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Monday, 29 April 2019

JACOB PRASCH DAVID NATHAN MARCO QUINTANA: THE MILLENNIAL QUESTION


Jacob Prasch exposed (pt6) , David Nathan (Marco Quintana) Millennial reign - what really happened?

In the above video, Frank Rogers refers to a previous discussion between Jacob Prasch and David Nathan about the millennium back in October 2016 at Community Church Devore in Southern California in which they share their millennial views. At this meeting, Jacob Prasch, David Nathan and Marco Quintana are all in agreement, i.e. after the rapture of the church, the age of grace comes to an end:

Jacob Prasch: "Once the harpazo transpires, the Lord will refocus His primary intentions on the salvation of Israel, although not salvation in the sense that we understand it, not by grace, it will ?? revert back to the Old Testament way of dealing with man and the nations." 

David Nathan re-emphasises Prasch's point: "After the rapture, the age of dispensation of grace as we know it, the church age is over. From that moment until the end of the millennium, everything reverts back under law. There is no salvation in the sense of being adopted, being part of the family of God. The Jews and those in the millennium will become the people of God and not the family of God. Everything reverts back under old covenant. So when Jesus comes, that's it, salvation, as we understand it, by grace is over. That is why the parables of the marriage feast in Matthew 22 and  in 25 says that when the door is shut, no one else can come in. If you don't have a wedding garment on, in other words, garments made of white by the blood of the Lamb ?? any other garment, you are going to get kicked out. So when the Lord returns, He comes for his bride, there are not two weddings. There is one wedding for one bride at one time in history. You are either in it or you are not. After that, everything goes back under Law."

Jacob Prasch nods at various points and is in full agreement with everything David Nathan says.

Jacob Prasch: "The wedding is the same as the door being shut in Noah's ark." 

The statement that millennial Jews and Gentiles will not be saved under grace because the marriage feast is over is extremely problematic. Are not Israel regarded corporately as God's wife during the millennium? (Isaiah 54:5; 62:5; Hosea 2:16).

My understanding is that those Gentiles who are not raptured after the tribulation will not repent and be saved. In other words, the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled at the rapture i.e. the number of Gentile believers is complete at that particular point. (Luke 21:24; Romans 11:25 cf. Ezekiel 30:3). This leaves the Jewish people and also the survivors of the nations who came against Jerusalem in the millennium. (Zechariah 14:16).

The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. (Revelation 9:20-21 cf. Revelation 16:9-11). 

In the case of Noah's ark, when "the door is shut", those outside perish utterly:

Then the LORD shut him in.. And every living thing on the face of the earth was destroyed—man and livestock, crawling creatures and birds of the air; they were blotted out from the earth, and only Noah remained, and those with him in the ark. (Genesis 7:16, 23). Similarly, In Luke 13, the door is shut to those "workers of evil", i.e. the false teachers are cast out. (Luke 13:24-28).

The same thing applies in Luke 13. Once the door is shut, those outside are utterly rejected and without hope:

Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’ In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out." (Luke 13: 24-28). 

The concept of "the door being shut", as in Noah's ark and the wedding feast doesn't make any sense in the context of the millennium. The phrase "the door was shut" is qualified in that it refers to "the other virgins/the foolish virgins". (Matthew 25:2-11). My view is that Jacob Prasch, David Nathan and Marco Quintana took the illustrations of Noah's ark and the wedding feast completely out of sync.

Why does David Nathan separate "the people of God" from "the family of God" during the millennium? The nature of NT believers is described by the same predicates originally applied to those under the Law in the OT. (1 Peter 2:9; Exodus 19:5-6). According to David Nathan, somehow millennial believers' relationship with God is reduced because they come under Law, but I see no evidence of this in the scriptures. (Revelation 21:7). The phrase "the people of God" encompasses a number of different aspects of the unique relationship between God and his people.

For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O LORD, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name. (Isaiah 63:16 cf. Ephesians 1:2; Romans 1:7).

There are many verses that refer to both OT Israelites and NT Christians as "the people of God".

Old Testament: Exodus 3:7, 10; 6:7; Leviticus 26:12; Ruth 1:16; 2 Chronicles 6:5-6; Jeremiah 31:31-33
New Testament: Luke 22:19-20; see Hebrews 7:22; 8:6-13; 9:15-22; 10:10-31; 11:25; 12:24; 13:20-21; John 1:12-13; 10:7-9, 14-16; Acts 10-11, 15; Romans 9-11; Ephesians 2:11-22; 1 Peter 2:4-10; 1 John 5:11-13

There is a parallel between 2 Corinthians 6:16 and Exodus 37:27: I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 

Will millennial Jews need a wedding feast? The nation of Israel is unlikely to be the Lamb’s bride, because God the Father is already her husband. It appears that Israel will be re-established or restored to her position, not only as "God's people" but as his wife:

Return, O faithless children, declares the LORD; for I am your master (husband); I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. (Jeremiah 3:14). 

“If a man divorces his wife and she goes from him and becomes another man’s wife, will he return to her? Would not that land be greatly polluted? You have played the whore with many lovers; and would you return to me? declares the LORD. (Jeremiah 3:1).

She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the whore. (Jeremiah 3:8).

Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Jeremiah 31:31-33). Plead with your mother, plead— for she is not my wife, and I am not her husband— that she put away her whoring from her face, and her adultery from between her breasts; (Hosea 2:2). She shall pursue her lovers but not overtake them, and she shall seek them but shall not find them. Then she shall say, ‘I will go and return to my first husband, for it was better for me then than now.’ (Hosea 2:7).

And in that day, declares the LORD, you will call me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer will you call me ‘My Baal.’ (Hosea 2:16).

And I will betroth you to me forever. I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy. I will betroth you to me in faithfulness. And you shall know the Lord. (Hosea 2:19-20).

"The LORD’s accomplished purpose in Israel’s chastening also will result in the reestablishment of her original husband-wife relationship to the LORD.2 The relationship between Israel and Jehovah is dramatically different than what the NT records concerning Christ and His bride. Perhaps the most significant difference is that the marriage of Jehovah to Israel occurred in time past, whereas the marriage of Christ with His bride has not yet taken place. This is the subject of the passage before us.

Israel in her land was the wife of Jehovah (Jer. Jer. 3:14-20; Isa. Isa. 54:1), but the wife was divorced because of her iniquity. Israel, however, is to be reinstated in Jehovah’s favour. But a divorced wife can never again be a virgin, and it is not a divorced wife but a virgin whom the Lord marries (Lev. Lev. 21:14)." {1}

1. https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/related-topics/israel-married-to-jehovah.html

Sunday, 21 April 2019

JACOB PRASCH FAKE JEW!

No one who practices deceit shall dwell in my house; no one who utters lies shall continue before my eyes. (Psalm 101:7).

I now regard Jacob Prasch as a fake and a liar in every single respect. He is certainly a fake Christian, but now it appears that he is also a fake Jew!

I began my research into Jacob Prasch in 2016 when I questioned his fake intra-seal rapture teaching. I soon discovered that intra-seal contained many troubling errors. Since then I have written a number of posts on the subject. I have also questioned Prasch's relationship with ecumenists David Noakes and Clifford Hill of Issachar Ministries, {1} and recently his approval of Jackie Alnor's article endorsing Freemason Billy Graham as a valid evangelist. {2} Prasch's feigned ignorance of the true identity of John Cambridge also raised a few eyebrows. {3} Some of Prasch's associations are very puzzling indeed for someone claiming to be a solid bible expositor. One way or another, many things about Jacob Prasch do not add up. In September 2016, I came to the following conclusion: "Prasch's casuistry and equivocation, are, dare I say it, almost Jesuitical. I have come to the point where I would not take anything he says at face value." {4}

Since the David Nathan episode last year, more questions about Prasch's true motives have come into question. In particular the destructive antichristian venom that he often directs towards others has been highlighted. Many Christians have suffered at the hands of Prasch and his abusive rages over the years, and true to type, Prasch has also abused me with his often repeated "Jezebel" slur. In recent months, Prasch's deception has been exposed on a regular basis. In particular, Frank Rogers' videos on YouTube identify some explicit issues! {5}

Inexplicably, Prasch retains the support of the CMFI {6} and people like Marco Quintana, John Haller, Joshua Chavez and Amos Farrell. Bill Randles association with Moriel is at an end, although he still persists in slandering David Nathan. These Prashites are the so called "leaders" that have oversight and influence over a significant part of the remnant church in these perilous times! (2 Timothy 3:1).

moriel.org: "Jacob’s family is a combination of Roman Catholic and Jewish. (In his youth he was forced to attend a Catholic school, but also attended the Jewish Community Center."{7}

Prasch: "I have two first names - James and Jacob. When I was a baby they called me James. It was Anglicised from my grandfathers name, Ya'kov - Jacob. It is good that I have two first names because my family is a combination of two backgrounds - Irish Catholic and Jewish." {8} On ancestry.co.uk Prasch's grandfather on his father's side is George Conrad Prasch, and on his mother's side it is Francis Joseph Connors. https://vimeo.com/330059149 (password Ancestry)

In the clip below Prasch claims that he is "fluent in Hebrew", after confirming his family's background as Jewish and Roman Catholic:
vimeo.com/331578527 (password Hebrew)

Prasch's most recent books state that he has a Jewish background:
vimeo.com/331564900 (password Shadows)

Prasch's repeated claim of having a Jewish background has now been thrown into serious doubt.
The record lists Prasch's father as James Aloysius Prasch 1926-1988 from New Jersey USA.

There is no indication in the record that he was Jewish. Indeed the Prasch gravestone is situated in a Catholic graveyard complete with masonic symbol.
vimeo.com/330059149 (password Ancestry)













Above: Prasch's uncle on his father's side - John Gilbert Prasch.
A Freemason and definitely not Jewish!
























































Someone going by the name of Truth Dispenser left the following comment on Frank Rogers' recent video. I am informed that these details come from inside the Prasch camp and concern a cover up by Moriel staff:

"Despite what he claims, people very close to Prasch have covered his deceit for years because James (Jimmy) A. Prasch comes from a Catholic family with no Jewish blood.
Both parents were catholic going back many generations.
Prasch is not a Jewish surname and his dad who was a New York cop was buried in St Mary's catholic cemetery. In fact, Prasch is named after his dad and BOTH have the same middle name of Aloysius after the catholic saint of the same name.
His dad's memorial stone also shows his older brother's name and has the sign of The Cross and the Freemason's compasses on it.
The New Jersey synagogues have no record of a catholic boy of that name converting to Judaism or receiving his bar mitzvah.
This will come as a shock to the many people who followed Prasch, because they thought he was Jewish. When he first began the charade many years ago, he called himself Yacov - and many still call him that in England.
When he was challenged about it, he then changed his name to Jacob, which most people now call him, but his family and old friends continue to call him by his real name of Jimmy.
Yes, he married a Jewish girl he met in Israel. Yes, they lived in Galilee and yes, he has learned some Hebrew and Yiddish.
But that's as far as it goes."
{9}

Anonymous left comment on my blog on the 12th of April:

"Another question that is really not asked is does James (Jimmy) Prasch truly have Jewish ancestry in his family?
Jacobs mother was a faithful Roman Catholic and his father James Prasch SR was of no apparent faith at all.
Jimmy's mom and dad would have been married in a Roman Catholic Church and a priest back in those days would never have married a Roman Catholic to a Jewish man.
Now James wife Pavia is for sure Jewish so maybe after James married Pavia he adopted the Jewish faith and then eventually both James and Pavia would convert to Christianity.
Jacobs real name is listed here on his mom's obituary.
Maureen A. Prasch (Nee:Connors)
Lakewood - Maureen A. Prasch (Nee:Connors); 86, passed away peacefully on Saturday, April 28th at the Center for Hope Hospice in Elizabeth, NJ, surrounded by her loving family.
Maureen was born and raised in Bayonne, NJ. She moved to Highlands, NJ where she lived until her retirement in 1989. Before eventually settling in Lakewood, NJ, she spent her early retired years extensively travelling the U.S. and lived briefly on Whidbey Island in Washington State, and in Venice, Hollywood Beach and West Palm Beach, FL.
She was a retired Scheduler for NY and NJ Port Authority for over 21 years. She loved New York City and spent much of her free time there enjoying it. She was a patriotic American who bore a deep love for her Irish heritage. She travelled to Ireland many times and was an avid fan of its music, dance and literary culture.
Beloved Mother of James A. Prasch, Jr., Theresa Prasch Ward, Robert C. Prasch, & Sandra O'Connor Carey. Devoted Grandmother of Beth Miel, Eli Prasch, Kieran Prasch, Ashlyn Ward & Rhiannon O'Connor. Adoring Great-Grandmother of Joshua Miel. Loving Sister of Catherine Connors and the late Michael, Charles, Brian, Francis, and Cornelius Connors, Theresa Boyle, Anne Halecki, and Margaret Carstens. Dear Sister-In-Law of Peter Halecki. She is also survived by many Nieces & Nephews.
Relatives and friends are invited to attend the Viewing on Wednesday, May 2nd from
4 - 8 PM at the G. Keenen O'Brien Funeral Home, 984 Avenue C, Bayonne. A Funeral Mass will be offered on Thursday, May 3rd at 11 AM at St. Vincent's Church. Private Cremation.
Published in Asbury Park Press on May 1, 2018
So Jacob maybe adopted the name Jacob so he could be called Yacov and sell himself as a Jewish American teacher?
Again keeping in mind his wife Pavia is very smart and teaches Hebrew and Mathematics in the UK where Jimmy still lives.
Jimmy is a citizen of the UK not of American and has no American address unless you include David Listers address where Jimmy will stay on occasion.
Interesting the bag of goods people have been sold for decades.
Jimmy has always been an angry person.

I hope he gets better "

Prasch has falsely linked his ancestral name with Pharisee. {10} Wikipedia: "The Pharisee ("separatist") party emerged largely out of the group of scribes and sages. Their name comes from the Hebrew and Aramaic parush or parushi, which means 'one who is separated.'" {11} However, my research has revealed no connection between the name parush/parushi and Prasch. This is another piece of Prasch's fiction! The origin of Prasch is unknown - the name is most prevalent in the USA, Germany and Austria. {12}

The name on Prasch's birth certificate is James Aloysius Prasch. The alumni roll from St Mary’s Star of The Sea Roman Catholic School in Prasch's home town of Bayonne, New Jersey confirms his name on the second column near the end of 1967. "Aloysius is a French baby name. In French the meaning of the name Aloysius is: Famous warrior, from the Old German 'Chlodovech'. Aloysius is the name of the Italian Saint Aloysius of Gonzaga, and common among British Roman Catholics." {13} "Saint Aloysius de Gonzaga, SJ (Italian: Luigi Gonzaga; 9 March 1568 – 21 June 1591) was an Italian aristocrat who became a member of the Society of Jesus." {14} I am sure that many are aware, the Society of Jesus are the Jesuits.

Despite his questionable claim of Jewish descent, I fear that Prasch is no true friend of the Jewish people at all! Is this the reason for Prasch's vicious attack on Messianic Jew, David Nathan (Bread of Life Ministries), after David announced that he was leaving Moriel Ministries, and consequently Prasch's sphere of influence? 

I find some interesting parallels between Jacob Prasch and Haman (Hebrew: המן‎ Hâmân; also known as Haman the Agagite or Haman the evil). Haman, was the main antagonist in the Book of Esther and a descendant of Agag, the Nephilim king of the Amalekites, the bitterest enemies of the Jews. (1 Samuel 15:8). Haman's hatred of the Jews qualifies him as a type of the Antichrist. Ironically, Haman means to rage, be turbulent. Strong's 2001a {15}

Then Harbona, one of the eunuchs in attendance on the king, said, “Moreover, the gallows that Haman has prepared for Mordecai, whose word saved the king, is standing at Haman’s house, fifty cubits high.” And the king said, “Hang him on that.” (Esther 7:9).

In Susa the citadel itself the Jews killed and destroyed 500 men, and also killed Parshandatha and Dalphon and Aspatha and Poratha and Adalia and Aridatha and Parmashta and Arisai and Aridai and Vaizatha, the ten sons of Haman the son of Hammedatha, the enemy of the Jews, but they laid no hand on the plunder. (Esther 9:6-10).


Will Jacob Prasch finally be hoisted with his own petard?

The LORD watches over the sojourners; he upholds the widow and the fatherless, but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin. (Psalm 146:9).

1. https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2018/09/jacob-prasch-david-noakes-moriel.html
2. http://christiansentinel.com/2018/02/22/legacy-billy-graham/
3. https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2018/12/jacob-prasch-moriel-ministries-who-is.html
4. https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2016/09/jacob-prasch-moriel-ministries-further.html
5. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0AyZLfWyyB9XXdZR-ODXNA
6. https://www.moriel.org/articles-and-news/7157-statement-of-cmfi-concerning-moriel,-april-2019.html
7. https://www.moriel.org/about/19-general/5992-about-jacob-prasch.html 
8. Jacob Prasch: Israel, The Church & The Jews 2008 page 263
9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmml7O2_zAc&app=desktop
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p5RuQKlfjA&app=desktop
11. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees
12. http://www.namespedia.com/details/Prasch
13. https://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/aloysius/
14. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Gonzaga
15. https://biblehub.com/hebrew/2001a.htm

Wednesday, 17 April 2019

JACOB PRASCH EXPOSED (PART 6) BY FRANK ROGERS




Jacob Prasch exposed (pt6) , David Nathan (Marco Quintana) Millennial reign - what really happened?

Monday, 15 April 2019

CLOSINGSTAGES: FACT CHECKING BILL RANDLES

The facts speak for themselves!

Bill Randles email to Mike Rogers (excerpt):

I challenge you to show me one instance of me abusing David Nathan in any way shape or form. I am a friend of the Nathan’s and still count myself to be so, and have never abused him in writing or otherwise. (I am sure he himself would affirm this, so I am copying him). . 

The full text of Bill Randles email to Mike Rogers can be found on: https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2019/04/closingstages-bill-randles-re-jacob.html

David Nathan’s email to Bill Randles:

Dear Bill

In response to the email you copied me in on.

As a friend of mine can you please explain to me the following,

Why you never sent me a copy of the open letter you wrote on your blog in October 2018 but I had to find out about it some time later through third parties?

Why you deleted my response to that blog three times in the comments section as if I had not responded at all? I attached a link to my response in order to refresh your memory (https://www.bolm.co.za/index_htm_files/Response%20to%20Bill%20Randles%20-%20Open%20Letter.pdf)

Why to date you still have not responded to my email from December 2018 in which I asked you to explain where my doctrine was heretical? An email you acknowledged that you received but have never responded to.

Why you have not retracted the accusation that Kristin, your wife, made on a Facebook group, writing in both your names, in which she said that I was involved in the church spilt at your church when in fact the complete opposite was true and I tried to get all parties to meet and resolve their issues?

Why you have publicly stated that on three or four occasions you privately spoke to me warning me about my doctrine when I can emphatically state that we have never once had any such conversations? You only ever made a comment once and that was when I did a Q&A with Jacob at your church. You said that there cannot be salvation outside of the blood of Jesus. I agreed with your statement as that is what I believe and teach if you listen to my teaching and not edited clips from Moriel.

Why on social media you continued to call me a heretic?

Why my daughter, without my knowledge at the time, had to plead with you to stop your involvement in the attacks against me?

Why you allowed Al Pileggi, a very questionable character to use your church facilities to film his videos titled “Please David Nathan” which Moriel then used to further vilify me?(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMC66VQDVYzRYPHlccdQDlg)

Why you made a video with Amos Farrell and others before ever trying to contact me and asking me to explain my actual doctrinal views instead of believing an audio clip, taken way out of context, posted by Farrell that was less than 20 seconds of an entire teaching? Your own statement of faith and I quote states, “We believe that Jesus Christ is our Creator…” That is precisely the point that I made in the teaching for which I have been vilified.

I chose to remove myself from this debacle when I finally realised that Moriel and others had no desire to meet and resolve this whole affair but rather sought my destruction. I never would have thought that you would have conducted yourself the way you have in all this. I did at one point consider you a friend but I am struggling to reconcile our friendship with your conduct throughout this whole business. I have never treated a friend the way I have been treated by you and others. For that matter, I have never treated a fellow believer the way that I have been treated by you. Perhaps my understanding of friendship is very different to you and others.

Hopefully in time we can be true friends again.

David Nathan 

Bill Randles Response to David Nathan: 
Sun 4/14/2019 9:26 AM

Wow. Yes I can, I am happy to, but not until after We have church- Pastor Bill Randles.
Bill Randles <pastorbillrandles@gmail.com>


It has been brought to my attention that Bill Randles has been in touch with David Nathan. Those emails have not been released. It is my prayer that both men can work their differences out.

https://closingstages.net/2019/04/15/fact-checking-bill-randles/

Saturday, 13 April 2019

CLOSINGSTAGES: BILL RANDLES RE JACOB PRASCH

Below is an email from Bill Randles to Mike Rogers Closingstages and Mike and Pat's response.

Bill Randles <pastorbillrandles@gmail.com>
Mon 4/8/2019 3:24 PM

Mike I would like to clear up some misconceptions that You, Frank Rogers and a person named tbcKawaii are furthering about my role in the recent Jacob Prasch David Nathan fiasco. I hope I can get Frank Roger’s and Kawaii’s e-mails as well.
I have been a friend of Jacob Prasch’s until recently, and have travelled in similar circles, preaching in the same venues, etc. I have hosted Jacob in my own church BIG (Believers In Grace Fellowship) in the past.
My problem with you, Frank and the mysterious tbckawaii is your lumping me with Prasch, and vilifying me unjustly on your blogs and in the ridiculously snide and slanderous series of videos that you promote.
What got my attention was the headline “Bill Randles Continues his vilification of David Nathan” by Treena Gisborn. 
In the first place, I have not vilified David Nathan, in all of my interaction with him I have gone out of my way to be decent and respectful to him, as you can see here, https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/11/15/clarifying-a-difficult-situation-jacob-p-and-david-n/ and here , https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/10/12/one-helpful-suggestion-maybe-an-open-letter-to-david-nathan/and even in the article which you and treena find so objectionable, here, https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/12/30/why-there-is-still-a-question-david-nathan/ .
I challenge you to show me one instance of me abusing David Nathan in any way shape or form. I am a friend of the Nathan’s and still count myself to be so, and have never abused him in writing or otherwise. (I am sure he himself would affirm this, so I am copying him)
I am asking you to cut through the cynicism, and for a moment put aside your feelings about Jacob Prasch and to realize that whether I have been right or wrong on the issue, I have been operating out of sincere doctrinal concerns, and not as a mere flunky of Jacob Prasch’s.
I am not Moriel, I do not support Moriel anymore (for many reasons) and do not wish to be wrongly associated with the very same things I critiqued Moriel for, (and paid quite a personal price for I might add) but gladly as I am a man of principle.
My objections and interaction with David preceded Jacobs. Three or four years ago when I first met David, Jacob tried to urge me to publicly endorse David, and I refused because I didn’t know him yet. I spoke at his church a year later and when the Q/A involving David and I arose David was asked about the cleansing by sacrifice in the Millennium. I publicly disavowed his answer, right there in his own church.(I honestly thought he misspoke).
I admit that eventually I did endorse David after getting to know him, and feeling better about him, and I even had He and Jacob in my own church (the last time the two spoke together). Two weeks before that meeting I warned David by text about making extreme statements about the Blood of Jesus, and again in the meetings at my church the issue arose again, to which I publicly objected.
My concerns about David preceded Jacob’s concerns and in no way am I the flunky and sycophant your friend Kawaii makes me out to be.
The blog post I wrote, publicly endorsing the Menelaws has been vastly misrepresented as well. First of all, why did I write it?
Because I had stayed with the Menelaws and they were being misrepresented as getting rich off of the Daniel project. I knew that wasn’t true. I also knew Debby was going through quite a few traumas personally besides her ongoing feud with Jacob. The final straw was hearing Jacob rant something on a vlog to the effect that ” The Menelaws are liars and frauds and Bill Randles says so too!”.
So I set the record straight. 
Why did I take it down? This too is constantly being misrepresented by the little clique you are in concert with… 
I did not take it down under any pressure from Jacob, I took it down for two reasons; 
1) My blog is not People magazine, if you took the time to read any of it or talk to me, you would see that I write about the gospel, prophecy and current events in the light of scripture. I had had enough drama and so had my readers.
2) I also did it because I did’t want any identification with the viciousness which is now spreading both ways in this debate. For example Debby posted a picture of a smiling David Nathan with the caption, “Preacher after Preacher tried to take him down but he is still standing!”. What a carnal way to characterize what for some of us was an earnest concern for doctrinal integrity.
I definitely did not “fold under the pressure” s Kawaii falsely accuses me of … How would He, (or she?) You, or Frank know my motives? None of you ever spoke to me, and I am quite approachable. Shame on you for bearing false witness.
Make of it what you wish, but myself, Haller, Amos Ferrel and Ian Huxley really do have genuine concerns about David Nathan’s comments, it is not just a personal squabble among ministers.
Kawaii insults the notion by sneering that the four of us have led Jacob as an “adopted thinker” in some kind of a ridiculous “Echo Chamber”. 
He owes us all an apology as does everybody who has posted his clever, snide and corrosive videos.
I think you all owe me an apology and a retraction, even a public rebuttal of the slanders of me you have promoted. 
Respectfully yours- Pas bill please share with Frank and with Kawaii

Mike Rogers Response
Sat 4/13/2019 7:51 AM
Bill,
As Jude wrote, he intended to write about our common salvation but instead exhorted believers to earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. It would be so nice if we could all just gather together and enjoy the salvation given us by our Lord Jesus, wouldn’t it? But we cannot afford the luxury, as in the days of the Apostles we still must contend with evil men who’s only purpose is to elevate themselves above others and crush any who will not surrender to their will and purpose.

You appear to be concerned more about what people say about you than those who have been shipwrecked by Jacob Prasch. Just this past week someone plastered my name on their blog site saying things that were just untrue. I’m not concerned. What does my name matter in the service of Jesus Christ? I’m not going to acknowledge the individual as I have enough discernment to know it’s a bait and switch. Its what they want. I’m only concerned with what the Lord has tasked me to do, contend for the faith and fight for those who have been wronged by Jacob Prasch and men like him.

I haven’t seen you take a definitive stand against Jacob’s campaign to destroy David Nathan, the Menelaws or the countless others Prasch has destroyed. Who will minister to them, who will help them recover? I’ve seen you teeter on the fence, you did post one statement in defense of the Menelaw’s but then retracted it, as you said because your blog is not people magazine. Not exactly sure why you would use that analogy when the letter was defending the Menelaws as your friends, just as you say Jacob Prasch is.

James wrote, “My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.”

Church leadership is judged with a higher standard then those who follow, 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 give great attention to details, but James reminds that those in leadership will be held accountable for exemplifying Jesus Christ in their spirit and behavior, as well as their words and deeds. You should know better being in the ministry for 40 years. You should have clearer discernment. It should be easy for you to see Jacob for the brute he is, you should be able to see his destructive behavior. Yet you and many others sat silently by and watched even and especially when it violated Scripture. You do get some credit for initially speaking out about Prasch’s horrible treatment and behavior. Still at the end of it all was David Nathan continually asking for reconciliation, open to correction and desiring a meeting to make things right EVERY time he spoke, and he also corrected his error and still was asking for reconciliation and it was meant by you and others again with silence[ except for the videos you all were a part of to talk yet again about your “concerns” of what he had already repented of. You remain deaf to these facts even today as in the very email you sent to me, you still don’t acknowledge his repentance and correction of his error.

David Nathan in his brokenness, humility and earnest desire to reconcile has set the bar high, a standard that you nor anyone else mentioned here has even begun to meet and all he did was follow Scripture in trying to resolve all of this. This speaks volumes and many have realized the true error now is that of Jacob Prasch”s and all who support him.

I know what is required in ministry, both pastoral and otherwise, but I will never sit idle and silent and watch a man tear God’s sheep apart. If one is to be honest, Jacob doesn’t teach truth in many areas of his doctrine. He is misogynistic, hateful, and cruel. If he would have simply met with David Nathan privately over his doctrinal differences, everything that has happened since would have never been. But he refused! Another biblical error on his part. And like most sects, the people are more loyal to the leader then to Jesus Christ and His Word. Sadly, he acts similar to the cults he came out of.

I put no man on a pedestal, my loyalty is and will always be with Jesus Christ, His Word, and with those who align with Him, with the hurting, and those abused by “Church Leadership.”

For the record, I haven’t personally attacked you, I’ve approved videos and comments which have included you, but the greater focus was Jacob Prasch. I as well as many others have and will continue to expose him. People will no longer sit by and allow him to continue his destructive behavior defaming the Name of Jesus Christ.

If you want to clear your name then stand up and fight for those wounded by Prasch, be the pastor they need. Serving Jesus Christ comes with a cost, sometimes it cost us everything, our friendships, family, properties, even our own identities. We all must weigh the cost and the value of what we do and what we don’t do? As James wrote, we all stumble in many things, all we can do is own it and continue to earnestly contend for the faith. Preachers today want the recognition, the popularity, the money, and the power, but they never want to pay the cost for following Christ.

Also, your request that comments about you that you don’t approve of be “nixed “and that I should contact Frank Rogers and tbcKawaii for you and that you are owed an apology I will have to respectfully decline. At least until I see a biblical response publicly on behalf of David Nathan, the Menelaws, and many others wounded by Prasch. At that time I will be willing to amend comments in your defense. As I said, the greater focus is Jacob Prasch.

Below is a list of other issues from not only your email but the comments you’ve made on closingstages blog, which will also be made public. 

1. You state in the email you sent that you’ve “been a friend of Jacob Prasch’s until recently” and then in a comment on our blog on the same day you say “although I admit to being a friend of Jacobs (in spite of his flaws)”
So which is it Bill? Are you or aren’t you friends with Jacob? You see the problem here? You are still speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Let’s not forget that this whole issue involves much more than just character flaws, this is sin and error. 

2. “What got my attention was the headline “Bill Randles Continues his vilification of David Nathan” by Treena Gisborn” This of course was an article written by Treena and the real question needs to be put back on you as to why in the world you wouldn’t have contacted her directly as she is the author? I’ve found it very strange that you wouldn’t contact Treena Gisborn directly and start a dialog with her; so, I’m more than happy to forward this to her so that perhaps you will be able to clear the air on this with her. We support her position and you know as well as anyone that she speaks quite well for herself and is perfectly ready and willing to defend what she has written scripturally and otherwise.

3.“I challenge you to show me one instance of me abusing David Nathan in any way shape or form.” And “I have been operating out of sincere doctrinal concerns, and not as a mere flunky of Jacob Prasch’s” And “Make of it what you wish, but myself, Haller, Amos Ferrel and Ian Huxley really do have genuine concerns about David Nathan’s comments, it is not just a personal squabble among ministers.”
Your abuse and what you call “sincere doctrinal concerns “ amounted to open letters on your blog with no contact with David Nathan. You continued, as you still do, to regurgitate your “doctrinal concerns” as if David Nathan has never publicly reached out, asked for a meeting after meeting, and for reconciliation and was certainly open to correction. He admitted his error and corrected it. Yet you have never acknowledged that nor has Prasch, Haller, Ferrel or Huxley. But you ALL were willing to go on video to reinforce ALL of your “doctrinal concerns” that he has publicly admitted and corrected. He was meant with silence from you ALL, that’s abuse, that’s violating the scriptures, especially to continue to reiterate your “concerns” even in this email. Your intentional failure to meet with a man that is willing and pleading for reconciliation lays at all of your feet. The abuse lingers still as you have yet to reach out to him but still speak of an error he has corrected and repented of. Seems like there’s just some things you’re not letting go of here Bill. 

4. You also stated “I have forty years of ministry integrity”
Well between you, Haller, Ferrel, Huxley and Prasch there may be among you all a couple of hundred combined years of what you call “ministry integrity” yet not one of you could figure out how to do the right thing and meet with a brother? This remains to be answered.

It is my sincere hope and prayer that we all perhaps have learned to walk a little more circumspectly when it comes to truly adhering to God’s Word allowing it to change our hearts.

In Christ,
Mike Rogers

Also note that there were several comments that Bill made to Treena Gisborns article “Bill Randles continued vilification of David Nathan!

Thursday, 11 April 2019

IS JACOB PRASCH HAVING A LAUGH? PROFESSIONAL POLICE ASSESSMENT!


PROFESSIONAL POLICE ASSESSMENT OF MORIEL MINISTRIES & J. JACOB PRASCH
We the undersigned as professional experienced police investigators with over half a century of detective experience combined in the investigation of crime wish to respond regarding the vexatious claims made against Moriel Ministries and Jacob Prasch by those supporting a Mr. David Nathan of South Africa in a theological dispute and those acting in concert with them. We specifically refer to internet posted material by the Catalyst organisation acting in apparent concert with the 'My Organizer' business enterprise of Stuart & Debora Menelaus of Fife, Scotland operating variously under the names of Bethel Communications and GV 24/7, along with the continuing diatribe by someone using the pseudonym tbckwaii, Who does not have the credibility or courage to disclose who he really is.
We first of all note that the claim that Moriel is under investigation is in itself devoid of substance as there is and has been no investigation, criminal or otherwise, by any government , police, or judicial agency. It is a contrived and defamatory assertion intended to give Catalyst kudos but shows them to be rather inept and foolish.
As senior police detectives we fundamentally reject such assertions directed against the Moriel Ministry and against Jacob Prasch as bogus and having no merit nor actual evidence. We have all known Jacob Prasch personally and are well familiar with Moriel for a number of years and any inordinate activity either personal or financial would have been recognized by us, and detected by any police investigator over a period of time. There has been none however. From the perspective of a police investigation, these allegations appear manufactured, meritless and personally vindictive using immature bullying and harassment tactics falsely portrayed as qualified superiority.
From the initial leading of the witness David Nathan on the GV247 program to the continued use of hearsay and conjecture by Catalyst, they have only made themselves look vindictive and motivated by spite. There is no evidence that would pass any criminal or civil threshold test, and they know it, otherwise they would have handed it over to a statutory authority .There is no justifiable or evidential basis for this continued attack by apparent Christian brethren which is harassment asthere is nothing established on the basis of any verifiable fact.
Such defamatory claims moreover are readily off-set by a range of witnesses intimately familiar with Moriel and its director whose testimonies are uniformly an endorsement of honesty and an affirmation of good character.
It is our assessment as senior investigating police detectives from three different nations with lifetime careers investigation crime and fraud that no credible police agency or jurisdiction would lend credence to the demonstrably contorted insinuations and character assassination attempts found in these unsubstantiated charges aimed at Moriel Ministries and against Jacob Prasch. His integrity remains secure, but that of the afore-mentioned must be considered tarnished.
Sergeant Amos Farrell
Sr. Detective (ret)
Scotland Yard
Metropolitan Police,
London (UK)
Captain Michael Benade
Detective Commander (ret)
South African National Police
(So. Africa)
Sr. Sergeant Michael Keaney
Senior Investigating Detective
New Zealand Police (NZ)

Senior Investigating Police Detectives? I don't think so!!!

Are we supposed to take the above statement as a joke? Do these men have the authority to speak for the Police Authorities in their respective countries? Graham Baldwin has never claimed that an investigation by government, police, or judicial agency is underway! My understanding is that he is undertaking an investigation into Jacob Prasch/Moriel Ministries under the banner of Catalyst Counselling.

Critically, I have received information from the New Zealand Police Infringements Bureau that they have no record of Michael Keaney on their staff. They have informed me that this matter has been sent to the appropriate team for investigation. It is yet to be ascertained whether Farrell and Benade are genuine retired police officers. IF in fact they are, neither of them held senior positions!

Sergeant Amos Farrell Senior Detective:

There are no less than nine ranks above a Sergeant in the Metropolitan Police. {1} A senior position is well above the rank of Sergeant! {1} Here in the UK, the rank of Sergeant is above that of Police Constable, the lowest ranking police officer. In the Metropolitan Police, Farrell's title would have been Detective Sergeant and not Senior Detective.

Captain Michael Benade:


The rank of Captain in the South African Police is the second lowest rank, above that of Lieutenant. {2}

Sr. Sergeant Michael Keaney ?? 


The rank of Senior Sergeant in New Zealand is above that of Senior Constable and Sergeant. Inspectors and above are considered to be "Senior Detectives". {3} It appears that Keaney is not on the staff of the New Zealand Police in any event!

Well Jacob, the statement has been good for a laugh if nothing else!!! I nearly split my sides!

No one who practices deceit shall dwell in my house; no one who utters lies shall continue before my eyes. (Psalm 101:7).




1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police_Service
2. https://rekordmoot.co.za/124086/what-you-might-not-have-known-about-police-ranks/
3. http://firedognz.weebly.com/rank-structure2.html

Tuesday, 9 April 2019

A MESSAGE TO THE CHURCH FROM STEWART MENELAWS

-Statement-
I have been asked to make a statement regarding the recent shameful witness that began well and truly at the feet of Jacob Prasch and his uncontrolled temper.
Despite my wife having been threatened and slandered by email some time before my interview with David Nathan, (which was an astonishing shock), I wrote to Jacob Prasch (someone I have respectfully advised, prayed for and supported for many years) to meet with me in private. He refused (despite his bold rant saying he would debate me to his followers) and sent various emails that were disparaging, disrespectful and filled with falsehoods. It was clear there was no reasoning with this abusive figure (which I attested to David Lister) and The Lord tells us not to converse with divisive individuals.
My only recourse was to submit myself to God fearing Saints who along with myself set apart weeks of prayer before addressing Prasch/Moriel in accordance with Matthew 18.15-17. I was deeply troubled in spirit as many can testify and desired to see repentance and reconciliation. My beautiful wife who is well known for her charity and commitment to the Saviour was being slandered in a nature that was utterly vile and I had to keep my heart right and allow The Father to tie my hands and trust in Him.
Everything done to try and get Prasch to face this situation (in private) has been met with bullishness and arrogance of a type that is utterly disgraceful even in the eyes of non-believers. In all my 30+ years of service I have never witnessed anything like it even from cult groups.
For more than 30 years, my wife and I have served our Lord Jesus Christ and His Body at great cost (and He alone knows this) and it has grieved us greatly to have witnessed many believer’s lives destroyed by other’s sin and covered up by leadership and fearful congregations.
As called by The Lord - we have a great deal of experience in this area of gently helping spiritually abused people find their way back to the safe arms of The Father. Under no circumstance will we be a party to covering up the sin Prasch / Moriel have avoided to face up to, which has left a trail of victims.
The LORD has made it clear and there is no other way…
If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse someone of a crime, 17 the two people involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the LORD before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time. 18 The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite, 19 then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. You must purge the evil from among you. 20 The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing be done among you. (Deuteronomy 19:16-20)
Jacob Prasch must own up and put right the damage he alone is responsible for, as misguided zeal cannot justify his deplorable actions. Many people have written privately to him to that effect, hoping he would seek The Lord and do what is right. To date he has continued and also sanctions the slander of God fearing ministries and what is worst of all - he bullies and dishonours women because he is a coward.
Since the call to be accountable for his actions was rejected, the letter went out to a wider group of the church in-line with scripture asking all leaders to contact me for further information and discussion. I heard from a number of leaders who agreed but wanted to remain nameless for fear of having their names blasted all over social media as is Prasch’ s way.
Deborah has had to put public posts on Facebook in reply to numerous messages. Of course it is improper to bring such situations into the public domain but it was Moriel who took it into that realm themselves leaving no way of recourse since direct responses are never shared by Moriel. We have numerous records and accounts from around the world and we have not made any of them public, despite continuous false allegations that we are paying people to make nasty films about Jacob / Moriel. So we have indeed been restrained in the hope that given time, Godly sorrow would lead to repentance.
Please be assured, that if my secular production company were to make a film, there will be no doubt about who made it. At present I am involved in far more important and far reaching works for The Lord.
To date – every twisted piece of rhetoric regarding myself and my God fearing wife has been completely false and slanderous. I have offered leadership to come and visit us at our studio so that they may prayerfully see the facts, ask any questions and be encouraged by the breadth of work our hard working team are involved in.
Not only has no supporter of Moriel taken me up on this, they don’t even have the decency or courage to contact me directly. I am a very busy person but I am easy to contact and more than willing to take time with those who genuinely desire to walk upright with the Saviour.
For those immature in the faith who think that everything can be swept under the carpet because you think the name of Christ is being brought into disrepute, do not be fooled by such sentiment. It is The Lord who demands wickedness to be uncovered / exposed in accordance with His Holy Word.
The danger of leaving cancerous rot to continue its course is fatal. And while cancer can go into remission and make it look as though it has disappeared – it’s only a matter of time before it continues its march of death on the body.
For every leader who believes they have been called of The Lord – we will all be held accountable for covering sin. Correction is one thing, but spiritual abuse and false testimony are completely different.
I repeat, I certainly welcome any examination of our service before The Lord as we have nothing to hide and everything to share.
And in regard to the challenges David Nathan faced, we asked him to travel from South Africa to Scotland where we and other pastors examined the accusations for 4 days in which he gave a good account. David knew he needed to amend those areas of concern where required and to explain himself to others, which he was more than willing to do – and did do.
The way he was treated was disgraceful.
Let me ask you a question. If you wanted to repent and put right anything you may have done wrong, and you wrote many letters explaining these things, asking to meet and to be given a fair hearing, but you received no response… you are denied the right to repent and put things right. In fact, you are vilified time and time again without recourse. How would you feel? That is what was done to David Nathan and the dated email trail bears witness to this.
But that is what bullies and cult groups do. They control communication, they want to debate, but only if there is a camera there to film it all so they can show off.
I will not be a party to a cover-up of these many disgraces and repeat the words of our brother the apostle Paul –
Therefore I want men everywhere to pray, lifting up Holy Hands, without anger or dissension. (1 Timothy 2:8)
Please share freely with believers.

Saturday, 6 April 2019

MY RESPONSE TO JOSHUA CHAVEZ: IS JACOB PRASCH REALLY UNDER INVESTIGATION?

Below is a very brief response to Joshua Chavez and his latest attempt to ridicule and defame those who have taken a stand against Jacob Prasch.

Is Jacob Prasch Really Under Investigation?
http://beginningofsorrows.org/2019/04/04/jacob-prasch-under-investigation/?fbclid=IwAR1kj4KJ62AAwaGSCX7dpRWfuyyrERS24FRmltp6vkdHc3vbvmkiAe_plgQ

I will only address the ad hominem attack aimed directly against myself.

Chavez: "Pat and Treena both contacted Jacob several years ago asking him baiting questions about women teachers." I have never contacted Prasch about women teachers! I did have direct contact with Moriel Ministries when I questioned them about Prasch's dubious intra-seal theory back in 2016! I communicated directly with Elon Moleh of Moriel Israel at that time:

Hi Treena,

Jacob's mobility is somewhat restricted at the moment, but he is more than happy to meet you face to face to discuss your concerns, as he can see that they are honest questions. I have copied him in on this e-mail, so if you wish to arrange between yourselves a meeting? His e-mail address should show up above. I will leave it to the two of you to arrange the details.

Blessings,
Elon


After exchanging a couple more emails with Elon, the suggested meeting came to nothing, due to the fact that I had reservations about meeting Prasch in London face to face. I can provide copies of these emails for anyone who is interested. After those emails, I left a question on a YouTube video of David Nathan's about Prasch's intra-seal rapture theory. The response that came back directly from Prasch was very abusive. It was at that point that I began seriously challenging intra-seal, not as an "obsession" as you claim, but as a matter of serious concern that Prasch was not the teacher he claimed to be.

Regarding the Rome Statute

Joshua Chavez: "She also cites the Rome Statute as some law that affords her protection. The Rome Statute is a treaty that established an international criminal court to prosecute things like genocide and crimes against humanity. Treena Gisborn apparently thinks so highly of herself that anyone that would dare to “violate her privacy” would be on par with someone guilty of genocide. This is either supreme narcissism or delusion.."

I do realise what the Rome Statute is about Joshua. I believed that the statement, which was forwarded to me, would give me some protection from Facebook and its associates using my information unethically or as "hate speech" at some future point. However it seems that this is not the case after all. I do not consider a breach of my privacy on a par with someone guilty of genocide - this is a ridiculous accusation! According to Snopes, it appears that statements like these are useless actually, so I must thank you for drawing attention to my error. {1} I have now removed the statement from my FB page.

Incidentally, Moriel Israel must also be under the same "delusion" since they also cite the Rome Statute!!!



















The Guardian recently reported an example of Facebooks breach under the Data Protection Act: "Revealed 50 million Facebook profiles harvested for Cambridge Analytica in major data breach. “Facebook has failed to provide the kind of protections they are required to under the Data Protection Act,” said Elizabeth Denham, the information commissioner. ... The £500,000 cap was set by the Data Protection Act 1998." {2} This is an issue I think we should all be concerned about.

One of my FB friends, Carol Dunderdale, posted the comment: "Hope your OK Treena not upset xx".  I am pretty sure that this comment has been taken out of context and pasted separately underneath my Rome Statute post. I remember Carol being concerned about my health at one point because I suffer from osteoarthritis. If you had read the whole conversation, which I am sure you did, you would have realised what this comment related to. Nevertheless you chose to use it to defame me. This kind of dishonesty does you no favours Joshua! (Proverbs 11:3).

Carol Dunderdale's confirmation: "I also think it was when you weren't feeling well Treena, positively not anything to do with the Rome Statute which I have never heard of. The original comment to yourself needs to be found and he needs to be challenged on the use of it without our permission which you may be able to do as I have never heard of him either. Talk tomorrow, keep smiling. Roy & Carol."

Am I a feminist? Most definitely not! I have stated previously that I believe that church leadership should be male and that women should not have authority over men. (1 Timothy 2:12). Nevertheless, I do object to Prasch cutting and pasting various New Testament passages and making up his own rules about what women can and cannot do within the congregation. My post on this subject illustrates that God can and does use women as well as men, Deborah being the most obvious example:

The Gagging of the Sisters 
https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2016/07/jacob-prasch-moriel-ministries-gagging.html

Both yourself and Prasch have played the "Jezebel" card too often! It is nothing more than a smoke screen in order to deflect attention from the main issue i.e. Prasch's false teaching and dishonesty!

I am sorry you don't like my photo! I admit to looking serious, but I wouldn't say that I was "scowling". I am not photogenic, but I didn't think it was about outward appearance! (1 Samuel 16:7; 2 Corinthians 5:7. 10:7).

Joshua, there is something seriously wrong here. I suggest you concentrate your efforts on the theological issues associated with Prasch's scripture twisting and his abusive behaviour towards others, rather than maligning those who are exposing his lack of integrity! If this is the best you can do to defame myself and others then it is very miserable attempt.

1. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/facebook-posts-made-public/

Thursday, 4 April 2019

CHE AHN CONFERENCE: ST JOHN THE BAPTIST CHURCH LEICESTER MAY 2019

St John the Baptist C of E Church Leicester
Friday 17th and 18th May: Ché Ahn Revival Night and Conference
Organised by Holy Trinity Church

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/revival-night-with-che-ahn-tickets-59413580619

The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) continues to make a negative impact on biblical Christianity here in Leicester. Of particular note are Holy Trinity Church Leicester (CofE), All Nations Church Leicester and Trinity Life Church Leicester (AOG Pentecostal). (Romans 16:17). The NAR is a large network of ecumenical churches that has developed out of the Pentecostal/charismatic movement. Its main aim is to restore the so called "five fold ministry" i.e. the restoration of church governance, namely the office of Apostle and Prophet to the 21st century church. This aim is linked to the "seven mountain mandate" aka "dominion theology", the NAR's pro active efforts to bring about a worldwide revival and establish a one world church on the earth prior to the return of Jesus. In actuality the NAR scenario represents the rule of the Antichrist. (Revelation 13:12). At its core, the NAR denies the sufficiency of scripture whilst reversing the biblical warnings of an end time falling away. (Matthew 24:10; Acts 20:29).

Ché Ahn is a big name within this movement. He is the successor of C Peter Wagner, the purported founder of the NAR and President of Global Harvest Ministries from 1993 to 2011. Ché Ahn is the Senior Pastor of "apostolic center" HRock Church in Pasadena CA and also the Founder and "Presiding Apostle" over Harvest International Ministry, an "apostolic network" of over 25,000 churches and ministries worldwide. Ché Ahn: "I have been given the unique opportunity to be an apostle to apostles. This is because of the specific anointing of God on my life." {1}

As "Presiding Apostle", Ché Ahn has a position of unique authority over the direction of the thousands of churches under his jurisdiction. This differs drastically from the New Testament model of church structure as outlined by the Apostle Paul. The newly formed New Testament churches were autonomous congregations with a plurality of local overseers directing their own specific affairs. Paul instructed Titus to ..appoint elders in every town as I directed you. (Titus 1:5; cf. Acts 14:23). NAR apostles and prophets claim to have power to overrule pastors and elders because of their claims to receive direct revelation from God.

Ché Ahn met the pope in 2016 with other NAR leaders

According to Ché Ahn: " The 1994 revival in Toronto restored the office of the apostle with the birth of many apostolic networks, including John and Carol Arnott’s Partners in Harvest, Rick Joyner’s MorningStar, Bill Johnson’s Global Legacy, Heidi and Rolland Baker’s Iris Ministries and our church’s own Harvest International Ministry.” {2}

During the so called "Lakeland Revival" in 2008, 32 year old deceiver and NAR "evangelist" Todd Bentley took part in an "Alignment Ceremony", during which "apostles" Ché Ahn, Bill Johnson and John Arnott laid hands on him. C Peter Wagner presided over the ceremony and read a lengthy statement about the need for apostolic alignment, i.e. submission to the authority of "apostles". Various "apostles" representing ICA, Revival Alliance, and Morning Star (Rick Joiner) stood on the platform to demonstrate their support for Bentley. Just days after this bizarre ceremony, Todd Bentley was exposed as an adulterer. None of the numerous miracles and healings that were reported to have taken place at Lakeland, including raising from the dead, can be verified! Despite the obvious issues, Ché Ahn and his dubious associates continue to claim apostolic authority over large sections of the church, and incredibly they are accepted as such by many! The Todd Bentley Fakeland fiasco hardly needs recounting in detail, it has been very well documented.



Apostolic Authority Based on Ephesians 4:11-13.

11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12to equip (καταρτισμὸν) the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

C Peter Wagner translated katartizō: "Aligning. literally setting a broken bone or a chiropractic adjustment.. That means putting things in order so that the body functions as it was designed to function." 

Strong's translation: 2675 katartízō (from 2596 /katá, "according to, down," intensifying artizō, "to adjust," which is derived from 739 /ártios, "properly adjusted") – properly, exactly fit (adjust) to be in good working order, i.e. adjusted exactly "down" to fully function. {3}

Wagner's translation was not incorrect, apart from the fact that he related it to the restoration of present day "apostles". My contention is that these present day "apostles and prophets" deviate from the original foundation that was set up by Jesus Christ. In Bill Johnson's words, they go "off map", i.e. they claim that God communicates new revelations directly through them. In this way, they contradict Jesus' apostles teaching as set out in the scriptures. In doing so they invalidate themselves as sound biblical teachers. (1 John 4:1).

Che Ahn: "When I use the term modern-day apostle, I am not comparing today’s apostles with the apostles of yesteryear. I am highlighting the fact that apostles are not relegated to yesteryear. They not only exist today, they play a critical role in bringing about revival and reformation." {4}

Typically, Che Ahn puts himself on a par with the original apostles, but this contradicts the foundation already laid:

19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:19-22).

11For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.


St John the Baptist Church (CofE) is the latest of the churches in Leicester to fall foul of the New Apostolic Reformation. St John's ties with Holy Trinity Church in Leicester appears to be responsible for the shift. In late 2014, a team of people from Holy Trinity Leicester joined St John's to "strengthen the church’s mission and ministry." {5}

Suffice to say that St John's run the Alpha Course which has been described as an attempt to introduce the false doctrines and practices of the Third Wave into mainstream denominations. {6}

St John's Head of Logistics is Adam Simmonds, the much criticised former PCC of Northamptonshire, whose overspending and unwholesome policies have pretty much all been reversed by his successor, Stephen Mold. {7}

Simmonds was also the Director and Trustee of Trinity Life Church in Leicester from January 2013 – April 2014. As part of my exposé of TLC's unbiblical practices, I wrote a number of posts about Simmonds' toxic influence over the weak minded apostate leaders of that church. {8}

1. https://hrockchurch.com/modern-day-apostle/
2. https://books.google.co.uk/books?
3. https://biblehub.com/greek/2675.htm
4. https://hrockchurch.com/modern-day-apostle/
5. https://www.sjbchurch.co.uk/about-us
6. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/alpha.html
7. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-36767050
8.https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/search/label/Adam%20Simmonds%20PCC%20Northampton


Further Links:

http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain54.htm
https://churchwatchcentral.com/2017/04/06/why-wagner-was-the-leader-of-the-nar-part-1-examining-the-lakeland-apostolic-alignment-ceremony/
http://www.spiritoferror.org/2017/09/new-nar-group-to-keep-your-eyes-on-the-international-coalition-of-prophets/7021