TBN, God TV and Daystar. Tragically, Prophecy Watchers is not much better; their shameless merchandising does not provide a credible witness for Jesus Christ and their promotion of false teachers like Jonathan Cahn etc is highly questionable. In light of this, it is not unreasonable to ask the question: Who are these men really serving? (Matthew 6:24).

Hitchcock's research is compelling and it leaves Salus, Rosenberg et al in a very difficult position. (2 Peter 2:1). The "Now/Next prophecies" are based either on very poor exegesis or they are deliberate misapplications of the scriptures. (1 Timothy 1:4; 2 Timothy 2:23). In either case, these individuals have no business teaching the word of God. (James 3:1). The fact that there is a serious disagreement within the pre-trib camp concerning these passages is a significant development, and hopefully these problems will encourage more believers to test the spirits. (1 John 4:1).

1. Pastor: From Pre-Trib to Pre-Wrath | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
2. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: ANDY WOODS: GOG MAGOG TWO-PHASE VIEW (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
2. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: ANDY WOODS: RONALD REAGAN'S GOG MAGOG VIEW (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
3. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: BILL SALUS: GOG MAGOG DANGEROUS SPECULATIONS (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
4. 1 Corinthians 4 Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary (biblehub.com)
5. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
6. Microsoft Word - Imminency versus Prophecy 3.7.doc (alankurschner.com)
7. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: BILL SALUS: IS PSALM 83 PROPHETIC? (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
7. Lausanne Occasional Paper: Jewish Evangelism: A Call to the Church - Lausanne Movement
7. Evangelism / Apologetics where has it gone - UK Aplogetics Library (ukapologeticslibrary.net)
8. Chapter XV The Nations In The Millennium And The Eternal State | Walvoord.com
9. Jeremiah 49 Gaebelein's Annotated Bible (biblehub.com)
10. Ezekiel 38 Gaebelein's Annotated Bible (biblehub.com)
11. The Next Prophecies: Amazon.co.uk: Salus, Bill: 9780692176177: Books
12. The Now Prophecies: Amazon.co.uk: Salus, Bill: 9780988726079: Books

* Arnold Fruchtenbaum Archives | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)

ANDY WOODS: RONALD REAGAN'S GOG MAGOG VIEW

(30) Pastors' Point of View (PPOV) 212. Prophecy update on Israel and Babylon. YT edit - YouTube

Whether Andy Woods is completely naïve, or whether he is amenable to say just about anything to justify his views is debatable. Woods' previous speculation on the Gog/Magog two-phase view, concocted by Harold W. Hoehner, defies sound exegesis. {1}  This view is rejected by Woods' contemporaries within the pre-trib camp, and it is not even mentioned or given houseroom by other prominent premillennialists in the prewrath or post-trib camp. 

Theology of desperation

In the above video, Woods presses the subject of Gog/Magog further with the astonishing claim that we should give validity to Ronald Reagan's views on Ezekiel 38 and 39. Woods stated that Reagan's understanding of Gog/Magog matches his own view. He went on to quote New York Times best-selling author Joel C Rosenberg, who wrote in his fictional book 'The Ezekiel Option' that Ronald Reagan was fascinated with the coming war of Gog and Magog. {2} 

Below are some excerpts from Rosenberg's website in which he outlines Reagan's views on the Gog/Magog battle.

“'In the thirty-eighth chapter of Ezekiel it says God will take the children of Israel from among the heathen [where] they’d been scattered and will gather them again in the promised land,' Reagan told Mills. 'Ezekiel says that . . . the nation that will lead all the other powers into darkness against Israel will come out of the north. What other powerful nation is to the north of Israel [besides Russia]? None. But it didn’t seem to make sense before the Russian revolution, when Russia was a Christian country. Now it does, now that Russia has become communistic and atheistic, now that Russia has set itself against God. Now it fits the description perfectly.' Reagan conceded that 'everything hasn’t fallen into place yet,' but he strongly believed the end of the Soviet empire and the second coming of Christ were increasingly close at hand..

..Reagan continued to talk about such things, as he had for many years.
I once asked Michael Reagan, the president’s son, if such accounts rang true. He confirmed that they did, noting that his father firmly believed he was living in history’s last days and thought that he might even see the return of Christ in his lifetime. 10
Ronald Reagan was a devout Christian. He was a student of the Bible. He was fascinated with end-times prophecies. He believed they were true. He talked about them with friends and colleagues. They helped shape his view that the Soviet Union, and the system of evil it advanced and perpetuated, was not long for this world. For a movie actor turned president like Ronald Reagan, the Bible was indeed the greatest story ever told. He had read the last chapter, and thus he knew for certain that a day of reckoning—a day of justice—was coming." {2}

Woods pressed the point that Ronald Reagan was a "devout Christian". However, he "forgot" to mention the widely known fact that as well as being members of the ecumenical Presbyterian Church in America, the Reagans were heavily involved with various psychics and astrologers, practices strongly condemned as an abomination in the scriptures. (Deuteronomy 18:11; Leviticus 19:31, 20:27 cf. 2 Corinthians 6:14). The Reagans had what we call a "mixture" of syncretistic religious beliefs, a position that cannot be reconciled with biblical Christianity. Reagan defined himself as a "born-again Christian", but it should be obvious to those of us who really are "born-again" that he and his wife Nancy had massive spiritual problems. Reagan was the very last person to have had an understanding of Ezekiel 38 and 39 or the timing of the Gog/Magog battle! 

Below is an article written in 2009 by Robert Melkonyan. 

The Shocking Truth About Ronald and Nancy Reagan's Use of Psychic Help

"Though shocking as the title indicates it comes out as no secret at all to the fact that the Reagan presidency was actually controlled by the cosmos astrological forces.

It is believed that the Reagan's while making very important decisions concerning the state and in the White House strongly relied on astrology as a savior. Joan Quigley who was the planner of almost all presidential travel, press conferences, including the Reagan cancer surgery was an astrologer and based the surgery on astrology. It is believed that one signing of a treaty between the U.S and the Soviet to eliminate the medium-range nuclear missiles was signed on astrological advice from Quigley: the treaty was signed on December 8, 1987 at 1.30 p.m.

When Reagan was a Governor of California, he signed a legislation that allowed licensed astrologers to practice their trade and removed them from the category of being fortune tellers. In this case there is one astrologer who became very famous just because of predicting the assassination of President Kennedy and of which was once an astrological advisor to the Reagan's too; was known as Jeane Dixon. By predicting that Reagan would become Governor of California in 1962 and later the President of The U.S, Dixon gained Reagan's favor but of which was later dropped by Nancy when she predicted that the husband Reagan would not win the presidential elections in 1976 of which was correct.

Joyce Jillson was another astrologer who helped the Reagan's in selecting the vice president from a list of seven candidates and George bush was the best candidate Jillson could offer; to her it was because Bush was a Gemini of which was the best or rather the most compatible sign-a Gemini that rhymed with Reagan who was an Aquarian.

In 1980, when Reagan commenced his campaign, Quigley predicted his succession to be President of the United States; but everything changed when there was an assassination attempt against Reagan in March 30, 1981; this is because Nancy came to learn that March 30 would be a terrible day for Reagan; Nancy learnt all this from Quigley. At this point Quigley was appointed the astrological protector for Reagan's life from being a casual astrologer friend, interestingly about this assassination is that Reagan had a deathbed vision while in the hospital.

This is when Nancy Reagan also became aware of the so called "residential Death Cycle" of which it involves Jupiter and Saturn but also known as the "Zero-year curse", this is because each and every president elected at this same time since the election of William Harrison has died while in office.

Harry Truman being a common man with principals he maintained of which we can actually see the same on Reagan. Harry being a Baptist, the Reagan's were into psychics and the Presbyterian church of America. Though Reagan opened the diplomatic relations with the Vatican for the first time and managed to put Rome and the USA on equal international ground; Harry signed the Vatican guest book as 'Harry S. Truman, Baptist." {3}

The above information can easily be verified by a number of other sources.

When bible teachers resort to blatant untruths and manipulation of the facts, it is time to reassess their honesty and competency. (1 Timothy 3:2). Woods' Gog/Magog machinations will hopefully convince his followers within the pre-trib camp to question his teachings in other areas!  

1. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: ANDY WOODS: GOG MAGOG TWO-PHASE VIEW (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
2. Fiction | Joel C. Rosenberg (joelrosenberg.com)
3. The Shocking Truth About Ronald and Nancy Reagan's Use of Psychic Help (ezinearticles.com)

Further Links

Nancy Reagan tried to cover up White House’s use of clairvoyant, documentary claims |
The IndependentHow Nancy Reagan let her astrologer control the presidency (nypost.com)
White House Confirms Reagans Follow Astrology, Up to a Point - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Reagans Catholic Connections (catholiceducation.org)

ANDY WOODS: GOG MAGOG TWO-PHASE VIEW

(4) GOG AND MAGOG: Ezekiel 38-39 - YouTube

Andy Woods (Sugar Land Bible Church) adds a novel interpretation to various eisegetical speculations concerning the Gog/Magog battle in Ezekiel 38 and 39. He originally presented this view in 2015, and it is also included in the latest episodes of his recent series Middle East Meltdown - YouTube

Woods' view on the timing of the Ezekiel 38-39 battle is known as the "two phase view" which he has adopted from Harold W. Hoehner. Essentially, Woods locates Ezekiel 38 at the opening of the second seal of Revelation (Revelation 6:3), and Ezekiel 39 at the end of the 70th week of Daniel. (Revelation 19:19-21,16:16). Those who support a Gog/Magog battle during the early part of the 70th week of Daniel include John Walvoord, J. Dwight Pentecost, Charles Ryrie, Herman Hoyt, Charles Dyer, and Mark Hitchcock. As far as I can ascertain, apart from Woods, no other bible teacher supports Hoehner's two-phase view. I do not necessarily reject minority views, but the fact that bible scholars generally do not give any weight to Hoehner's view indicates that it is problematic.

Constable's Expository Notes: Harold W. Hoehner, "Ezekiel 38 refers to events in the middle of the Tribulation and chapter 39 to events at the end of the Tribulation.] Some advocates equate Gog with the king of the North (Daniel 11:40). Some of Ezekiel’s descriptions of Gog’s invasion recur in Revelation 19:17-21, which describes the end of the Tribulation. However other aspects appear in Revelation 20:7-10, which describes the end of the Millennium. Israel is dwelling securely in the land that Gog will invade, but at the end of the Tribulation Israel will have been under intense attack for three and a half years Daniel 9:27)." {1} 

To avoid confusion, I will clarify some pre-trib definitions for the sake of anyone reading their material. The pre-trib camp define the entire 70th week of Daniel as "the tribulation", and when they speak about the rapture, they refer to a "pre-tribulation rapture". The prewrath position, which is my view, refers to "the tribulation" or "the great tribulation" biblically as 1260 days or 42 months. This period takes place during the second half of the 70th week of Daniel. (Daniel 12:7; Matthew 24:21; Revelation 12:6,14; 13:5). The prewrath position maintains that the rapture takes place between the sixth and seventh seal of Revelation. 

Woods suggests that Ezekiel 38 and 39 follow a progressive pattern rather than a single event. The reasoning behind the two-phase view is that Ezekiel often describes eschatological events as part of a prolonged process. Woods: "For example, in Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones (Ezek. 37:1-14), the prophet describes the bones assembling, the flesh appearing on the bones, and finally the breath of life entering this newly formed body. Most would not understand this as being fulfilled in a singular prophetic event. Rather, it is likely a prophecy involving a prolonged process. First, Israel is returned to her homeland beginning in 1948. Then, she will experience a time of discipline known as the Great Tribulation. Through such discipline, she will come to know Christ and will consequently be regenerated leading to the millennial age. So in Ezekiel 37:11-14, Ezekiel foresaw a singular in a singular prophecy spanning arguably several decades. The same prolonged process is also in view in the prior chapter (Ezek. 36:24-28). Ezekiel 36:24 describes the Jews first being regathered back to their own land. Then the prophet narrates Israel's spiritual regeneration (Ezek 36:25-28) as a result of the Tribulation period. Notice, once again, Ezekiel is making reference to a process arguably beginning in 1948 and then spanning several decades." {2}

Whilst a prolonged process is indicated in the dry bones prophecy of Ezekiel 37, I am doubtful that we can separate Ezekiel 38 and 39 and make the presumption that assumes a "process" of two distinct phases, or whether this interpretation conveniently solves a difficult problem for Woods. There is no biblical evidence to corroborate the theory that the Gog/Magog battle is anything other than a single event. 

Mark Hitchcock: "Harold Hoehner contends that Ezek 38–39 will be fulfilled in two phases.[40] He believes that Ezek 38 will be fulfilled early in the tribulation and that Ezek 39 will be fulfilled at the end of the tribulation. The strength of this view is that it harmonizes the text well with other related texts such as Rev 19. However, the main weakness of this view is that Ezek 38 and 39 appear to be describing the same invasion and its aftermath not two distinct phases separated by several years." {3} 

According to Woods, the Gog/Magog battle will occur after Israel's initial regathering in unbelief, but before her final restoration. He bases his argument on Ezekiel 38:8b and Ezekiel 39:22,29. 

After a long time you will be summoned. In the latter years you will enter a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and all now dwell securely. (Ezekiel 38:8).

From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God... And I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Lord GOD.” (Ezekiel 39:22,29).

Problems with this view

Woods' reasoning is that this battle will occur following the period of pseudo peace initiated by the Antichrist at the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel when Israel is apparently dwelling securely. (Ezekiel 38:14-16). Woods claims that the first seal represents peace, and that this peace is shattered by the unleashing of the second seal i.e. the red horse of war. (Revelation 6:2-4). 

And he shall make a strong (gābar) covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”(Daniel 9:27).  

The Hebrew verb gābar suggests that the Antichrist imposes a strong covenant with many for seven years, which he will break at the mid point of the "week". "Many" suggests that he does not have the support of "all". The covenant appears to relate primarily to the protection of Israel and the reinstitution of the sacrificial system. It  may be that an uneasy peace is imposed upon Israel by the Antichrist, and that Israel agrees to it, perhaps under coercion. In any event, the "security" claimed does not appear to be the unsurpassed security spoken of in Ezekiel 38:11: ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will fall upon the quiet people who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having no bars or gates.. 

For Gog and his coalition to come against Israel at the breaking of the second seal would necessitate a challenge to the covenant between the Antichrist and Israel. The strong covenant the Antichrist makes with Israel at the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel is a critical point in the prophetic timeline that sets in motion the final events leading up to the end of the present age. There is no indication in the scriptures that a coalition of nations will attempt to derail the critical covenant between the Antichrist and Israel. The first seal sees the Antichrist coming out conquering and to conquer. (Revelation 6:2). During the first half of the 70th week, the Antichrist will invade many countries sweeping through them like a flood. The only countries that escape the Antichrist's attention are Edom, Moab and the leaders of the Ammonites (modern day Jordan). As such it is unlikely that a coalition of nations will be in a position to attack Israel or to contemplate "taking the spoil". (Ezekiel 38:13). 

At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood. He will also invade the Beautiful Land, and many countries will fall. But these will be delivered from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the leaders of the Ammonites. He will extend his power over many countries, and not even the land of Egypt will escape. He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and over all the riches of Egypt, and the Libyans and Cushites will also submit to him. (Daniel 11:40-43 cf. Revelation 13:4).

In Ezekiel 38, it appears that Gog's intention to invade Israel is unopposed. There is perhaps a weak objection from Saudi Arabia and the merchants of Tarshish (Spain?), but there is no tangible opposition that deters Gog and his hordes from attacking Israel. (Ezekiel 38:13). Hoehner's two-phase view completely overlooks (or underestimates) the obstacle of the Antichrist's strong covenant with Israel. Israel is under the "protection" of the Antichrist during the first half of the 70th week, so where is Gog's motivation to invade?  

The mid point of the 70th week of Daniel marks the end of the period of pseudo peace initiated by the Antichrist. The abomination of desolation event will occur in the middle of the "week" when the Antichrist seizes control of the Jewish temple and proclaims himself to be god. This will mark the onset of the period known as Jacob's trouble i.e. the great tribulation. (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:21; Daniel 12:1). Many Jews and Christians will flee to the mountains (Matthew 24:16), and two thirds of the Jewish people who remain in the land will perish. (Zechariah 13:8). Hoehner's ill-conceived two-phase view assumes that the progressive nature of Gog's invasion will continue throughout this period, and that it will also continue during the devastating trumpet and bowl judgements. 

The sacrificial bird feast

At the 2:08 point of his 2015 video, Woods changes tack from the "Where" question in relation to Ezekiel 38 and 39 to the "What" question. This is where his reasoning becomes totally irrational.

Although there are some similarities between the sacrificial bird feast described in Ezekiel 38:4,17-20 and the feast described in Revelation 19, the differences demonstrate that these two passages do not describe the same event. Woods describes the sacrificial bird feast as the "aftermath" of the Gog Magog battle in Ezekiel 39. Problematically for Woods, Revelation 19 refers to Armageddon and involves the beast (the Antichrist) and his forces, not Gog.

The beast (the Antichrist) and his armies gather at Armageddon to make war against Jesus Christ and his visible armies. The beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. The remainder of the armies of the Antichrist are slain by Jesus Christ Himself. There is no mention of pestilence, torrential rains, hailstones, fire and sulfur in Revelation 19. The Gog Magog armies will fall on the mountains of Israel, in the open field, and Gog and all his multitude will be buried in the Valley of the Travelers in Israel.

Ezekiel 39:2-6,11

And I will turn you about and drive you forward, and bring you up from the uttermost parts of the north, and lead you against the mountains of Israel. Then I will strike your bow from your left hand, and will make your arrows drop out of your right hand. You shall fall on the mountains of Israel, you and all your hordes and the peoples who are with you. I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. You shall fall in the open field, for I have spoken, declares the Lord GOD. 6I will send fire on Magog and on those who dwell securely in the coastlands, and they shall know that I am the LORD.. “On that day I will give to Gog a place for burial in Israel, the Valley of the Travelers, east of the sea. It will block the travelers, for there Gog and all his multitude will be buried. It will be called the Valley of Hamon-gog. 

Ezekiel 38:22

With pestilence and bloodshed I will enter into judgment with him, and I will rain upon him and his hordes and the many peoples who are with him torrential rains and hailstones, fire and sulfur. 

Revelation 19:19-21 cf. Revelation 16:16

And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army. And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

Woods' baffling presentations on this subject are short on specifics. The irrational view that a "progressive two-phase Gog/Magog war" will continue to develop right through the entire period of the 70th week of Daniel, culminating with the bird feast of Revelation 19 (Armageddon) is untenable. Hoehner's two-phase view is one of most improbable interpretations of Ezekiel 38 and 39 I have heard to date. 

The house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD

Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: Now I will restore Jacob from captivity and will have compassion on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for My holy name. They will forget their disgrace and all the treachery they committed against Me, when they dwell securely in their land, with no one to frighten them. When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them out of the lands of their enemies, I will show My holiness in them in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, when I regather them to their own land, not leaving any of them behind after their exile among the nations. And I will no longer hide My face from them, for I will pour out My Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Lord GOD.” (Ezekiel 39:25-29). 

 

Expositors Bible Commentary: "39:25-29.-The closing verses do not strictly belong to the oracle on Gog. The prophet returns to the standpoint of the present, and predicts once more the restoration of Israel, which has heretofore been assumed as an accomplished fact. The connection with what precedes is, however, very close. The divine attributes, whose final manifestation to the world is reserved for the far-off day of Gog’s defeat, are already about to be revealed to Israel. Jehovah’s compassion for His people and His jealousy for His own name will speedily be shown in "turning the fortunes" of Israel, bringing them back from the peoples, and gathering them from the land of their enemies. The consequences of this upon the nation itself are described in more gracious terms than in any other passage. They shall forget their shame and all their trespasses when they dwell securely in their own land, none making them afraid. The saving knowledge of Jehovah as their God, who led them into captivity and brought them back again, will as far as Israel is concerned be complete; and the gracious relation thus established shall no more be interrupted, because of the divine Spirit which has been poured out on the house of Israel."  {4} 

Conclusion

Mark Hitchcock recognizes, but understates, the problem of "varying opinions" regarding the Gog/Magog prophecy in Ezekiel 38 and 39. Hitchcock: "Unfortunately, varying opinions have been offered by capable Bible scholars on this point, and there has been considerable disagreement." {3} 

While many conservative teachers rightly condemn the charismatic/NAR movement for their dangerous speculations and unbiblical practices, I wonder whether there is an element of hypocrisy at play here. There is no benefit to the body of Christ when conservative teachers speculate on matters they don't fully understand, and when they manipulate the scriptures to suit their own presuppositions. (Proverbs 30:6; Revelation 22:18-19). I find the arrogance of some of these teachers very difficult to deal with. (Isaiah 5:21). They literally spend hours and hours teaching and defending questionable theories that reflect nothing but their own imaginations. The pre-trib rapture theory is another one of Woods' pet doctrines that he spends an inordinate amount of time defending. Woods is a tragic example of a supposedly sound bible teacher misleading believers regarding critical eschatological events.

At the end of his life, after almost completing Summa Theologiae, Thomas Aquinas likened his work to straw. {5} There is a lesson here for some of us. (1 Corinthians 3:12-15).

Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
and do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make straight your paths.
Be not wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.
It will be healing to your flesh
and refreshment to your bones. (Proverbs 3:5-8).

1. Ezekiel 39 - Dr. Constable's Expository Notes - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org2. Microsoft Word - Woods-Middle_East_Meltdown-Paper.doc (deanbibleministries.org)
3. The Battle of Gog and Magog - PDFCOFFEE.COM
4. Ezekiel 39 Expositor's Bible Commentary (biblehub.com)
5. I can write no more | InContext | Christian History Institute

Further Link

J Paul Tanner: Daniel's "King of the North": Do we owe Russia an apology?

https://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/35/35-3/JETS_35-3_315-328_Tanner.pdf

ANDY WOODS PREWRATH RAPTURE ONSLAUGHT (PART 7)

Rapture Sermon Series 48. Explaining Pre-Wrath, Part 7. Matthew 24:31, 40-41. - YouTube

The critical question: Is Matthew 24:31 the rapture, or is it the regathering of the Jews?

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather (episunagó) His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31).

Illegitimate Totality Transfer..  episunagó - to gather together

Andy Woods has utilized DA Carson's "Illegitimate Totality Transfer" fallacy (i.e. the explicit or implicit transfer of all the meanings of a given word into any given passage.) {1} One such alleged example of this fallacy, according to Andy Woods, is gather/episunagó in Matthew 24:31 as it is applied to 2 Thessalonians 2:1.

Now concerning the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered (episunagó) together to him, we ask you, brothers.. (2 Thessalonians 2:1)  

The pre-trib habit of limiting their comparisons to particular verses falls foul of the many demonstrable parallels between 1 and 2 Thessalonians and the Olivet Discourse. Some examples: Matthew 24:30/1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Matthew 24:36/1Thessalonians 5:1-2; Matthew 24:43/1 Thessalonians 5:2,4; Matthew 24:37-39/1 Thessalonians 5:3; Matthew 24:8/1 Thessalonians 5:3; Matthew 24:42/1 Thessalonians 5:4; Matthew 24:49/1Thessalonians 5:7. These parallels demonstrate that Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 24 is the source of Paul’s doctrine. (2 Timothy 2:15).

While the word episunagó by itself in Matthew 24:31 does not prove the rapture, there is evidence that both passages do in fact refer to the rapture. 

Matthew 24 addresses the specific question relating to Jesus' return: What will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age? (Matthew 24:3). The chronology of events immediately following the great tribulation are (1) the cosmic disturbances. (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 6:12-14); (2) the sign of the Son of Man i.e. the visible manifestation of Jesus ..coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:30; Revelation 6:16); (3) And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:31). Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 all refer to the resurrection of believers (the rapture) at the trumpet  call. Paul refers to "the trumpet of God" and "the last trumpet". Matthew 24:31 refers to the sounding of "a loud trumpet call". Jesus is undoubtedly referring to His coming (parousia), He is not talking about a "horizontal" regathering of Israel. Luke also affirms that the rapture (parousia) is in view: 

At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. (Luke 21:27-28). 

  

Meyer: "εἰς ἡμέρ. ἀπολυτρ.] for the day of redemption; when at the Parousia the certainty of the deliverance unto salvation, indicated by ἐσφραγ., becomes reality. As to ἀπολύτρωσις, comp. on Ephesians 1:14; Luke 21:28; also Romans 8:23." {2}

The resurrection in Matthew 24 

Jesus' source for the Olivet Discourse was Daniel. (Matthew 24:15). In Daniel 12:1-2 there is a distinction between your people (Israel) in verse 1, and the many in verse 2 which references the resurrection of believers after the great tribulation. (Daniel 12:1; Matthew 24:21).

At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:1-2).

For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. (Matthew 24:21).

Posttribulationist and Christian Hebraist Samuel Prideaux Tregelles was one of a number of noteable bible scholars who opposed John Nelson Darby's concept of a pre-trib rapture in the 19th century. Tregelles' interpretation of Daniel 12:2 places the first resurrection at Revelation 20:4. Isaiah 26:19-21 is definitely prewrath, but Tregelles amalgamates Israel's deliverance and the first resurrection which is problematic. Alan Kurschner regards the beheaded martyrs who participate in the first resurrection as thematic rather than sequential. "..and they lived εζησαν and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4). εζησαν verb - aorist active indicative". {3} 

Tregelles: "And many from among the sleepers of the dust of the earth shall awake; these shall be unto everlasting life; but those [the rest of the sleepers] shall be unto shame and* everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2)

Tregelles: "The word which in our Authorised version is twice rendered “some” is never repeated in any other passage in the Hebrew Bible, in the sense of taking up distributively any general class which had been previously mentioned; this is enough, I believe, to warrant our applying its first occurrence here to the whole of the many who awake, and the second to the mass of the sleepers, those who do not awake at this time. It is clearly not a general resurrection; it is 'many from among'; and it is only by taking the words in this sense that we gain any information as to what becomes of those who continue to sleep in the dust of the earth.*

I have given, I believe, the most literal rendering of this verse;* it speaks of a [select] resurrection, not the general, when all shall be called forth, but one of an eclectic character, 'many [not all] from amongst the sleepers'. Just so in Rev. 20, after 'the first resurrection' has been mentioned, we are told, 'the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.' It is at the coming of the Lord Jesus that Israel is delivered; it is then that the first resurrection also takes place. Just in the same manner do we read of a resurrection in Isa. 26: 19, in connection with the Lord coming out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: 'Thy dead men shall live; they shall arise my dead body.' [Such are the words literally. Identified with Christ as being His members.]

[* NOTE. The 'and' here, should be understood as a disjunction, separating two distinct groups of disembodied souls presently waiting (in “Hades”- (for this is the place, 'in the heart of the earth' where the souls of all the dead presently are: Matt. 12: 40; 16: 18; Luke 16: 29-31; Acts 2: 27, 34; Rev. 6: 9, 10, R.V.).
Therefore, those described above as 'the rest of the sleepers' are resurrected when 'the thousand years should be finished' (Rev. 20: 3, R.V.), (1) The words 'unto shame,' – are a description of the regenerate who will not be 'recompensed in the resurrection of the just' (Luke 14: 14): and (2) the words 'everlasting contempt' - are a description of all the unregenerate - 'not found written in the book of life,' and 'cast into the lake of fire' (Rev. 20: 15).

See Luke 20: 35; Phil. 3: 11; Heb. 11: 35b; Rev. 20: 4-6, etc. R.V. All these texts describe a select resurrection “out of dead ones,” into a MILLENNIAL REWARD. See Acts 7: 4, 5; Rev. 2: 25-27; 3: 11, 21, R.V. cf. Rom. 8: 23-25; Heb. 11: 6, 26, 40; 1 Pet. 1: 5, 9, 11b, R.V. etc.]" {4}

The Christian Journal: "Samuel Prideaux Tregelles alleged that John Nelson Darby's concept of the rapture was taken from one of the charismatic utterances in Edward Irving’s church (at a prophecy conference held in 1830 at Powerscourt Castle, Ireland). Since Tregelles regarded the utterances as “pretending to be from God,” his implication is that Darby’s rapture is from a demonic source. Dave MacPherson built upon Tregelles’s accusation, and claimed the source for Darby’s rapture was from an utterance of Margaret MacDonald." {5}

Apostasia/Rebellion

Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion (apostasia) occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. (2 Thessalonians 2:3). 

Biblical scholars of integrity unanimously interpret apostasia as rebellion. However, Andy Woods, who is in league with Thomas Ice, has come up the dubious interpretation that apostasia is a "departure" i.e. the rapture. This bizarre interpretation has been debunked, even by renowned pre-trib scholars. It appears that some pre-trib teachers will say almost anything in order to pervert the eschatological teachings of the New Testament.

Dave MacPherson: "THOMAS ICE — Protector of the shrinking Principality of Pretribulatia — believes that his 'texas receptus' interpretation of II Thess. 2:3 is much better than that of his mentor, the late Dr. John Walvoord!" {6} 

One will be taken and one left

But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept (airo) them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken (paralambanó ) and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken (paralambanó) and one left (aphiémi). (Matthew 24:36-41 cf. Matthew 24:28).

I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left. There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken (paralambanó) and the other left (aphiémi). . "And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.” (Luke 17:34-37).

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take (paralambanó) you to myself, that where I am you may be also. (John 14:3).

Typically paralambanó is an affirmative verb meaning to receive or to take to oneself. {7} The meaning of aphiémi is to send away, leave alone (in this context it has the sense of abandonment). {8}

The pre-trib camp identify those being taken with the wicked taken for judgement following the battle of Armageddon. They connect the proverbial saying: "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather"(Matthew 24:28; Luke 17:37) with Armageddon, where the birds literally gorge themselves on the flesh of the wicked i.e. the flesh of the men and horses slain in the battle. (Revelation 19:17-18, 21 cf. Ezekiel 39:17-21). However, the birds are gathered at this event, not the wicked. Furthermore the context of Matthew 24 is the coming of the Son of Man (parousia) and the gathering of the elect i.e. the rapture. (Matthew 24:3,27,30,37,39,42,43,44). This event should be distinguished from Armageddon.

The example of Noah illustrates that the wicked were swept away (airo) by the flood waters to perish, whereas the ark rose above the flood waters. Considering the meanings of paralambanó and aphiémi, the meaning of airó in this context is to sweep away i.e. to take away or to remove by the action of the flood waters. It is inappropriate to interpret airó "to raise or to lift up" in the pre-trib sense that the wicked are taken and the righteous remain on the earth. {9} Similarly, Genesis 19:1,12-22 is a vivid illustration of the involvement of angels in the deliverance of Lot and his family from the destruction of Sodom. (Luke 17-28-29 cf. Matthew 24:3).

The parable of the ten virgins also confirms the prewrath view of one taken and one left. The wise virgins go in with Jesus to the marriage feast, whereas the door is shut to the foolish virgins and they are left behind. (Matthew 25:10-11). 

Pulpit Commentary: "As (ver. 31) the angels are sent forth to gather the elect, the 'taken' are of this class, who are caught away to meet the Lord and his saints (1 Thessalonians 4:17; John 14:3), while the others are left for judgment and reprobation (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)." {10} 

Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath.

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,' described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak. How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. (Matthew 24:15-20).

The above passage does not signify that Jesus' reference to the Sabbath applies to unbelieving Jews. This will obviously be a tough flight for believers, especially for the vulnerable, such as pregnant and nursing mothers. If their flight were to coincide with the winter or the Sabbath, the difficulties will be compounded, hence Jesus' instruction to pray that it won't. Following the covenant the Antichrist makes with "many" and the reinstitution of animal sacrifices, it is conceivable that Sabbath limitations in Jerusalem/Judea will be enforced to a degree that conditions will be highly unfavourable for believers to undertake a flight to the mountains. (Daniel 9:27 cf. Luke 21:20). It is reasonable to assume that significant numbers of believers will flee Jerusalem/Judea following the abomination of desolation event when the Antichrist announces that he is "god". The ominous situation, combined with a limited window of opportunity to flee, and perhaps also a certain amount of panic, are not conducive with the restrictions imposed by the Jewish Sabbath. 

In conclusion..

The various accusations that Andy Woods has levelled against Robert Van Kampen regarding so called "illegitimate totality transfer" and grammatical errors, are, for the most part, invalid. Andy Woods has demonstrated throughout this series, that his own interpretive skills, whether by accident or by design, are highly questionable!

The timing of the rapture is supposedly a secondary issue that does not impact on the doctrine of salvation. If this is true, then the pre-trib camp's aggressive determination to foist their teaching onto the Body of Christ, and their constant habit of attacking those who disagree with them, is out of all proportion. Their teaching permeates every aspect of their worldview and political observations. My view is that the timing of the rapture is a critical question for believers due to the very real possibility of apostasy occurring as a result of the Antichrist's persecution. (Matthew 24:9-11). The pre-tribulation rapture fallacy is one of the biggest deceptions to blight the church in modern times. (Jeremiah 23:1). Technically pre-trib teachers are false prophets who pervert the critical warnings given to the church by Jesus Christ Himself. (Revelation 22:18-19; Proverbs 30:6). There will be consequences for those who teach this false doctrine! (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

1. The "Illegitimate Totality Transfer" Fallacy Illustrated - Ancient Hebrew Poetry (typepad.com)
2. Ephesians 4:30 Commentaries: Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (biblehub.com)
3. The First Resurrection ~ Timing Often Misunderstood | The Orange Mailman (wordpress.com)
4. Tregelles on Daniel (themillennialkingdom.org.uk)
5. Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a hoax, and here is why! (christianjournal.net)
6. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: WALVOORD MELTS ICE (II THESS. 2:3) BY DAVE MACPHERSON (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
7. Strong's Greek: 3880. παραλαμβάνω (paralambanó) -- to receive from (biblehub.com)
8. Strong's Greek: 863. ἀφίημι (aphiémi) -- to send away, leave alone, permit (biblehub.com)
9. Strong's Greek: 142. αἴρω (airó) -- to raise, take up, lift (biblehub.com)
10. Matthew 24 Pulpit Commentary (biblehub.com