COMMONWEALTH THEOLOGY # THE DENVER DECLARATION: DOUG KRIEGER # DOUG HAMP ET AL

Commonwealth of Israel Foundation: DENVER DECLARATION

The Denver Declaration (DD) is a dislocated document written by multiple authors who promote the false doctrines of Commonwealth Theology. Commonwealth Theology is a variation on Covenant Theology and follows the allegorical approach to the scriptures. Allegorical interpreters can teach pretty much any nonsense they like, and they have the dubious advantage of avoiding the responsibility of providing scriptural evidence to support their views. (1 John 4:1).

The DD is presented under the guise of countering anti-Semitism vis-à-vis the error of Replacement Theology (Supersessionism) i.e. the false teaching that the church has replaced Israel in God's plans. The DD also complains that Messianic believers often find themselves isolated from the main body of believers. As a response, these authors have taken the speculative leap of identifying the ten lost tribes of Israel i.e. the house of Joseph/Ephraim, as the Gentile church, without the prerequisite of actual genetic descent from Jacob. {1} The authors of the DD have misinterpreted the prophetic scriptures regarding the ultimate gathering together of Judah and Ephraim in Jeremiah 50:4-5 and Ezekiel 37:16-19, 21-22 and have misapplied them to Ephesians 2:15. This dubious theory denies the genuine lost tribes of Israel, who are genetically identifiable, their unique designation BEFORE GOD, as "natural branches". The supposition that genetic Israel are now amalgamated with Gentiles and have become "wild branches" is insupportable.

DD: "The House of Israel/Ephraim was intentionally, divinely scattered and diffused among the Nations (Gentiles) so that they were “swallowed up.”

They who were ‘swallowed up of the Nations’ [aka, Ephraim, Israel, Jezreel, Samaria – Hos. 8:7-9]; yet, He 'will gather them' for “As He says also in Hosea: ‘I will call them My people, who were not My people, and her beloved, who was not beloved. And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God’” (Hos. 2:23; 1:10; Rom. 9:25-26)."

We affirm but ONE OLIVE TREE (Jer. 11:16) yet “two branches” but “one root” – these two are seen as the “natural branches” (Judah) and the wild branches (those 'elect from among the nations'– Rom. 11).."  (Section 1)

The New Testament refers to both Judah and Ephraim specifically as the "natural branches". Paul refers to Judah and Ephraim as a whole: What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. (Romans 11:7). All twelve tribes of Israel received the Mosaic Law and were part of the Mosaic Covenant. (Romans 11:1). The twelve tribes are the covenant people to whom the promises given to the patriarchs refer. (Matthew 19:28; Revelation 7:4, 21:12). At the present time the "natural branches" (Judah and Ephraim) have been temporarily cut off. (Romans 11:24). 

When she had weaned No Mercy, she conceived and bore a son. And the LORD said, “Call his name Not My People, for you are not my people, and I am not your God.” Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or numbered. And in the place where it was said to them, “You are not my people,” it shall be said to them, “Children of the living God.” And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together, and they shall appoint for themselves one head. And they shall go up from the land, for great shall be the day of Jezreel. (Hosea 1:8-10).

The Commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2:12) 

..remember that you (Gentiles) were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Ephesians 2:12).  

The commonwealth of Israel designates the special relationship Judah and Israel previously had with God under the Mosaic covenant which is now abolished. Israeli and Gentile believers in Jesus Christ have become one under the new covenant ~ the Israel of God i.e. the spiritual seed of Abraham by faith. (Galatians 6:16 cf. Galatians 3:9,29; Romans 2:28-29; Philippians 3:3).

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:13-22).

The authors of the DD make a cringeworthy attempt at officialdom with the opening phrase: 

 "THEREFORE - BE IT KNOWN".

DD: God has not forgotten nor forsaken either Judah or Ephraim. (Isa. 49:14-16; Jer. 3:12; Rom. 11:1-2)—notwithstanding their “scattering.” Both the everlasting Abrahamic covenant and the Mosaic covenant remain in place on God’s part: “Concerning the election...the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (Rom. 11:28-29); “If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself” (2 Tim. 2:13).

We should stop short at this point and question the above statement since it goes against the specific New Testament teaching that the Mosaic Covenant has been abrogated. Unfortunately, the divisive heresy that the Mosaic covenant remains in place is taught by a number of aberrant sects and includes modern Judaizers Doug Hamp, Scott Harwell, and presumably Doug Krieger et al, who keep the Mosaic Law regarding Levitical dietary laws, Sabbath days and feast days. (See further links) The Mosaic Covenant is referred to as the Old Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:14; Hebrews 8:6,13), i.e. it was replaced by the New Covenant in Christ (Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 8:8,13, 9:15, 12:24).The New Covenant in Christ is superior to the old Mosaic Covenant it replaces because it fulfills the promises made in Jeremiah 31:31-34, as quoted in Hebrews 8. No genuine believer can support the heresy that the Mosaic Covenant remains in place!

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith. ”But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:10-14). 

Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. Galatians 3:23-25).

Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we lived according to the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death. But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. (Romans 7:4-6).

Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. (Ephesians 2:13-16). 

In context... one new man in the New Testament refers to those who were far off i.e. the Gentiles who did not have the Mosaic Law, and those who were near i.e. Israel who did have the Mosaic Law. (Ephesians 2:13-16). Ephraim falls into the latter category. 

At the end of the 70th week of Daniel, a Jewish remnant, referred to as all Israel, will be saved. This will fulfil the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 and Zechariah 12:10. This remnant will be protected from the day of God's wrath on the earth at the very end of the age during the seventh seal trumpet and bowl judgements. ((Revelation 12:1-14; Revelation 8). The remnant of Israel will therefore remain on the earth during the day of the Lord, whereas the church will be raptured between the sixth and seventh seal of Revelation. (Revelation 7:9–17). As such we do have to make a distinction between Israel and the church since both groups are treated differently during this period and also during the millennial reign of Christ.

ONE IN MESSIAH CONVOCATION - DENVER - 18-20 JULY 2019

 

Gentile believers in Jesus Christ are not "Ephraim" and they are not under the Mosaic Law! 

Beware of these false teachers.

1. Commonwealth of Israel Foundation: BELIEFS 

Further Links

(1) Duke professor writes about Lost Tribe of Israel - YouTube

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Doug Hamp (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

DOUG HAMP'S SABBATH SUBTERFUGE

An Open Letter to Christian Pastors and Theologians: A Call to Return to the Biblical Sabbath | DouglasHamp.com

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17).

Such is Doug Hamp's determination to put believers under the Mosaic Law, his seditious Judaizing went as far as sending an open letter to "Christian pastors and Theologians" in 2018 in a call to return to what he termed as "the biblical sabbath". 

Seventh-day (Saturday) Sabbatarianism is a legalistic belief that the fourth commandment in Exodus 20:8-11 should be strictly observed. It is practiced by various sects such as Seventh-day Adventists, Davidian Seventh-day Adventists, Church of God (Seventh Day), the Hebrew Roots Movement and other Torah observant groups.

Hamp's Geiermann Subterfuge

Hamp: "The Bible never changed the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day; the Catholic Church openly admits they changed it. 'The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!'” —Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50."

Geiermann referred to the Synod of Laodicea (AD 364), a minor convention in historical Christianity consisting of about thirty members from local churches in the Middle East:

Canon 29: "CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ." {1} 

The Roman Catholic church are guilty of many heresies and perversions of the scriptures, but they cannot legitimately take credit for reinstituting the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. The practice of Sunday worship pre-dates the Synod of Laodicea and can be found in both the New Testament and the early Church Fathers. 

Hamp: "Paul’s Acts 20:7 message took place in the evening of the first day of the week, which was Saturday evening from sundown until midnight (biblical days begin after sunset not at the Roman-established midnight). Nevertheless, even if his teaching had taken place Sunday evening, that would still not constitute a change in the Sabbath. Setting aside an offering on the first day (cf. I Cor 16:2) likewise would not constitute a change. The first day of the week, not Sabbath, was when they would handle money. John being in the Spirit on the Lord’s day (Rev 1:10) is not a change in the Sabbath; God declares His day is the Sabbath. 'Call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable.' (Isa 58:13) There simply is no New Testament directive to abandon the Sabbath. None."

In Judaism the days of the week are not named, they are simply referred to as the first day, second day, third day, etc. The first day of the week, Sunday (Yom Rishon) begins after sundown on Saturday. Paul's message in Acts 20:7 therefore took place on the first day, i.e. the day after the Jewish Sabbath. The first day of the week is the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) i.e. the day of the Lord's resurrection. In the New Testament there is no evidence that the Jewish Sabbath was observed by Christians; rather all the evidence suggests that the first day was reserved for worship, almsgiving, and the Lord's Supper. Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2 cf. John 20:19-26). Paul's practice was to reason with (evangelize) unconverted Jews and Greeks in the synagogue every Sabbath. (Acts 17:2; 18:4 cf. Acts 13:5,13-52, 16:13).

Apart from the above scriptural support, evidence that the early church worshipped on the first day of the week is overwhelming. (Deuteronomy 19:15). 

The Didache (c. 50-120 AD)
Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day.

But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. {2} 

The Epistle of Barnabus (c. 70-132 AD)

Barnabas 15:9: Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended into the heavens. {3} 

Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 AD)
First Apology: CHAPTER LXVII -- WEEKLY WORSHIP OF THE CHRIS- TIANS.
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration. {4} 

Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 AD)

(Letter to the Magnesians 8

Chapter IX.-Let Us Live with Christ.
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death-whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master-how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead. {5} 

Tertullian (c. 200AD)
Chapter XIII.-- THE CHARGE OF WORSHIPPING THE SUN MET BY A RETORT.

Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is a well-known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity. {6} 

Didascalia Apostolorum (c. 225 AD)

Chapter XXVI
Cease therefore, beloved brethren, (p. 113) you who from among the People have believed, yet desire (still) to be tied with the bonds, and say that the Sabbath is prior to the first day of the week because that the Scripture has said: In six days did God make all things; and on the seventh day he finished all his works, and he sanctified it [Ex 20.11; Gen 2.2-3]..
But the Sabbath itself is counted even unto the Sabbath, and it becomes eight (days); thus an ogdoad is (reached), which is more than the Sabbath, even the first of the week.

Origen (229 AD)
Commentary on John Book II
Hence it is not possible that the rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh of our God; on the contrary, it is our Saviour who, after the pattern of His own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of His death, and hence also of His resurrection. {7} 

Acts 20:7 Commentaries 

Clarke: "Upon the first day of the week - What was called κυριακη, the Lord's day, the Christian Sabbath, in which they commemorated the resurrection of our Lord; and which, among all Christians, afterwards took the place of the Jewish Sabbath.. They who, professing the Christian religion, still prefer the Jewish Sabbath, have little to support them in the New Testament. How prone is man to affect to be wise above what is written, while he is, in almost every respect, below the teaching so plainly laid down in the Divine word. {8}

Alford: ἐν τῇ μιᾷ τ. σαββ.] We have here an intimation of the continuance of the practice, which seems to have begun immediately after the Resurrection (see John 20:26), of assembling on the first day of the week for religious purposes. (Justin Martyr, Apol. i. 67, p. 83, says, τῇ τοῦ ἡλίου λεγομένῃ ἡμέρᾳ πάντων κατὰ πόλεις ἢ ἀγροὺς μενόντων ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτὸ συνέλευσις γίνεται.) Perhaps the greatest proof of all, that this day was thus observed, may be found in the early (see 1Corinthians 16:2) and at length general prevalence, in the Gentile world, of the Jewish seven-day period as a division of time,—which was entirely foreign to Gentile habits. It can only have been introduced as following on the practice of especial honour paid to this day. But we find in the Christian Scriptures no trace of any sabbatical observance of this or any day: nay, in Romans 14:5 (where see note), Paul shews the untenableness of any such view under the Christian dispensation. The idea of the transference of the Jewish sabbath from the seventh day to the first was an invention of later times. {9} 

Ellicott: "This and the counsel given in 1Corinthians 16:2, are distinct proofs that the Church had already begun to observe the weekly festival of the Resurrection in place of, or, where the disciples were Jews, in addition to, the weekly Sabbath." {10} 

Benson: “The whole of the ceremonial law of Moses being abrogated by Christ, (Colossians 2:14,) Christians are under no obligation to observe any of the Jewish holydays, not even the seventh-day sabbath. Wherefore, if any teacher made the observance of the seventh day a necessary duty, the Colossians were to resist him. But though the brethren in the first age paid no regard to the Jewish seventh-day sabbath, they set apart the first day of the week for public worship, and for commemorating the death and resurrection of their Master, by eating his supper on that day; also for the private exercises of devotion. This they did, either by the precept or by the example of the apostles, and not by virtue of any injunction in the law of Moses. Besides, they did not sanctify the first day of the week in the Jewish manner, by a total abstinence from bodily labour of every kind. That practice was condemned by the council of Laodicea, as Judaizing.” {11} 

If pastors and teachers have any wisdom whatsoever, they will reject Hamp's call to return to the "biblical sabbath" and follow the example of the scriptures and the early Church Fathers. 

1. CHURCH FATHERS: Synod of Laodicea (4th Century) (newadvent.org.
2. Didache. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (translation Roberts-Donaldson). (earlychristianwritings.com)

3. The Epistle of Barnabas (translation J.B. Lightfoot) (earlychristianwritings.com)
4. Saint Justin Martyr: First Apology (Roberts-Donaldson) (earlychristianwritings.com)
5. St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Magnesians (Roberts-Donaldson translation)(earlychristianwritings.com)
6. Tertullian (Roberts-Donaldson) (earlychristianwritings.com)
7. Origen: Commentary on John, Book 2 (Roberts-Donaldson) (earlychristianwritings.com)
8. Acts 20 Clarke's Commentary (biblehub.com)
9. Acts 20 Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary - Alford (biblehub.com)
10. Acts 20 - Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
11. Colossians 2:16 Commentaries: Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- (biblehub.com)

DOUG HAMP'S RAPTURE INCOMPETENCE: LUKE 17:34-36

 Who is Left Behind? Understanding the Order of the Final Gathering (Rapture) | DouglasHamp.com

Doug Hamp's Eisegesis: Who will be taken and who will be left?  (Luke v17:34-36). 

Doug Hamp's incompetence as a bible teacher has become painfully clear over the last few weeks as I have watched his weekly Prophecy Roundtable with fellow hosts Scott Harwell and John Haller. {1} Hamp's mild mannered "chats" belie the lethal doctrines being promoted on these videos. Hamp and Harwell are modern Judaizers who promote Torah-observance, the Talmud and the skewed doctrine known as "Commonwealth Theology" which works on the false premise that both the Abrahamic covenant and the Mosaic covenant remain in place. Hamp takes the same position as Joseph Smith (Mormons) i.e. that the church is the ten tribes of Israel (Ephraim). Hamp applies the rapture to Israel and places it at the end of the tribulation. Much more could be said, but I will limit this post to Hamp's interpretation of Luke 17:34-36. 

The above link demonstrates Hamp's error in taking one small excerpt from the scriptures in order to justify his warped view that this passage does not refer to the rapture. He does not take into account the parallel passage in Matthew 24 and other related scriptures that confirm that the righteous, not the wicked, are taken. (Psalm 119:160).

Hamp: "..we see that the ones taken from the bed, mill, and field, are not the righteous, but the wicked who have taken the mark of the beast. They are removed to destruction where the birds will eat their flesh. The righteous who didn’t know it will inherit the earth as flesh and blood and have children. The elect (commonwealth of Israel) are gathered by the angels and are transformed in a flash into their new bodies and become rulers with Christ during the thousand-year rule."

Hamp's eisegesis is an inversion of the entire passage. His proof text (Ezekiel 39:17-20), is based on the assumption that Ezekiel 38 and 39 refers to the battle of Armageddon in Revelation 19.* Ezekiel demonstrates that the assembly of the wicked has nothing in common with the rapture event described by Luke i.e. one taken (paralambanó) and the other left. (Luke 17:34-36). Ezekiel describes the gathering of the vultures, not the removal of the wicked, taking place on the the mountains of Israel, the location where Gog's armies will fall. (Ezekiel 39:4 cf. Matthew 24:28; Revelation 19:17). The kings and their armies are assembled together at Armageddon by the three unclean spirits coming out of the mouth of the dragon. (Revelation 16:13-14). And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon. (Revelation 16:6).

Luke 17:34-35 : One will be taken (paralambanó). Typically paralambanó is an affirmative verb meaning to receive or to take to oneself. The verb paralambanó refers to the rapture in Matthew 24:40-41 and John 14:3.{2} 

“As for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD: Speak to the birds of every sort and to all beasts of the field: ‘Assemble and come, gather from all around to the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you, a great sacrificial feast on the mountains of Israel, and you shall eat flesh and drink blood. You shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth—of rams, of lambs, and of he-goats, of bulls, all of them fat beasts of Bashan. And you shall eat fat till you are filled, and drink blood till you are drunk, at the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you. And you shall be filled at my table with horses and charioteers, with mighty men and all kinds of warriors,’ declares the Lord GOD. (Ezekiel 39:17-20).

Luke 17:26-37

26Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— 30so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. 32Remember Lot’s wife. 33Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it. 34I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left. 35There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left.”37And they said to him, “Where, Lord?” He said to them, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.”  

The question: Where Lord? Jesus identifies the wicked with the corpses i.e. the vultures will gather and they will gorge themselves on the corpses of the wicked where they have been killed by the Lord. And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. (Revelation 19:17-21).

The parallel passage in Matthew 24 confirms that the elect, not the wicked, are gathered and that this event (i.e. the rapture) happens immediately after the tribulation. (Matthew 24:29-31). In contrast, the battle of Armageddon occurs after the rapture and follows the trumpet and bowl judgments. The armies assemble at Armageddon at the sixth bowl judgment. (Revelation 16:12-14).

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather (ἐπισυνάξουσιν) his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31, 36-44 cf. Mark 13:27; Luke 21:26-28; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

Old Testament Parallels 

Noah as an example ~  Noah entered the ark i.e. Noah preceded those outside who remained and were destroyed. (Luke 17:27 cf. Genesis 7:7). The ark rose above the flood waters and those who were left behind on the earth were destroyed.

In some versions Matthew 24:39 reads  ..the flood took (airó) them all away (NIV KJV NASB etc.) 

This is a point of confusion with taken (paralambanó). The context of the passage is not that the wicked were literally taken (raptured), but that the flood swept them away and they were destroyed.

..they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. (Matthew 24:39 ESV)

Lot as an example ~  Lot went out from Sodom. (Luke 17:18-28-29). The two angels accompanied Lot out of the city (Sodom), and Lot subsequently fled to Zoar: Then the LORD rained down sulfur and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:19-24). Those who remained in Sodom were destroyed.. so it will be when the son of man is revealed.. (Luke 17:29:30 cf. Matthew 24:31). 

Lot and his family are told to flee without delay.. without going back for their goods and without turning back.. Lot's wife is given as an example not to look back. (Luke 17:31).

 

The righteous will be taken up in the rapture in order to escape the wrath of God on the earth. In the same way, Noah escaped the flood waters, and Lot escaped the destruction of Sodom. (Matthew 24:30-31).

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18).

Alan Kurschner's critique of Reclaiming the Rapture: Restoring the Doctrine of the Gathering of the Commonwealth of Israel by Doug Hamp and Chris Steinle is very cutting. Apart from commenting that it is very poorly written and edited, his main criticism is Steinle's incompetence, his denial of the rapture and his mistranslation of harpagésómetha as plunder.

Kurschner: "Steinle argues fallaciously that Paul’s usage of harpagēsometha in 1 Thess 4:17 does not mean to be snatched or seized. Rather he thinks it means plunder." {3} 

Hamp's conclusion is just as problematic as his faulty exegesis above.

He divides people into three categories:

The elect (Commonwealth Israel = followers of Christ)

Those who took the mark of the beast (Hybrids/Rephaim cf. Isaiah 26:19, Rev 14:9-10)

Those who were righteous but didn’t know it – they don’t take the mark or follow beast but they don’t necessarily seem to be followers of Christ either. (Matthew 25:37)

Hamp: "In conclusion, we see that the ones taken from the bed, mill, and field, are not the righteous, but the wicked who have taken the mark of the beast. They are removed to destruction where the birds will eat their flesh. The righteous who didn’t know it will inherit the earth as flesh and blood and have children. The elect (commonwealth of Israel) are gathered by the angels and are transformed in a flash into their new bodies and become rulers with Christ during the thousand-year rule."

*  I recommend Chris White's video on the timing of the Gog/Magog War in Ezekiel 37 and 38. White successfully debunks the various theories that this war will occur prior to the return of Jesus Christ. He also outlines the difficulties associated with the battle of Armageddon view. (Revelation 19). White's view that the Gog/Magog war will take place at the end of the millennium is worth consideration. (Revelation 20:7-9).  The Timing of the Gog Magog War - YouTube

 

1. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Torah observance (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

2. Strong's Greek: 3880. παραλαμβάνω (paralambanó) -- to receive from (biblehub.com)
3. Is the Meaning of Harpagēsometha in 1 Thess 4:17 'Rapture' or 'Plunder'? Part 6 - Ep. 131 | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)

PROPHECY ROUNDTABLE: JOHN HALLER AND MODERN JUDAIZERS DOUG HAMP AND SCOTT HARWELL

TIMING OF THE RESURRECTION & "RAPTURE"! Prophecy Roundtable - End-Times Chat - YouTube  19th February 2021

Doug Hamp and Scott Harwell are Torah-observant infiltrators of the church who actively seek to put believers under the Mosaic Law. (Galatians 2:12) Torah-observance, is, for all intents and purposes, an insidious version of the Hebrew Roots Movement. This movement has been rejected by many orthodox Christians as heretical.

This series of Prophecy Round Table videos are touted as "An Entertaining End Times Chat" and "A Fun End-Times Chat". There is nothing lighthearted about the weighty subjects being discussed; they are neither "entertaining" or "fun". These "chats" surreptitiously promote the heretical teachings of the modern Judaizers and are extremely dangerous. Hamp and Harwell are amongst those false teachers we are warned to "mark and avoid" by the Apostle Paul. (Romans 16:17). Hamp's tactic is to downplay any objections we may raise about keeping the Mosaic Law. In these informal "chats", Hamp attempts to sweep our concerns aside and make the subject appear "reasonable". (2 Corinthians 11:3).

Alan Kurschner (Eschatos Ministries) has been a guest on Prophecy Roundtable twice. On both occasions he successfully debunked the false teachings of Hamp and Harwell. It is worth listening to Kurschner's seven reasons why Israel, not the church, is the woman in Revelation 12. (1.06 mark) {1}

Doug Hamp is the President, and Scott Harwell is a Director of The Commonwealth of Israel Foundation, an organization that promotes Commonwealth Theology, a subject I am currently researching and intend to critique at a later date. {2} 

On his website, Hamp blatantly mis-teaches the Levitical dietary laws and applies them to Christians. He teaches that "unclean animals" were never designated as food in the scriptures. This contradicts Genesis 9:3 when every moving thing was designated as food after the flood. For further information on this subject please refer to my previous post on the link below. 

John Haller is an elder at Fellowship Bible Chapel in Sunbury, Ohio. Unfortunately Haller has some issues and it is regrettable that he supports false teacher and heretic James Prasch aka Jacob Prasch of Moriel Ministries. Haller has had very little input in these "chats". He does not seem to have any fixed views on questions such as the timing of the rapture and the identity of the woman in Revelation 12 etc. In his favour, on this particular occasion, he pushed back against the Torah-observers, despite being outnumbered three to one. Haller looked unhappy throughout the entire video ~ understandably so.

  

This weeks "roundtable" featured teacher and author Hollisa Alewine complete with head covering.

Alewine has a teaching ministry called "The Creation Gospel". She majors on the Jewish feasts and her stated aim is: "Getting Torah out to the nations". {3} 

I have obviously made an error, I thought that Jesus' command in the Great Commission was getting the Gospel out to the nations! (Matthew 28:16-20).

Hollisa Alewine's videos appear on the Hebraic Roots Network.

"The Hebraic Roots Network is your source for Hebrew Roots teachings." {4}

There can be no doubt that Allewine's agenda is precisely the same as modern Judaizers Hamp and Harwell i.e. to usurp the Gospel in favour of Torah-observance.

In this video, Hamp, Alewine and Harwell did a hard sell on the Talmud ~ the written version of the Oral Law. It should be noted that the Talmud aka "the tradition of the elders" is the Pharisaical tradition Jesus vociferously condemned during His ministry. (Mark 7:1-13). The Pharisees arose illegitimately during the intertestamental period and are not mentioned at all in the Old Testament. These were the false teachers who rejected Jesus Christ and did not enter the sheepfold by the door. (John 10:1-17). The false claim of the Pharisees was that God not only gave Moses the written Torah, but that He also gave him the Oral Torah as recorded in the rabbinic writings such as the Talmud the Mishnah. The Pharisees were rank heretics who added their own laws to the existing Mosaic covenant and severely perverted the scriptures. (Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32  cf. Revelation 22:19). The oral tradition of the rabbis does not represent biblical orthodox Judaism in any way whatsoever! As such, I would not recommend the Talmud as a valid resource for spiritual instruction, despite Hamp's repeated encouragement to "just try it".
..Did God really say...? (Genesis 3:1). Why settle for corrupt Jewish tradition when we have the inerrant word of God? The church is confused enough without adding the Talmud into the mix as a source of truth!  

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, (2 Timothy 3:16).

And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.. (2 Peter 1:19).

Alewine Alert! 

Alewine: "Twice Paul does tell the assemblies, 'keep the traditions just as I passed them on to you', and when you look that up in Greek, it is specifically referring to Jewish Oral Law."  (48:00 mark)

On the two occasions Paul uses term "traditions" favourably, he refers to his teaching and his written epistles as authoritative for the churches. The verses cited by Alewine do not refer to the Jewish Oral Law.

Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. (1 Corinthians 11:2).

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. (2 Thessalonians 2:15).

tradition - Gk paradosis 

the tradition of the elders ~ (the Jewish Oral Law) condemned in the NT.  (Matthew 15:2-6; Mark 7:1-13).

human tradition ~ (philosophy and empty deceit) condemned by Paul. (Colossians 2:8).

the apostolic tradition ~ the inspired teaching of the apostles passed on to the churches. (2 Timothy 2:2).

Alewine says many more questionable things on this video. Her defective exegesis demonstrates precisely why we need to be extremely wary of those who teach Torah-observance. (2 Timothy 2:15; Acts 17:11).

Harwood has nothing to say of any substance. He makes questionable and sometimes very silly statements without backing them up with exegesis. For instance he states that the wedding supper will take place in the the clouds. The wedding supper takes place after the rapture. (Revelation 19:1,7-8). It appears to take place in heaven at some point before Jesus returns with his armies dressed in fine linen white and pure.. (Revelation 19:14). 

In my view, the best thing Haller could do is to withdraw from these Judaizers post-haste! To associate with them and to participate in these "chats" gives them credibility as bone fide Christians. I was pleased to see him challenge their skewed ideas, but frankly I think it is wiser to have nothing to do with them at all. These men are cursed enemies of Jesus Christ who seek to put believers back under the Mosaic Law. (Galatians 3:19).

Torah-observance and biblical Christianity is actually a contradiction in terms. 

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:6-9).

1. (1) IS THE WOMAN IN REV 12 MARY, ISRAEL, CHURCH? Prophecy Roundtable: A Fun End-Times Chat! - YouTube
2. Commonwealth of Israel Foundation: BELIEFS
3. (1) Hollisa mySTORy - YouTube
4. Hebraic Roots Network | Revive TV | Taking Torah & Yeshua To The Nations

Further Link

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: DOUG HAMP: CLEAN VERSUS UNCLEAN FOOD # THE HERESY OF THE JUDAIZERS REGURGITATED (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

DOUG HAMP: CLEAN VERSUS UNCLEAN FOOD # THE HERESY OF THE JUDAIZERS REGURGITATED

(1) 1 Cor 8 Meat Offered to Idols - To Eat or Not to Eat!? The Way Congregation - YouTube

Torah-observance is a diverse subject that means different things to groups of professing Christians who believe that aspects of the Mosaic Law have continuing validity and applicability under the new covenant. These groups are known by various names such as as Torah-observant, Hebrew Roots, Sacred Name, Messianic, Awakening Movement etc. The consensus amongst most orthodox Christians is that the Mosaic Law is no longer applicable under the new covenant. 

I am very wary of any group that teaches Torah-observance as a requirement for bible believing Christians whether they are mild or draconian in their views. Torah-observance was considered to be at odds with the gospel by the apostle Paul. (Galatians 2:14). The false doctrine of the Judaizers was dealt with by the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 and was strongly condemned by Paul in the book of Galatians. 

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, (2 Corinthians 3:7). 

Full Torah observance necessitates obedience to all 613 Mosaic Laws (Mitzvot), the majority of which depend on the existence of a temple, a priesthood, animal sacrifices, and living as a theocratic nation within the Land of Israel. Since full Torah-observance is impractical, many of these groups limit their observance to the dietary laws, the Sabbath and the annual Feasts (or mo'adim, Holy Days). However partial observance of the Torah contradicts the apostles teaching: For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. (James 2:10).

One argument I have heard from Torah-observant teachers is that God's Word is eternal and cannot be broken. As such they argue that God's instructions regarding the ceremonial laws are current and that the requirements of the Mosaic Law is incumbent upon believers. This line of reasoning is a logical fallacy i.e. because the premise is true, the conclusion must be true. What teachers of Torah-observance fail to grasp (apparently) is that God's plan in giving the Torah was an object lesson for ancient Israel, not to the nations. The problem was not the Torah, but Israel's inability to keep it. Paul affirms that the law is good and that is was made for sinners i.e. for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, he sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. (1 Timothy 1:8-11). Paul defines various sins that apply to the moral law, but he makes no reference to the ceremonial law in this passage. Elsewhere he says: .. let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. (Colossians 2:16). Torah-observance is no longer required, since the first covenant has become obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). Animal sacrifices and other ceremonial laws foreshadowed events that would be accomplished by Jesus Christ and therefore are not a requirement for Christians. Those who have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ are “not under the law” (Romans 6:14, 7:4; Galatians 5:18). Despite many clear statements in the New Testament, some teachers persist in teaching that Torah-observance is necessary for Christians today and they integrate it into the new covenant. This false teaching contradicts "faith alone" without the works of the law ~ it is in fact a different gospel. (Galatians 1:6; 2:16). 

Doug Hamp is a Torah-observant non-Jewish author/pastor who teaches that it is incumbent upon Christians to observe certain Mosaic ceremonial laws. In his case (as far as I am aware) he applies Torah-observance to clean and unclean foods, Sabbath observance and the Jewish feasts. 

Referring to clean/unclean foods, Hamp suggests that those of us who see no necessity to observe the Levitical food requirements have been badly taught, that we are ignorant, and that we need to revise our understanding. According to Hamp, once Christians have been relieved of their ignorance, the onus upon them to keep the Levitical food laws. Hamp's position is that the Levitical food laws are a given, i.e. unclean animals were never designated as food in the scriptures. Hamp redefines "food" (as most of us understand the term) to apply exclusively to ..animals that He said we can eat.. those are to be received with thanksgiving. (1 Timothy 4:1-5). According to Hamp, food sanctified (set apart) by the Word of God applies only to the clean animals as defined in the Mosaic Law (Leviticus 11). By redefining "food " in this way, Hamp circumvents the scriptures concerning clean/unclean food in the New Testament. 

Hamp contradicts God's word to Noah prior to the Levitical laws:

Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. (Genesis 9:3).

..every creeping thing/moving thing (re·mes) ~ literally everything that is alive. Strong's #7431: remes a reptile or any other rapidly moving animal:--that creepeth, creeping (moving) thing. {1}

The distinction between clean/unclean animals in Genesis 9 was made for the purpose of sacrifice after the ark rested on Ararat. 

Then Noah built an altar to the LORD. And taking from every kind of clean animal and clean bird, he offered burnt offerings on the altar. (Genesis 8:20).

Hamp: "Seven of each clean were taken for food – only one pair of unclean which were not fit to eat. Had he eaten the pig back then, there would not be any today." 

Either Hamp is ignorant or he is deliberately misleading his readers! The object of taking the animals into the ark was to preserve every species. Noah and his family consumed vegetables on the ark. No animals were consumed as food until after the postdiluvian covenant God made with Noah, his family and the animals (every living creature), confirmed by the sign of the rainbow: ..Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. (Genesis 9:1-17).

Peters Vision: Acts 10:9-33

Undoubtedly the vision concerned Peter's Jewish prejudice against the Gentiles who were considered "unclean" i.e. they were considered unfit to receive the gospel. However, considering the context and the explicit reference to food, Peter's vision would be extremely odd if we limited its interpretation exclusively to this single application. The wider application of Peter's vision was the abolition of the ceremonial laws under the new covenant.

Peter became hungry and wanted something to eat. The vision: In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.” This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.(Acts 10:10-16 cf. Matthew 15:11; Romans 14:20).

Barnes: "The ceremonial laws of the Jews were designed solely to keep up the distinction between them and other nations. When the distinction was abolished; when other nations were to be admitted to the same privileges, the laws which were made to keep up such a difference received their death-blow, and expired of course. For it is a maxim of all law, that when the reason why a law was made ceases to exist, the law becomes obsolete.." {2} 

Doug Hamp:

How Romans 14 is Misused to Justify Eating Unclean Animals | DouglasHamp.com

Romans 14

Hamp: "Romans 14 is a discussion about the weak person who thinks that he ought not eat meat and should only eat vegetables. It is NOT about whether a person can eat unclean animals."

Paul is writing about believers whose faith is "weak",  in that they eat only vegetables due to their scruples about meat possibly sacrificed to an idol. Romans 14:2 cannot refer to someone who thinks that he should only eat vegetables since vegetarianism was not traditionally a component of mainstream pre-modern Judaism. (see 1 Corinthians 8:1-13).

Barnes: "This question the apostle discussed and settled in 1 Corinthians 10:20-32, which see. In that place the general principle is laid down, that it was lawful to partake of that meat as a man would of any other, 'unless it was expressly pointed out to him as having been sacrificed to idols, and unless his partaking of it would be considered as countenancing the idolators in their worship;'"  {3}

Paul goes on to discuss the relevance of observing certain days. There is obviously some liberty given to believers concerning these matters. The danger is that those who observe certain days, and those who have scruples about food sacrificed to idols, will impose their views upon others. Conversely, those who have no such scruples should not be brazen and disregard the scruples of the "weaker" brother/sister. It is clear enough surely.

One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes a special day does so to the Lord; he who eats does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. Romans 14:5-6).

The danger of Torah-observance

In effect Torah-observance produces an elitist two-tier system of believers: the more spiritual Christians who observe the Mosaic Law and the less spiritual Christians who do not. These teachings actually invert the scriptures ~ it was the observers of ceremonial laws who were "weak" and non-observers who were "strong" according to Paul.

The majority of Torah-observant Christians are non-Jewish. Consideration should be given as to why non-Jews are so eager to observe the Torah.. laws that were given exclusively to ancient Israel under the old covenant. God did not judge the surrounding nations for neglecting the ceremonial laws, such as eating "unclean" food. (Acts 15:1-35). 

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:23-29).

Torah-observance has an outward appearance of holiness and obedience to God. In reality it stands in opposition to the the Law of Christ aka the Law of the Spirit and puts believers at great risk of falling away from Christ and becoming legalistic Judaizers.  

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”.... (Galatians 3:10).

1. Strong's Hebrew: 7431. רֶ֫מֶשׂ (remes) -- creeping things, moving things (biblehub.com)
2. Acts 10:15 Commentaries: Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy." (biblehub.com)

3. Romans 14 Barnes' Notes (biblehub.com)

FALSE TEACHER "JACOB" PRASCH ENDORSED @ PROPHECY ROUNDTABLE # DOUG HAMP # JOHN HALLER # SCOTT HARWELL # ALAN KURSCHNER

 (44) Is Revelation Chronological? Prophecy Roundtable: An Entertaining End Times Chat! - YouTube

The above YouTube video is a discussion on the question of whether the book of Revelation is written thematically or chronologically with Doug Hamp, John Haller, Scott Harwell and "special guest" Alan Kurschner. The description: "An Entertaining End Times Chat” depreciates the critical importance of this subject for the church, especially considering that many believers are both deceived and confused about the timing of the rapture. Entertaining the masses to get clicks and hits seems to be the goal of many so called ministries today! The video was beset with technical problems and came across as amateurish. 

Doug Hamp is the President, and Scott Harwell is a Director, of The Commonwealth of Israel Foundation. {1}  

John Haller is an elder at Fellowship Bible Chapel in Sunbury, Ohio, and is a long time supporter of the false teacher known as "Jacob" Prasch.

Alan Kurschner (Eschatos Ministries) outclassed his roundtable associates with his considerable expertise. Kurschner kept his dignity, despite being subjected to Doug Hamp's discourteous behavior concerning "theophanic storms", i.e. the phrase he has employed to describe various storms that occur in the book of Revelation. Hamp: "I don't think calling them 'theophanic storms' lessens their severity just because we have a fancy theological name for them.. in my opinion.. ..I am not persuaded that it is a 'god storm', I think that's a cheap shot." (44:00 mark) I have not heard Kurschner apply the phrase "theophanic storms" to the Revelation 6 cosmic disturbances. As far as I am aware, he applies the phrase to Revelation 8:5; 11:19 and 16:17 (though he may not limit the phrase to those particular storms?). The wicked know exactly what is occurring in Revelation 6 and they witness a visible manifestation of God, in other words, they witness a theophany prior to the outpouring of God's wrath. As such it does not seem inappropriate to call these various storms "theophanic". One thing I have observed is that Alan Kurschner does not make cheap shots!

..calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb..  (Revelation 6:16).

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. (Mark 13:24-27).

Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. (Revelation 11:19).

Hamp's eisegesis concerning the sixth seal and the seventh seal trumpets and bowls is neither well researched or thought out. The book of Revelation is written chronologically from chapters 4-12 and from chapter 12 onwards apart from parenthetical breaks. It therefore seems unlikely that the numerical sequence should be broken by defining the sixth seal cosmic disturbances as the final seventh seal judgements. Kurshner's chronological argument is the most logical, and more importantly, it can be demonstrated exegetically.

Hamp's thematic argument is that the sixth seal cosmic disturbances of Revelation 6 are so severe, that in his opinion, they are not a portent of impending wrath, but are rather a description of the end itself. The cosmic disturbances are certainly extreme and terrifying. However, we should not make the assumption that they equate to the final wrath of God as described in the seventh seal passages. As Kurschner points out elsewhere, "similarity does not equal identity". {2} 

The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. (Joel 2:31) Acts 2:20 repeats Joel 2:31 and confirms the definition of before/πρὶν. 

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place. Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?” (Revelation 6:12-17).

Immediately after the tribulation of those days: The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31). This passage concerns the rapture, which occurs immediately after the cosmic disturbances, before the onset of the Day of the Lord, hence the term "prewrath". Hamp's problematic position places him firmly in the post-trib, not in the prewrath camp.  

JACOB PRASCH HAS BEEN EXPOSED AS A CULT LEADER, A LIAR AND A FALSE TEACHER!

I was disturbed to see Scott Harwell giving credibility to Jacob Prasch's intra-seal nonsense. Prasch's intra-seal theory is a confusing concoction that incorporates various pre-trib and prewrath elements with no small dash of eisegesis. Hasn't enough evidence been submitted concerning Prasch's Metatron heresy? Furthermore, it is shameful to even mention the name of a man who has provably lied about his identity and faux "Jewish" background, not to mention various other unsavoury episodes. Prasch's nonsense has been thoroughly debunked and should not have crept into this discussion! (3) If we want a credible discussion about eschatology then "Jacob", or rather James Prasch's ravings should be entirely disregarded! How many times does this have to be said? It is the responsibility of leaders to protect the flock from deceivers like this, not to promote them! Believers should mark and avoid such people:

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. (Romans 6:17).

Scott Harwell pleads almost total ignorance of Prasch's Metatron heresy in his response to my YouTube comment. Harwell's excuses for Prasch, are, I suspect, yet another case of willful ignorance:

This does not clear it up! Prasch has taught unequivocally that the Metatron is Jesus Christ:

https://www.moriel.org/teaching/sermons-in-afrikaans/metatrone-afrikaans.html

Below is a link to Chris Rosebrough's video exposing Prasch's failed attempt at identity fraud. I add the "caveat" that I do not hold Rosebrough's Lutheran views.

(46) F4F | What the Evidence Shows Regarding Prasch's Ancestry - YouTube

1. About (commonwealthofisrael.com)
2. Why the Bowls Follow AFTER the Trumpet Judgements: The FINAL Storm Theophany (Part 6) – Ep. 158 | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
3. THE INTRA-SEAL RAPTURE DECEPTION EXPOSED: As devised and taught by Jacob Prasch eBook: GISBORN, TREENA: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store