GOOD FIGHT MINISTRIES: POST-TRIB RAPTURE CONFUSION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki9EMQtEcPg
Good Fight Ministries - Not Appointed To Wrath

I haven't tackled the problems associated with the post-trib rapture view in any depth previously. I am in total agreement with Good Fight Ministries that the pre-trib view is highly speculative and dangerous. Pre-trib teachings expose believers to spiritual deception and puts them at serious risk of apostasy - as such pre-trib should be vigorously refuted. (Matthew 24:10). I do not consider that post-trib teaching has anything like the same level of error as pre-trib. However, the difficulties associated with this view are confusing to say the least! (1 Corinthians 14:33). I find it reasonable that savvy pretribulationists and others are unable to accept the post-trib position due to its various scriptural inconsistencies. For the sake of clarity, it must surely be necessary to iron out the difficulties associated with the post-trib view and to rightly divide the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15).

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not  grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

Now (δέ) concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3). 

The chapter division between 1 Thessalonians 4 and 5 is is extremely unhelpful. It is unfortunate that this inappropriate break in the text often adds to the confusion regarding the timing of the rapture. In 1 Thessalonians 5:1, Paul makes the transition from the rapture to the day of the Lord (δέ = but, and, now, (a connective or adversative particle). {1} In other words, the times and seasons that Paul refers to are relevant to the preceding verses regarding those who are caught up (the rapture), but they are also relevant to the day of the Lord (the wrath). It appears that the post-trib camp merge both these events together into a 24 hour single day, but this proposition is inconsistent with the scriptures. 

Joe Schimmel: "The same coming where Jesus comes to destroy the wicked, and he comes like a thief,  (Jesus put that at the end of the tribulation Matthew 24)..  it is the same day he comes upon the wicked, it is the same day he comes to us.."   

Joe is quite hard to follow, but as far as I understand it, he is saying that the rapture happens on the same day as the wrath is poured out upon the wicked, after the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:30-31). The problem with this view is that Matthew 24 does not state that the wrath is initiated quite yet. After the great tribulation is cut short, the cosmic disturbances and the rapture precede the day of the Lord (the wrath of God). The wrath becomes imminent after the seventh seal is broken, before the trumpet judgements are initiated. (Revelation 8:1-2). 

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31).

Further evidence that the rapture takes place before the day of the Lord is found in Revelation 7:9-17.  "the great multitude from every nation " appear in heaven in resurrection bodies before the seventh seal is broken. “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. (Revelation 7:14 cf. Matthew 24:29, 31).

Joe goes on to quote:
..and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. (2 Thessalonians 1:7-8).

Paul refers to the Thessalonian church and to himself in the present tense, who are afflicted (θλιβομενοις verb - present passive participle). Clearly, departed saints are not "afflicted" after they go to be with the Lord, and yet there is a real sense that the martyrs in particular are waiting for justice:

They (the departed martyrs) cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

In that sense, the martyrs will get "relief " when the Lord executes his vengeance.

In any event, it is difficult to explain "the coming of the Lord with his saints", if the rapture takes place at the same time as a supposed literal 24 hour day of the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 3:13). 

Prewrath and post-trib differ chronologically. According to the scriptures, the rapture precedes the day of the Lord, which makes it a prewrath event. Furthermore, the post-trib claim that this "day" is a literal 24 hour period cannot be correct. Note: days (plural) describes the seventh trumpet call: ..but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets. (Revelation 10:7). Furthermore, the scriptures demonstrate that the day of the Lord is at least longer than a five month period of time. (Revelation 9:5). Isaiah 34:8; 61:2 and 63:4 may indicate a year long "day of vengeance" (Edom being symbolic of God's final judgement against the nations. [Isaiah 34:4]). 

1. https://biblehub.com/greek/1161.htm

Further Links:

End Times Seminar Session 4 - The Day of the Lord
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Ynrb2qugA&list=PLDS6L4dOrrh2b31rfWbTduK8Dv7LlQNlk&index=5&t=2s
Articles for Posttribulationism to Consider
https://www.alankurschner.com/2017/08/10/articles-for-posttribulationism-to-consider/
Good Fight Ministries Skewed Post-Trib Rapture View
https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2020/04/good-fight-ministries-skewed-post-trib.html

ALPHA COURSE CONCERNS

The Roots Of The Alpha Course

Alpha began at Holy Trinity Brompton Church (CofE)) in London in 1977. In 1990 Nicky Gumbel, then a curate at HTB, adapted the course in order to facilitate people outside the church who were interested in exploring the Christian faith. It is claimed that millions of people have attended Alpha since 1993. The course now runs in every part of the "global church", including the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church and all mainline Protestant denominations. {1}   

Gumbel is an out and out Romanist.

Alpha's ecumenical slant should be a huge red flag for supposed "bible believing" church leaders who should know better. Roman Catholicism is based on works salvation and is an abominable perversion of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Many denominations have now apostatised from the true gospel and are embracing the ungodly ecumenical agenda. (2 Corinthians 11:4).

Alpha's ambiguity is evidence of doctrinal weakness. 

By its own admission, Alpha is designed to present the essentials of Christian faith that all denominations agree on. {1} This strategy necessitates evading the clear gospel of Jesus Christ (Colossians 4:4). In effect Alpha's ambiguity opens the door to further ambiguity and error down the line.

"Alpha refers to salvation, the cross, the death of Christ, etc., in such a general way that false doctrine is not refuted. It says salvation is by grace, for instance, but it does not say that salvation is by grace ALONE by faith ALONE through the blood of Christ ALONE without works or sacraments. It refers to the Bible as God’s Word in a general sense, but it does not explain that the Bible is truly God’s inerrant, infallible, supernatural Word that must be reverenced and obeyed in every detail, that the Bible ALONE is the authority for faith and practice. It refers to Christ’s death on the cross, but does not plainly explain the vicarious atonement that was required for man’s salvation. It refers to man’s need, but it does not describe man as a totally depraved nature sinner. If Alpha were that specific, it is certain it would not be ecumenically popular in this apostate hour." {2} 

RCDOW: "It (Alpha) is wholly compatible with Catholic teaching, but it does not address specific Catholic teachings and ecclesiology." {3} 

The above statement is very telling! In order to be "compatible with Catholic teaching", Alpha by its very nature must involve doctrinal modus vivendi. RC historic opposition to faith alone in Jesus Christ still stands:

THE COUNCIL OF TRENT CANON XII -"If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema." {4}

The Holy Spirit Weekend

The controversial "Holy Spirit weekend" is the sine qua non of Alpha. Both Sandy Millar, the previous vicar of HTB, and Nicky Gumbel, personally experienced various dubious manifestations introduced by John Wimber during the 1980s, the prequel to the so called "Toronto Blessing". Holy Trinity Brompton's heavy promotion of Toronto was the catalyst that caused Alpha's popularity to explode during the 1990s.

Gumbel: “I believe it is no coincidence that the present movement of the Holy Spirit has come at the same time as the explosion of the Alpha Courses. I think the two go together.” {5}

The Holy Spirit weekend initiates spiritually naïve participants into the dangerous experience known in charismatic circles as the "transferable anointing". Alarmingly, without a comprehensive understanding of the gospel, this "anointing" leaves attendees vulnerable to "another spirit". (2 Corinthians 11:4,14; Matthew 13:19). Alpha "converts" have no competency to test the spirits as the scriptures instruct, as such they are an easy target for deceivers. (1 John 4:1). The method typically employed by Alpha is to infect their victims with this counterfeit spirit by the laying on of hands. The resulting occult manifestations, such as falling backwards, violent jerking, uncontrollable laughter, bodily contortions, "drunkenness" etc. is unbiblical and dangerous. (Acts 8:17). This error has spread like gangrene from Toronto and Holy Trinity Brompton. (2 Timothy 2:17). Toronto and its demonic manifestations have now been thoroughly exposed as counterfeit. (See Further Links)

Rob Thomas: "Using the classic cult technique of taking people out of their normal routine and surroundings, and placing them into a new and super-charged environment of intense expectation of Signs & Wonders, the candidates are ripe to receive WHATEVER comes their way! They are urged to be open to being "slain in the spirit" and experiencing strange physical sensations like shaking and heat. In short, persons are being taught and encouraged to receive a most UNHOLY type of spirit with attendant fleshly manifestations known in Eastern occultism as KUNDALINI.." {6}

ShipofFools: "My own parish had the unfortunate experience once of people walking out of the weekend because they felt duped - there were 'plants' as they took it, people sprinkled about the gathering whose job it would be to lay hands on people and pray for them to receive the Holy Spirit." {7}

Gumbel's Faulty Theology

Gumbel describes the Holy Spirit as a "Compelling Spirit". {8}
This description is very misleading. The Holy Spirit convicts, He never compels! (John 16:8).

..for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control. (2 Timothy 1:7)
..and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. (1 Corinthians 14:32).
God is not a God of disorder...1 Corinthians 14:33).

Gumbel on the gift of tongues: "You don't need to speak in tongues. It is not the most important gift. But tongues is a beginner's gift, and Alpha is a beginner's course in Christianity, so it would be wonderful if you tried.. They (tongues) take time to develop. Most of us start with a very limited vocabulary. It gradually develops. Tongues is like that. Don’t give up." {9}

Gumbel's description of the gift of tongues is inaccurate.

On the Day of Pentecost, no one had to "try" to speak in tongues; it was not something they needed to "learn" or "practice".

..they were all together in one place. (probably the hundred and twenty) (Acts 1:2,15).

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2:1-4).

Tongues is described by the Apostle Paul as a lesser gift than prophecy. (1 Corinthians 14:5; 12:28). Tongues are not a "beginners gift". Gumbel is full of these inconsistencies.

Before anyone accuses me of being a cessationist, I am not. I have personally received insights and revelations from the Lord, and I claim to have the gift of "discerning of spirits". (1 Corinthians 12:10). How ironic that "discerning of spirits", the most needed gift in these perilous times, is rejected by compromised churches when it disagrees with their ecumenical agenda. (2 Timothy 3:1)

Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

ALPHA LEICESTER

https://www.facebook.com/pg/TLCBirstall/posts/

Below are some local churches in Leicester currently running Alpha. I have critiqued these churches previously due to their association with the heretical New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). (Jude 1:11).

Trinity Life Church Leicester https://www.facebook.com/pg/TLCBirstall/posts/
Kings Church Leicester https://www.kingschurchleicester.org/alpha/
All Nations Church Leicester https://www.ancl.co.uk/alpha/
Holy Trinity Church Leicester https://holytrinityleicester.org/who-we-are/why-jesus
St John's Church Clarendon Park https://www.sjbchurch.co.uk/alpha

1. https://www.alpha.org/nicky-gumbel/
2. https://kimolsen.net/2011/07/14/dangers-of-the-alpha-course/
3. https://rcdow.org.uk/att/files/faith/aff/alpha.pdf
4. http://www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch6.htm
5. Renewal magazine, May 1995, p15.
6. http://watchman4wales.blogspot.com/2013/
7. http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=023083
8. https://www.entegra.co.uk/alpha/Talk%206%20-¡%20How%20Does%20God%20Guide%20Us_Prison%20Script_1215.pdf..
9. Questions of Life, p147.

FURTHER LINKS

https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=20704
http://www.banner.org.uk/misc/alpha.html
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/alpha.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/Alpha-Course.html
https://www.alpha.org/about/
http://www.spiritoferror.org/?s=new+apostolic+reformationhttps://
bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/search/label/Trinity%20Life%20Church%20Leicesterhttps://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/search/label/Holy%20Trinity%20Church

GOOD FIGHT MINISTRIES - THE POST-TRIB RAPTURE

This post is not written with the intention of exposing Joe Schimmel as a false teacher, but rather to question his understanding regarding the timing of the rapture.

The timing of the rapture has been a hot topic for some years and the controversy continues to rage on. Good Fight's DVD Left Behind or Led Astray successfully refuted the pre-trib error, and yet still many Christians remain divided and confused over the issue.

As much as I concur with Good Fight Ministries teaching in many respects, there are some questions about the post-tribulation rapture that I am unable to resolve.


In Good Fight Ministries recent podcast above, Joe Schimmel states that believers will be resurrected on "the last day", i.e. the literal last day of the current age. (20 minute mark) I believe that this is erroneous. The phrase "the last day" (τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ) occurs seven times in the New Testament and is peculiar to the Gospel of John.
(John 6:39,40,44,54;11:24;12:48).

A literal interpretation of the scriptures should always be taken unless the context indicates otherwise. In this instance the Apostle John does not expand on the phrase "the last day", and I have not found a commentary that really addresses the subject. Eschatologically "the last day" finds it equivalence in "the day of wrath" aka "that day", "the day of the Lord" etc. as found in a number of passages. (e.g. Joel 2:3; Acts 2:17-21; Isaiah 2:12; Amos 5:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:2). More specifically the book of Revelation identifies the exact time when this "day" begins.. for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” (Revelation 6:17). The day of wrath commences when the seventh seal is opened, following the cessation of the great tribulation and the cosmic disturbances of the sixth seal. (Revelation 6:12-17). This "day" cannot be a literal twenty four hour period for obvious reasons. (Revelation 9:5,10; Revelation 10:7). ..but that in the days (plural) of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets. (Revelation 10:7). 

In Revelation 7, the rapture appears to have taken place before the wrath of God is poured out i.e. before the trumpet judgements begin in Revelation 8.

After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”

Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:9-14)

White robes are indicative of the marriage supper:

Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out,

“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;
it was granted her to clothe herself
with fine linen, bright and pure”—

for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” (Revelation 19:6-9).

Although prewrath and post-trib do have elements in common, there are weaknesses in the post-trib view that are irreconcilable with the scriptures. These weaknesses give ammunition to those who attempt to justify the deceptive pre-trib view. At the same time, the obvious deficiencies of the post-trib view do nothing to convince those who would otherwise accept a prewrath rapture.

Alan Kurschner (Eschatos Ministries) has summarised some of the inconsistencies found in the post-trib position as follows:

The resurrection takes place in Revelation 20
The second coming begins in Revelation 19
The second coming begins when Jesus physically comes to earth
The seals, trumpets, bowls occur concurrently
The rapture happens at the seventh trumpet
Paul’s “last trump” refers to the seventh trumpet in the book of Revelation
The great tribulation is 3 1/2 years long
The day of the Lord is a literal 24-hour day

After the rapture, God’s people immediately descend to earth {1}

It would be helpful to get some response from GFM on these questions?

1. https://www.alankurschner.com/2015/10/10/replies-to-the-post-tribulational-rapture-view/

ANDY WOODS SUGAR LAND BIBLE CHURCH: THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE

Andy Woods Sugar Land Bible Church
7 Reasons To Trust The Pre-trib Rapture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZBoSaG4-KY

In this video, Andy Woods, summarises various rapture views before moving on to his alleged seven reasons to trust the pre-trib rapture.

Andy Woods' argument: "..because the pre-trib rapture is constantly attacked is proof that it is true", is a logical fallacy. In that case, we might as well dismiss all strong opposition to false teaching. (Acts 20:28-30, Ephesians 5:11; 1 Timothy 1:3; Titus 1:13-14; 3:10).

Andy Woods' disparaging remarks about the prewrath rapture view are astonishing considering the murky history of the pre-trib theory. Pre-trib believers should acquaint themselves with certain embarrassing pre-trib facts before dismissing other views out of hand. Apart from lacking one single verse of scripture to verify it, the pre-trib rapture was provably unknown prior to the mid 1800s when cult leader and heretic John Nelson Darby brought it into focus. During the 20th century, the pre-trib theory was widely promoted by Cyrus Scofield via the Scofield Reference Bible. Scofield was a particularly unwholesome character, leaving in his trail a catalogue of misdemeanours and deceptions after his "conversion" to Christianity.

Below is an excerpt from the Topeka newspaper The Daily Capital dated 27th August 1881:

"Cyrus I. Schofield, formerly of Kansas, late lawyer, politician and shyster generally, has come to the surface again, and promises once more to gather around himself that halo of notoriety that has made him so prominent in the past.

The last personal knowledge that Kansans have had of this peer among scalawags, was when about four years ago, after a series of forgeries and confidence games he left the state and a destitute family and took refuge in Canada.

For a time he kept undercover, nothing being heard of him until within the past two years when he turned up in St. Louis, where he had a wealthy widowed sister living who has generally come to the front and squared up Cyrus’ little follies and foibles by paying good round sums of money.

Within the past year, however, Cyrus committed a series of St. Louis forgeries that could not be settled so easily, and the erratic young gentleman was compelled to linger in the St. Louis jail for a period of six months.

Among the many malicious acts that characterized his career, was one peculiarly atrocious, that has come under our personal notice. Shortly after he left Kansas, leaving his wife and two children dependent upon the bounty of his wife’s mother, he wrote his wife that he could invest some $1,300 of her mother’s money, all she had, in a manner that would return big interest.

After some correspondence he forwarded them a mortgage, signed and executed by one Chas. Best, purporting to convey valuable property in St. Louis. Upon this, the money was sent to him. Afterwards the mortgages were found to be base forgeries, no such person as Charles Best being in existence, and the property conveyed in the mortgage fictitious..” {1}

In more recent times, the pre-trib rapture has been promoted by Tim LaHaye and other cronies of false messiah Sun Myung Moon (Moonies). (See Further Links).

Thomas Ice gave prewrath the derisory label "three quarters rapture" in his flawed analysis of 2009. {2} In 2004, Ice scandalously distorted the Greek noun apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as a "spacial departure" in a desperate attempt to make it fit the pre-trib rapture. However Ice was unable to provide evidence to back up his interpretation during a debate with Alan Kurschner in 2015. {3}
Also exposed by Alan Kurschner ~ Andy Woods' substandard research into apostasia. {4}

Andy Woods is one of many teachers that make the false assertion that God's wrath occurs during the entire 70th week of Daniel. The scriptures make a distinction between "birth pains" and "the day of wrath", i.e. the undiluted cup of His wrath. (Matthew 24:8 -9; Revelation 14:10). Technically, "the day of wrath" is a particular series of events that become imminent following the cosmic disturbances of Revelation 6:12-17. ..for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand? (Revelation 6:17 cf. Acts 2:20; Matthew 24:29. The phrase “the day of the Lord” also refers to this period of time and is often referred to by the OT prophets, e.g. Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5).

Ellicott: "Against the day of wrath.—Strictly, in the day of wrath—i.e., wrath to be outpoured upon the day of wrath. “The great and terrible day of the Lord” is a conception running through all the prophetic writings. (Comp. also, in the New Testament, Luke 17:30; Acts 2:20; 1Corinthians 1:8; 1Corinthians 5:5; 2Corinthians 1:14; 1Thessalonians 5:2; 1Thessalonians 5:4; 2Thessalonians 2:2; 2Peter 3:10; 2Peter 3:12; Revelation 6:17; Revelation 16:14.)" {5}

Another fallacy is the argument that because "the church" is absent from Revelation 4–21, the rapture must occur prior to the 70th week of Daniel. Andy Woods calls this "the concept of the missing church". This is an astonishing assumption considering the various references to believers in these chapters. God's focus does come upon Israel during the 70th week. (Daniel 9:24). However, there is no evidence to suggest that the church is absent during that time.

In the New Testament, the word church (ekklēsia) applies to local congregations in many instances. (e.g. Matthew 18:17; Acts 8:1). The apostle Paul's letters are addressed to individual named churches. Acts 9:31 refers to "churches" (plural) in named geographic areas. Similarly, specific named churches (plural) are addressed at the beginning of the book of Revelation. (Revelation 1:11). Where the church is referred to in general terms, it often signifies the entire body of Christ, past, present and future. (Ephesians 3:21; 5:23,32; Revelation 22:16).

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” (Revelation 22:16).

It is not common to find ekklēsia applied to the whole body of Christian believers in the New Testament. The absence of ekklēsia in Revelation chapters 4-21 is therefore consistent with the New Testament use of the term.

Revelation chapters 4-22 refers to believers in generic terms i.e. the churches are not broken down into their constituent parts as in Revelation chapters 1-3. The suggestion that "saints" or "bond servants" does not refer to "the church" in the book of Revelation is shamelessly dishonest. Numerous passages in the New Testament use both these expressions to define faithful members of the true church. Note: "bond servant", as found in the introductions to Romans, Philippians, Titus, James, and 2 Peter, applies to faithful believers cf. Philippians 2:7. Similarly in the book of Revelation, faithful believers are identified as "saints" i.e. they are ..those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (Revelation 14:12 cf. Colossians 1:2; Ephesians 1:1). The cost of their loyalty to Christ will be martyrdom in many cases. (Revelation 17:6 cf. Revelation 13:10).

In a worldly sense "the church" describes the whole of Christendom, whereas the whole of Christendom does not consist of faithful believers. During the great tribulation, the apostate church will doubtless be falsely known as "the church", since the religion of the Antichrist will be a form of counterfeit/perverted Christianity. Furthermore, it is likely that the true churches will be in disarray during the great tribulation due to the persecution of the Antichrist and the betrayal of apostate believers. (Matthew 24:10). In our own time we see this scenario developing with the decline of previously sound biblical churches and the rise of ecumenism.

Israel and the Church

According to Andy Woods the entire purpose of the "seven year tribulation" is to shatter the holy people i.e. Israel. (Jeremiah 30:7; Daniel 9:24). He partially quotes Daniel 9:24:

“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city.. 

Incredibly, he fails to quote the remainder of Daniel 9:24: ..to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness.

Furthermore, the "birth pains" described by Jesus occur globally (all nations/various places). (Matthew 24:5-8). Specific tribulation, in the shape of the Antichrist's persecution, comes upon Israel at the mid point of the "week". This three and a half year period is in fact the great tribulation referred to by Jesus Christ. (Matthew 24:21). Andy Woods quotes Daniel 12:7, a pivotal verse that confirms the 3.5 year time frame i.e. time, times, and half a time.

And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished. (Daniel 12:7).

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is a critical passage confirming that two events must occur before the Parousia i.e .the second coming of Jesus Christ and the rapture:

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together (episunagōgēs) to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).

The coming of our Lord Jesus and the rapture (episunagōgēs) are closely related in 2 Thessalonians 2:1, clearly indicating a late rapture. ..that day, the day of the Lord i.e. the wrath of God, will not occur until after the mid point of the "week" when the Antichrist is "revealed". Also note Paul's warning "Let no one deceive you in any way" concerning "that day".

Andy Woods poses the question: "Why would the church be here, we have no need of that? We are already in faith. We have already acknowledged Jesus, Israel is yet to do that.." (7:00 mark) This is to limit the church to "us".

My Question: Does Jesus retrieve an incomplete bride at the rapture?

In his Jewish marriage analogy below, Andy Woods teaches that Jesus returns at the beginning of the seventieth week of Daniel to retrieve his bride, the church. However, his analogy fails because the bride is incomplete at that point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYaIKKQUpOg  

The scriptures demonstrate that the cosmic disturbances of Revelation 6:12-14 mark the end of the great tribulation, and that the church appears complete and in heaven before the onset of the day of the Lord.

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb...
Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”
“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”
So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:9-14). 

During the day of the Lord, people do not repent. (Revelation 9:20-21; 16:9-11). It is reasonable to conclude from these events that the rapture occurs at some point between the sixth and seventh seal of Revelation.

Jesus addresses His disciples i.e. the church, and warns them that they will enter the great tribulation:

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24: 9-14,21).

Revelation 12:17 identifies "the rest of her offspring" as Christians:

And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea. (Revelation 12:13-17).

Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. If anyone has an ear, let him hear: (Revelation 13:7-9).

Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!” (Revelation 14:12-13).

There is no evidence to suggest a massive revival during the great tribulation as some teach. Nevertheless there are opportunities to repent and potential conversions:

And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. (Revelation 11:13).

Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.” (Revelation 14:6-7).

And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” (Revelation 14:9-11). 

Once Again, Andy Woods quotes half a verse in a miserable attempt to prove that that church are in heaven during the great tribulation! He teaches that the seven lampstands i.e. the seven churches in Revelation 1:20, are the seven lamps burning before God in Revelation 4:5. (12:00 mark). He fails to quote the second half of Revelation 4:5, which states unequivocally that the seven lamps in Revelation 4:5 are in fact the seven spirits of God:

From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God, (Revelation 4:5).

Some view the various rapture differences as an in-house debate lacking real importance. I differ with that analysis due to the severe warnings given in the scriptures, and in particular, the book of Revelation. Why is it that so many scriptural evidences for the church's presence on earth during the great tribulation are blatantly mistaught and disregarded? Those teaching the pre-trib rapture put many believers at serious risk of falling away during the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:10-11). They compound their error when they teach pre-trib in tandem with "eternal security". (2 Timothy 4:3). He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’ (Revelation 2:11).

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19).

1. http://poweredbychrist.homestead.com/files/cyrus/scofield.htm
2. https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1042&context=pretrib_arch
3. https://www.alankurschner.com/2018/04/12/the-transcript-of-my-2015-debate-with-taomas-ice-is-now-available/
4. https://www.alankurschner.com/2017/12/02/a-reply-to-andy-woods-on-apostasia-is-the-rapture-ep-104/
5. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ellicott/romans/2.htm

Further Links:

Darby's Deadly Doctrine
http://freestockphotos.com/COMING1/DarbysInvention.htm
CI Scofield's Hidden Side by Dave MacPherson
https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2017/07/ci-scofields-hidden-side-by-dave.html
The Seven Year Pre-tribulation Rapture Deception: Chuck Missler And The Berean Call
https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-seven-year-pre-tribulation-rapture.html
Chuck Missler and Friends - Council For National Policy
https://youtu.be/IQ1WQQv1e3o
A Reply to Andy Woods on ‘APOSTASIA Is the Rapture’
https://www.alankurschner.com/2017/12/02/a-reply-to-andy-woods-on-apostasia-is-the-rapture-ep-104
God has worked with Israel and the church at the same time in the past..
https://www.alankurschner.com/2017/06/26/god-has-worked-with-israel-and-the-church-at-the-same-time-in-the-past/
Does the Absence of the Word ‘Church’ (Ekklēsia) in Revelation 4–21 Support a Pretribulation Rapture?
https://www.alankurschner.com/2017/01/20/does-the-absence-of-the-word-church-ekklesia-in-revelation-4-21-support-a-pretribulation-rapture-ep-75/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
The Biblical Defense for the Prewrath Rapture of the Church v=QL5hQLCYPXk&list=PLaVrnyfOkO2GaQr1amD55vigrWuRivHuP&index=2&t=0s

ANDY WOODS SUGAR LAND BIBLE CHURCH - SECURE IN CHRIST

Andy Woods
Sugar Land Bible Church
Secure In Christ ~ Revelation 3:5-6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbOrhJD6qnM

Andy Woods is a staunch pre-tribulation rapture "eternal security" teacher. His repeated claim, based primarily on Revelation 3:5-6, that overcomer (νικῶν) is by definition a synonym for a Christian regardless of conduct is extremely problematic for a number of reasons. For the sake of consistency, the bible quotations in this post are taken from the New American Standard Version as per Andy Woods' Sermon.

'He who overcomes (νικῶν) will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ (Revelation 3:5-6).

Andy Woods': "'He who overcomes' is a positional fact already made about the believer based on what Jesus Christ has already done for the believer, rather than what the believer does for himself." (17:15 mark). 

This statement is true only in so far as it applies to the believer in the present tense. The assertion that the believer is a guaranteed overcomer, both now and in the future, violates the grammar. The Greek verb νικῶν (overcomes) is a present active participle, i.e. it describes an action which is taking place now. The present active participle refers to an action that is currently taking place or which takes place repeatedly, but not indefinitely. For Andy Woods to be correct, νικῶν would have to be written in the perfect tense (a past action with an ongoing effect) e.g. but take courage; I (emphatic) have overcome (νενίκηκα / perfect active indicative) the world." (John 16:33).

There is a distinction between the believer who overcomes in a present ongoing sense, and Jesus Christ who has overcome (aorist). The scriptures put the onus on the believer to progressively "overcome", not in his/her own strength in the flesh, but by the power of the Holy Spirit.

'He who overcomes (νικῶν), I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame (ἐνίκησα) and sat down with My Father on His throne. (Revelation 3:21).

νικῶν = present active participle. 
ἐνίκησα = verb aorist active indicative - first person singular.

and one of the elders said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome (ἐνίκησεν) so as to open the book and its seven seals." (Revelation 5:5).

ἐνίκησεν = verb - aorist active indicative - third person singular.

Works Salvation?

Andy Woods: "He who overcomes (νικῶν ) - that means I have got to do something." 

For Andy Woods, conditional salvation is an abhorrent doctrine, because, in his terms, it is dependent upon works. In fact the opposite is true. What many fail to appreciate (apparently), is that the believer who abides in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit obliterates the charge of "works salvation". Those who abide in Christ will necessarily produce evidence of their faith. (James 2:20).

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. (John 15:4-6 cf. John 6:56).

Abide in Me, and I in you.. The imperative is followed by the promise i.e. the latter depends upon the former. In other words, without abiding in Christ the promise cannot be gained.

Jesus' past victory does have continuous ongoing effect, with the proviso that it applies to those believers who endure in the faith and stand firm to the end. (Matthew 10:22; Colossians 1:22-23).

But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39) The KJV has draw back unto perdition (εἰς ἀπώλειαν). In other words, those who shrink back experience eternal destruction!

Andy Woods' examples from 1 John 4 and 5:

You are from God, little children, and have overcome (νενικήκατε) them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. (1 John 4:4).

In this instance νενικήκατε is in the perfect tense. However, in context, the remainder of 1 John 4 expresses the necessity of believers fulfilling certain conditions. (Psalm 119:160).

God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment;

..If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also. (1 John 4:16b-21).

For whatever is born of God overcomes (νικῶν) the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is the one who overcomes (νικῶν) the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? (1 John 5:4-5).

Andy Woods' example from Romans 8:37: (24:00 mark)

But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer (υπερνικωμεν) through Him who loved us. Romans 8:37).

υπερνικωμεν verb - present active indicative.

In a very serious sense, Andy Woods' repeated misapplication of the simple present tense has the devastating result of altering the scriptures. (Revelation 22:18-19; Deuteronomy 4:2; Proverbs 30:6).

Andy Woods: "The believer compared to the unbeliever is called an overcomer.. It doesn't matter what is going on in your personal life.. you are already an overcomer." (26:00 mark) "No amount of backsliding, no amount of disobedience can cancel who you are in Christ Jesus." (33:00 mark) I regard Andy Wood's false optimism as highly irresponsible considering that the scriptures prophesy the terrible reality of coming apostasy:

At that time many will fall away.. (Matthew 24:10).

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.. (1 Timothy 4:1 cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 1 Timothy 4:16; Romans 2: 6-8). 

Andy Woods' example from Revelation 21:6-8:

Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. “He who overcomes (νικῶν) will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. (Revelation 21:6-7).

Revelation 21:6-7 applies to specific individuals i.e. the one who thirsts.. He who overcomes.

'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Revelation 3:5).

Revelation 3:5 is not an imperative (a command), it is a conditional promise. It describes Christians. but not necessarily all Christians, since it is not inevitable that all Christians will overcome. (Matthew 24:10 cf. Matthew 11:6; Matthew 13:21, 57).

If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; (2 Timothy 2:12).

Vincent's Word Studies: "The meaning of the last clause is, will not acknowledge us as his own. Comp. Luke 9:26; Matthew 10:33." {1}

God is not some ogre willing Christians to fail, quite the opposite.. hence the repeated exhortations to stand firm and to overcome. (2 Peter 3:9; Romans 2:4; Psalm 46:1). Sin is inevitable. (1 John 1:8-10). However, it is God's will that we confess our sins and work through our various issues, as in the case of Euodia and Syntyche:

I urge Euodia and I urge Syntyche to live in harmony in the Lord. Indeed, true companion, I ask you also to help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, together with Clement also and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life. (Philippians 4:2-3 cf. 1 John 1:9). 

It is worth noting that the early Church Fathers clearly taught that Christians must continue in the faith in order to be saved. {2}

..and one of the elders said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals." (Revelation 5:5).

The overcomer is Jesus Christ. All the reference to Jesus Christ as the overcomer are in the perfect tense, but in the case of believers it is a conditional promise in the present tense:

John 16:33... I have overcome the world. (perfect tense)
1 John 4:4 and have overcome them.. (perfect tense)

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome (ἡττῶνται), the last state has become worse for them than the first. (2 Peter 2:20).

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6).

It was very remiss of Andy Woods not to teach Revelation 3:5 in context with the preceding verse. He completely omits the link "thus" (in this way, in like manner) between the few who are worthy in Sardis (Revelation 3:4) and He who overcomes. (Revelation 3:5).

‘But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ (Revelation 3:4-6 cf. Matthew 10:38).

Meyer on Revelation 3:5: "An express pointing backward to what precedes is made by the οὕτως, which makes the promise here bestowed upon the victor (οὕτ. περιβ. ἐν. ἱμ. λευκ.)[1382] appear to coincide with that which (Revelation 3:4) was given to the one whose garments were not defiled.[1383]" {3}

Logically it is not possible to defile garments that are not pure at first. The question is: What is the fate of those who have defiled their garments and have brought shame upon Jesus and His church? Only those who have pure garments will be present at the marriage supper and will subsequently return with Jesus at his second coming. (Revelation 19:7-8,14; cf. Matthew 22:11-12).

Two Books of Life?

Andy Woods admits that the OT references to being blotted out of the book of life contradict his teaching. (Exodus 32:31-33 and Psalm 69:27-28). His "solution" is that there are two books i.e. the book of life (the book of the living = physical life), and the Lamb's Book of life (eternal life). However his arguments for this are unconvincing.

Exodus 32:32

Moses plea regarding the sin of the Israelites: "But now, if You will, forgive their sin-- and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!" For the second time, Andy Woods skews the context by quoting Exodus 32:32 in isolation. Verse 33: The LORD replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of My book.. (Exodus 32:31-33).

Note: Moses refers to the book that God has written. The book of life in both the OT and the NT is a heavenly book in which the names of the righteous are inscribed. Those blotted out of the book have sinned grievously and are excluded from the company of the righteous. In other words, the upshot is that those blotted out are rendered unrighteous and have forfeited their place in heaven:

- the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9 cf. 2 Peter 2:9; Revelation 21:27).

Pulpit Commentary: "And if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book. Some interpret this as merely equivalent to, 'Blot me out of the book of the living,' and explain that phrase as meaning simply - 'Take my life - kill me instead of them' - but something more seems to be meant. 'The book of the living' - 'the book of life' - the book of God's writing - is not merely a register of those who happen to be alive at any given time. It 'contains the list of the righteous, and ensures to those whose names are written therein, life before God, first in the earthly kingdom of God, and then eternal life also' (Keil). Thus Moses declared his willingness - nay, his wish - that God would visit on him the guilt of his people, both in this world and the next, so that he would thereupon forgive them." {4}

Psalm 69:28

This is the third time that Andy Woods fails to mention the critical preceding verse:

Add iniquity to their iniquity, And may they not come into Your righteousness. (Psalm 69:27).

Benson on Psalm 69:27: "The words may be rendered, Add punishment to their punishment, (for the word עוןis often put for the punishment of iniquity.) Send one judgment upon them after another, without ceasing. And let them not come into thy righteousness.." {5}

May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous. (Psalm 69:28).

The question of "righteousness" puts severe doubt upon Andy Woods' argument that these OT examples are limited to those physically alive and to temporal consequences.

Below - Andy Woods' chart alleging that there are two books of life:

The phrase "the Lamb's book of life" occurs only twice in the New Testament (Revelation 13:8 and 21:27). The phrase "the book of life" (as against "the Lamb's book of life") is also found in the book of Revelation. (Revelation 3:5; 17:8 20: 12,15; 22:19). Paul also refers to "the book of life". (Philippians 4:3). Luke makes reference to those whose names are written in heaven (Luke 10:20). This expression is also found in Hebrews 12:23.

The white throne judgement in Revelation refers to only one book of life, whereas books (plural) applies to unbelievers: 

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. (Revelation 20:12-13, cf. Revelation 20:15).

Andy Woods teaching that "the book of life" referred to throughout the scriptures is not the same book as "the Lamb's book of life" is unsubstantiated. I submit that there is no compelling evidence to suggest that the book of life and the Lamb's book of life are two separate books. Andy Wood's theory matches his false doctrine, and his attempt to muddy the waters is extremely questionable. (Ezekiel 34:18).

The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is also promoted by Andy Woods. These two lethal false doctrines (the pre-trib rapture and eternal security) are often taught in tandem. The result is that they diminish the gospel and the criticality of remaining/continuing in the faith to the end. Careful exegesis shows that the rapture cannot occur until after the Antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God half way through the 70th week of Daniel. (2 Thessalonians 1-4). I recommend Alan Kurschner on this subject and also Paul Dorgan's comprehensive pre-wrath video on YouTube. (see Further Links).

The challenge for all Christians is to be Bereans. (Acts 17:11). I warn those attending Sugar Land Bible Church to test Andy Woods' teachings very carefully and to be very wary of his self assessment regarding doctrinal soundness. (1 John 4:1).

1. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_timothy/2-12.htm

2. https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/did-the-primitive-church-preach-the-doctrine-of-once-saved-always-saved/

3. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/meyer/revelation/3.htm

4. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/exodus/32.htm

5. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/psalms/69.htm

Further Links:

Quotes From The Early Church Fathers ~ https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/did-the-primitive-church-preach-the-doctrine-of-once-saved-always-saved/

The Great Deception ~ Joe Schimmel ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAQBTybv2mk&t=1432s
Alan Kurschner Eschatos Ministries ~ https://www.alankurschner.com/
Paul Dorgan End Times Seminar Session 4 - The Day of the Lord ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Ynrb2qugA&list=PLDS6L4dOrrh2b31rfWbTduK8Dv7LlQNlk&index=4
Once Saved Always Saved? ~

https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2019/12/once-saved-always-saved.html
Rapture archives ~ https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/search/label/Rapture

DAVE BORLASE (INTERCESSORS FOR BRITAIN) AND HIS ECUMENICAL FRIENDS!

For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14).

The ecumenical background of HEART Publications:

HEART Publications support and promote a number of "good causes". For instance, they tackle issues like poverty, abortion, anti-Semitism, gay marriage etc. HEART have all the appearance of godliness, and yet they and their associates undermine the very root of the gospel due to the defiling root of ecumenism. (2 Timothy 3:5; Psalm 11:3; Hebrews 12:15).



Vision: "To see local Christians unified and strengthened, sharing information and building trust across churches by providing a meeting place, a marketplace and forum for the local Christian community. To inform and stimulate concern about local and national issues relevant to our society." {1}

Melanie Symonds is the editor and publisher of Heart Publications. Interestingly, Melanie Symonds was previously Teacher in charge of German at St Philip Howard Catholic High School from 1999 - 2010. {2}

"HEART started in autumn 2007 after Melanie turned her back on a career as a languages teacher." {3}

HEART Publications Supporting Churches{4}include:

Our Lady of Sorrows Church - Roman Catholic. {5}
St Mary's Church Walberton - Anglican Ecumenical. {6}
Battle Baptist Church - affiliated with the ecumenical Baptist Union of Great Britain. {7}
St Barnabus Church Bexhill on Sea (ecumenical) is a Partner Church with HEART. {8}

Clifford Hill

Ecumenist and false prophet Clifford Hill is seriously involved with HEART Publications. Hill is the Founder and the current Editor in Chief of Prophecy Today UK and he is also the Director of Issachar Ministries.

HEART Publications: "The paper also benefits from regular ‘prophetic’ articles on the state of the nation from Rev Dr Clifford Hill, a respected national minister who has joined the council of reference which helps oversee the paper." {9}

* Clifford Hill's false prophecy of "revival" - 28th March 2008: London Night of Prayer Excel Centre East London: "Behold I will do a new thing. (Isaiah 43:19). Within four years God will do this .. it is as soon as that. ..there will be a move of God by the time the Olympics come to London. We will begin to see a real move of the Holy Spirit around that time, and what a witness to the world that will be." {10}

* Clifford Hill - 4th October 2008: "Judgement day has come upon the economy.."

Hill recounts a prophecy he gave at the Pavilion Bath in 1984: "Repentance and turning within three years.. I give you three years to get your house in order or judgement will fall upon this nation.."  {11) 

* Clifford Hill - February 2015: The Spiritual State of the Nation - Churches Together in England
Churches Together is ecumenical.

"Issachar Comments Papers
Expounding biblical concepts on the world scene today
SAVING THE CHURCH
Francis and Justin
Great expectations surround the appointment of new leaders to the two largest Christian churches. A new Pope to lead the worldwide Roman Catholic Church and a new Archbishop of Canterbury to lead the worldwide Anglican Communion is giving hope to millions of Christians that this may be a turning point in history. For half a century the churches have been in decline throughout the Western nations, battling against the onslaught of secularism from outside and the growth of corrupting forces from inside." {12} 

Pope Francis greets Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby during a private audience at the Vatican October 27, 2017. Photo: CNS/L'Osservatore Romano

Clifford Hill's close friend and "prophet" David Noakes.

I have previously noted the questionable nature of David Noakes' first person prophesies.

Noakes: "I call upon you who are faithful to stand firm and to persevere in prayer that the work which I have begun will proceed to the conclusion which I have purposed.." {13} The "faithful" that David Noakes refers to are ecumenical. As such they are neither faithful or comparable to the "good figs" of Jeremiah 24 as he claims! The seriousness of yoking oneself with the works gospel of the RC church is inestimable. (2 Corinthians 11:4; Mark 7:9).

Both Hill and Noakes are involved with the ecumenical pro-Israel monastic order, The Sisterhood of Mary. {14}

Jacob Prasch Moriel Ministries

Be wary of false teacher Jacob Prasch (Moriel Ministries)! Prasch claims to be against ecumenism, and yet he is also associated with HEART Publications, Clifford Hill and David Noakes. {15}

Prasch: "Like Stephen Gardner (Trumpet Sounds for Britain), David Forbes, and Dennis Clark who are now also with The Lord, and yourself, Clifford Hill, and David Noakes - Stuart was a voice to this formerly Christian nation and the remains of its faithful church." {16}

Prasch's reference to Stephen Gardner (Trumpet Sounds for Britain) is incorrect. David E Gardner wrote the book The Trumpet Sounds for Britain. Prasch's reference to Stuart Doole is also incorrect. Stewart Dool was the former Director of Intercessors for Britain. I will come back to Dool later.

In 2003, David E Gardner bemoaned the fact that the Coronation Oath had been violated. Gardner made much of the significance of this ritual as if it were somehow relevant to bible believing Christians. {17} In 1946 Queen Elizabeth (then Princess Elizabeth) was initiated as a Welsh Bard (Druid) -  how is that compatible with Christianity? {18} Biblically, the Coronation Oath has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity! The New Testament says that oath taking is wicked: Do not take an oath at all.. Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil. Matthew 5:35-37).

Prasch endorses David Noakes as a "valid prophetic voice".

PROPHECY GIVEN BY DAVID NOAKES AT MORIEL CONFERENCE 'NEW BEGINNINGS' 1ST NOVEMBER 1997. {19}

Noakes was a speaker Moriel's Scottish Conference at Gartmore House in November 2018.

Prasch supporters Amos Farrell (Genesis Christian Radio) and Pentecostal minister Ian Huxham (Evangel Church Sidmouth) are also part of the ecumenical clique associated with HEART. {20}

Intercessors for Britain

I was unaware until recently that Dave Borlase (Intercessors for Britain {IFB}) is also involved with HEART Publications. Borlase recently managed to get on the wrong side of Jacob Prasch due to his refusal to comply with Prasch's demands to take down David Nathan (Bread of Life Ministries). I was sympathetic with Borlase initially, and I would have supported him. However, as things stand, I cannot possibly support someone who is involved with the wicked infestation of ecumenism clearly evident within HEART Publications.

Below Borlase's false comparison between Britain and Israel:

"I am reminded that after the children of Israel had been released from Egypt, Pharaoh and his servants had a change of heart. Egypt gave pursuit and suddenly the Israelites found they were left with nowhere to turn. With the Red Sea before them and the power of Egypt behind them, they turned on Moses and wanted to go back under the power they had been delivered from. However, Moses said to the people, “Do not fear! Stand by and see the salvation of the Lord”. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Tell the sons of Israel to go forward”. (Exodus 14). The way forward may seem unclear to us, but we know for sure that God will direct our paths if we seek his direction. Whatever people say and do in the coming days, let us pray for God’s direction and for his decision, expressed through the Leave vote, to stand." {21}

Ray Borlase (Dave Borlase's father and founder of Intercessors for Britain) is a contributor to Christians Together, part of the ecumenical Churches Together Group. {22}
IFB also participated in Hope 2008 which was ecumenical.

Some thoughts from a former IFB member:

"Why should we storm the heavenlies praying for our useless humanistic government when we could be praying for our church?
I read a book written by a similar organisation in Sweden, intercessors for Sweden. They believed very strongly that Christians should take their nation for Christ. If we seek to become like the church in the New Testament we must accept that that is not a Biblical precedent, that is not what happened in Biblical times. The New Testament church did not take the nation of Israel for Christ. They preached the gospel. They went to prison. Many of them died. A lot of Intercessors for Britain theology is based on verses in the Old Testament about God's judgement coming on Israel. God looked for a man who would stand in the gap, but he found none, so judgement came. We were invited to stand in the gap, we could be that man, we could stop God's judgement coming on our nation. Another favourite verse was, 'If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and seek my face and repent of their sin, then will I hear from Heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.' I would have to differ with the popular interpretation of that verse. The people of Britain are not the people of God. We cannot pray for them as if they are. We cannot repent of their sins on their behalf and demand God's judgement not to come on them. The last forty years of prayer have made no difference to the United Kingdom. There is no hope of the abortion act ever being repealed, and abortion is becoming more common every day. The homosexuals have won, there can be no hope of doing anything to hold back their march for freedom now, and we are simply picking up the pieces and begging the politicians to give churches a few concessions so that the persecution of Christians under these laws will not be quite so severe.." {23}

Stewart Dool

Christians Together: "This prophetic word was received by the late Stewart Dool (who headed up Intercessors for Britain) in the week 23-27 July 2007." {24}

Below are some excerpts from Dool's 2007 first person prophecy.

To the church and the nation of Britain.
I am about to send fire upon you, the fire of My judgment, and it will consume on the right and on the left. All who have spurned My ways and My words will reap what they have sown, for in My burning anger I will judge the gods in whom you have put your trust, the gods of materialism and covetousness. The gold and the silver will be taken from you, and your portion will be emptiness, desolation and vanity.

I will bring the stability of your currency into doubt, to show you that it is I alone who caused you to prosper in the past. I raised you to prominence among the nations and gave you authority over many peoples: so you became rich, and boasted in your wealth, but I will bring you low, and the nations over whom you once ruled will say “What has happened to this great nation?”
My displeasure will be visited upon your Government, for those who rule over you have become offensive to Me, as they have set aside My laws and My statutes, exalting the wicked and despising My holy name. You have not abhorred bloodshed, therefore the blood of your sons and daughters will lie in your streets, until you learn that as the cry of the unborn calls to me for vengeance, so I shall require it of you.

Dool's full prophecy can be found on the link below:
https://www.christianstogether.net/Articles/91474/Christians_Together_in/Christian_
Life/Is_there_any/To_the_church.aspx

According to Christians Together, Dool's "word" was "weighed and tested by others in senior positions of ministry." I submit that since it was not feasible to test Dool's "word" by the scriptures, it was impossible to weigh and test his prophecy. However, in hindsight, thirteen years later, the events that Dool prophesied as imminent ("I am about to send fire upon you") HAVE NOT come to pass!

And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. (Deuteronomy 18:21-22)

There is no reason why God should extend special mercy and exempt Britain from the relentless evil that is coming upon the whole world, culminating in the man of sin, the Antichrist! (Revelation 3:10). These ecumenical leaders do not represent true Christianity in Britain. Brexit or no Brexit, Britain is a godless nation.

Further Reading:

http://ukapologeticslibrary.net/ecumenists-clifford-hill-david-noakes-moggerhanger-park/
https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/search?q=clifford+hill

https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/search?q=intercessors+for+britain

1. https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/our-vision/
2. https://uk.linkedin.com/in/melanie-symonds-12798341
3. https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/about-us/
4. https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/supporting-churches/
5. https://www.bognorcatholicparish.co.uk/
6. https://www.stmaryswalberton.org.uk/
7. https://www.baptist.org.uk/Groups/223404/Ecumenical_Relationships.aspx
8. https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/st-barnabas-bexhill-on-sea/
9. https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/CHURCH-SUPPORT-PACK-June-2019.pdf
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEZF60UvZ6E
11. https://vimeopro.com/highwaysolutions/issachar-ministries-uk-and-prophecy-today/video/83639452
12. http://www.issacharministries.co.uk/images/april2013.pdf
13. https://www.prophecytoday.uk/comment/editorial/item/496-a-prophetic-word-to-britain.html
14. https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2018/09/
15. https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/a-call-to-the-remnant-church/
16. https://www.facebook.com/MorielTV/posts/a-letter-from-jacob-prasch-moriel-to-ray-borlase-ifb-concerning-ifbs-social-medi/2155463961438683/
17. https://www.timefortruth.co.uk/content/pages/documents/1467558300.pdf
18. https://www.britishpathe.com/video/princess-a-welsh-bard
19. http://www.liederschatz.net/prophecies/noakes.pdf
20. https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/then-god-said-let-there-be-genesis-radio/
20. https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/redigging-the-wells-bible-week/
21. https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/the-battle-is-fierce/
22. https://www.christianstogether.net/mobile/default.aspx?group_id=169117&article_id=274764
23. https://www.abctales.com/story/mallisle/real-prayer-and-intercession
24. https://www.christianstogether.net/Articles/91474/Christians_Together_in/Christian_
Life/Is_there_any/To_the_church.aspx