Bill Randles email to Mike Rogers (excerpt):
I challenge you to show me one instance of me abusing David Nathan in any way shape or form. I am a friend of the Nathan’s and still count myself to be so, and have never abused him in writing or otherwise. (I am sure he himself would affirm this, so I am copying him). .
The full text of Bill Randles email to Mike Rogers can be found on: https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2019/04/closingstages-bill-randles-re-jacob.html
David Nathan’s email to Bill Randles:
Dear Bill
In response to the email you copied me in on.
As a friend of mine can you please explain to me the following,
Why you never sent me a copy of the open letter you wrote on your blog in October 2018 but I had to find out about it some time later through third parties?
Why you deleted my response to that blog three times in the comments section as if I had not responded at all? I attached a link to my response in order to refresh your memory (https://www.bolm.co.za/index_htm_files/Response%20to%20Bill%20Randles%20-%20Open%20Letter.pdf)
Why to date you still have not responded to my email from December 2018 in which I asked you to explain where my doctrine was heretical? An email you acknowledged that you received but have never responded to.
Why you have not retracted the accusation that Kristin, your wife, made on a Facebook group, writing in both your names, in which she said that I was involved in the church spilt at your church when in fact the complete opposite was true and I tried to get all parties to meet and resolve their issues?
Why you have publicly stated that on three or four occasions you privately spoke to me warning me about my doctrine when I can emphatically state that we have never once had any such conversations? You only ever made a comment once and that was when I did a Q&A with Jacob at your church. You said that there cannot be salvation outside of the blood of Jesus. I agreed with your statement as that is what I believe and teach if you listen to my teaching and not edited clips from Moriel.
Why on social media you continued to call me a heretic?
Why my daughter, without my knowledge at the time, had to plead with you to stop your involvement in the attacks against me?
Why you allowed Al Pileggi, a very questionable character to use your church facilities to film his videos titled “Please David Nathan” which Moriel then used to further vilify me?(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMC66VQDVYzRYPHlccdQDlg)
Why you made a video with Amos Farrell and others before ever trying to contact me and asking me to explain my actual doctrinal views instead of believing an audio clip, taken way out of context, posted by Farrell that was less than 20 seconds of an entire teaching? Your own statement of faith and I quote states, “We believe that Jesus Christ is our Creator…” That is precisely the point that I made in the teaching for which I have been vilified.
I chose to remove myself from this debacle when I finally realised that Moriel and others had no desire to meet and resolve this whole affair but rather sought my destruction. I never would have thought that you would have conducted yourself the way you have in all this. I did at one point consider you a friend but I am struggling to reconcile our friendship with your conduct throughout this whole business. I have never treated a friend the way I have been treated by you and others. For that matter, I have never treated a fellow believer the way that I have been treated by you. Perhaps my understanding of friendship is very different to you and others.
Hopefully in time we can be true friends again.
David Nathan
Bill Randles Response to David Nathan:
Sun 4/14/2019 9:26 AM Wow. Yes I can, I am happy to, but not until after We have church- Pastor Bill Randles.
Bill Randles <pastorbillrandles@gmail.com>
It has been brought to my attention that Bill Randles has been in touch with David Nathan. Those emails have not been released. It is my prayer that both men can work their differences out.
https://closingstages.net/2019/04/15/fact-checking-bill-randles/
It's reached the point where, no matter what they say or how "sincerely" they try to explain themselves, Moriel and friends have been exposed as less than honest and less than righteous. That's simply the bottom line of the whole thing. What's been exposed can't be shoved back into the closet and hidden - it's out for all to see.
ReplyDeleteDN has shown himself to be Godly, seeking reconciliation, showing repentance and willingness to make corrections where needed. He has shown nothing but humility and a desire for righteousness to prevail throughout this terrible ordeal.
But on the other hand, Moriel and friends have shown themselves to be two-faced, sneaky, deceptive, dishonest, and un-Christlike. They have lied freely and repeatedly. They have twisted facts to their favor and attempted to conceal their ungodliness in how they've dealt with not only DN but others as well. They have shown themselves to be fearful of man rather than fearful of God, in choosing to appease egos and maintain financially beneficial relationships rather than choosing to please God and maintain truth, forgiveness, and justice.
I am very saddened at what's been perpetrated against DN - this horrific, abusive, relentless crusade against a man who truly has done nothing to deserve such wicked treatment by those who not only claim to be Christians but also set themselves up as shepherds over God's flock! Most unbelievers aren't even this wicked in their dealings with one another, yet this has occurred in the Body of Christ! The shame! Woe to these men, for they have clearly forgotten the fear of the Lord. They have done great evil and we must all pray that they repent before the Lord's anger burns against them. Of course, they don't believe they're in any danger according to their behavior and constant attempts at justifying themselves in what they've done. But they fool themselves.
DN does not have perfect theology. Neither does Prasch. Neither does Randles. Neither does anyone on the face of the earth. There are much worse men in this world than DN, doing much evil and devouring the sheep. DN has done no such thing, yet those accusing him HAVE done harm to the sheep and even now they still refuse to accept responsibility for what they've done.
Moriel and friends are not true men of God. That much has been made clear. They can harp on and on all day about how long they've been in ministry, how many good works they've done, how many conferences they've spoken at, how many books they've written, how much Greek and Hebrew they know - and yet, for all their "works" and "scholarship", they've missed the mark in displaying the fruits of the Spirit and following in the footsteps of Christ.
To David Nathan - brother, you remain in our prayers. I am reminded of Exodus 14:14. God bless you and your family.
Reading your comment Anonymous I thought of 1 Corinthians 13:
ReplyDelete"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." (1 Corinthians 13:4-7).
These men have missed the mark in the most important thing of all.
God bless
Absolutely, Treena. A true man of God would never seek the destruction of another believer, nor would he sit by while his friends did it, either. And yet, here we are. We are all witnesses to a very public and very shameful campaign to destroy a brother in Christ who in no way deserves it. But brother DN is in good company - our Lord was persecuted and mistreated for crimes he never committed as well. He is sharing in the sufferings of Christ and I have no doubt that there will be a tremendous blessing for DN at the end of it.
ReplyDeleteThere are clear guidelines for church discipline, Matthew 18:15-17 for instance. Jacob Prasch, Bill Randles and the rest of their horde have failed to meet this simplest principles of doctrine when dealing with an erroring brother. Everywhere I go and study church doctrine I see where the effort to restore and reconcile is present. That is always the end game! To foster unity in the body of Christ, to bear one another's burdens and to speak the truth in love are the halmarks of Christian character. I don't see any with the Prasch sect. The biggest issue is David Nathan never met the conditions set for correction. He made it clear he misspoke, and later publicly provided his doctrinal beliefs which are in line with Scripture. Their seems to be a delusion among Prasch and his counter parts preventing them from seeing the whole picture. Either that or they are willfully and willingly deceived. Which ever the case, it has and is causing much damage in the body of Christ. When people like myself and Treena speak out, often it is hard to clear the fog left in the wake of those whose sole purpose is to destroy. Very few can rise above it and do the right thing. My prayer is that Bill Randles and Jacob Prasch will see their error and repent, however I wouldn't count on that happening as it may just be a delusion sent by God himself as a judgment.
ReplyDeleteI could not fathom how Bill Randles, who I have a lot of respect for, could take part in the Amos Farrell organised 'round table' discussion (witch-hunt) with John Haller & Ian Huxham. They all claimed that David Nathan had not responded to the doctrinal concerns, that he had not repented or corrected his teachings. It was unfathomable because it was very obvious that David Nathan HAD publicly addressed these concerns, and he HAD publicly repented and made public corrections where necessary. To then hear that Bill Randles had earlier deleted David Nathan's public response THREE times from his blog, and then pretended David Nathan had not responded is nothing short of scandalous. I would be grateful to Bill if he would publicly comment on exactly why he repeatedly deleted David Nathan's addressing of these concerns and then pretended that David Nathan had not addressed them. Did he refuse to read David Nathan's public comments and instead choose to believe the smear campaign and slander of people like Amos Farrell? To see Bill lower himself in such a way, to lower himself to the level of a buffoon like Amos Farrell, was very disturbing. Bill, please let us know why you ignored and deleted David Nathan's public addressing of the doctrinal concerns, and joined in with the subsequent smearing of the man, rather than loving your brother as yourself...
ReplyDeletePrasch's teaching is also in error, but no one mentions that problem! I asked Bill Randles to look at Prasch's dodgy intra-seal theory.. he agreed initially and said he would get back to me with his assessment. This has never happened. He did begrudgingly admit that Prasch's Counting the Omer teaching "might not be quite right".
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mike, the whole idea of church discipline is to restore a brother/sister and maintain unity within the Body of Christ. Prasch decided to attack David Nathan for his own reasons.. after David told Prasch and Lister that he had decided to leave Moriel. I think that Prasch's intentions were to destroy him from the outset.
God bless.
For what it’s worth, myself and others had our comments deleted from Bill Randles’ blog posts, as well as having our comments deleted and being blocked from the Moriel Facebook page. My crime? Asking legitimate questions such as those that have been asked in this blog post, and asking for these men to repent.
ReplyDeleteLiterally, dozens of people have been blocked from the Moriel Facebook page for the same reason. Moriel and Bill are intentionally shutting down anyone who attempts to shed light on the truth. Someone called men such as Randles and Haller “spin doctors” and rightfully so - they have to spin everything in their favor (by “their” I mean themselves and Moriel) and shut down anyone who threatens that.
Throw the dishonest Marco Quintana into the mix, who tried to appear on video as an objective third party while failing to disclose that he’s a paid Moriel board member! Spin, spin, spin...
I won't even bother commenting on Joshua Chavez. That's a sad, pitiful soul right there.
The question has to be asked - is there ANYONE associated with Moriel that's actually an honest person who fears the Lord?
https://closingstages.net/2019/04/16/another-warning-shot-to-those-who-will-hear-run-from-jacob-praschs-error-addendum-by-tbckawaii/
ReplyDeletePavia Prasch (not) teaching at Moriel's Northern Conference this year. This section was cut within a day of the conference being aired on YouTube for unknown reasons.
vimeo.com/326214223
Password: Amos
Our children if they are adults are responsible for their own actions and many have children who are a work in progress.
ReplyDeleteBut what caused Eli Prasch who is Jacobs son to move in with the Randles?
Jacob in many recordings states Eli was a tank driver in the IDF,in the world of finance in London , a lawyer etc..
Does Eli work in Iowa?
This whole affair is just one big stinky mess.
I would not trust anyone in the Moriel Echo Chamber.
Why did Bill's church split?
I know here in the UK I saw Bills wife speaking some kind of 1 slyable gibberish.
And it was not the gift of tongues.
She leads worship the same way they did in Toronto or Brownsville.
Frankly its good to see this junk finally getting air.
And the Moriel people will continue to defend their cult leader at any cost
One final thought. Also here in the UK Moriel a year or so ago was the covering for Zarapath Ministries somewhere in Rughly , UK. The pastor there is a female named Julie. You can examine here teachings on Vimeo.
ReplyDeleteJacob was aware that Julie is a female pastor.
Zarephath Ministries are no longer with Moriel at this point but were for years.
Who is discerning the discernment ministries?
A Moriel affiliated church, Reddish Christian Fellowship, has joined an ecumenical pro Roman Catholic group Fusionmovement.org. Prasch is speaking there in May.. His ecumenical connections continue Anonymous.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.fusionmovement.org/church/1620?fbclid=IwAR2kAreZvqkkXaze8kFN8ze83y9BDn-llLvu-5iLf3c5SOXsbV29ajOhblU
https://www.fusionmovement.org/church/15?fbclid=IwAR2EKBB4YfIdjr2fzep-sPo3Hzf4XnrudfQebr3m0L7UReDVscuy7ZG3kR4
God bless.
Anonymous, shame on you for slandering me, my wife and my ministry without even talking to me either by email or on purpose. I have come to expect such slander from people like Treena and Mike Rogers, but I don't even know who you are? Why don't you contact me at my e-mail, and discuss this in the light like Christians should and not just smear me, a pastor, father and husband, someone you obviously do not know and as far as I can tell you never spoke to me before. You have passed on several lies that others have told, such as hat I deleted David's article. David posted his article on my facebook wall, I forwarded it to many and David even thanked me for doing so. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
ReplyDeleteNeither Mike Pat or I have slandered you Bill! ?? In light of the recent video evidence from Frank Rogers what do you have to say about it now?
ReplyDeleteHere is a slander you have participated in by agreement and publishing, it is a lie , " To then hear that Bill Randles had earlier deleted David Nathan's public response THREE times from his blog, and then pretended David Nathan had not responded is nothing short of scandalous. I would be grateful to Bill if he would publicly comment on exactly why he repeatedly deleted David Nathan's addressing of these concerns and then pretended that David Nathan had not addressed them. Did he refuse to read David Nathan's public comments and instead choose to believe the smear campaign and slander of people like Amos Farrell? To see Bill lower himself in such a way, to lower himself to the level of a buffoon like Amos Farrell, was very disturbing. Bill, please let us know why you ignored and deleted David Nathan's public addressing of the doctrinal concerns, and joined in with the subsequent smearing of the man, rather than loving your brother as yourself...'None of this is true...I did not delete David's response, He went ahead and posted it on my facebook, and I reposted it and copied it to many...I thought he chose to do it that way.
ReplyDeleteThis too is a lie, "For what it’s worth, myself and others had our comments deleted from Bill Randles’ blog posts, as well as having our comments deleted and being blocked from the Moriel Facebook page. My crime? Asking legitimate questions such as those that have been asked in this blog post, and asking for these men to repent.
Literally, dozens of people have been blocked from the Moriel Facebook page for the same reason. Moriel and Bill are intentionally shutting down anyone who attempts to shed light on the truth. Someone called men such as Randles and Haller “spin doctors” and rightfully so - they have to spin everything in their favor (by “their” I mean themselves and Moriel) and shut down anyone who threatens that. " look at the commentary on my Facebook and on my blog, I allowed all criticism as I thought I was facilitating an honest discusssion.
Mike has slandered me quite a bit on his blog calling me a coward among other names. Yet he won't talk to me, he would rather slime me ,posting a private email between David and myself and then not posting my response, then calling me out for having no response. You guys are pathetic.
You Treena slander me in the title, "Bill Randles Continues His vilification of David Nathan" , sorry I have not vilified DN I have only tried to have a rational discussion about some very outrageous things he has said, and have not been satisfied by his "explanations".To call that vilification is to bring the whole discernment mandate into disrepute. In fact the truth is You all are vilifying me. If that is hat you have to do to get internet traffic, I guess it must be alright.
Bill, do you mean discuss this in the light like you and Jacob did with David Nathan? Oh, that's right, you deleted his comments three times and ignored him for 9 months with the exception of a debate. You have been given every opportunity to do the right thing, to do right by David Nathan and the Menelaws and at every turn you have sided with Jacob, either in word or action, or the lac of action. You know full will Jacob Prasch in and has been in the wrong and yet you stand silently by doing nothing but touting your integrity and your position as a pastor. Everything I have posted is factual concerning you, it is you who must come clean and repent. You have every chance to converse with Treena, yet when pressured to give responses you delete her from facebook and run back into hiding like a coward. Man up and grow a set and stand for the truth, cowarding in a corning is no place for a "pastor."
ReplyDeleteBill these two question were addressed to you from David Nathan in his email.
ReplyDelete1. Why you deleted my response to that blog three times in the comments section as if I had not responded at all? I attached a link to my response in order to refresh your memory
2. Why to date you still have not responded to my email from December 2018 in which I asked you to explain where my doctrine was heretical? An email you acknowledged that you received but have never responded to.
Was David Nathan lying? And if he wasn't, why do you say that they are lies if indeed you deleted DN's comment on your blog three times? You seem to skirt the real issues and deflect from answering any hard question by telling everyone they are slandering you. You act very similar to JP in that you expect accountability from David Nathan but are not accountable yourself. So it you have the integrity you claim, answer these three simple questions.
1. Why, if you had issues with David Nathans doctrine did you not go to him “as a friend” (your words), and address these issues with him personally?
2. Why did you delete David Nathan’s comment on your blog three times and ignore his plea for correction and reconciliation?
3. What would it take for you to be satisfied with David Nathans repentance?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmml7O2_zAc&t=80s
Comment from "Truth Dispener"
Despite what he claims, people very close to Prasch have covered his deceit for years because
James (Jimmy) A. Prasch comes from a Catholic family with no Jewish blood.
Both parents were catholic going back many generations.
Prasch is not a Jewish surname and his dad who was a New York cop was buried in St Mary's catholic cemetery. In fact, Prasch is named after his dad and BOTH have the same middle name of Aloysius after the catholic saint of the same name.
His dad's memorial stone also shows his older brother's name and has the sign of The Cross and the Freemason's compasses on it.
The New Jersey synagogues have no record of a catholic boy of that name converting to Judaism or receiving his bar mitzvah.
This will come as a shock to the many people who followed Prasch, because they thought he was Jewish. When he first began the charade many years ago, he called himself Yacov - and many still call him that in England.
When he was challenged about it, he then changed his name to Jacob, which most people now call him, but his family and old friends continue to call him by his real name of Jimmy.
Yes, he married a Jewish girl he met in Israel. Yes, they lived in Galilee and yes, he has learned some Hebrew and Yiddish.
But that's as far as it goes.
He is not called Jacob the Deceiver for nothing, his entire ministry being built upon lies.
I am confident that David Nathan is not a liar Bill. If he says that you deleted his response three times in the comments section of your blog, then I believe him. He even attached the link to refresh your memory. https://www.bolm.co.za/index_htm_files/Response%20to%20Bill%20Randles%20-%20Open%20Letter.pdf)
ReplyDeleteAfter David Nathan sent you the email recently you said that you would respond to him "after we have church". To my knowledge you have not done so?
The recent video by Frank Rogers is evidence that Prasch is an out and out liar. As Mike says, you have consistently acted against David Nathan at every turn whilst claiming to be his "friend". This is the worst kind of treachery (Matthew 26:48-49).
Now that you find yourself in a tight corner you are lashing out at Mike, Pat and myself with all kinds of false accusations against us! You claim to know our motives for exposing Prasch's terrible conspiracy against DN, but you know nothing about us. This is pathetic. As a "pastor" you should know better. My view is that you and the other so called "leaders" involved in this wickedness against DN should stand down from your positions immediately.
It has been brought to my attention that Bill Randles has been in touch with David Nathan. Those emails have not been released.
ReplyDelete