TBCKAWAII: JACOB PRASCH CLOUD CUCKOO LAND AND OTHER ISSSUES

Jacob Prasch: Peering Out of Cloud Cuckoo Land in Midrash-Tinted Glasses from tbckawaii on Vimeo.

Prasch's habit of praying in Hebrew whilst attending Gentile congregations continues to wear very thin. Many people stopped being impressed by these embarrassing displays of vainglory a long time ago. (Philippians 2:3; Proverbs 11:2). Prasch's Hebrew outbreaks are not "speaking in tongues". In the book of Acts, every one spoke in other tongues "as the Spirit enabled them.." (Acts 2:6-11). Prasch does not have to seek God for an interpretation (1 Corinthians 14:13).

Prasch: "If I was going to have a remnant of people to prepare the way for the return of Christ.. and I was going to use these people to recognise the times in which they lived, I would come up with Canada, it is a lot more suitable than that pathetic individual I see when I am shaving or brushing my teeth.."   

I agree with tbckawaii.. this is an odd way of putting things. Prasch seems to be implying that he himself will prepare the remnant for the return of Christ? His more recent comparisons with the OT prophet Elijah seem to confirm his delusions of grandeur. {1}

Prasch: "We could have been born at any time in history." (he repeated this phrase at least three times). This statement is inconsistent with the scriptures. Without negating free will, our circumstances are in God's hands, there is no fatalism or chance involved in any aspect of our lives:

And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, (Acts 17:26-27 cf. Galatians 1:15; Jeremiah 1:5).

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown: "..and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation—The apostle here opposes both Stoical Fate and Epicurean Chance, ascribing the periods and localities in which men and nations flourish to the sovereign will and prearrangements of a living God." {2}

Matthew Poole: "Hath determined the times. &c.: the apostle asserts the providence of God against these Athenian philosophers, that nothing comes by chance, or a fatuitous concourse of atoms; but that God is in every thing, though men know it not, or rather will not consider it, Job 7:1 14:5,14. This doctrine was preached by Moses, who tells the people, that God is their life, and the length of their days, that they might love him, and obey his voice, and cleave unto him, Deu 30:20." {3}

tbckawaii has noticed that every statement Prasch makes about his ethnicity is vague, and that his Jewish ancestry is not specific but implied. That may be true in recent times, but on occasion Prasch has been explicit about his Jewish ancestry:

Prasch: "I have two first names - James and Jacob. When I was a baby they called me James. It was Anglicised from my grandfathers name, Ya'kov - Jacob. It is good that I have two first names because my family is a combination of two backgrounds - Irish Catholic and Jewish." {4}

Where I differ with twbckawaii and some others is the question of the apostate denominations. Much of what I write exposes the departure from orthodoxy of the "professing" church. It is no small matter that all the main denominations are ecumenical, having compromised with the RC church. {5} In addition, many supposed "evangelical" churches are tainted by the NAR, Dominion Theology, Calvinism, Charismania etc. Without exception, the main denominations, and also many of those who claim to be "evangelical" are steeped in false teachings. (Acts 20:29-30; Matthew 7:14-15, 24:11). Wycliffes "Islamacized" bibles have many problematic elements e.g. "Wycliffe is removing references to God as 'Father' and substituting terms such as 'Lord' - 'Guardian' - 'Most High' - and worst of all, 'Allah.'" {6} I do not dispute that there are some sound churches out there, but in my experience they are a rarity. I also do not dispute that there are genuine Christians inside apostate denominations, but my firm view is that they should pull out as we approach the New World Order and the one world religion. (Revelation 18:4).

Both Jesus and John the Baptist were indisputably opposed to the corrupt Jewish leadership i.e. the Pharisees and Sadducees (Matthew 23:33-34; Matthew 3:7.) Jesus had compassion on the crowd because they were "harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd". (Matthew 9:36). Jesus' instructions to the people: "..do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice." (Matthew 23:3). Nevertheless the Jewish temple remained at the centre of worship and national identity in ancient Israel. The Law of Moses was observed at that time, including the temple sacrifices. (Luke 22-24). Jesus confirmed the temple as "my Father's house". "Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” (Luke 2:49). The temple skirmish: "How dare you turn My Father’s house into a marketplace!” Simeon and Anna the prophetess were righteous and devout, but they did not form part of the Jewish hierarchy. Nicodemus was confused by Jesus' teaching. (John 3:4). It is no surprise to find Simeon and Anna at the temple:

She (Anna) did not depart from the temple, worshipping with fasting and prayer night and day. And coming up at that very hour she began to give thanks to God and to speak of him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem. (Luke 2:37-38).

Finally, Prasch's supposed self denigration as "a miserable pathetic loser" is an accurate description of a person who consistently fails to walk in the Spirit and who does not abstain from the passions of the flesh: ..put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. (1 Peter 2:1,11; Titus 1:16). However, true believers should not see themselves in those terms. Paul referred to himself as "the worst of sinners" in the past tense. (1 Timothy 1:16 cf. Titus 3:3,11). "..though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief.." (1 Timothy 1:13). In ourselves we are nothing at all, but in Christ we have received mercy and blessing:

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. (1 Peter 2:9-10).

I respectfully submit that in our zeal to expose Jacob Prasch as a false teacher, which he most certainly is, we should ensure that we do not deviate from the scriptures. The scriptures are the key to exposing false teachers. (1 John 4:1).

1. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/jfb/acts/17.htm
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8gih99087c
3. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/poole/acts/17.htm
4. Jacob Prasch: Israel, The Church & The Jews 2008 page 263
5. https://www.oikoumene.org/en/member-churches
6. http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps/articles/?articleid=78433&blogid=5450

Fellowship Bible Chapel Fall Prophecy Conference Session 3 - Charles Cooper

2019 10 12 FBC Fall Prophecy Conference Session Three - Charles Cooper

The following observations on Session 3 are a follow up to my previous post regarding the final Session 5 Q&A, in which I took issue with a number of Cooper's assertions, including:

* The application of 1 Kings 17:14-16 to believers during the great tribulation.
* The apostasy of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 refers specifically to Israel.
* The cleansing of the church will occur before the great tribulation.
* The Antichrist will take his seat in "a holy place".
* Jesus' return with the armies of heaven (Revelation 19:14-15) will not include the resurrected saints.

My refutation of Cooper's skewed assertions can be found on: https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2019/10/fellowship-bible-chapel-fall-prophecy.html

At the beginning of Session 3, Cooper expressed some sympathy with his audience for "enduring" the length of his sessions (an hour and a half as against Alan Kurschner's one hour sessions). Indeed Cooper's habit of wandering off into all kinds of extraneous subjects and side issues does call for endurance!

Session 3 is described as "An an-depth look at the significance of the Seals and Bowls in relationship to the rapture, resurrection, and Day of the Lord."

During this session Cooper confirmed my previous suspicion that his "tradition" is probably Charismatic. Cooper: "In my tradition people stand up, clap, run round, they do things .."

Cooper: "Keep the main thing to the main thing. Don't get distracted into arguments that have nothing to do with the core values and beliefs of the (prewrath) position. This.. has hurt the pre-trib position... because you try to argue too many things that don't have a solid textual basis. It is unnecessary - it makes your position weak because you are arguing something that is tendential. It is the old theological noise.. 'how many angels can sit on the head of a pin'. What does that have to do with the timing of the Lord's return?" (3:00) Perhaps Cooper has not considered the possibility that the weakness of the pre-trib position necessitates frequent digressions into all kinds of unnecessary speculations. In other words, their recurrent deviations may be a deliberate ploy to distract attention away from "the main thing".

Ironically Cooper condemns pre-trib "novices" who do not articulate their position well. (5:30) We should remember that God created all of us with free will and that we in the west are privileged to live in a society that upholds freedom of expression. The abuse of freedom of expression does have some unpleasant consequences, but the alternative is dictatorship. At the present time we are obliged to endure "novices" who make uninformed judgements, though we may refute them. (Titus 1:9). Those who twist the scriptures will face eventual judgement. (2 Peter 2:3). In some sense we are all "novices". (1 Corinthians 13:12). The state of apostasy generally prevailing in the professing church necessitates a challenge, and that challenge falls upon faithful Christians outside the apostate denominations to make informed judgements on various dubious teachings. God is accessible to all the faithful, and every Christian has equal potential to minister for God. The doctrine of the "priesthood of believers" stands in opposition to the concept of a spiritual aristocracy or hierarchy within Christianity. All Christians are exhorted to "test the spirits". (1 John 4:1). 

Cooper claims that Jesus Christ is not going to ask you "What was your eschatology?" In saying this, he immediately relegates eschatology to a non essential subject. I would argue that understanding the timing of the return of Jesus Christ is essential in many key respects if Christians are to avoid being deceived as we approach the 70th week of Daniel. (Matthew 24:4,5,10). Jesus' rebuke to the Pharisees and Sadducees: "..you cannot interpret the signs of the times." (Matthew 16:3 cf. 1 Thessalonians 5:4).

Cooper states that eschatology will not ultimately matter. "What will have mattered is how you treated me as a fellow believer in Christ. The fact that we both believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, died and rose from the dead and is returning.. but you chose not to fellowship with me because of a theological difference on a point, that I think concerns God."

Cooper bemoans the animosity exhibited by the pre-trib camp against anyone who does not hold their view of the rapture. By calling it calling it "one little theological difference" (!!), Cooper grossly underestimates and de-emphasises the gravity of the pre-trib error. If it were such a small matter, then people like Alan Kurschner, Joe Schimmel etc. would not waste their time refuting it. I hold the same core beliefs about Jesus Christ as many pre-tribbers, and yet I believe that their error is lethal  i.e. lethal to the extent that it will lead many of its adherents to eventual apostasy! (Matthew 24:10). I could not attend a church that teaches pre-trib because in many cases their error frames the whole of their theology. A case in point is JD Farag, who made the insane accusation that anyone who attacks the pre-trib rapture is "satanic". {1} This is a classic case of calling good evil and evil good. (Isaiah 5:20). The scriptures tell us that divisions are unavoidable: for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. (1 Corinthians 11:19). At its source pre-trib is a satanic deception with not one verse of scripture to verify it. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14; 1 John 4:1). Although I would not deliberately subject or expose myself to the pre-trib error, I do have some sympathy for genuine believers who have been sucked into this deception. The "main thing" is not to put fellowship above truth as Cooper would have it; the "main thing" is to maintain sound doctrine. Those who persistently err in significant areas are to be avoided. (Romans 16:17). 

Pretrib Pastor J. D. Farag talking with Jan Markell and Amir Tsarfati said, 'This is not hyperbole. If it were not for the blessed hope of the soon return of Jesus Christ in the [imminent, pretrib] rapture…I would go literally insane. I would lose my mind. [Amir Tsarfati interjects and says, 'I wouldn’t live.'] I would not be able to handle what my eyes see – the evil and the darkness is such that the likes of which we have never seen in human history'" {2}

Referring to the hostility between pre-trib and prewrath believers, Cooper stated: "There is going to come a day when we are going to need one another." (7:50) When might that day be? If he is referring to persecution during great tribulation, I assume that he does not attribute the apostasy of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 to pre-trib believers (amongst others). Indeed, during Session 5, he made the unaccountable assertion that he attributes the apostasy to Israel.

And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. (Matthew 24:10-13).

Cooper's paraphrase of Revelation 6:10: "God when are you going to get down there and start kicking butt for what they did to us?" (14:00).

Revelation 6:10: They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

These kind of cheap remarks devalue the terrifying events of Revelation. Teachers especially need to show a proper respect for God's Holy Word. (1 Peter 5:3).

I have great difficulty with Cooper's assertion that the Antichrist will take his seat in "a holy place". (1:24) My understanding is that the unveiling of the Man Of Lawlessness will be in the rebuilt third Jewish Temple on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem at the midpoint of the 70th week of Daniel (2 Thessalonians 2:3,4). As far as I am aware, the third temple will be an ecumenical centre and will be located near or actually on the plot presently occupied by the Dome of the Rock. As such, I cannot see how the temple where the Antichrist takes his seat can possibly be holy.. although no doubt it will be known as "holy".

..who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

ναὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ = temple of God or temple of a god.

“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (ἐν τόπῳ ἁγίῳ) (Matthew 24:15).

According to Cooper, the Antichrist will not take his seat at the location of the temple of old i.e. the site of Solomon's temple, but "in the only holy place in existence right now - Mount Zion." 

I stand to be corrected, but I am not at all convinced that physical Mount Zion is a holy place at the present time?

In the book of Revelation, Jerusalem is described symbolically as Sodom and Egypt. (Revelation 11:8).

For Christians, a physical place of worship is not a necessary requirement. In the book of Hebrews, Zion is considered as a type of the church.(Hebrews 12:18). 

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, (Hebrews 12:22). 

But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation). (Hebrews 9:11).

When Jesus returns, He will rule over the entire earth during the millennial kingdom from Zion. (Joel 3:17-21; Zechariah 14:8-9, 20-21; Revelation 20:4-6).

As Christians we anticipate the heavenly Jerusalem that descends from heaven.." a new heaven and a new earth."

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Revelation 21:1-2).

1. https://youtu.be/d4R7wHuOtmM  
2. https://www.alankurschner.com/2019/04/23/pretrib-pastor-says-he-would-go-literally-insane-if-it-were-not-for-the-imminent-rapture-video/

FELLOWSHIP BIBLE CHAPEL FALL PROPHECY CONFERENCE Q&A: CHARLES COOPER CONCERNS

2019 10 12 FBC Prophecy Session Five - Cooper, Kurschner, Haller and Clapham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXJKrPqYIUc

As a prewrath proponent, I had very high hopes of this conference at Fellowship Bible Chapel in Ohio. The speakers were Alan Kurschner, Charles Cooper, Mike Clapham and John Haller. Alan Kurschner is something of a prewrath expert and the go-to person on this subject. I have only recently heard of Charles Cooper and Mike Clapham. Charles Cooper is described as ".. an author, lecturer and church consultant, and is also the founder and director of the Prewrath Resource Institute of Orlando, FL" {1}

I am concentrating this post on Session Five, i.e. the Q&A session at the end of the Prophecy Conference. Sadly, the session was rather badly managed with Cooper dominating the panel discussion with questionable eisegeses and various lapses into extraneous anecdotes. It would have been better to have had more input from the other speakers.

Cooper answered the first question (paraphrased for clarity): "What physical preparations should Christians make for the great tribulation?" Cooper on provisions: "If you only have one cupful of meal in a barrel, God will refill that cup every day.. While " ..nothing will be impossible with God (Luke 1:37), there is no indication in the scriptures that the word of Elijah the prophet for a specific situation in the OT will be applicable to Christians during the great tribulation. (1 Kings 17:14-16; Romans 8:35). Cooper: "The only thing you are going to need is a bible." Cooper went on to say that Christians would need a bible made of a material such as leather or plastic that would not easily be destroyed by water or heat. I do not know that such an item exists. These irrational remarks set the tone for Cooper's further questionable responses during the session.

Cooper completely dismissed the question about the identity of the Restrainer (2 Thessalonians 2:4). (7:45). I do not think that the identity of the Restrainer should be a point of contention, with one proviso. When various teachers insist that the Restrainer is the Holy Spirit, there are ramifications. This view forms an important part of the pre-trib argument and it has also been utilised by Jacob Prasch to form part of his flawed intra-seal theory.

Cooper identified the apostasy of 2 Thessalonians 2:3, not to the professing church, but specifically to Israel. (14:00). Cooper: "Professing people cannot commit apostasy." This sounds like the 'once saved always saved' error. Apostate Israel does not make sense within the context of Matthew 24:9-12. In context Jesus spoke about the persecution and martyrdom of his followers. Matthew 24:10. And then (at that time) many will fall away.. Matthew 24:12: ".. the love of most will grow cold. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved." (Matthew 13:21, 57). Revelation 12:13-14 tells us that the dragon (Satan) will persecute the woman (Israel), that a remnant will flee and will be nourished and protected for 3.5 years in the wilderness i.e. the period of the great tribulation. Zechariah 13:8-9: In the whole land, declares the LORD, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive. (cf. Jeremiah 30:7). If one third of the Jews are protected in the wilderness (Petra?), and two thirds perish, then who amongst the Jews are left to apostatize? In any event, how can unconverted Jews apostatize from something they have never believed in?

Cooper stated that the cleansing of the church will occur before the great tribulation! (22:00). When Cooper refers to "the church", he includes the apostate church, which he claims will be drastically reduced prior to the tribulation. However, the scriptures state that apostasy will increase in the last days. (Matthew 24:12; 1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; Revelation 3:14-22).

Regarding the third temple: I agree with the literal interpretation of the third temple. (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15). Cooper: "If Antichrist takes his seat in a place and desecrates it, it has to be holy because God makes it holy.. When Antichrist takes his seat, he is going to take a seat in a holy place, and the only way it can be holy is that God makes it so." (33:00).  My problem with this view is that since the third temple is not divinely sanctified, then how can it be holy prior to the point when the Antichrist takes his seat there? From what I gather, the third temple will be ecumenical.. is this not a desecration, and is not the Dome of the Rock a desecration of the Temple Mount? The glory of the LORD came on Solomon's temple. (2 Chronicles 5:13-14 cf. Exodus 40:35; Zechariah 8:3). A principal theme in the book of Ezekiel is the departure and eventual return of God's glory to Jerusalem. Stephen proclaimed the truth that God no longer dwells in temples made with hands (Acts 7:48). Coopers statements are very confusing on this subject.

Regarding Jesus' return with the armies of heaven (Revelation 19:14-15) Cooper: "I am not convinced at all that the bride accompanies Him at that event.. I think the bride comes down in the New Jerusalem.. I don't think she descends with Him coming to do battle.." Cooper does not recognise the relevance of the "bride to armies" metaphors. (46:00).

There are problems with this view:

After the rapture, the glorified saints will always be with the Lord:

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. (Revelation 19:14). This verse follows the description of the Bride in Revelation 19:8: ..it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. 

Cambridge Bible: "fine linen, white and clean] The dress of Angels in St Matthew 28:3 and parallels, Acts 1:10; but of Saints in this Book, Revelation 3:4, Revelation 7:9, and probably Revelation 4:4 : compare the almost exactly similar words of Revelation 19:8." {2}

The "bride to armies" metaphors are not inexplicable actually - the bride is often referred to in terms of an army as per the following examples:

Ephesians 6:10-17 - ..put on the full armour of God..
Romans 13:12 - So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armour of light.
2 Corinthians 10:4 - For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.

1 Timothy 6:12 - Fight the good fight of the faith..  

I won't go into Cooper's opinions about the mark of the beast. (48:30). However, Mike Clapham made an interesting observation earlier on in the session about the apostasy of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (10:30) i.e. that kai (and) links the man of lawlessness with the apostasy: For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.. I agree that there is a connection between the apostasy and the man of lawlessness, but unless I am mistaken, the scriptures indicate that the mark of the beast occurs later than the mid point of the 70th week. The message of the third angel of Revelation 14:6-9 warns people of the consequences of worshipping the beast and its image and receiving the mark. This indicates that the mark is not yet compulsory? The time line indicates that prior to the third angels warning, the false prophet deceives those who dwell on the earth by performing great signs. After the people are deceived by the signs, the false prophet instructs them to make an image for the beast. The third element, the mark i.e. the name of the beast or the number of its name, appears to coincide with the image of the beast. It is unlikely that the angels proclamation of the gospel worldwide, and the third angels dire warnings about worshipping the beast and its image, and taking the mark are made ex post facto. I have gone into this scenario more thoroughly elsewhere and I have inserted two links at the end of this post.

During the prayer at the end of the session, Cooper decided to rebuke cancer in a woman's liver (I gather that it was a woman attending the conference). He went on to rebuke Satan himself and commanded the cancer to withdraw. (1:22). I do not doubt that the Lord heals, but I have seen too much of this sort of thing in the Pentecostal/Charismatic churches and I have become jaded by all the drama. (Jude 1:9).

I am rather troubled by the sloppy interpretations of Charles Cooper. I associate faulty eisegeses on this level with charismania. My concern is that others will also pick up on these problems and that the prewrath position will be impeded. Prewrath has hitherto been blessed with careful exegeses from Robert Van Kampen, Marvin Rosenthal, Alan Kurschner and others.

1. https://www.alankurschner.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Prewrath-Conference-2019.pdf
2. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/19-14.htm

The Mark Of The Beast:
https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2019/01/the-mark-of-beast.html
https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2019/02/the-mark-of-beast-two-witnesses.html

JACOB PRASCH: SMOKE AND MIRRORS!

Prasch: "..the angel of the Lord is the Metatron, and we know that's the Messiah, we know that's Jesus".



Whether fake Jew Jacob Prasch's problems as a serial liar are due to mental illness or demonic activity I cannot say. In any event, Prasch does need to be exposed as a very dangerous false teacher.. and now that this Metatron lie has surfaced, I hope and pray that his remaining followers will take heed at long last.

Prasch’s teaching in September on the Metatron was recorded at Community Church of Devore. How many Orthodox Jews need converting there? It is a stretch to say that this teaching was for evangelistic purposes.. it was delivered to a western non-Messianic congregation.

I can verify Frank Rogers' findings that the phrase "middle of the throne" is not found in the Old Testament book of Isaiah at all! Prasch's claim that this phrase is found in Isaiah 5:6 is completely false:

I will make it a waste;
it shall not be pruned or hoed,
and briers and thorns shall grow up;
I will also command the clouds

that they rain no rain upon it.

(Isaiah 5:6)

The context of Isaiah 5:1-7 is The Song of the Vineyard (cf. Luke 13:6-9).
Israel is the Lord's vineyard. 
Isaiah 5:2 refers to "the middle of the vineyard".  

" I built a watchtower in the MIDDLE.." = μέσῳ (mesō) (Isaiah 5:2)

Prasch accuses his critics of ignorance, and he claims that mesō (μέσῳ) is a synonym for meta (μετά).

The preposition μετά = with, among, after or beyond.. {1}  

The adjective/neuter noun μέσῳ = middle, in the midst (every occurrence). {2} 

Revelation 4:5 has neither μετά or μέσῳ, rather the Greek text says θρόνου ενωπιον = "before the throne."

From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God, (Revelation 4:5).

Revelation 4:6 refers to four living creatures in the middle (μέσῳ) of the throne:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/4-6.htm

The only verses in Revelation that refer to μέσῳ/μέσον τοῦ θρόνου in relation to Jesus Christ are Revelation 5:6 (μέσῳ) and Revelation 7:17 (μέσον). {3} The adjective μέσος, η, ον denotes location. Jesus Christ is literally located in the middle of the throne. The adjective μέσῳ is not a synonym for the preposition μετά.

And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. (Revelation 5:6).

Pulpit Commentary: "The repetition of 'in the midst' is a Hebraism (cf. Genesis 1:4, 6, 7, LXX.)." {4}

THE CONTEXT!

Wesley's Notes: "5:6 And I saw - First, Christ in or on the midst of the throne; secondly, the four living creatures making the inner circle round him; and, thirdly, the four and twenty elders making a larger circle round him and them.." {5} 

1. https://biblehub.com/greek/3326.htm
2. https://biblehub.com/greek/meso__3319.htm
3. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5-6.htm
4. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/revelation/5.htm
5. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/wes/revelation/5.htm

FURTHER INFORMATION:

The Appeal and danger of Moriel - Michael Rogers from Closingstages.net
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaTqaYtHz5M&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3Eesd2xhgB0abQiNhCRjoyzeOK6l0NBvnkY6Me1nr6STgpfpaZ-C4ag1c

MORIEL STATEMENT: JACOB PRASCH & MORIEL DISASSOCIATION FROM BILL RANDLES

Below is a statement dated the 14th of October from Moriel Ministries regarding Jacob Prasch's disassociation from Bill Randles.

Firstly to the genuine brethren and sisters that I have engaged with I thank you for your prayers and petitions on behalf of Jacob and Moriel. You have shown the true Faith in maturity and Trust in The Lord Jesus and knowing the difference by Godly Discernment. The last days are upon us and only those with true insight [discernment] will have understanding.[Dan.12:10]

I fully appreciate it when folk who are not privy to prior correspondence and communications are suddenly confronted with news of a schism between brethren who formerly stood shoulder to shoulder against the heresies confronting the modern church, and who had hitherto been friends. Both are held in high esteem by many of us, both are loved by many of us.

The decision by the Moriel Board to disassociate from Bill Randles was painful and not taken lightly. It was not the decision of Jacob Prasch alone. Moriel had long endorsed and cooperated with Bill Randles, and as similarly transpired with David Nathan, there was widespread concern over what they were teaching [DN] and promoting[BR] and understandable objection to Moriel's association with it.

By way of fact, the near collapse of Bill Randles' church in the USA that saw the resignation of all but one of his elders, his secretary, and the mass departure of members, many of whom had been with him over 25 years was something that took place well before any disagreements Moriel had with Bill Randles and transpired without any reference to, or involvement of Jacob Prasch or Moriel. These things happened on the ugliest of terms, but Moriel or Jacob Prasch were not involved in any of it.

The issues surrounding Bill Randles are broad, they precede, and go beyond the forced reaction of Moriel. Neither has the subsequent decline of Bill Randles' international ministry been in any way precipitated by or involve Moriel. The decisions of Bill Randles' videographer to resign from Bill's church, the loss of his financial sponsor for trips to Australia and New Zealand, and the loss of GCR TV - his largest YouTube platform, were all decisions of their own taken in response to the new direction Bill Randles has embarked upon.

Jacob Prasch & Moriel had nothing to do with these decisions by them to withdraw from further involvement or support of Bill Randles. It was purely his actions and their response.

Moriel & Jacob Prasch agree with Bill Randles' public labelling of David Nathan as being heretical. The video documented false teachings of David Nathan cannot be described as otherwise and Bill Randles was and is correct on this point. Moriel was therefore left perplexed by Bill Randles public attack on Jacob Prasch in support of those who were promoting the very same David Nathan that Bill Randles had called 'heretical'.

Moriel is also left perplexed by Bill Randles' recent itinerary in Australia with a figure he invited and promoted in his pulpit who propounds the view that the Two Witnesses of The Book of Revelation Chapter 11 are the 2 angels who rescued Lot in Genesis and are God The Father and God The Holy Spirit who must come in human form as Christ did, and be killed in Jerusalem. This figure has recently re-enforced this view in a 2019 video on 'Angels'. While Bill Randles admits this teaching to be false, he hosted this false teacher in his church and still partners with him, and did so only a matter of weeks ago.

Bill Randles likewise admits that the lunatic fringe false teacher Craig White whom Bill Randles also had in his pulpit teaches serious error. Yet White's material remains on Bill Randles internet platform. Meanwhile, Bill Randles' representative in New Zealand propounds the false teaching that the prophecy of Revelation chapter 12 with the Woman & Stars, The Manchild, and the dragon & serpent were fulfilled 23rd September, 2017 because 'The Moon was in Virgo".

It has been one episode after another. The Bill Randles we knew at one time would have been the first to oppose error and those who disseminate it. Now he promotes those who propagate what Bill Randles himself admits is false doctrine. Bill Randles' denunciation of the pastor of a local Calvary Chapel, to whom many of the ex-flux of refugees from his church went and sought a new home, as a 'psychopath' was in our view slanderous and defamatory.

Misplaced notions that Jacob Prasch is a heresy hunter are ridiculous. These errors are propagated in the public domain and their promoters are promoting Bill Randles who until recently was promoted by Moriel and endorsed by Jacob Prasch. The Moriel Board was left with no viable choice but to do as the majority of church and other ministry partners have done and disassociate from Bill Randles. Moriel desired or initiated none of this. It is almost unbelievable to us that someone of the calibre of Bill Randles' has gone the way he has.

A few, unable to deny the factual basis of Moriel's actions have instead resorted to the ad hominem response of charging that Jacob Prasch is harsh in his manner in confronting the proponents of error and their promoters. We can only respectfully suggest that those espousing such a view read the words of Jesus in Matthew 23 or the diatribes and polemics of The Hebrew prophets. Is their problem with Jacob Prasch or rather with The Word of God?

Like Bill Randles, Jacob Prasch battles with issues of health; specifically Lymphatic Oedema causing non dietary obesity. To function Jacob is reliant on certain meds, one of which has the side effect of oral dehydration affecting salvia secretion. He is not 'foaming at the mouth' but battling a disease. Such personal attacks only evade the factual and doctrinal issues.

With Blessings in Jesus,

MORIEL (SA)
PSALM 121

A brief observation concerning the last paragraph:

I have done a little Internet research on the subject of lymphatic oedema as the cause of non dietary obesity, and this is not the case. There are a number of causes for lymphatic oedema, obesity being one of them in the case of secondary lymphatic oedema. Obese people suffering from lymphatic oedema are advised to lose weight as it is an aggravating factor. Prasch's penchant for changing facts is truly astonishing!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4393748/
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lymphoedema/causes/

In 2017, Prasch blamed his obesity on "lymphatic fluid" in a video 'The Sin of Gluttony' {1} Once again Prasch distorts the medical facts:

NHS: "People who are obese, particularly those who are severely obese, have an increased risk of developing swollen body parts. It's not clear exactly why this is, but it's been suggested that the extra fatty tissue affects the lymphatic channels in some way, reducing the flow of fluid through them. In these cases, weight loss is an important part of treatment and even just starting to lose weight can make a big difference to the swelling." {2}

Prasch says correctly that gluttony is addressed as a serious sin in the scriptures (albeit that he falsely excludes himself), and he has previously made a passing reference to Bill Randles' obesity. Randles hypocrisy has been discussed by Mike Rogers on Closingstages: "..when you have a morbidly obese man telling you that you may not be saved because you drink or smoke pot the entire message becomes void and ineffective."{3} In particular, what kind of witnesses are morbidly obese pastors or elders i.e. those who are supposedly examples to the church (and the world)? (1 Peter 5:3).

..their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. (Philippians 3:19). 

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Corinthians 9:7).

Ellicott's Commentary: "..to the subduing of the appetites and passions which are located in it (the body). The true position of our natural appetites is that they should be entirely our servants, and not our masters; that we 'should not follow or be led by them,' but that they should follow and be led by us." {4}

UPDATE

There have been a lot of rumours going around about the situation at Bill Randles church, but nothing concrete. A previous member of Believers in Grace, Sergio Mariani, part of Randles media team, has now made a public statement. Sergio's statement corresponds with my own very unpleasant interaction with the Randles. {5}

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sqeoS3AxvI&t=571s
2. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lymphoedema/causes/
3. https://closingstages.net/2019/09/06/bill-randles-twists-and-turns-eisgese/
4. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_corinthians/9-27.htm
5. http://moriel.org/latest/latest-news/sergio-mariani-statement-on-bill-randles-oct-13-2019.html

JACOB PRASCH MORIEL MINISTRIES: THE METATRON HERESY

Prasch sinks further into false teaching and heresy, recently referring to the Metatron as Jesus Christ on YouTube: Jacob Prasch -The Metatron.{1} This is one of the most convoluted teachings I have heard from Prasch, probably deliberately so in order to confuse his hearers. 

The Metatron is described as an angelic being in the Babylonian Talmud, in various other mystical writings and in the apocryphal books of Enoch. In these writings, it is said that after Enoch's translation (Genesis 5:24), that he was transformed into the angel Metatron. The Greek Meta+Tron translates Beyond+Matrix. The Metatron is referred to as "Lesser YHVH" in a version of the Talmud by the Karite scholar Kirkisani. Jewish myths are condemned in the New Testament - as such Christians should completely avoid such teachings:

Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. (Titus 1:13-14 cf. 1Timothy 1:4; 2 Timothy 4:4).

Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. (Colossians 2:18-19).

A warning from Compelling Truth:

"Metatron is at best a legend, and at worst, a deception—there is no reason to believe he exists. The Bible never mentions him, and the descriptions of Metatron in the mystical writings do not agree with the biblical descriptions of angels. The Bible tells us not to pursue 'godless myths and old wives' tales' but to instead train ourselves in godliness (1 Timothy 4:7 NIV). Furthermore, the worship of angels is associated with asceticism and false visions, and is opposed to the worship of Christ (Colossians 2:18-19)." {2}

In fact this is not a new heresy from Prasch after all! He referred to "the Metatrone" as "the Lord Jesus" four times in his book 'Harpazo' (2014) (pages 11, 135, 271, 357).

Prasch:"As no one can see God and live, (Ex.33:20), God would therefore appear in a human form as a 'Christophany', often as 'The Angel of the Lord' or Ha Malach Adoni (known as the Metatrone in Judaism). This is the Lord Jesus." (emphasis mine). {3}

Jacob Prasch's references to 'Metatrone' in 2014 book 'Harpazo' from tbckawaii on Vimeo.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CMj7j42kBk&t=14s

2. https://www.compellingtruth.orjjg/Metatron.html

3. PRASCH, JJ., 2014, Harpazo: The Intra-Seal Rapture of the Church, ed. Moriel Ministries. page 357. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Harpazo-Intra-Seal-James-Jacob-Prasch-ebook/dp/B00OEA3T28

THE ARROGANCE OF BILL AND KRISTIN RANDLES

Bill Randles breaks the scriptures by his insistence on being called "Pastor Bill".

Reading the New Testament, I notice that even the apostles were known and were referred to primarily by their personal names. They sometimes referred to themselves as "servant of Jesus Christ", and they followed their name with their calling as "an apostle" small a.

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God (2 Corinthians 1:1).
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God.. (Romans 1:1).
Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, (Philippians 1:1).

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, (1 Peter 1:1).
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, (James 1:1)

Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, (Jude 1:1).
One afternoon Peter and John were going up to the temple at the hour of prayer.. (Acts 3:1).

The scriptures are clear enough surely:

For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6and they love the place of honour at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others. But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. (Matthew 23:5-11).

I let Bill Randles first fallacious ad hominem remark pass when he called me a "feminist" on TBCKAWAII's video - Prasch Lynching Bill Randles {1} I simply responded by asking the question: Where is your evidence?

Predictably, Randles has now followed up his first insult by labelling me an "abusive reviler" along with others. {2}  Once again: Where is your evidence Bill Randles.. are you attempting to pass off ad hominem remarks as acceptable Christian practice? Once again, you break the scriptures by making accusations you are not prepared to back up with specific examples and facts. (2 Corinthians 13:1).

I have left a response on Randles recent blog post.. but I doubt that he will he publish it:

  
"I do object to being labelled a "very abusive railer" Bill.. you need to retract this insult? This is the second time you have made a false accusation against me, "feminist" being the first time.. I WOULD NOT DARE to make an accusation against a brother or sister in the Lord without citing the evidence! Do you forget that I have evidence of your wife's very abusive behaviour against David Nathan, albeit behind his back? As for Prasch's associations.. he is provably involved with proven false prophets/ecumenists David Noakes and Clifford Hill.. I do not think that you are a false teacher per se.. but you do seem to have some questionable associations and your arrogance is insupportable."

Having stated that Bill Randles is not a false teacher as far as doctrine is concerned, the personal behaviour of an elder/pastor is a critical factor for anyone in church leadership: Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers. (1 Timothy 4:16 cf. 1 Peter 2:1). Some translations have: Keep a close watch on your life and doctrine.. The Randles' habit of making unsubstantiated accusations and slandering their fellow believers is a very grave matter indeed, unacceptable in fact from people in their position.   

If I absolutely must expose a sample of the horrible behaviour of both Bill and Kristin Randles, then let it be so. The conversation I had with Kristin begs the question: Who actually is the reviler? I have not published this material previously because I wanted to spare David Nathan further pain. Please bear in mind that Kristin Randles said these things to me as a complete stranger.. I had no prior exchange with her prior to the communication below: 

  

Bill Randles responds to slander of Jacob Prasch and Moriel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jv8eJu3KbQ&t=215s
Bill Randles 2nd response to Moriel Board - Jacob Prasch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p74A2vFyG-o&feature=youtu.be

1. https://vimeo.com/345492408/comments?fbclid=IwAR373BDgexrFpmkg0QhXz8K9K6_NEwAw33PNTt0kRjPP6dZbPNtPWwG_rBU

2.  https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2019/10/08/to-the-moriel-board/