Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.You will recognize them by their fruits (Matthew 7/15-16)
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Showing posts with label Ecumenical Movement. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Ecumenical Movement. Show all posts
The aim of this post is to examine Charlie Kirk's faith and to compare some of his attitudes and beliefs to those found in the Bible. This post does not concern the conspiracy theories surrounding Kirk's murder.
Kirk was a "professing Christian", i.e., he claimed to be a Christian, he proclaimed the gospel accurately on a number of occasions, and he was generally considered to be a champion of biblical values. Many naive people assumed that Kirk was an authentic Christian. However, there were significant issues contained within Kirk's theology that were incompatible with his profession.
Ecumenism
The essential criterion that marks out a true believer is that he/she keep God's word. If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15 cf. John 14:23-24; 1 John 5:3,2:3-5,3:22-24; 2 John 1:6; John 15:10,14. Matthew 7:21 etc.)
Kirk attended Dream City Church in Phoenix, Arizona, where he worshiped and hosted political rallies. Dream City Church (formerly Phoenix First Assembly of God) is a multi-site Pentecostal megachurch affiliated with the Assemblies of God USA.
Kirk also occasionally attended Mass at St. Bernadette Catholic Church in Scottsdale, Arizona, and openly acknowledged that he was ecumenical. He spoke about his respect for Roman Catholicism and the possibility of his conversion. In an interview reported by Crisis Magazine, he said: “Some of my greatest friends in the world are Catholic…I go to Catholic Mass every once in a while. I don’t take the Eucharist…but I’m open-minded, but I’m not there yet.”1
In an interview with Church Militant, Kirk said, "The world is a better place because of the Catholic Church, and that needs to be said more. He went on to express that he has 'so much respect for the Catholic Tradition and Church.'" 1
Kirk was, in fact, steeped in Roman Catholicism. Kirk's wife, Erica, was raised a Roman Catholic and attended Notre Dame Preparatory, a private Catholic high school in Scottsdale, Arizona. She is a practicing Roman Catholic, and it is reported that she attends Mass daily.2
Online pictures show the Kirks visiting the National Basilica in Washington, D.C., along with photos of Charlie Kirk attending Mass. Erika raised a rosary to onlookers as her husband's body was transported home.3 On a recent episode of his podcast, Kirk spoke about the "Blessed Mother" and mentioned how he was close to Father Don Kline, pastor of St. Bernadette Catholic Church in Scottsdale, Arizona, and how his wife was baptized Catholic.
EWTN: "During a July 16 episode of 'The Charlie Kirk Show' on “Real America’s Voice,” Kirk explained that he believes Protestants do not venerate or talk about Mary enough. He said she “is the solution” to “toxic feminism in America.”
“Mary was clearly important to early Christians,” Kirk said. “Have more young ladies be pious, be reverent, be full of faith, slow to anger, slow to words at times. Mary is a phenomenal example, and I think a counter to so much of the toxicity of feminism in the modern era.”4
Many evangelicals voiced concerns that these remarks were tantamount to a slide toward Roman Catholic tradition.While bible believing Christians respect Mary, she is not the answer to toxic feminism or anything else. To cross the line into the kind of "veneration" that verges on Mariolatry is sinful. In my view, Kirk blurred the lines, or was in the process of blurring the lines, between true biblical Christianity and its antithesis, Roman Catholic tradition. (2 Corinthians 11:4). In essence, ecumenism is a violation of the first commandment to prioritize God above all else. You shall have no other Gods before me. (Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 5:7; Matthew 22:36-38 cf. 2 Corinthians 11:14).
In a recent statement, Kirk's pastor at Turning Point USA, Rob McCoy, said, "Many Protestants, mainly Baptists and evangelicals, do not believe Catholics are Christians. If we are to learn anything from Charlie, it's to know Charlie did not believe this. Even though we have no evidence to show Charlie was on his way to the CC, Charlie very well believed practicing Catholics were Christians. And my encouragement to Baptists and evangelicals alike is to take this position as well."5
Mormons
Kirk: 'I love how Mormons send missionaries around the world, I love how polite they are.. Half my team is Mormon.. Mormons are great people.. I'm an evangelical Christian, but I'm not one of those guys that hates on Mormons.. We need a strong Mormon church back in this country.."6
Kirk claimed that he did not endorse Mormonism. However, he actively sought to get Mormons on board with his political agenda. The fact that Mormons send missionaries around the world indicates that they are spreading a false gospel. Why would the US "need a strong Mormon church" spreading a different gospel? (2 Corinthians 11:4).
New Apostolic Reformation > Dominion Theology
Kirk was involved with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), an aberrant movement that seeks to influence society through Dominionist Theology. Kirk made public statements promoting the NAR agenda, particularly the "seven mountain mandate," at events such as the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC). Kirk collaborated with prominent leaders within the NAR, such as Lance Wallnau, and he participated in the strategy to turn religious congregations into active participants in political campaigns, especially for candidates aligned with the "America First" agenda.7
"Right Wing Watch reported last week that Kirk had endorsed California congressional candidate Sean Feucht, a worship leader at Bethel megachurch and a favorite of dominionist 'apostles' and 'prophets.' It turns out that endorsement was the tip of the iceberg of Kirk’s partnership with a group of California-based pastors connected to Christian nationalist political operative David Lane."
The implications of Kirk's association with NAR leaders raises the critical issue of ecclesiastic separation of church and state. When dominionists conflate the kingdom of God and earthly power, they compromise the gospel. Jesus made a critical distinction between the kingdom of God and earthly dominion. Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” (John 18:36).
For Kirk, MAGA (Make America Great Again), and the goal of winning/maintaining political power over the Democrats took precedence over the command of biblical separation. The biblical mandate for believers to separate themselves from sin and worldly influences and to maintain holiness was entirely absent from Kirk's theology. (2 Corinthians 6:17; Romans 12:2; 1 John 1:6-7; Galatians 5:16; Ephesians 5:11).
Shabbat
Kirk strictly observed the Jewish Sabbath, Shabbat. In an interview, he recommended that Christians follow Shabbat, and he was due to publish a book on the subject, 'Stop, in the Name of God: Why Honoring the Sabbath Will Change Your Life', which is now scheduled to be published posthumously in December.
Kirk's teaching and book on this subject will undoubtedly influence Bible believers to observe Shabbat. However, the New Testament does not require believers to observe Shabbat or any Jewish Festival. Shabbat observance was a specific commandment to the Israelites, not to Gentiles.
The Israelites must keep the Sabbath, celebrating it as a permanent covenant for the generations to come. It is a sign between Me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.(Exodus 31:16-17).
Within Orthodox Judaism, any Gentile who observes Shabbat must be circumcised or be put to death. Circumcision was a practice that Paul vehemently opposed in New Testament churches. (Galatians 5:2).
"Rabbi Yose bar Hanina said: A gentile who keeps Shabbat before [i.e. without] accepting circumcision is liable for death. Why? Because they [gentiles] were not commanded in it. And why did you see fit to say that a gentile who keeps Shabbat is liable for death? R. Hiyya bar Abba said R. Yohanan said: in the normal way of the world, if a king and matron sit and converse with one another, one who comes and inserts himself between them – is he not liable for death? Similarly this Shabbat between Israel and the Holy One blessed be He, as it is said “between me and the Israelites [it is an eternal sign]” (Exod. 31:17). Therefore, any gentile who comes and inserts himself between them before accepting upon himself to be circumcised is liable for death."8
Kirk did not claim that it is obligatory to observe Shabbat. However, he extolled the benefits of doing so, and he presented persuasive arguments in favour of the practice. Paul is clear; if we want to observe days and years, then we are free to do so. However, we should not seek to influence others, and we should keep such matters between ourselves and God. Christians are not obliged to submit to Old Testament practices to gain particular blessings. Gentile believers alreadyhave every blessing in Christ. (Ephesians 1:3).
Interestingly, nine of the original ten commandments given in Exodus 20 are referenced in the New Testament. However, the fourth commandment regarding the Sabbath is not mentioned as a statute that Christians are obliged to keep. This is becauseJesus embodies the true rest and fulfillment of the Sabbath. So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his. (Hebrews 4:9-10).
Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? You observe days and months and seasons and years! I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain. (Galatians 4:8-10).
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17).
One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. (Romans 14:5-9).
The black community > divisive rhetoric
Although it is vociferously denied that Kirk was a racist by his supporters, there are clear examples that corroborate this allegation and confirm his damaging, racist remarks against black people.
Kirk frequently cast doubt on the qualifications of black professionals.. In 2024, he said, “If I see a black pilot, I’m gonna be like, boy, I hope he’s qualified.”
On one occasion, he referred to “a moronic black woman” in customer service and questioned whether she was hired “because of her excellence, or … because of affirmative action.” Kirk attacked civil rights leader Martin Luther King: “Clarence Thomas was a far better black role model to celebrate than Martin Luther King. Period. End of story. This guy is not worthy of a national holiday.” At Turning Point USA’s America Fest in 2023, Kirk said, "MLK was awful. We made a huge mistake when we passed the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s."
Kirk referred to journalist Joy Reid, former First Lady Michelle Obama, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, and Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson as “affirmative action picks", and he claimed they did not “have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously.”9 Kirk blamed a Black fire chief in Austin, Texas, for flooding deaths that occurred a three-hour drive away from the city.10
Kirk denounced Juneteenth as a federal holiday commemorating the end of slavery. Kirk: “Juneteenth should not be a federal holiday.. This holiday is not about celebrating emancipation, regardless of the veneer they put on it.”10
These remarks make sense when the roots and history of the NAR and its ties to Brahnamism, British Israelism, and the Ku Klux Klan are understood.
Collins: "William Branham's mentor was Roy E Davis.. the second in command of the 1915 KKK. Branham was working with not only Roy E Davis.. Davis was working with Caleb Ridley, who was the Klan's Supreme Religious Chaplain, and they were trying to establish, it was a short lived organization called the Supreme Kingdom, but they were trying to establish what today, you could almost say it was the prototype for today's Dominionism.They were trying to invade the government, the education system, the media, the entertainment industry.. Davis rose up to be the next Imperial Wizard of the Klan.. he is promoting Branham.." (40 minute mark)11
Appeasement to the Christian Right
This is not the time to capitulate under pressure from the powerful Christian right. Some surprising people have voiced their approval for Kirk.
If you have raced with men on foot, and they have wearied you, how will you compete with horses? And if in a safe land you are so trusting, what will you do in the thicket of the Jordan? (Jeremiah 12:5).
Below is a selection of viewer comments demonstrating that Good Fight's viewers have more courage and discernment than they do!
* I find this surprising to warn against his heresies that are so destructive. Can yall not see the eucumenical push to come from his death? I am very surprised yall hid the truth during such an important time. Its wild that this is a positive review of charlie and unlisting the video that pointed out the heresies he teaches that will lead many astray... Do yall not understand that many people are googling him and watching his stuff now and will fall into the seven mountain mandate?? Why not allow people to see the truth?
* Good fight: how devastating that you have deleted your vid confronting Charlie on his FALSE TEACHING about Co- redeemer Mary!!!!
How can we possibly TRUST YOU if you crumble under the pressure of Kirk suddenly becoming godhood in his martyrdom!!!
This new vid on Kirk is a GLOWING REPORT OF HOW GREAT HE IS!!!! it's DISAPPOINTING Seriously I'm so SURPRISED!!!
* Unsubscribed. I was very suspicious of you guys to begin with but now it’s confirmed. You do all of these videos on Freemasons yet you can’t see that Charlie Kirk is a Freemason and this was a club event to push propaganda and divide us further? Candace Owens said she’s a mason and one of her recent videos. She comes out and says it. They are all in the club. Maybe you are too.
Michael Grant is currently vacillating on the issue of Kirk's alleged faith. As a result, I have unsubscribed from his YouTube channel. The Faith of Charlie Kirk (1993-2025)
Watching Welby reap what he has sown is confirmation of God's ultimate sovereignty over every situation. (Proverbs 19:21). The old boy network did not save Welby, thank God. Thousands of members of the General Synod (the Church of England's parliament) signed a petition calling for Welby to step down following the damning report about the church's handling of John Smyth, who is believed to be the most prolific serial abuser associated with the CofE. I don't hold out much hope for the CofE, but perhaps this situation will cause some to truly repent. (2 Chronicles 7:14).
Welby was initially rejected for ordination by the Cof E and was told by John Hughes, the then Bishop of Kensington: “There is no place for you in the Church of England.”1Unfortunately, Welby persisted in his ill-conceived ambition and was supported by his ecumenical friends at Holy Trinity Brompton (HTB). Sandy Millar, Vicar of HTB, founder of the Alpha course, and his successor Nicky Gumbel are said to have profoundly influenced Welby’s ideas about Christianity and church growth.2 HTB introduced Charimania via the deadly "Toronto Blessing" to the UK in the 1990s.
Welby's misplaced support of women bishops has come back to bite him! Ironically, the most senior member of the CofE, Bishop of Newcastle Helen-Ann Hartley, called for Welby's resignation in the strongest terms, stating that he had “a complete lack of awareness of how power dynamics operate in the life of the church”. Hartley: “It is right that Archbishop Justin has resigned. This resignation does not solve the Church’s profound failure over safeguarding and the ongoing trauma caused to victims and survivors of church-related abuse nor does it excuse others whose neglect of their duties is exposed by the Makin report."3
Welby began his ill-fated role as Archbishop in 2013. Legislation allowing female bishops was passed by the General Synod of the CofE at the second attempt. The first attempt, in 2012, just before Welby took office, failed narrowly to meet the required supermajority. Welby hailed the achievement and oversees the appointments of the first swathe of female bishops in the coming years.
The insane state of affairs is that the head of the CofE denies his own denominational statement on marriage and sexual ethics. CofE doctrine states that "sexual intercourse, as an expression of faithful intimacy, properly belongs within marriage exclusively.” The doctrine of marriage, as set out in Canon B30 states that marriage is a lifelong union of “one man with one woman, to the exclusion of all others on either side”. Welby believes that sexual intimacy is not reserved for marriage and that sexual intimacy in same-sex relationships is not sinful. This is a clear deviation from CofE doctrine on marriage and sexual ethics, the Global Anglican Communion, the historic position of every other Christian denomination worldwide, and the scriptures. (Galatians 6:7).In April 2023, Conservative Anglican leaders at a conference in Rwanda declared they no longer recognized Welby’s authority as the "first among equals" and de facto head of the Anglican Communion. Among other things, they were angered by his support for gay blessings in the CofE.4
Welby's resignation statement ends: “For above all else, my deepest commitment is to the person of Jesus Christ, my saviour and my God; the bearer of the sins and burdens of the world, and the hope of every person.”5
Welby leaves a legacy of unfaithfulness and shame. He has made a mockery of the scriptures and has brought the gospel into disrepute. (2 Peter 2:2-11). The obvious question: How can anyone who blatantly disregards the scriptures possibly claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ?
Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the stream broke against it, immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.” (Luke 6:46-49).
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:21-23).
The Chosen is an American Christian drama TV multi-season series about the life and ministry of Jesus of Nazareth and stars Roman Catholic actor Jonathan Roumie as Jesus. A total of seven seasons are planned. Four seasons of the series have been released to date with the fifth season currently in production and expected to be released in 2025.1
Dallas Jenkins is the creator and director of The Chosen, the most successfully crowdfunded series of all time. Dallas Jenkins is the son of the son of Jerry B Jenkins, Tim LaHaye's co-writer behind the bestselling fictional "Left Behind" franchise of the 1990s. Unfortunately, the Left Behind series sparked renewed interest in the pre-tribulation rapture, a false doctrine that has blighted a number of dispensational churches in the West. Dallas Jenkins follows in his father's footsteps with his questionable depiction of Jesus Christ in this series.
Filming of The Chosen began on rental sets in Texas. However, Jenkins later accepted the offer of using a Jerusalem film set in Utah created by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons). Although popular, the series has been widely criticized on many levels, due to its association with its Mormon distributors Angel Studios; hiring LGBT members to work on the film set; its use of artistic license; and concerns that Jenkins was injecting Mormon theology into the script. These criticisms have been countered by Jenkins and others, but LDS involvement is impossible to deny, and evidently, Jenkins regards Mormons as Christians "despite some theological differences". In fact, these "differences" are irreconcilable! Jenkins has a flawed understanding of the gospel and is biblically illiterate.
Jenkins: "..beautiful things about this project have been my growing brother and sisterhood with people of the LDS community that I never would have known otherwise. And learning so much about your faith tradition and realizing, gosh, for all the stuff maybe we don't see eye to eye on, that all happened.. after Jesus was here. The stories of Jesus we do agree on and we love the same Jesus.."2
Jesse T Jackson: "Angel Studios was co-founded by brothers Neal and Jeffrey Harmon, both whom belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS), which has caused confusion for some fans of the show. Angel Studios is strictly a distribution partner for the show and doesn’t fund the show, according to Jenkins. Rather, 'The Chosen' is 100 percent funded by viewers."3
Jeffrey Harmon: "I am a faithful member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (we don’t use 'Mormon' anymore). And I have devoted the last three years of my life to helping an Evangelical, Dallas Jenkins, create his vision of the hit TV Series, THE CHOSEN. I have no control over the content of the show."4
LDS Irreconcilable "theological differences"
A brief summary of LDS theology:
The Book of Mormon is the word of God (they actually have four sources of doctrine but the Book of Mormon takes precedence).
Salvation is only found through the Mormon church.
Jesus is a created being.
All people ever born, including Jesus Christ, lived with God as His spirit children before this life.
Jesus is the "spirit brother" of Lucifer.
Jesus was a married man.
"As man now is, God once was" God was once a man who existed on another planet, and through obedience he "progressed" into being the God of his own planet. You and I can also become gods of our own planet and progress through obedience.
God the Father and Jesus Christ are two distinct beings; each is a distinct personage with His own perfect glorified body.
Mormons believe that we "progress" into our godhood in the same way that God progressed and became God of planet Earth.
We are saved by grace after we have done all that we can.
"All denominations are an abomination." Mormons believe they are the only ones that have the truth, all other denominations are apostate.
Joseph Smith wrote himself into Genesis 50 and added a prophecy about himself.5
Jenkins' "theological differences" are far more critical than his allusion suggests. LDS theology fundamentally denies the scriptures and should be absolutely rejected by bible believing Christians. Similarly, those who promote LDS teachings should not be included in any project claiming to represent Jesus Christ. (Ephesians 5:11).
A different Jesus
Jenkins claims that his life goal is to portray the "authentic Jesus". However, the "Jesus" of The Chosen is inauthentic and is a lethal departure from the scriptures. The ecumenical appeal of The Chosen with its acceptance of multi-faith traditions including Mormons and Roman Catholics is extremely dangerous! Ecumenism always involves compromise! The Chosen has put many people at risk of accepting a different Jesus. (2 Corinthians 11:4).
Religion News Service: “The Chosen has a biblical advisory council, made up of representatives of various faith traditions.. YouTube videos show Jenkins hosting roundtables with a Protestant theologian, a Catholic priest and a Jewish rabbi, addressing 'the red flags' that might be raised by the show."6
The Catholic World Report: "The show also retains a sort of advisory board of ministers—a priest, a rabbi, and a Protestant minister—to help the creators with theological issues and other questions."7
Shane Cox, administrator of The Chosen: Do Not Be Deceived Facebook group and the Point2TheWord YouTube channel, has posted shockingly unbiblical clips from The Chosen, and interview clips with The Chosen’s director Dallas Jenkins and cast members.
Below are some clips representing unbiblical examples in The Chosen.
This information should raise major red flags amongst bible believing Christians.
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
"Leighton Flowers VS James White: The John 6:44 Debate | Does John 6:44 Teach Unconditional Election?"
Got Questions definition of unconditional election: "God, before the foundation of the world, chose to make certain individuals the objects of His unmerited favor or special grace. These individuals from every tribe, tongue and nation were chosen by God for adoption, not because of anything they would do but because of His sovereign will. God could have chosen to save all men (He certainly has the power and authority to do so), and He could have chosen to save no one (He is under no obligation to save anyone). He instead chose to save some and leave others to the consequences of their sin."1
James White's theological debates include Calvinism, Roman Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism, infant baptism, the King James Only movement, Jehovah's Witnesses, and atheism. White has described Leighton Flowers as a "one-string banjo" referring to what he describes as his "obsessive" mission against Calvinism. Flowers attempted to make the debate more light-hearted by giving White a gift of a one-string banjo. However, at the end of the debate, White refused to accept it. White's "one string banjo" quip was doubtless thrown out as an insult, but Flowers apparent approval of other false doctrines is odd. For my part, I am unable to reconcile Flowers hyper-focused fight for truth in one aspect (Calvinism), and his apparent approval of error in another (ecumenism). (Acts 20:27). I was so troubled by this disconnect in 2018 that I have not paid him much attention since that time.
Below is an excerpt from my previous post in 2018:
"One would expect Flowers to have a bible verse on the 'Our Beliefs' page of his website, but his primary text is a quotation from AW Tozer! In fact there are many scripture references, but no actual bible quotations on this page at all.
I notice that Flowers also frequently quotes CS Lewis in his videos. Both CS Lewis and AW Tozer were ecumenists and closet mystics. As I look down the list of non-Calvinistic scholars Flowers lists as reading material, I am very troubled indeed. For example, he lists false teachers such as ecumenist Billy Graham, false deliverance teacher Derek Prince, ecumenist Greg Laurie, open theist and annihilationist Clark Pinnock, ecumenist Ravi Zacharias, ecumenist David Jeremiah.. I could go on.. and on... This tells me that Calvinism is not the only serious problem that needs to be addressed within the Southern Baptist denomination. The ecumenical movement is THE biggest threat to biblical Christianity in our time, and yet inexplicably, Flowers actively promotes ecumenical teachers and apostates on his website!"2
The Debate
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— (John 6:37-45).
White: "Has the historical understanding of John chapter 6 since the Reformation.. is that a proper reading of the text?" This opening question was very telling in that it indicates that White's presuppositions are inhibited by his Calvinistic tradition.
White opened by emphasizing that there is no break or contradiction in verse 44 i.e. the group drawn by the Father is the same group that is raised up on the last day, namely the Jews who had been drawn by the Father via the prophets. Based on his understanding of John 6:44, White's view is that no distinction exists between the (passive recipients ?) being drawn by the Father, those being taught, those hearing and those learning in verse 45.
Flowers opened by identifying God as the initiatorand the hearers as the responders. His position is that the Jewish crowd in John 5:43 rejected God due to their own fault because they were unwilling. (31:00 mark) In contrast, White's presupposition from Calvin (originally Augustine) is that sinful people reject God bydefault. Flowers also quoted Calvinist John MacArthur: "Sinful man is pre-programmed by God to believe lies." Flowers appealed to various proof texts as evidence that the Jewish crowd was responsible for responding to Jesus.
I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. (John 5:43).
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, John 1:12 .. cf. Ezekiel 18:32
For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’ (Acts 28:27).
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37 cf. Isaiah 30:15).
Flowers: "Notice this hardened condition of Israel is not a universal default condition of all humanity from birth. It is a purposeful divine judicial judgement upon a rebellious people at a particular place in time to bring about Calvary through their rebellion.." (Luke 19:41-42; John 12:39). This also explains why Jesus spoke in parables to the crowds. (Mark 4:34). Flowers also referred to Romans 11: ..as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.” (Romans 11:8). As a result of their rebellion, the Jews were ..ever seeing but never perceiving. (Mark 4:12).
Flowers: "There is only one point of distinction..whydoes God give certain people to the Son?" He continued.. "those who believed in the Father are given to the Son". Calvinism reverses the stated order given in the text i.e. regeneration precedes belief. From the Calvinist perspective draw = regeneration, whereas draw is given a different definition in the text.. i.e. those drawn are those who have heard and learned = those who have responded.
Flowers position on John 6:44 ~ The Jewish crowd is not given to Christ because of their continued refusal to believe all that the Father has taught them (through Moses and the prophets).
White's position on John 6:44 ~ The Jewish crowd is unable to believe by default because they are not given to Christ.
Ex-Calvinist Bible Scholar Reviews James White Vs. Leighton Flowers Debate: John 6:44
The subsequent review of this debate by Biblical Studies expert Dr Joel Korytko,although rather technical, is significant. In it, he identifies various critical weaknesses in White's arguments. White's smoke and mirrors strategy i.e. his technical knowledge of Greek grammar was a tactic that ultimately backfired. It became apparent during Korytko's review that White's frequent references to Greek grammar were not only superfluous and misleading, but were even incorrect at times. Korytko asserted that White's detailed information about aorist present participles in John is not remotely related to the debate and was an unnecessary distraction. In addition, Korytko pointed out that John 6:44-45 does not give evidence of volition.
The Old Testament background to John 6:45 - the Prophets
It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will allbe taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— (John 6:45).
Then all your sons will be taught by the LORD.. (Isaiah 54:13 cf. Joel 3:1-2; Jeremiah 31:4; John 2:20). Isaiah 54:13 is an eschatological prophecy referring to Israel's ultimate salvation in their post-conversion state. (Zechariah 12:10). John 6:45 omits "all your sons" and simultaneously refers to the eschatological prophecy as a present reality (inaugurated eschatology) via the new covenant. This verse presupposes the willingness of present believers, as well as the future inhabitants of the New Jerusalem, to be taught by the Lord. Biblia: "Essentially the same promise is given in Joel 3:1-2, and Jeremiah 31:34; and represented in 1 John 2:20 ('Ye have the anointing of the Holy One, and know all things') as already fulfilled."3
The LORD appeared to us in the past, saying: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving devotion. (Jeremiah 31:3 - Berean Standard Version).
The ESV does not convey the meaning of draw in Jeremiah 31:3. However, several other versions translate the equivalent of the NT word elkusō (draw) Hebrew mashak. Jeremiah 31 sets the stage for the new covenant and the ultimate regathering of Israel. Critically Jeremiah 31:3 powerfully illustrates that the sense of mashak/elkusō (draw) is to lovingly persuade. There is no indication of irresistible grace aka effectual calling in this verse.
Bengel's Gnomen: The same word occurs in the Septuag., Song of Solomon 1:4, εἵλκυσάν σε, [Engl. Vers.] “Draw me, we will run after Thee;”Jeremiah 31:3, “I have loved thee with an everlasting love, therefore with loving-kindness have I drawn thee” [in Septuag. ch. 38:3, εἵλκυσά σε εἰς οἰκτείρημα]. 4
pantes and pas
'And they will all (pantes) be taught by God.’ Everyone (pas) who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— (John 6:45).
Flowers seemed to get rather flustered by White's use of pantes (all) and pas (everyone) (1:38 mark). Flowers has now modified his view and he accepts that all and everyone are in fact the same group. Few teachers are humble enough to publicly admit their errors, and we should give Flowers credit for his subsequent U-turn. Korytko effectively simplified this misunderstanding by appealing to the eschatological reality of John, i.e. everyone taught by God is the same group who have heard and learned from the Father and come to Jesus.
heard and learned
Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me. (John 6:45).
White's false assumption is that heard and learned are passive verbs i.e. those who have heard and learned are the passive recipients of the Father's instruction. In context, everyone is the subject of the sentence. Everyone actively performs the action of coming to Jesus after hearing and learning from the Father.
Other parts of the New Testament emphasize how we hear (active) indicating volition,or whether people haveears to hear. The formula "He who has ears to hear" (Matthew 13:9; Mark 4:9 etc.) suggests more than ordinary powers of thought to comprehend.5
Take care then how you hear (akouete), for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away. (Luke 8:18).
And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen (akouete) to him!” (Luke 9:35 cf. Luke 9:44; Deuteronomy 32:46-47; Proverbs 2:2-5).
For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them. (Matthew 13:15).
Thayers Greek Lexicon: "The Johannean phrase ἀκούειν παρά τοῦ Θεοῦ, or τί παρά Θεοῦ, signifies a. to perceive in the soul the inward communication of God: John 6:45."6
Rightly handling the word of truth
White claims that taking verses 44 and 45 out of order in John 6 is inconsistent: "He (Flowers) begins at verse 45, assigns it a meaning, and then reads it back into the text, skipping over everything that comes previously".
Korytko: "Verse 45 is the support for the previous statement.. this phrase is almost parallel to the previous one, they're supposed to interpret each other. Reading backwards is fine here because they are mutually interpreting each other.7
White makes a similar argument regarding comparisons between John 6:44 and John 12:32.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:44).
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself. (John 12:32).
White's hermeneutic of John is based on a rigid chronological verse-by-verse interpretation of the book in its historical context. While linear methodologies are useful in interpreting other passages of scripture, John has profound layers of meaning that simply do not lend themselves to this strategy. So when White claims that it is inconsistent to "jump six chapters into the future to a completely different context" from Jesus' Jewish audience in chapter 6 to all (Jews and Greeks) in chapter 12, he ignores the circular nature of John's narrative and he misses the forest for the trees. (2 Timothy 2:15). Korytko: "In John, he is teaching a theology from the time of the present.. it is interacting with some of the things that Jesus said and also John's own spin on things." (48:00 mark).
White's comparison with John 6:39-40 does not prove irresistible grace (TULIP) and is equally problematic regarding volition: And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Himshall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
The main focus for Calvinists is the verb "draw" (helkó) = I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.8Clearly, no one can be saved unless the Father draws them, but as we have seen from the Old Testament background, White's view that believers are compelled to respond to God's drawing is to make the false assumption that helkó invariably means to irresistibly drag. White's removal of the necessity for a response eliminates free will and human cooperation. The other passage where helkó is used in a moral sense is in John 12:32, where all people are the object of the sentence. Since universalism is not an option, the context of helkó determines its meaning.
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw (elkusō) all people to myself. (John 6:44).
Cambridge Bible: "There are two Greek words for ‘draw’ in the N.T., one of which necessarily implies violence, the other does not: it is the latter that is used here and in John 6:44; the former (suró) is used Acts 14:19; Acts 17:6. Man’s will is free; he can refuse to be drawn: and there is no violence; the attraction is moral. We see from John 6:44 that before the ‘lifting up’ it is the Father who draws men to the Son."9
Ellicott: "The word 'draw' need not perplex us; and all the theories opposed to the width of divine love and influence, and to the freedom of human will and action, which have been built upon it, are at once seen to be without support, when we remember that the only other passage in the New Testament where it occurs in a moral sense is in the declaration: 'And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me'" (John 12:32).10
“That this ‘drawing’ is not irresistible grace, is confessed even by Augustine himself, the great upholder of the doctrines of grace. ‘If a man is drawn, says an objector, he comes against his will. (We answer) if he comes unwillingly, he does not believe: if he does not believe, he does not come. For we do not run to Christ on our feet, but by faith; not with the movement of the body, but with the free will of the heart…Think not that thou are drawn against thy will; the mind can be drawn by love.’” (Alford)
f. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me: Those who have a revelation from God the Father will come to His Son and Perfect Representative. f. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me: Those who have a revelation from God the Father will come to His Son and Perfect Representative. To hear and learn from the Son is to hear and learn from the Father.
Expositors Greek Testament: "But whether it is also true that everyone whom God teaches comes is not here stated; the καὶ μαθὼν introduces a doubtful element. [Wetstein quotes from Polybius διαφέρει τὸ μαθεῖν τοῦ μόνον ἀκοῦσαι.]"11
Both Flowers and White agreed that drawing is the teaching, or as White put it, "communicating facts and data". Flowers added, "the gospel is the power of God unto salvation". I would not isolate teaching as the single element required for salvation. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.. (Ephesians 2:8).
Matthew Poole: "..unless it be illuminated and drawn by the Spirit of God. No soul is able of itself to discern spiritual things.."12
One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. (Acts 16:14).
I am not implying that Lydia was compelled to respond, as Calvinists assert, but without the Lord's direct intervention in opening Lydia's heart, she would not have been converted.
I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. (Acts 20:29-30).
One Church Leicester (formerly Trinity Life Church) is hosting two services on the 28th of January with guest speaker J John.
The critical thing to note about J John is that he is an Anglican and ecumenical to the core. This means that he does not follow the true gospel of Jesus Christ, but that he teaches a "different gospel". (2 Corinthians 11:4).
The video below by The English Fundamentalist accurately sums up the "ministry" of J John. (2 Corinthians 11:13).
An assessment of the ministry of British evangelist J John - a ministry of grave danger and great deception, particularly with regard to the coming lying signs, wonders and miracles movement, and Roman Catholic seduction.
Transcript:
"There is an evangelist today who I would equate to Billy Graham in his method, worldwide impact, amount of souls reached, preaching and Christian profession. But this is of course a bad thing. He goes by the name of J John, an anglicized form of his Greek-rooted Ioannes Ioannou, John son of John. And like Billy Graham, he is a friend of the devil's Roman Catholic religion. London-born J John has been in ministry as an evangelist for well over three decades now, preaching all over the world to large crowds at crusade-type events, often reminiscent of Billy Graham in his subtle work of deception. J John has been a significant figure in shaping today's perverse hybrid Christianity. Souls responding to his preaching responded in turn to his anti-Christian philosophy which has paved the way for the emerging Roman Catholic takeover and false signs and wonders movement. J John is a good example of today's corrupted UK evangelical Christianity and has played his part in bringing it to fruition. The sixty-two-year-old describes himself as an Anglican, as a Canon of Coventry Cathedral, honorary it seems, has authored a large number of books, and has spread the seeds of his hybrid Christianity all over the world to untold millions of people in receiving appraisal, even awards from two Archbishops of Canterbury, Justin Welby and George Carey. The alarm bells should sound very loudly for us regarding J John. Please listen to me my friends, this man is more dangerous than we can ever imagine as I shall show. He is a signs and wonders enthusiast who, and note this well, has declared that he seeks God's revival through the Catholic Church in a fresh move of the Spirit; not exclusively through that system, I grant that, but he is open wide to such an idea and is thus setting people up for the false Eucharistic or Marian miracles that may well be coming soon from the belly of the Roman Catholic harlot. J John loves the Roman Catholic Church. His attitude towards such epitomizes the general tone of UK evangelical Christianity. Yes, he has stated that he does not believe as Catholics do on certain issues such as transubstantiation, but he equally does not oppose it, he speaks not against it, he sees it as a legitimate expression of Christian truth. It's today's typical unity in diversity heresy. J John validates Roman Catholicism. He says we should respect and support this Roman Church. He intimates the deception that the Roman Catholic system stretches back in history 2,000 years to the days of the Apostles. He praises Rome's extraordinary richness of doctrine and traditions terming such a 'blessing'. He sees Catholics as genuine Christians, doing no favors to the deluded souls caught up in that wicked parody. He is open to speaking at Roman Catholic conferences, has claimed to have prayed with the Pope, rejoices in his month working with Mother Teresa and her Sisters of Charity Order, claiming that it was a life-transforming experience, inspiring by nature. J John allegorizes reprobate churches as 'differing flavors of the same product' all equally valid, and advocates each individual finding a flavor that suits them with such ?? it's not about what's true it's about what flavor you like, and this of course involves his legitimizing of Romanism and sending persons into the clutches of the harlot. What wicked manner of evangelism and pastoring is this? J John's large evangelistic events under the 'Just One' banner, also described by the man himself as 'a movement of church unity', and his Emirates Stadium event had 223 churches and charities partnering and working together with him in his ecumenical evangelism that, like Billy Graham, will send supposed converts to the Church of their choice or background rather than steer them away from falsehood and error. J John fellowships with a rogue's gallery of prolific spiritual offenders, heretics and reprobates; speaks on their platforms, interviews them approvingly, persons such as Matt Redman Nicky Gumbel, Guvna B, John Sentamu, Carl Lentz, Mike Pilavachi, Justin Welby, Philip Yancey and so on; associates whose compromised sin and era lead the way in the dark course of reprobate evangelicalism. He has spoken at habitations of devils, such as Holy Trinity Brompton, Sole Survivor, Hillsong London and Hillsong New York City. And to the complete lack of surprise to those acquainted with the state of UK Christianity today, J John has directed respondents at his rallies to attend the Alpha Course, that wicked imposture of the false prophet Nicky Gumbel, the gateway course to end times deception. J John's Christianity is a hybrid Christianity, a mixture of truth and a lot of deadly error. He of course utilizes the music of the world, the all kinds of music of Nebuchadnezzar's worldwide Empire and religion, as all the false teachers do. It is a significant adhesive and accelerant of the Roman Catholic ecumenical movement designed to destroy Christian truth and replace it with Papal Authority and the Roman Catholic system. A token or badge recognition was given to J John by the Minister of Satan, Justin Welby, who spoke well of J John in the recent past, saying of him that he is 'one of the best communicators of what it is to be a Christian'. An appraisal from the Archbishop of Canterbury signifies the corrupt roots of the ministry receiving it. J John, as I have mentioned, is a signs and wonders man and undoubtedly accepts the Roman Catholic system as a Christian Church as valid as any other denomination, and that its adherents are Christians, and that it's Christ is the true Jesus. Now if miracles signs and wonders began to flow publicly and powerfully from the heart of the Roman Catholic Church, J John will point people there with enthusiastic accreditation. He is a catastrophic deception waiting to happen, and many others with him. Let us recall, he will accept as authentic, a revival, even if it came by the Roman Catholic Church. That is his position, and those souls tutored under his ministry, many false converts as well as intrigued unbelievers will be led into great deception by this false teacher and false prophet, who for many years has received a stipend for preparing the way for satanic deception. And the way has been prepared, and deception is abundant now and is to come in manifested power. Whether J John himself, who has sown the seeds and helped build the necessary conditions for end times deception regarding lying signs and wonders, or one like him, such as Matt Redman, Nicky Gumbel or Mike Pilavachi, there shall be charismatic popular attractive personalities eagerly pointing to Rome as the source of God's revival and move of the Holy Spirit. J John's ministry has been accompanied by miracles, and people follow the miracles in unrighteousness instead of receiving a love of the truth. For Satan can work miracles. False christs and false prophets work great signs and wonders to deceive. We must test the spirits by the word of God. J John's initials remind me of Jannes and Jambres in 2nd Timothy chapter three (2 Timothy 3:8), those wicked persons who withstood Moses and resist the truth, referring I believe to those magicians of Egypt in Exodus who through their enchantments, were allowed of God to mimic the work of God to their own shame and folly by false signs and wonders, a feature of the end times church led by individuals very much akin to the false prophet J John."
Money money money!
Hind: "Let's keep giving tithes and offerings.." (1:29 mark)
The New Testament encourages believers to be cheerful givers and to give what has been decided in their hearts,not under compulsion. Giving in the New Testament was for the benefit of the poor (Acts 2:43-47,4:32-37) and to support those who preach the gospel. (Matthew 10:10; Luke 10:7; 1 Corinthians 9:6-14; 1 Timothy 5:17-18). Money was definitely not given to support the extravagant lifestyle of greedy pastors or for things like ostentatious building projects that never come to an end. Any pastor or minister who has a superior lifestyle to that of his congregation is a hireling and is unworthy to be in the ministry. (1 Timothy 6:8). There should be no pressure to tithe in any New Testament Church. Believers are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant. (Romans 6:14-15,7:5-6; Galatians 3:15-4:7; 2 Corinthians 3:4-18). I have added a link on this subject at the end of this post.
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. (2 Corinthians 9:7 cf. Psalm 37:21).
The Lord did not intend a large body of believers to be governed by a centralized leadership. In the New Testament congregations are described as local assemblies governed entirely by local elders. (Acts 14:22; Titus 1:5) The New Testament model eliminates the need for the popish "megachurch" model and the crippling expense of huge buildings and facilities.
Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; (Revelation 18:4).
Listening to Susan Hind teach on Nehemiah 4 at Trinity Life Church in Leicester (Assemblies of God), reminded me of their previous pastor, Brian Niblock and his admiration for Smith Wigglesworth. It makes me wonder if any of these teachers really do their due diligence in researching their supposed "heroes of the faith". Some years after I left TLC I did some research on Smith Wigglesworth, and the results were horrifying. {1}
Susan Hind's heroes apparently include Freemason Billy Graham and his mentor and close associate Raymond Edman who was a missionary in Ecuador for a time. Susan related the story of Edman's alleged miraculous healing from typhoid. Edman went on to become the fourth President of Wheaton College in Illinois in 1940, a position he held until he became chancellor in 1965. {2} Raymond Edman was a personal friend of Billy Graham and often worked with him on his crusades. Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones was not so easily diverted from the gospel, and he went to great efforts to reason with Billy Graham about his compromise with Roman Catholics and liberals. However, after a long discussion, he failed to convince Graham that inclusivism with false churches was sinful. The outcome was that Martyn Lloyd-Jones refused to endorse or share a platform with Billy Graham. Apart from Graham's obvious disloyalty to the gospel, the seed sown was almost guaranteed to be snatched away by the false churches he sent responders to! (Matthew 13:19 cf. 2 Corinthians 11:3).
"In 1963 Billy Graham asked Dr Lloyd-Jones to chair the first World Congress on Evangelism (eventually held in Berlin in 1966; predecessor to Lausanne). Dr Lloyd-Jones told Billy Graham that if he would stop having liberals and Roman Catholics on his platform and drop the invitation system he would support and chair the Congress. Billy Graham would not change his views, and Dr Lloyd-Jones declined to endorse or commend or work with him. No doubt the meeting between them was courteously conducted (it lasted three hours) but the outcome was a firm application of secondary separation. Dr Lloyd-Jones adopted the same attitude to Billy Graham's London crusades. He took the view, and stated it publicly, that to have visible unity with those who are opposed to essential matters of salvation was sinful. (He also believed the invitation system was a source of mass-delusion and harm to churches.) Despite Billy Graham's high standing with most British evangelicals, the enthusiastic support he received from the secular media, the fact that his name was a household word, and despite the significant place in world evangelicalism that he was offering to Dr Lloyd-Jones, the latter stood by his biblical principle, and declined all the overtures. He would not commend or work with Dr Billy Graham. This is true loyalty to God’s Word, and protectiveness of one’s congregation." {3}
Billy Graham showed his true colours in 1997 during his interview with Robert Schuller when he denied the gospel and said that all people are saved whether or not they have heard the gospel. Those who insist on portraying Billy Graham as a "hero of the faith" sugarcoat the real issues and are dishonest.
Billy Graham: "..whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven." {4}
What foundation are TLC building on?
No one who is truly saved should have anything to do with the false gospel of Roman Catholicism. (John 4:24). The very first injunction to church leaders is to hold the line doctrinally and to protect believers from spiritual deception. All the nice-sounding advice and all the pep talks in the world from Susan Hind do not alter the fact that the primary obligation of leaders is to teach sound doctrine - this is the foundationof the church. TLC are not particular about associating with false teachers, and their ungodly actions are a contradiction and an offense to the gospel of Jesus Christ. The bizarre episode of their Coffee House and its association with 666 is still something that I find inexplicable! Without sound doctrine, TLC are wasting their time trying to build anything of real value. TLC is a superficial church that has been badly let down by its leaders. (Matthew 5:13).
if the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do? (Psalm 11:3-4).
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers. (1 Timothy 4:16).
We will not be persecuted by a Sanballat, a Tobiah or "Arabs Ammonites and Ashdodites" if the temple we are building is devoid of sound doctrine. (Nehemiah 4:7).
But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding. (2 Corinthians 10:12).
The Prophetic Standards Statement (PSS) recently published by Pentecostal and Charismatic leaders is a dismal attempt to legitimize false prophets. The false Trump prophecies of 2020 are just the tip of the iceberg and are the latest in a long line of questionable activities by NAR charismatic "apostles and prophets". These latest false prophecies regarding Trump have left their already dubious credibility in tatters, but true to form, they continue to defend the indefensible regardless!
The PSS was constructed by USCAL members Michael Brown and Joseph Mattera. It has a façade of officialdom in the style of a statement of faith, but as with everything these people do, it is deeply flawed and biblically unsound. The supposed purpose of this document is: "..to help provide scriptural guidelines for the operation of the gift of prophecy and the functioning of the ministry of the prophet, while at the same time affirming the importance of these gifts and ministries."
The concept of "prophetic and apostolic ministries" is a misnomer. These vainglorious individuals put themselves on the same level, and even elevate themselves above, New Testament apostles and Old Testament prophets. In other words, they have raised themselves above the scriptures and have made themselves unaccountable. (1 John 4:1; Acts 17:11). In many cases, they deny the sufficiency of the scriptures by teaching the heresy of Dominionism. (2 Timothy 3:16). This contradicts the book of Revelation which teaches that that the church will suffer unequaled persecution at the end of the age before the return of Jesus Christ. (Matthew 24:21). Furthermore, the majority of these false apostles/prophets/teachers are ecumenical and they embrace the false gospel of Roman Catholicism. In other words, these so called "prophets and apostles" cannot rightfully call themselves Christians, and they certainly have nothing legitimate to say to the Body of Christ. Jude rightly says of them: These are hidden reefs at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted.. (Jude 1:12)
The Illegitimacy Of The Five-fold Ministry
PSS:"WE BELIEVE in the five-fold ministry of the prophet, recognizing that such prophets will also be used to bring correction, instruction, and directional clarity to the Body, but not independent of other leaders, and therefore different from the model of the independent Old Testament prophet."
The sole proof text these charlatans use to support the five-fold ministry concept is Ephesians 4:11-13. In case they hadn't noticed, the canon of scripture is closed! The church is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.. (Ephesians 2:20). The false foundation laid by the NAR/charismatic movement is an attempt to usurp the true foundation of Jesus Christ and His prophets and apostles. These heretics teach a different Jesus, they have a different spirit and they teach a different gospel. (2 Corinthians 11:4).For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:10-11). By denying the sufficiency of the scriptures, these people are a blight on the church, and they can have nothing of any value to say to the Body of Christ on any level, whether it be spiritual, political or personal. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).
Spiritual Fortune Tellers
PSS: "WE RECOGNIZE that prophets do not serve as spiritual fortune tellers or prognosticators, nor is their role to satisfy our curiosity about the future or reveal abstract information. God’s purpose in prophecy is redemptive, calling for repentance, giving supernatural guidance, bringing comfort, deliverance, restoration, and glorifying Jesus as Lord."
On the contrary, these false prophets are precisely fulfilling the role of spiritual fortune tellers. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth and guides us into all truth. (John 16:13). These people are operating from the spirit of error. (1 John 4:6). No lie comes from the truth, and yet time and again the so called prophecies of these individuals have proved to be false. (1 John 2:21).
PSS: "WE UNDERSTAND that prophecies can be conditional and that many prophecies will take time to come to pass. We also recognize that prophetic language is often mysterious and symbolic, requiring interpretation and insight. This means that prophecies that do not contradict the Bible or that are not contrary to fact should be evaluated over time and not immediately rejected. On the other hand, if a prophetic word is delivered containing specific details and dates in which the stated prophetic word will come to pass and that prophecy contains no conditions to be met in order to be fulfilled, and that word does not come to pass as prophesied, then the one who delivered the word must be willing to take full responsibility, demonstrating genuine contrition before God and people. Any statement of apology and/or explanation/clarification should be delivered to the audience to whom the erroneous word was given. For example, if it was given to an individual, the apology (and/or explanation/clarification) should be delivered to the individual. If the word was delivered publicly, then a public apology (and/or explanation/clarification) should be presented. This is not meant to be a punishment but rather a mature act of love to protect the honor of the Lord, the integrity of prophetic ministry, and the faith of those to whom the word was given."
Biblically, a "prophetic word" that does not come to pass is evidence that that "prophet" is a false prophet and has no business in the ministry. No amount of prevarication or apology can alter that fact. The scriptures call these people "deceitful, presumptuous, greedy for gain, sensual, worthless, flatterers, blasphemers of the way of truth..
Mark and Avoid False Prophets
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. (Matthew 7:15).
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. (Romans 16:17-18).
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. (2 Peter 2:1-3).
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1).
“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5).
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
Your prophets have seen for you false and deceptive visions; they have not exposed your iniquity to restore your fortunes, but have seen for you oracles that are false and misleading. (Lamentations 2:14).
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: “Because you have uttered falsehood and seen lying visions, therefore behold, I am against you, declares the Lord GOD. My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and who give lying divinations. They shall not be in the council of my people, nor be enrolled in the register of the house of Israel, nor shall they enter the land of Israel. And you shall know that I am the Lord GOD. Precisely because they have misled my people, saying, ‘Peace,’ when there is no peace, and because, when the people build a wall, these prophets smear it with whitewash, say to those who smear it with whitewash that it shall fall! (Ezekiel 13:8-11).
And her prophets have smeared whitewash for them, seeing false visions and divining lies for them, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD,’ when the LORD has not spoken. (Ezekiel 22:28).
