Mon 4/8/2019 3:24 PM
Mike I would like to clear up some misconceptions that You, Frank Rogers and a person named tbcKawaii are furthering about my role in the recent Jacob Prasch David Nathan fiasco. I hope I can get Frank Roger’s and Kawaii’s e-mails as well.
I have been a friend of Jacob Prasch’s until recently, and have travelled in similar circles, preaching in the same venues, etc. I have hosted Jacob in my own church BIG (Believers In Grace Fellowship) in the past.
My problem with you, Frank and the mysterious tbckawaii is your lumping me with Prasch, and vilifying me unjustly on your blogs and in the ridiculously snide and slanderous series of videos that you promote.
What got my attention was the headline “Bill Randles Continues his vilification of David Nathan” by Treena Gisborn.
In the first place, I have not vilified David Nathan, in all of my interaction with him I have gone out of my way to be decent and respectful to him, as you can see here, https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/11/15/clarifying-a-difficult-situation-jacob-p-and-david-n/ and here , https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/10/12/one-helpful-suggestion-maybe-an-open-letter-to-david-nathan/and even in the article which you and treena find so objectionable, here, https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/12/30/why-there-is-still-a-question-david-nathan/ .
I challenge you to show me one instance of me abusing David Nathan in any way shape or form. I am a friend of the Nathan’s and still count myself to be so, and have never abused him in writing or otherwise. (I am sure he himself would affirm this, so I am copying him) I am asking you to cut through the cynicism, and for a moment put aside your feelings about Jacob Prasch and to realize that whether I have been right or wrong on the issue, I have been operating out of sincere doctrinal concerns, and not as a mere flunky of Jacob Prasch’s.
I am not Moriel, I do not support Moriel anymore (for many reasons) and do not wish to be wrongly associated with the very same things I critiqued Moriel for, (and paid quite a personal price for I might add) but gladly as I am a man of principle.
My objections and interaction with David preceded Jacobs. Three or four years ago when I first met David, Jacob tried to urge me to publicly endorse David, and I refused because I didn’t know him yet. I spoke at his church a year later and when the Q/A involving David and I arose David was asked about the cleansing by sacrifice in the Millennium. I publicly disavowed his answer, right there in his own church.(I honestly thought he misspoke).
I admit that eventually I did endorse David after getting to know him, and feeling better about him, and I even had He and Jacob in my own church (the last time the two spoke together). Two weeks before that meeting I warned David by text about making extreme statements about the Blood of Jesus, and again in the meetings at my church the issue arose again, to which I publicly objected.
My concerns about David preceded Jacob’s concerns and in no way am I the flunky and sycophant your friend Kawaii makes me out to be.
The blog post I wrote, publicly endorsing the Menelaws has been vastly misrepresented as well. First of all, why did I write it?
Because I had stayed with the Menelaws and they were being misrepresented as getting rich off of the Daniel project. I knew that wasn’t true. I also knew Debby was going through quite a few traumas personally besides her ongoing feud with Jacob. The final straw was hearing Jacob rant something on a vlog to the effect that ” The Menelaws are liars and frauds and Bill Randles says so too!”.
So I set the record straight.
Why did I take it down? This too is constantly being misrepresented by the little clique you are in concert with…
I did not take it down under any pressure from Jacob, I took it down for two reasons;
1) My blog is not People magazine, if you took the time to read any of it or talk to me, you would see that I write about the gospel, prophecy and current events in the light of scripture. I had had enough drama and so had my readers.
2) I also did it because I did’t want any identification with the viciousness which is now spreading both ways in this debate. For example Debby posted a picture of a smiling David Nathan with the caption, “Preacher after Preacher tried to take him down but he is still standing!”. What a carnal way to characterize what for some of us was an earnest concern for doctrinal integrity. I definitely did not “fold under the pressure” s Kawaii falsely accuses me of … How would He, (or she?) You, or Frank know my motives? None of you ever spoke to me, and I am quite approachable. Shame on you for bearing false witness.
Make of it what you wish, but myself, Haller, Amos Ferrel and Ian Huxley really do have genuine concerns about David Nathan’s comments, it is not just a personal squabble among ministers.
Kawaii insults the notion by sneering that the four of us have led Jacob as an “adopted thinker” in some kind of a ridiculous “Echo Chamber”.
He owes us all an apology as does everybody who has posted his clever, snide and corrosive videos.
I think you all owe me an apology and a retraction, even a public rebuttal of the slanders of me you have promoted.
Respectfully yours- Pas bill please share with Frank and with Kawaii
Mike Rogers Response
Sat 4/13/2019 7:51 AM
Bill,
As Jude wrote, he intended to write about our common salvation but instead exhorted believers to earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. It would be so nice if we could all just gather together and enjoy the salvation given us by our Lord Jesus, wouldn’t it? But we cannot afford the luxury, as in the days of the Apostles we still must contend with evil men who’s only purpose is to elevate themselves above others and crush any who will not surrender to their will and purpose.
You appear to be concerned more about what people say about you than those who have been shipwrecked by Jacob Prasch. Just this past week someone plastered my name on their blog site saying things that were just untrue. I’m not concerned. What does my name matter in the service of Jesus Christ? I’m not going to acknowledge the individual as I have enough discernment to know it’s a bait and switch. Its what they want. I’m only concerned with what the Lord has tasked me to do, contend for the faith and fight for those who have been wronged by Jacob Prasch and men like him.
I haven’t seen you take a definitive stand against Jacob’s campaign to destroy David Nathan, the Menelaws or the countless others Prasch has destroyed. Who will minister to them, who will help them recover? I’ve seen you teeter on the fence, you did post one statement in defense of the Menelaw’s but then retracted it, as you said because your blog is not people magazine. Not exactly sure why you would use that analogy when the letter was defending the Menelaws as your friends, just as you say Jacob Prasch is.
James wrote, “My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.”
Church leadership is judged with a higher standard then those who follow, 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 give great attention to details, but James reminds that those in leadership will be held accountable for exemplifying Jesus Christ in their spirit and behavior, as well as their words and deeds. You should know better being in the ministry for 40 years. You should have clearer discernment. It should be easy for you to see Jacob for the brute he is, you should be able to see his destructive behavior. Yet you and many others sat silently by and watched even and especially when it violated Scripture. You do get some credit for initially speaking out about Prasch’s horrible treatment and behavior. Still at the end of it all was David Nathan continually asking for reconciliation, open to correction and desiring a meeting to make things right EVERY time he spoke, and he also corrected his error and still was asking for reconciliation and it was meant by you and others again with silence[ except for the videos you all were a part of to talk yet again about your “concerns” of what he had already repented of. You remain deaf to these facts even today as in the very email you sent to me, you still don’t acknowledge his repentance and correction of his error.
David Nathan in his brokenness, humility and earnest desire to reconcile has set the bar high, a standard that you nor anyone else mentioned here has even begun to meet and all he did was follow Scripture in trying to resolve all of this. This speaks volumes and many have realized the true error now is that of Jacob Prasch”s and all who support him.
I know what is required in ministry, both pastoral and otherwise, but I will never sit idle and silent and watch a man tear God’s sheep apart. If one is to be honest, Jacob doesn’t teach truth in many areas of his doctrine. He is misogynistic, hateful, and cruel. If he would have simply met with David Nathan privately over his doctrinal differences, everything that has happened since would have never been. But he refused! Another biblical error on his part. And like most sects, the people are more loyal to the leader then to Jesus Christ and His Word. Sadly, he acts similar to the cults he came out of.
I put no man on a pedestal, my loyalty is and will always be with Jesus Christ, His Word, and with those who align with Him, with the hurting, and those abused by “Church Leadership.”
For the record, I haven’t personally attacked you, I’ve approved videos and comments which have included you, but the greater focus was Jacob Prasch. I as well as many others have and will continue to expose him. People will no longer sit by and allow him to continue his destructive behavior defaming the Name of Jesus Christ.
If you want to clear your name then stand up and fight for those wounded by Prasch, be the pastor they need. Serving Jesus Christ comes with a cost, sometimes it cost us everything, our friendships, family, properties, even our own identities. We all must weigh the cost and the value of what we do and what we don’t do? As James wrote, we all stumble in many things, all we can do is own it and continue to earnestly contend for the faith. Preachers today want the recognition, the popularity, the money, and the power, but they never want to pay the cost for following Christ.
Also, your request that comments about you that you don’t approve of be “nixed “and that I should contact Frank Rogers and tbcKawaii for you and that you are owed an apology I will have to respectfully decline. At least until I see a biblical response publicly on behalf of David Nathan, the Menelaws, and many others wounded by Prasch. At that time I will be willing to amend comments in your defense. As I said, the greater focus is Jacob Prasch.
Below is a list of other issues from not only your email but the comments you’ve made on closingstages blog, which will also be made public.
1. You state in the email you sent that you’ve “been a friend of Jacob Prasch’s until recently” and then in a comment on our blog on the same day you say “although I admit to being a friend of Jacobs (in spite of his flaws)”
So which is it Bill? Are you or aren’t you friends with Jacob? You see the problem here? You are still speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Let’s not forget that this whole issue involves much more than just character flaws, this is sin and error.
3.“I challenge you to show me one instance of me abusing David Nathan in any way shape or form.” And “I have been operating out of sincere doctrinal concerns, and not as a mere flunky of Jacob Prasch’s” And “Make of it what you wish, but myself, Haller, Amos Ferrel and Ian Huxley really do have genuine concerns about David Nathan’s comments, it is not just a personal squabble among ministers.”
Your abuse and what you call “sincere doctrinal concerns “ amounted to open letters on your blog with no contact with David Nathan. You continued, as you still do, to regurgitate your “doctrinal concerns” as if David Nathan has never publicly reached out, asked for a meeting after meeting, and for reconciliation and was certainly open to correction. He admitted his error and corrected it. Yet you have never acknowledged that nor has Prasch, Haller, Ferrel or Huxley. But you ALL were willing to go on video to reinforce ALL of your “doctrinal concerns” that he has publicly admitted and corrected. He was meant with silence from you ALL, that’s abuse, that’s violating the scriptures, especially to continue to reiterate your “concerns” even in this email. Your intentional failure to meet with a man that is willing and pleading for reconciliation lays at all of your feet. The abuse lingers still as you have yet to reach out to him but still speak of an error he has corrected and repented of. Seems like there’s just some things you’re not letting go of here Bill.
4. You also stated “I have forty years of ministry integrity”
Well between you, Haller, Ferrel, Huxley and Prasch there may be among you all a couple of hundred combined years of what you call “ministry integrity” yet not one of you could figure out how to do the right thing and meet with a brother? This remains to be answered.
It is my sincere hope and prayer that we all perhaps have learned to walk a little more circumspectly when it comes to truly adhering to God’s Word allowing it to change our hearts.
In Christ,
Mike Rogers
Also note that there were several comments that Bill made to Treena Gisborns article “Bill Randles continued vilification of David Nathan!
