ANDY WOODS: 'ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED' DEBUNKED

Neo Calvinism vs. The Bible 038 - Hebrews 11:29. Dr. Andy Woods. 8-3-25.G

Many evangelicals promote the idea of eternal security, also known as "once saved, always saved" (OSAS). However, it is critical to note that OSAS is unbiblical. In fact, the concept of unconditional eternal security was not introduced until the Reformation in the sixteenth century, approximately 1,500 years after the formation of the church. The Calvinist doctrine of "the perseverance of the saints", the P in TULIP, is a key teaching connected to what Calvin described as "the horrible decree", i.e., the doctrine of double predestination. John Calvin (1509-1564) argued that salvation is unconditional and that believers are assured of their eternal salvation.1 Woods' version of OSAS, "the preservation of the saints", is a modification of Calvinism. However, OSAS was never taught in any form until the Reformation.  

 

The teaching that faith plus works done in faith is the biblical model for believers following initial salvation. The false doctrine of "works salvation" is not contradicted by this teaching. Believers are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. However, the scriptures indicate a process of continuing in faith following conversion.

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10).

The following scriptures collectively emphasize the importance of remaining steadfast in faith and obedience to God. They confirm that salvation is not simply a one-off event, but that it is a continual process involving the active commitment of believers to walk by faith: Matthew 7:21-23; 2 Peter 2:20-22; Ezekiel 18:24; Hebrews 6:4-6; Revelation 3:5. Verses like Jude 1:24, John 3:16,10:27. Ephesians 4:30 and Romans 8:38-39 do not negate personal responsibility of believers to walk by faith. The command to "make disciples" is often neglected due to this dangerous teaching. (Matthew 28:19). The result is that many believers' salvation is put at risk. They either are not sufficiently motivated to follow their high calling and fail to meet their potential. Even worse, they may apostasize and yet still believe themselves to be saved. 

Woods' "proof text" below includes the phrase "guarded through faith".

According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Peter 1:3-5).

Ellicott: "Through faith.--The Apostle is fearful lest the last words should give a false assurance. God can guard none of us, in spite of His 'power,' unless there be a corresponding exertion upon our part--which is here called 'faith'--combining the notions of staunch fidelity and of trustfulness in spite of appearances. It is through such trustful fidelity that we are guarded."2 

Benson: "through faith — Through the continued exercise of that faith, by which alone salvation is both received and retained..2 

Woods cites various examples from the "Hall of Faith" in Romans 11. Woods: "Abraham was justified right when he believed. Justification is something that already happened. So there is no big question mark if you have trusted in Christ for your salvation as to your justification, and there is no question mark as to your glorification.."

Nevertheless, Abraham was put to the test. It was by his act of faith that he was justified.

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son.. (Hebrews 11:17 cf Genesis 22:1-18). 

Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? / You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. / And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. (James 2:21-23).

 
Woods' examples are interesting, but they do not constitute final evidence of eternal security. We are certainly not looking at sinless perfection in Paul's examples, and inevitably, all of them sinned to some degree, some worse than others. Only God knows the particular circumstances of each individual's life and their heart condition before Him. 

I do take issue with some of Woods' conclusions; specifically, the question of whether Samson committed suicide. Scholars have debated this question, and most take the view that although Samson's actions resulted in his death, it was not strictly suicide. That is because Samson’s mission was to kill the Philistines and to take the lead in saving the Israelites from oppression. (Judges 13:5). Samson achieved his ultimate goal that day by killing over 3,000 Philistines. Commentators have reasoned that Samson sacrificed himself to finish the work God had called him to do, and that his death was a result, not the aim of his actions. It should be noted that he sought the Lord about his actions and asked for the strength to avenge the Philistines, and he asked God to let him die with the Philistines. 

Then Samson called to the Lord and said, “O Lord God, please remember me and please strengthen me only this once, O God, that I may be avenged on the Philistines for my two eyes.” And Samson grasped the two middle pillars on which the house rested, and he leaned his weight against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other. And Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines.” Then he bowed with all his strength, and the house fell upon the lords and upon all the people who were in it. So the dead whom he killed at his death were more than those whom he had killed during his life. (Judges 16:28-30).

In contrast, the narrative concerning Saul is completely different. Samuel informed Saul that the Lord had turned against him and had become his enemy. (1 Samuel 28:16). Samuel prophesied that the Lord would deliver Israel into the hands of the Philistines and that the next day, Saul and his sons would die in battle. (1 Samuel 28). The end result was that Saul took his own life to avoid capture after being severely wounded by the Philistines.

Now the Philistines were fighting against Israel, and the men of Israel fled before the Philistines and fell slain on Mount Gilboa. And the Philistines overtook Saul and his sons, and the Philistines struck down Jonathan and Abinadab and Malchi-shua, the sons of Saul. The battle pressed hard against Saul, and the archers found him, and he was badly wounded by the archers. Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and mistreat me.” But his armor-bearer would not, for he feared greatly. Therefore Saul took his own sword and fell upon it. 5And when his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell upon his sword and died with him. Thus Saul died, and his three sons, and his armor-bearer, and all his men, on the same day together. And when the men of Israel who were on the other side of the valley and those beyond the Jordan saw that the men of Israel had fled and that Saul and his sons were dead, they abandoned their cities and fled. And the Philistines came and lived in them. (1 Samuel 31:1-7).

Regarding the phrase spoken by Samuel: "..tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me." (1 Samuel 28:19). There is much discussion in the commentaries about this verse, and I do not regard this phrase as proof positive that Saul was saved. Samuel's statement may be referring to Sheol. (1 Samuel 25:1). At that time, Sheol or Hades was the abode of departed spirits of righteous and wicked alike. (Job 3:17; 2 Samuel 12:23).3 It is interesting that the Septuagint or the LXX translation of I Samuel 28:19 reads: “and to-morrow thou and thy sons with thee shall fall". If this 2nd-century translation is more accurate, then Samuel may have simply been referring to their death.4 

For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 1:3-5).

Woods teaches that the Israelites destroyed in the wilderness lost their physical lives but that ultimately they were saved. However, God's response to Moses was, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of My book. (Exodus 32:33). Furthermore, the context of Jude discredits Woods' assertion. Jude continues his epistle with the example of the angels who rebelled and were punished with eternal destruction, i.e., the same punishment as those who sinned in Sodom and Gomorrah > eternal fire:

And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgement of the great day— just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. (Jude 1:6-7).

Paul also refers to the Israelites who were overthrown in the wilderness: Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. (1 Corinthians 10:1-12 cf. 2 Peter 3:17 ).

Paul warned the Galatians that to fall away from grace is to be severed from Christ: You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. (Galatians 5:4).

To be severed from Christ necessitates that one must have been attached to Christ previously. Similarly to fall away from grace also necessitates prior attachment.

Meyer: "But all the admonitions, from 1 Corinthians 10:6 onwards (see, too, 1 Corinthians 10:14), have a direct reference to falling into sins, the consequence of which is a falling from grace so as to come under the divine ὀργή {wrath}(comp Galatians 5:4)."5  

The Ante-Nicene Fathers

The scriptures are always our first priority. However, it is very interesting that the early church fathers did not recognize OSAS.   

“Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. But often shall ye come together, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if ye be not made perfect in the last time.” (Didache, A.D.140)

“That eternal fire has been prepared for him as he apostatized from God of his own free-will, and likewise for all who unrepentant continue in the apostasy, he now blasphemes, by means of such men, the Lord who brings judgment [upon him] as being already condemned, and imputes the guilt of his apostasy to his Maker, not to his own voluntary disposition.” (Justin Martyr, fragment in Irenaeus’ Against Heresies, 5:26:1, A.D.156)

“Christ shall not die again in behalf of those who now commit sin, for death shall no more have dominion over Him; but the Son shall come in the glory of the Father, requiring from His stewards and dispensers the money which He had entrusted to them, with usury; and from those to whom He had given most shall He demand most. We ought not, therefore, as that presbyter remarks, to be puffed up, nor be severe upon those of old time, but ought ourselves to fear, lest perchance, after [we have come to] the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from His kingdom. And therefore it was that Paul said, ‘For if [God] spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest He also spare not thee, who, when thou wert a wild olive tree, wert grafted into the fatness of the olive tree, and wert made a partaker of its fatness.’” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:27:2 A.D. 180)

“But some think as if God were under a necessity of bestowing even on the unworthy, what He has engaged (to give); and they turn His liberality into slavery. But if it is of necessity that God grants us the symbol of death, then He does so unwillingly. But who permits a gift to be permanently retained which he has granted unwillingly? For do not many afterward fall out of (grace)? Is not this gift taken away from many?” (Tertullian, On Repentance, 6 A.D. 204)

“Therefore, the ones who are pardoned are those who slip into sin unintentionally and incautiously. He who sins willfully has no pardon.” (Lactantius, A.D. 304)

“By believing in Him you will live. But by disbelieving you will be punished.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)

“Grace with the Lord, when once learned and undertaken by us, should never afterward be cancelled by repetition of sin.” (Tertullian, A.D. 203)

“He who keeps them will be glorified in the kingdom of God. However, he who chooses other things will be destroyed with his works.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)

“We ought therefore, brethren, carefully to inquire concerning our salvation. Otherwise, the wicked one, having made his entrance by deceit, may hurl us forth from our life.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)

“Let us therefore repent with the whole heart, so that none of us perish by the way.” (Second Clement, A.D. 150)

“I hold further, that those of you who have confessed and known this man to be Christ, yet who have gone back for some reason to the legal dispensation [i.e. the Mosaic Law] and have denied that this man is Christ, and have not repented before death—you will by no means be saved.” (Justin Martyr, A.D. 160)

“Rather, we should fear ourselves, lest perchance, after we have come to the knowledge of Christ, if we do those things displeasing to God, we obtain not further forgiveness for sin, but are shut out of His kingdom.” (Irenaeus, A.D. 180)

“He who hopes for everlasting rest knows also that the entrance to it is toilsome and narrow. So let him who has once received the gospel not turn back.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)

“God gives forgiveness of past sins. However, as to future sins, each one procures this for himself. He does this by repenting, by condemning past deeds, and by begging the Father to blot them out.” (Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 195)

“The world returned to sin…and so it is destined to fire. So is the man who after baptism renews his sins.” (Tertullian, A.D. 198)

“Rather they must be preserved. It is not the actual attainment, but the perfecting, that keeps a man for God.” (Cyprian, A.D. 250)

“A son who deserts his father in order not to pay him obedience is considered deserving of being disinherited and having his name removed forever from his family.” (Lactaintius, A.D. 304)

“He who sins after baptism, unless he forsakes his sins, will be condemned to Gehenna.” (Apostolic Constitutions, A.D. 390)

“These things, beloved, we write unto you, not merely to admonish you of your duty, but also to remind ourselves. For we are struggling on the same arena, and the same conflict is assigned to both of us. Wherefore let us give up vain and fruitless cares, and approach to the glorious and venerable rule of our holy calling. Let us attend to what is good, pleasing, and acceptable in the sight of Him who formed us. Let us look stedfastly to the blood of Christ, and see how precious that blood is to God, which, having been shed for our salvation, has set the grace of repentance before the whole world. Let us turn to every age that has passed, and learn that, from generation to generation, the Lord has granted a place of repentance to all such as would be converted unto Him. Noah preached repentance, and as many as listened to him were saved. Jonah proclaimed destruction to the Ninevites but they, repenting of their sins, propitiated God by prayer, and obtained salvation, although they were aliens [to the covenant] of God.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 7:33-36)

“Day and night ye were anxious for the whole brotherhood, that the number of God’s elect might be saved with mercy and a good conscience.” (Clement to the Corinthians, 2:7, 8)

“On account of envy, Aaron and Miriam had to make their abode without the camp. Envy brought down Dathan and Abiram alive to Hades.”(Clement to the Corinthians, 4:20, 21)

“Having obtained good proof that thy mind is fixed in God as upon an immovable rock, I loudly glorify [His name] that I have been thought worthy [to behold] thy blameless face which may I ever enjoy in God! I entreat thee, by the grace with which thou art clothed, to press forward in thy course, and to exhort all that they may be saved. Maintain thy position with all care, both in the flesh and spirit.” (The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp, 1:1)

“What we gather from all these quotes is that the early Church believed one was saved by faith in Christ and His blood, apart from works. That we’re redeemed and washed from our sins, there must be repentance, if one sinned and did not repent they would be lost. They believed God’s foreknowledge and predestination, and they believed by blaspheming the Holy Spirit and/or forsaking God that one would lose salvation.” unknown

“God is a God of mercy and compassion, He is long suffering, patient, and willing to call you back, but if one persists in willful abandonment and blasphemy against His Spirit, how can He put up with that?” unknown

Justin Martyr- c. 100/114AD – c. 162/168 AD. He was another early Christian apologist (defender) of the faith and was martyred by beheading. His works represent the earliest surviving Christian apologies of notable size:

• Man acts by his own free will and not by fate. (20)

• We have learned from the prophets, and we hold it to be true, that punishments, chastisements, and rewards are rendered according to the merit of each man’s actions. Otherwise, if all things happen by fate, then nothing is in our own power. For if it be predestined that one man be good and another man evil, then the first is not deserving of praise or the other to be blamed. Unless humans have the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions-whatever
they may be…. For neither would a man be worthy of reward or praise if he did not of himself choose the good, but was merely created for that end. Likewise, if a man were evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable to do anything else than what he was made for.(21)

• But that you may not have a pretext for saying that Christ must have been crucified, and that those who transgressed must have been among your nation, and that the matter could not have been otherwise, I said briefly by anticipation, that God, wishing men and angels to follow His will, resolved to create them free to do righteousness; possessing reason, that they may know by whom they are created, and through whom they, not existing formerly, do now exist; and with a law that they should be judged by Him, if they do anything contrary to right reason: and of ourselves we, men and angels, shall be convicted of having acted sinfully, unless we repent beforehand. But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall be certainly punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably [wadicked], but not because God had created them so.

Andy Woods' rebuttal against Neo Calvinism is correct in many respects. However, his failure to recognize the false doctrine of OSAS is a lethal error. Problematically, Woods is a hyper-dispensationalist who teaches that the Church began after the events of the Book of Acts, as against Pentecost. He promotes the false hope of the pretribulation rapture, and in doing so, he denies the obvious fact that the Olivet Discourse references the rapture! When teachers put their own spin on the scriptures, incalculable damage is done to the body of Christ.  

1. John Calvin: Institutes of the Christian Religion - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
2. 1 Peter 1:5 Commentaries: who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
3. 1 Samuel 28:19 Commentaries: "Moreover the LORD will also give over Israel along with you into the hands of the Philistines, therefore tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Indeed the LORD will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines!"
4. 1 Samuel 28 Brenton's Septuagint Translation
5. 1 Corinthians 10:12 Commentaries: Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.

https://earlychristianwritings.com/churchfathers.html

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Search results for OSAS

7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie)

ANDY WOODS + PAUL WILKINSON: IS THE RAPTURE A SECONDARY ISSUE?

PPOV 346. Drs. Paul Wilkinson & Andy Woods discuss Christian Palestinianism. 3-21-25.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:12).

In this post, I am focusing on the above video from the 39-minute mark, when Andy Woods and Paul Wilkinson discuss "..rehabilitating John Nelson Darby and C.I. Scofield, and why the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture is under such vociferous attack today". For Woods and Wilkinson, the pretrib rapture is a primary issue, aka "the blessed hope". 

Darby's claim of direct revelation 

Paul Wilkinson purports to be an expert on John Nelson Darby, having supposedly written a PhD thesis on the subject. In this video, Wilkinson blatantly distorts several facts about Darby, beginning with the false claim that Darby arrived at the pretrib view by studying the scriptures.

Wilkinson: "Where did his (Darby's) understanding of the rapture come from? It didn't come immediately, but as he himself writes, in his own writings, he got it from studying the word.." (49:00 mark)

Darby - in his own words, claimed that God Himself revealed dispensational hermeneutics to him directly. 

Darby: "..what God has with infinite graciousness revealed to me concerning His dealing with the Church.."1 

"..it was in this the Lord was pleased, without man's teaching, first to open my eyes on this subject, that I might learn His will concerning it throughout."2 

Darby's claim of direct revelation from God puts the whole premise of his authenticity and the pretrib rapture on shaky ground. Darby put himself on the same level as the first-century apostles. (Galatians 1:12 cf. 1 Corinthians 11:23). It is not surprising that Darby claimed to receive "direct revelation" since he was associated with the Irvingites, who were pioneers in reviving the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit within the church. There are good reasons to believe that the Irvingites were precursors to the modern Pentecostal Movement.3 In our generation, many have learned painful lessons from recently exposed false NAR "apostles" and "prophets" such as Mike Bickle and Todd Bentley. It is a fatal mistake to buy into an alleged "prophetic word" without rigorously testing it against the scriptures. (1 John 4:1). Darby's claim was absolutely huge! He denied the very words of Jesus Christ Himself by announcing that the warnings in the Olivet discourse do not apply to the church. Wilkinson failed to mention that Darby's "direct revelation" was vigorously challenged by his contemporaries. In my view, the pretrib rapture is one of the biggest deceptions to be foisted onto the modern church. The pretrib camp has worked very hard to shoehorn the pretrib rapture into the scriptures. They have also made exhaustive efforts to prove that pretrib predates Darby and can be found in the Church Fathers. However, in both these endeavors they have failed miserably.4 Believers should consider the consequences ahead of time before the false hopes of pretrib leaders fail to materialize and the Antichrist's persecution becomes a reality. 

Woods: "My question for you is, is this a secondary issue, because a lot of people say 'don't get wrapped up in this, this is a secondary issue'? My other question..  Is the fact that pretribulationalism is always under assault proof that pretribulationalism is probably the right one?"

Wilkinson: "Is it a secondary issue? Well, the apostle Paul in Titus 2 said it's our blessed hope.. that's my hope, that's the church's hope.. Wilkinson continues with a lot of platitudes but he offers no exegesis of the various texts he cites. He completes his answer by trotting out the overused trope that Christians should be looking for Christ, not the Antichrist.  

Woods: "What I am hearing you say is that this is not a secondary issue because what you believe about this changes your focus."  Woods brings out another overused trope about bridegroom imagery with the excuse that if we go through the tribulation, then God is a "spousal abuser". This worn-out argument can equally be levelled against the martyrdom and persecution of Christians throughout church history. In the West, Christians are living in a persecution-free bubble, but this is not the case in many other countries. The scriptures warn us to expect persecution. (John 15:20; Matthew 5:11-12; 1 Peter 4:12-14; Philippians 1:29, etc.) When the Antichrist arrives at the midpoint of the 70th week, worldwide persecution against Jews and Christians will escalate exponentially. When God gives explicit warnings then we would be wise to take notice rather than bury our heads in the sand and be taken off guard! The very warnings that Jesus gave to his disciples about the end of the age in the Olivet Discourse are magicked away by pretrib teachers. (Matthew 24:4). Woods and Wilkinson can be in denial as much as they like, but their denial does not invalidate God's word!  

Woods: "I don't think it is a secondary issue either and I mark and avoid people. I have a hard time appearing on their shows, appearing at their conferences.. A lot of them have contacted me and wanted to participate at our conferences and when I find out they are aggressively promoting some other perspective, I just have a difficult time unleashing them in front of God's people.."

To paraphrase Woods' second question: 'Because the pretrib rapture is always under assault is proof that it is probably the right doctrine..' This remark lacks depth and fails to adequately explain or respond to the major exegetical problems associated with the pretrib rapture. Woods should know better than to offer this kind of pat answer. The truth will always be attacked by those who oppose the scriptures, but on the other hand, false doctrines also come under heavy attack by those who rightly divide the word of truth and practice discernment. (1 Timothy 2:15).

Is the timing of the rapture a secondary issue?

I feel the same way as Andy Woods in reverse, i.e., I "mark and avoid" those who promote the pretrib view. (Romans 16:16-17). I am not willing to quietly sit in a congregation and watch others passively swallow the pretrib Kool-Aid to their own destruction. At best, I consider pretrib leaders to be heavily deceived; at worst, I consider them to be wolves. (1 Timothy 4:1). My concern is that when the Antichrist's persecution begins, many will fall away and apostatize. (Matthew 24:10). In other words, many will forfeit their faith on the altar of the pretrib rapture. The stakes are incredibly high! Pastors who fail to prepare God's people for the coming persecution are sinfully negligent. What will happen to pretrib teachers who fail to sound the horn? (Ezekiel 33:6). Woods has effectively shut down any challenge to pretribulationism, and it is difficult to miss his particular hostility towards the prewrath camp. He can't even bear to mention the name of Alan Kurschner or any other prominent prewrath teacher.   

Woods: "Now we have this very perverted view of Rosenthall, and others came up with this, and there are some younger expondents and proponents of that view that I don't want to mention on this show because I don't want to promote their stuff..   They don't attack mid trib, post trib - they are always aiming their guns at pretribulationism. "  This is not true! While the false pretrib rapture teaching is a major concern to those within the prewrath camp, other views have not been ignored! Midtribulationism does not come in for much critique because it is only held by a small minority and is easily debunked. However, postribulationism has received attention from Alan Kurschner and others.5 

Paul Wilkinson's appalling distortion of John Nelson Darby

   

Wilkinson's claim that Darby was an innocuous guy who simply went around teaching the bible is outrageous. How did Wilkinson manage to miss the firestorm against Darby from "Open" Brethren leaders George Müller, Benjamin Wills Newton, Samuel Tregelles, and James Grant? These men denounced Darby as a despot who maligned scripture. Darby was also condemned by Charles Spurgeon and DL Moody. In addition, it is undeniable that Scofield was an absolute scoundrel.* I do not like to call anyone an out-and-out liar, but in this instance, I can't find an alternative explanation for Wilkinson's dishonesty. (Psalm 107:7; Proverbs 12:22; Ephesians 4:25).

For an accurate account of John Nelson Darby, see Papers of John Nelson Darby published by the John Rylands University Library at the University of Manchester. 

Charles Spurgeon:

"Mr. Darby is, to all intents and purposes a thorough Pope, though under a Protestant name. He will never admit that he is in error; and therefore very naturally declines to argue with those who controvert the soundness of his views. How, indeed, could it be otherwise? If Mr. Darby holds, which he does, with a firm grasp, the principle that whatever conclusions he and those acting in conjunction with him may come to, express beyond all question the mind of the Spirit; and if those Darbyites who gather together in London, can go so far as to exclude all other denominations, even the most godly among them, 'believing themselves to be the one or only, assembly of God in London,' how need we feel surprised that Mr. Darby, as the 'prophet, priest, and king' of the party, should exercise a perfect despotism within the domains of Darbyism?"6 

George Müller:
"Scripture declares plainly that the Lord Jesus will not come until the Apostasy shall have taken place, and the man of sin shall have been revealed."7

Anthony Groves:

"As the years passed, he (Groves) became increasingly concerned with the drift of the Plymouth Brethren towards sectarianism under the leadership of Darby and aligned himself with George Müller. The split was complete in 1848 to form the Open Brethren and the Exclusive Brethren."8

Wilkinson: "I have to believe and accept and rightly handle the word of my Lord. That's how I'm going to be judged by my Lord.. Did I rightly teach His word? Did I rightly divide it? Did I faithfully teach it? Wilkinson is attending an Assemblies of God church in Wales. This is a huge red flag. The Assemblies of God are a Pentecostal denomination known for their involvement with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Given Wood's opposition to the charismatic movement, it is strange that he would even consider unleashing a man like Wilkinson onto his audience. Wilkinson's suspect "words" from the Lord, his dishonesty and revisionism of Darby, and his emotionalism are indications of self-deception and instability. (2 Timothy 3:13).

1. Reflections Upon The Prophetic Inquiry And The Views Advanced In It | Plymouth Brethren Writings
2. Evidence From Scripture of the Passing Away of the Present Dispensation - John Nelson Darby (#62234) - BTP
3. The Irvingites and the Gift of Tongues
4. Microsoft Word - Prewrath - Early Church Fathers.docx.
5. Articles for Posttribulationism to Consider | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES
6. Mr. Grant on "The Darby Brethren"
7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M%C3%BCller
8. Anthony Norris Groves - Borivali Assembly

Further Links

The "Darby Brethren"
Mr. Newton and the "Brethren"
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: LEE BRAINARD AND TOM HUGHES: PRETRIB DISHONESTY
* Heresy in the Heartland: C. I. Scofield: Scoundrel, Shyster, and Scalawag

ANDY WOODS FLOGGING A DEAD HORSE: APOSTASIA 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3

RAPTURE or NOT? That is the question!

There is no evidence to support the claim that ἀποστασία in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is a physical departure i.e. the rapture. A wide range of experts and even some pretrib teachers disagree with this interpretation. Woods has no further evidence to add to this overcooked argument, so why does he rake it up again?   

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion (apostasia) comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.  (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4). 

Blue Letter Bible: "ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ('apostasy'):—falling away, forsake."1 

Liddel and Scott: "ἀποστασία late form of ἀπόστασις defection."2  

During Alan Kurschner's debate with Thomas Ice in 2015, Kurschner attempted to settle this false claim once and for all. It was like pulling teeth, but eventually, Ice admitted that he could not provide any evidence to support this interpretation.  

Kurschner: "I just want to reaffirm here. You’re just mention that apostasia can refer to a physical departure, but you’re not able to produce a single instance in all of Koine Greek literature that apostasia ever means a physical departure. Is that correct?"

Ice: "I’m not able but Wayne House was."

Kurschner: "Okay. But you’re not able to give us what Wayne House…"

Ice: "I can’t give it to you here."  (Debate Transcript p. 57-58).3 

The "Wayne House" document provides no definitive evidence that ἀποστασία refers to a physical departure as in the rapture.4 Some early translations interpreted ἀποστασία as "departure", but in context, this refers to a departure from the faith. As Kurschner points out, the noun ἀποστασία in Koine Greek never refers to physical departure, it always refers to political or religious defection. 

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is a classic prewrath passage. Paul explains to the Thessalonians that "the day of the Lord" i.e. the Lord's wrath will not come unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed. (2 Thessalonians 2:3 cf. Matthew 24:10). There are thirty parallels between Jesus' teaching in the Olivet Discourse and Paul’s teaching in Thessalonians.5

The day of the Lord's wrath (orgé) is specifically tied to the trumpet and bowl judgements which do not occur until after the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:29 cf. Revelation 6:17; Revelation 8-9,15-16; Isaiah 13:9; Zephaniah 1:14-15 2 Peter 3:10). 

Andy Woods is highly regarded and well-buttressed by the pretrib camp. However, he is not beyond the reach of the Lord! Woods and other pretrib teachers should consider the devastating effects of this doctrine on the final generation of believers. It is likely that many pretrib believers will "fall away" due to failed expectations of deliverance from the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:10). Tragically, Olivier Melnick has come out of Judaism only to fall for the false pretrib rapture. How will Woods, Melnick, and others answer to the Lord on the day of judgement for leading many believers into apostasy? I fear for all those deceived by this false doctrine and I also fear for pretrib teachers themselves. But I tell you that men will give an account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned. (Matthew 12:36-37 cf. Romans 14:12).

The failing reputation of the pretrib camp 

Examples: 

* Lee Brainard's recent denial of imminence and his defective research into the early Church Fathers.6 

* Failed marriage counselor and spiritual abuser Jimmy Evans of Daystar infamy is "transitioning" out of XO Marriage and intends to devote himself to endtimes.com full-time. I have reported on the murky world of Jimmy Evans in previous posts. Evans' uptake of the name Endtimes Ministries is a usurpation of a completely different ministry called Endtime Ministries. Evans' subsequent unethical takeover of Endtime Ministries slot on Daystar is unsurprising given his previous ungodly behaviour.
* Mark Hitchcock is closely associated with Jimmy Evans and has recently endorsed him as an "expert".7

* Mark Hitchcock's recent claim that he has discovered "new evidence" of the pretrib rapture in Irenaeus is a regurgitation of old false claims.7

* Hitchcock and Evans recently promoted their new book together.8

* Prophecy Watchers give a platform to false teachers such as Jonathan Cahn who claims to be "prophetic", "Reverend" Donna Howell, Nephilim "expert" LA Marzulli, "prophecy expert" and speculator Bill Salus, and of course, disgraced spiritual abuser Jimmy Evans. 9 

* Prophecy Watchers are closely associated with Daystar.9 

* Jack Hibbs' shocking endorsement of NAR "apostolic leader" Che Ahn and his continued support of Daystar.9 

* Date setter JD Farag predicted that the rapture would occur before the 25th of September 2023.10 

* Don Stewart continues to churn out prophecy updates despite his adulterous marriage.11

* Andy Woods credibility issues! Alan Kurschner's strong rebuttal against Andy Woods' "lies" and "evasion of significant arguments" in 2018.12  

Critically the pretrib rapture fails the test of the scriptures and is based on the teachings of cult leader John Nelson Darby and defective "Left Behind" theology. (1 John 4:1). 

1. G646 - apostasia - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)
2. Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon, ἀποστασία
3. Microsoft Word - Rapture Debate_Alan Kurschner, Thomas Ice Transcript 1.1.docx
4. The “Departure” (Rapture) Seen In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 | Art Licursi
5. 9 Reasons Why the Rapture and Resurrection Occur AFTER the Great Tribulation (Rapture Talks) | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES
6. Pretribulation Lee Brainard REDEFINES Imminence to Mean Signs Must Happen Before the Rapture
    Replying to Audio Clips from Lee Brainard’s “Imminence Under Attack”
    WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Lee Brainard
7. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: PRETRIB RAPTURE: MARK HITCHCOCK'S FAKE DISCOVERY AND ENDORSEMENT OF JIMMY EVANS!
8. Pre-Trib Proof! | Tipping Point with Jimmy Evans
9. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: MICHAEL GRANT'S QUESTION: WHY ARE "GOOD" TEACHERS STAYING AT DAYSTAR?
10. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: CRAZED CULT LEADER JD FARAG PREDICTS THE RAPTURE BEFORE 25TH SEPTEMBER 2023
11. Scattered Sheep: January 20, 2012 Show: My Perspective on Don Stewart

12. What Andy Woods Is Not Telling You about 'the Apostasy' in 2 Thess 2:3 - Ep. 121 | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES

ANDY WOODS: REVELATION 3:10 DOES NOT SUPPORT THE PRETRIB RAPTURE

 One Verse That Proves the Pretrib Rapture | Andy Woods

Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. (Revelation 3:10).

Mondo Gonzales (Prophecy Watchers) and Andy Woods discuss Revelation 3:10 and its alleged affirmation of the pretrib rapture of the church. 

Woods homes in on the Greeek τηρήσω ἐκ "I will keep {you} out of". There are two issues to consider 1 the context and the definition of "the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world"; 2 the application of τηρήσω ἐκ to Revelation 3:10 and John 17:15.

Gonzales and Woods make the assumption that "the hour of trial" is the tribulation, but this interpretation is problematic. The great tribulation applies to believers, whereas "the hour of trial" will come upon the whole world i.e. the earth dwellers. During the tribulation, believers are called to perseverance during a period of unprecedented persecution and martyrdom. (Matthew 24:13; Revelation 3:8). The hour of trial is the direct wrath of God (the day of the Lord's wrath) that comes upon the whole world after the great tribulation. (Revelation 6:17; Matthew 24:29). The churches in Philadelphia and Smyrna are faithful and do not receive a rebuke from the Lord. Philadelphia is promised:  I will keep you from the hour of trial.. whereas Smyrna is given the conditional promise: The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death. (Revelation 2:9-11). The severe warnings pronounced against the compromising churches are prefixed by "I have this against you". One can only assume that unfaithful churches i.e. those who compromise will suffer the wrath of God along with the world unless they repent. (Revelation 2:5,16,21-22,3:3,16). Revelation 3:10 is addressed more fully by Alan Kurschner: Revelation 3:10 Archives | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES          

Woods addresses the well-known objection to the theory that Revelation 3:10 refers to a pretrib rapture. He cites John 17:15 where the same construction τηρήσω ἐκ is used. Since John was the author of the Gospel of John and the Book of Revelation and both are direct quotes from Jesus, it is reasonable to interpret τηρήσω ἐκ similarly to affirm the idea that Revelation 3:10 means literally to“keep from” rather than "preserve through".

John 17:15 consists of two phrases:

I do not ask that you take them out of the world (ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου)

but (ἀλλ’) that you keep (τηρήσῃς) them from the evil {one}. (John 17:15).

Woods: "What people do is they look at the wrong object. The ἐκ and τηρήσω go with the evil one, not with the world."  ?? Gonzales and Woods profess to be skilled in the original languages, but I am hesitant about accepting Woods' interpretation of John 17:15. I do not claim to be an expert in biblical Greek, but I would read this verse differently. The object of the first phrase is the world and ἀλλ’ is the conjunction. In my view, the reading of John 17:15 is that Jesus rejects taking His followers out of the world (ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου), in favour of the contrasting course i.e. to keep (τηρήσῃς) them from evil (or the evil one). I do not think this verse refers to the rapture; rather it seems to have the sense of the Lord's prayer "deliver us from evil" (Matthew 6:13 cf. 2 Thessalonians 3:3; 1 John 5:18). 

Ellicott: "We have to bear in mind also that the present passage occurs in the second 'Lord's Prayer,' and that His prayer for them may with probability be interpreted in the same sense as the words in which He taught them to pray. On the whole, therefore, it seems likely, but yet is by no means certain, that we ought to read here, 'that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one.'" 1 

Strong's: The Greek conjunction 'ἀλλά' (alla) is used to denote contrast or exception. It is often translated as 'but,' 'rather,' or 'on the contrary' in English. This word serves to introduce a statement that contrasts with or opposes what has been previously mentioned. It is a critical conjunction in Greek for clarifying distinctions and emphasizing differences in thought or action.2  

Two examples of ἀλλά

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but (ἀλλὰ) a sword. (Matthew 10:34). 

Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but (ἀλλὰ) seventy-seven times. (Matthew 18:22).

Woods' faulty definition of the tribulation is a huge problem. There is a clear distinction in the scriptures between tribulation (thlipsis) and wrath (orgé). Woods' denial of the critical information that God's direct wrath begins after the tribulation is a disturbing contradiction of the scriptures.

Immediately after the tribulation (thlipsin) of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31).

When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath (orgēs) has come, and who can stand?” (Revelation 6:12-17).

The following verses quoted by Woods allegedly teach a pretrib rapture. 

Do not let your hearts be troubled. (John 14:1-4). 

Therefore encourage one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 413-18).  

For Woods, if these verses do not indicate a pretrib rapture "..it is not much of a comfort." Citing individual verses as evidence of a pretrib rapture is irresponsible and dangerous. These verses/passages do not specify the timing of the rapture and critically not one verse in the bible teaches a pretrib rapture. The call to faith is a tough call! Believers are repeatedly warned about the extreme cost of discipleship. (Luke 14:27-28; Matthew 24:9; John 16:2-3; Acts 14:22; 2 Timothy 3:12; 1 Peter 4:12-14; 1 John 13:13 etc.) 

The pretrib rapture fallacy is likely to have severe repercussions for the body of Christ and I am aghast that Woods and others shamelessly persist in promoting it. Woods et al are so entrenched that they have created an almost impenetrable stronghold. (2 Corinthians 10:4-5; Ephesians 6:12). I pray and hope they will humble themselves before the Lord and repent before it is too late. (1 John 4:1).  

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19).

A further word of caution 

Prophecy Watchers give a platform to false teachers such as Jonathan Cahn who claims to be "prophetic", "Reverend" Donna Howell, and recently disgraced spiritual abuser Jimmy Evans.4 Prophecy Watchers are closely involved with and are tainted by the heretical TV network Daystar.3  Prophecy Watchers: "A NEW DAY is dawning at our ministry. After the TBN building and studio acquisition … after Daystar Television accepted our program.."5 This is a severe compromise and smacks of the NAR! Like many false ministries, Prophecy Watchers constantly peddle their merchandise. (2 Corinthians 2:17). Several pretrib teachers appear on Daystar including LA Marzuli, Bill Salus, Billy Crone, Tom Hughes, David Jeremiah, and Jack Hibbs who endorses Che Ahn!6 Jack Hibbs' unbiblical response to Michael Grant when challenged about his compromise and the doctrine of separation is very telling: They Actually Responded & It Wasn't Good IMHO (My Take on the Situation) Unfortunately Andy Woods seems willing to sacrifice almost anything on the altar of the pretrib rapture! (1 Thessalonians 5:22; Romans 16:17-18).

  

1. John 17:15 Commentaries: "I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.
2. Strong's Greek: 235. ἀλλά (alla) -- but, rather, on the contrary
3. Shows | Daystar Television
4 .Jimmy Evans: A Line in the Sand - The Prophecy Watchers
5. Meet the New Co-Host of Prophecy Watchers!
6. Jack Hibbs Endorses NAR Che Ahn l HR1154 "Conspir@cy The0rists" bill l Temple on earth @ FOT timing

ANDY WOODS "CORRECTION" OF JOHN RICH + TUCKER CARLSON: TAKEDOWN OF PRETRIB RAPTURE

Tucker Carlson and John Rich Tackle the Pre-Trib Rapture! (youtube.com)

Olivier Melnick and Andy Woods have attempted but ultimately failed to prop up the "Holy Grail" of pretribulationalism during their "correction" of John Rich following his recent interview with Tucker Carlson: John Rich: Donald Trump, the Darkness of Eminem’s New Album, and the Song Inspired by God (youtube.com) 

Rich comes from a Christian background and is a country singer. His interview with Carlson came on the back of the success of his song "Revelation", inspired by the prophecies of John the Revelator about the future and the return of Jesus Christ.1 The interview has rattled the pretrib rapture camp and provoked Andy Woods, Olivier Melnick, Lee Brainard, and others to react negatively.2  

Woods: (regarding Tucker Carlson) "..but you start to see a pattern. First you see Munther Isaac.. then a month or two later you see this guy who is trying to trash the pretrib rapture.. Either he or his producer or whoever is intentionally giving platforms to people that are trying to tear down the Zionist dispensational understanding.." Melnick and Woods are expecting too much of Tucker Carlson. As far as I am aware, Carlson is not a Christian, although he is evidently reading the scriptures and exploring different views. We cannot reasonably expect non-Christians to have a theologically sound view of Romans 9. (1 Corinthians 9:12).

The Scofield Bible 

Andy Woods proceeded to "rectify" John Rich's claim that the Scofield Bible was the first study Bible including study notes ever made. Technically Woods is right, but he is splitting hairs. The first full edition of the Geneva Bible (1575) predates the first Scofield Reference Bible (1909) by more than three hundred years. However, the Scofield Reference Bible is generally considered to be innovative. It is described by Got Questions as "..the first of its kind—an annotated Bible designed to aid the reader in understanding the text."3 Wikipedia: "The Scofield Bible had several innovative features. Most important, it printed what amounted to a commentary on the biblical text alongside the Bible instead of in a separate volume, the first to do so in English since the Geneva Bible (1560)."4  I think we can overlook John Rich's peccadillo since the Geneva Bible with its Calvinist slant was controversial and was not well received in the UK, especially by King James, who considered the notes to be subversive due to their political undertones. In contrast, the Scofield Bible was widely accepted and has had a huge impact on modern evangelicalism.

John Nelson Darby

Woods "John Darby was very godly man and he was I believe part of the Plymouth Brethren Movement he started churches really all over the place.. he was a top notch scholar.."  (15:18 mark)  I have no argument with those who assert Darby's intelligence; however his character is an altogether different matter! Much has been written about Darby from varying perspectives, but it is irrefutable that Darby was the cause of much consternation by Bible scholars and leaders of his time and was considered arrogant and self-willed. 

Brethren leaders George Müller, Anthony Groves, and Benjamin Newton suffered intensely at the hands of Darby, who would broker no opposition to his sectarian views. Darby would not even tolerate anyone who wished to remain neutral. Darby's response to ANY opposition was to simply annihilate it. Those who disagreed with him were excommunicated. Why? - Because according to Darby, the Lord had personally revealed dispensational hermeneutics to him directly. In his own eyes, this made him 'right' and gave him liberty to butcher the body of Christ. It is difficult to argue against anyone with such obvious forcefulness, intelligence and powers of intimidation.5 

Charles Spurgeon: "Mr. Darby is, to all intents and purposes a thorough Pope, though under a Protestant name. He will never admit that he is in error; and therefore very naturally declines to argue with those who controvert the soundness of his views. How, indeed, could it be otherwise? If Mr. Darby holds, which he does, with a firm grasp, the principle that whatever conclusions he and those acting in conjunction with him may come to, express beyond all question the mind of the Spirit; and if those Darbyites who gather together in London, can go so far as to exclude all other denominations, even the most godly among them, 'believing themselves to be the one or only, assembly of God in London,' how need we feel surprised that Mr. Darby, as the 'prophet, priest, and king' of the party, should exercise a perfect despotism within the domains of Darbyism?"6 

George Müller: "Scripture declares plainly that the Lord Jesus will not come until the Apostasy shall have taken place, and the man of sin shall have been revealed..."7 

Borivali Assembly: "He (Anthony Groves) became increasingly concerned with the drift of the Plymouth Brethren towards sectarianism under the leadership of Darby and aligned himself with George Müller when the brethren split in 1848 to form the Open Brethren and Exclusive Brethren."8

The secret rapture

Woods further "correction" of Rich for using the term "secret rapture" is illegitimate.

Woods: "When someone uses the expression 'secret rapture' it shows me that they are really not doing original research. They are just sort of reading what someone else said. I think that's what Mr Rich did in that video. I think he has hooked into certain.. anti-dispensational authors. Because when you take the Bible at face value there is nothing secretive about it.."   (22:00 mark)

The expression "secret rapture" was employed by Darby and was a common expression within the "Left Behind" (Tim LaHaye) pretrib camp. It is only relatively recently that the pretrib camp have backtracked and no longer use this expression for the obvious reason that it is false. It is illegitimate to accuse Rich of doing poor research or using anti-dispensational material for his information as Woods suggested.

To quote one of Woods heroes Thomas Ice: "Darby introduced the concept of a secret rapture to take place ‘at any moment’, a belief which subsequently became one of the chief hallmarks of Brethren eschatology.. Ernest Sandeen tells us: Darby’s view of the premillennial advent contrasted with that held by the historicist millenarian school in two ways. First, Darby taught that the second advent would be secret, an event sensible only to those who participated in it. . . . There were, in effect, two 'second comings' in Darby’s eschatology. The church is first taken from the earth secretly and then, at a later time, Christ returns in a public second advent as described in Matthew 24.9 

Alan Kurschner: An older expression in pretribulational literature—and can still be used occasionally today—is secret coming or secret rapture. From my exposure to older pretrib and non-pretrib literature, it seemed to be used synonymous with the expressions signless coming or signless rapture, in contrast to an announced coming or announced rapture."10

The term "rapture"

Woods: "This idea that the word 'rapture' is not in the Bible. I mean that's just so silly; I can't believe people even use that argument anymore."

It is important to note that Rich described the prewrath rapture of the church, he did not deny the rapture. Rich did his best to articulate the difficult subject of eschatology to a mixed audience, including those who were perhaps unfamiliar with the term "rapture". Woods seemed to make the assumption that everyone in Carlson's audience was familiar with Christianese.

Rich: "..the word 'rapture' is nowhere in the Bible. It talks about us being caught up with him and pulled out of here, and then the ultimate wrath is poured out on this planet. That's what we call the rapture, but that's not in debate. The question is what happens leading up to that? It's a good question to ask right? For some reason nobody ever preaches that. They don't want to talk about what happens prior to it.. "11 

The myth that the pretrib rapture was taught prior to Darby    

   

Woods and other pretrib teachers are determined to propagate the myth that Darby's rapture teaching predates the 1800s. Frankly, they should abandon the idea of inventing fallacious "evidence" which is repeatedly debunked. Darby himself claimed that the Lord had personally revealed dispensational hermeneutics to him directly. The resulting furore from Darby's peers is testimony that the pretrib rapture had not been previously articulated.

Darby: "..what God has with infinite graciousness revealed to me concerning His dealing with the Church... it was in this the Lord was pleased, without man's teaching, first to open my eyes on this subject, that I might learn His will concerning it throughout."12

Woods: "To my knowledge there are probably around forty discovered pre-Darby pretribulation rapture statements.. I do remember the Pseudo Ephraem discovery.."

For the umpteenth time, there are no early sources prior to 1830 that articulate a pretrib rapture. Pseudo Ephraem has been repeatedly debunked as a pretrib document by reliable Bible scholars. The author of Pseudo Ephraem placed the rapture event after the Antichrist's arrival. I have added some links that demonstrate this at the end of the post. When you are dealing with dishonest scholarship there is no hope of meaningful discussion.   

Andy Woods: "Even if John Rich is right on 1830, who cares. The rapture doctrine is found in the Bible."

The rapture doctrine is found in the Bible; the pretrib rapture doctrine is not found in the Bible!

Melnick and Woods' pettiness paid off in one respect ~ they managed to catch Rich out in one error to their obvious delight. Rich was in error when he said that the word "Antichrist" does not exist within the Bible. The word Antichrist can be found in 1 John 2:18, 224:3 2 John 1:7. (35:00 mark) This is the only legitimate criticism they have against Rich.  

Woods: "Lets just pretend that Scofield and Darby were just horrible people. All the mud about them and slander about them is true. Well that doesn't change the fact that the pretrib rapture is wrong. Because you can't demolish an idea by trying to link it to a source and discrediting the source when the truth of it is found in God's Word." 

The character of church leaders and teachers is critically important biblically. (1 Timothy 3:1-7). We should have learned throughout the murky history of the church age that when anyone presents a novel doctrine caution is advised. (1 John 4:1). Both Darby and Scofield were very dark characters. Scofield's history is shocking. Wikipedia: "During the early 1890s, Scofield began styling himself Rev. C. I. Scofield, D.D.; but there are no extant records of any academic institution having granted him the honorary Doctor of Divinity degree.13 Furthermore Scofield was a self-confessed heavy drinker and he abandoned his wife and two daughters and married another woman. He faced criminal charges of fraud and embezzlement between 1877 and 1879, even after his alleged conversion, and he served at least one jail sentence.14 In short, Scofield had no business setting himself up as a Bible scholar/teacher! (1 Timothy 3:2,7; Acts 6:3; 2 Timothy 2:15; James 3:1). Woods' claim that pretrib rapture is found in God's Word is unreliable and highly disputed. There is not one clear verse in the scriptures that backs up a pretrib rapture! 

The lie of pretribulationism is one of the greatest scandals within Western Evangelicalism of our time. Pretrib leaders have accepted the lie and are sticking to it no matter what evidence to the contrary is presented to them. (Thessalonians 2:11). Woods' obfuscations and half-truths are worthy of any blatant false teacher and his Pharisaic attack upon Rich tells us more about Woods than Rich. 

The tactics of pretrib leaders: "..never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."15  

Not only does Woods knowingly persist in promoting the false pretrib rapture doctrine despite its defects, he does not believe in repentance as it relates to salvation, and he also promotes the false doctrine of once saved always saved (OSAS). These are very serious errors that put both him and his followers in a very precarious position before Jesus Christ. 

  . 

1. John Rich - Revelation (feat Sonya Isaacs) (youtube.com)
2. Tucker Carlson, John Rich, and the Rapture (youtube.com)
3. What is the Scofield Reference Bible? | GotQuestions.org
4. Scofield Reference Bible - Wikipedia
5. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: berean call conference 2015: paul wilkinson's divisive pre-tribulation delusion!!! (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
6. http://spurgeon.org/s_and_t/dbreth.htm
7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M%C3%BCller
8. Anthony Norris Groves - Borivali Assembly
9. Ice-2-PTRC 2011 (pre-trib.org)
10. The Meaning of 'Secret' in the Pretribulational Rapture Expression 'the Secret Coming of Christ' | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
11. John Rich: Donald Trump, the Darkness of Eminem’s New Album, and the Song Inspired by God (youtube.com)

12. Reflections Upon The Prophetic Inquiry And The Views Advanced In It | Plymouth Brethren Writings
13. C. I. Scofield - Wikipedia
14. Scofield, Cyrus Ingerson (tshaonline.org)
15. Joseph Goebbels On the “Big Lie” (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)

Further Links

Writings & Arguments Against Actions and Doctrines of John Darby – The TRUTH SOURCE
Pseudo-Ephraem Is NOT a Pretribulation Document | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
Pseudo-Ephraem.pdf (alankurschner.com)
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: PSEUDO-EPHRAEM TAUGHT PRETRIB - NOT! BY DAVE MACPHERSON (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

ANDY WOODS' CHEAP SHOT AT THE PREWRATH RAPTURE!

(1) If You Only Knew | with Tom Hughes & Dr. Andy Woods - YouTube

In this episode of Hope For Our Times, rabid pre-trib teacher Andy Woods of Sugar Land Bible Church takes a cheap shot at the prewrath rapture. Woods argues that wrath (orgē) and tribulation (thlipsis) are synonyms in Romans 2:8-9. (27:00 mark). Since orgē and thlipsis are not synonymous anywhere else in the New Testament, why would these particular verses be an exception? Woods accuses the prewrath camp of playing a "semantic game". This accusation is very rich coming from the man who interprets apostasia as the rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, but I digress. (See Further Links) 

Woods: "..Romans 2:8-9 says 'tribulations' and 'wrath', those two words can overlap each other, even though they are different words.. Just because they are different words doesn't mean that they are compartmentalized the way that the prewrath rapture crowd have it.. So this kind of a semantic game you hear from a lot of these so-called prewrath rapturists.. That is what I am seeing in Revelation 6. I don't have to see the word 'wrath' right away to understand it's God's wrath because I know there is an overlap of tribulations and wrath when you study Romans 2 verses 8 and 9.. The prewrathers want to keep these things compartmentalized, but Romans 2 verses 8 and 9 won't let you do that. There is a semantic overlap in those words.. ..that overlap is what you do not see acknowledged by the prewrath rapturists, because they try to pretend like the initial judgements are really not done by Jesus, but by Satan or man, even though Jesus is obviously causing them by opening the seven-sealed scroll.. The compartmentalization that the prewrathers want isn't there as neatly and nicely as they make it sound." 

But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath (orgē) for yourself on the day of wrath (orgē) when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath (orgē) and fury (thumos). There will be tribulation (thlipsis) and distress (stenochōria) for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:5-11).

Romans 2:8-9 incorporates two separate pairs of descriptive nouns. There is an overlap between orgē and thumos, and also between thlipsis and stenochōria, but the two clauses are separate. 

orgé (wrath) anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance fury.. {1}

thumos fury, anger, an outburst of passion, wrath. {2} 

thlipsis (tribulation) distress anguish and grief.. {3} 

stenochōria a narrow space, great distress, anguish. {4}

Thlipsis indicates suffering/distress/anguish/grief/persecution/affliction. e.g. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings (thlipsis), knowing that suffering (thlipsis) produces endurance.. (Romans 5:3 cf. Acts 14:2; Romans 8:35; 12:12; Revelation 2:9-10 etc.)

The two separate pairs of descriptive nouns in Romans 2:8-9 are intentionally evocative. Thlipsis and stenochōria communicate additional details regarding the full horrors in store for the unrighteous. Those who obey unrighteousness will be subject to God's wrath and fury i.e. judgement/punishment/vengeance.. (Romans 2:5,8 cf. Psalm 78:49). This punishment will involve or consist of tribulation/anguish/grief/distress.. (Romans 2:9). Paul's various expressions of wrath and tribulation emphasize the terrible fate of the unrighteous in graphic detail.

The context of the great tribulation

Jesus Christ Himself gives the parameters that define the great tribulation in the Olivet discourse. The great tribulation will begin immediately following the abomination of desolation event when the Antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak. How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, (thlipsis) unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.(Matthew 24:15-21)

Immediately after the tribulation (thlipsis) of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.. (Matthew 24:29-31).

As Woods affirms, the 70th week of Daniel is initiated by the opening of the seven-sealed scroll by Jesus Christ. However, the prewrath view does not define this period as the day of wrath as mentioned in Romans 2:5. The wrath of God is described variously as the day of the Lord, the great day of Their wrath, the great and the terrible day of the LORD etc. and is often alluded to as "that day". The day of the Lord is God's direct intervention from heaven. The wrath of God will begin after the tribulation and will follow the cosmic disturbances and the rapture. (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 5:9). 

Andy Woods repeated a comment I have heard him make previously. He remarked glibly that if they are wrong about bible prophecy: "we will have to redraw our prophecy charts." (23:00 mark) He and Tom Hughes were actually making a joke about this! When the time comes, I think it will be a bit more serious than that! (Matthew 12:36; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 2 Timothy 2:15; James 3:1). Frankly, the repercussions for pre-trib rapture teachers will be very serious indeed ~ their charts will be the last thing on their minds. (Luke 17:1). Tom Hughes (Hope For Our Times) regularly parades various prophecy teachers whose prophetic speculations are an unhelpful distraction. For instance, Bill Salus' various "Now" speculations; {5} Lee Brainard's distortion of the early Church Fathers; {6} adulterer Don Stewart who is disqualified; {7} not to mention innumerable Gog/Magog speculations, including Woods' isolated two-phase view. {8} Bible teachers should be preparing believers to stand during the great tribulation, but pre-trib teachers are doing the very opposite by raising false hopes and making jokes! It is likely that many believers may actually fall away because of this wicked teaching! (Matthew 24:10). Tom Hughes and his pre-trib friends are setting up believers for a terrible fall. If anyone is guilty of playing "semantic games" it is Andy Woods and his associates! (2 Timothy 3:13).

1. Strong's Greek: 3709. ὀργή (orgé) -- impulse, wrath (biblehub.com)
2. Strong's Greek: 2372. θυμός (thumos) -- passion (biblehub.com)
3. Strong's Greek: 2347. θλῖψις (thlipsis) -- tribulation (biblehub.com)
4. Strong's Greek: 4730. στενοχωρία (stenochória) -- narrowness of space, fig. difficulty (biblehub.com)
5. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: BILL SALUS: GOG MAGOG DANGEROUS SPECULATIONS (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
6. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: LEE BRAINARD''S PHONY TRANSLATION OF EUSEBIUS DOES NOT PROVE THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE! (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
7. Scattered Sheep: January 20, 2012 Show: My Perspective on Don Stewart (scatteredsheepreport.blogspot.com)
8. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: ANDY WOODS: GOG MAGOG TWO-PHASE VIEW (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

Further Links

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: apostasia: rebellion or rapture? thomas ice pre-tribulation rapture trickery!
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
(bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Rapture (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
(2) 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie) - YouTube