CHRIS ROSEBROUGH: 70 WEEKS OF DANIEL PROPHECY

(338) F4F | Ask a Pirate Episode 1 - YouTube

Chris Rosebrough's Q and A session included a question about the 70 weeks of Daniel, which he answered according to Lutheran eschatology. When I returned to the video a few days later, this section was edited out, possibly because he expected some pushback regarding what he refers to as the "traditional understanding" of Daniel's 70 weeks which is virtually unheard of in the majority of commentaries. 

The question: "Would like to hear about the 70 weeks of Daniel. Jesus Christ fulfilled it is my understanding."  

Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”(Daniel 9:24-27).

Rosebrough: "Many charismatic and Pentecostal folk have a problem, and that is that they think there's still one week or part of a week left in Daniel's 70 weeks."  He refers to Daniel 12:4,9 which states that the prophecy was closed up and sealed until "the time of the end'. My understanding is that the Book of Revelation unseals Daniel's prophecy. (Revelation 22:10).

Rosebrough referred to the Concordia Commentary on Daniel in Logos which is apparently the "traditional understanding". Based on the claim that Daniel's prophecy is sealed at the end of the 70th week, Rosebrough asks the question: "When does that occur?" According to Concordia, Daniel's 70-week prophecy was fulfilled in 135AD when Emperor Hadrian conquered Jerusalem during the Second Jewish Revolt against the Roman Empire. 

Problems with this view

Hadrian did not fulfill this prophecy. During Hadrian's rule, a temple to Jupiter (Zeus) was set up on the Temple Mount, the previous site of the Jewish Temple. Preterists usually refer to the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus Vespasian in 70AD as the fulfillment of this prophecy. However, neither Titus nor Hadrian made a strong covenant with the many (the Jews) for one week (seven years) or broke the covenant halfway through that period. (Daniel 9:27). As others have argued, the 70-week prophecy is too far-reaching to apply to the preterist interpretation. By the first century, the first 483 of Daniel's 490-year prophecy were fulfilled, leaving the last seven years or "week" (shabua) to be fulfilled. (Daniel 9:27; Daniel 12:11). At the end of this final seven-year period, Israel's salvation will be accomplished. The key event in this timeframe is the midpoint of the week when the Antichrist signs a "strong covenant" with the Jews marking the onset of the great tribulation. The Olivet Discourse is a crucial passage that confirms these events. The disciples ask Jesus: "..when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming (parousia) and of the end of the age?” (Matthew 24:3).

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. (Matthew 24:15-28 cf.2 Thessalonians 2:3-4; Daniel 7:25,11:36; Revelation 13:3-6).

Amillennialism (Greek: a- "not" + Latin: mille "thousand" + annum "year") was the accepted view of the Roman Catholic Church and the 16th-century Protestant Reformers. No literal interpretation of the scriptures supports amillennialism. Amillennialism was systemized by Augustine of Hippo (354-430), and it was subsequently accepted as the dominant eschatology of the Medieval and Reformation periods. This view is still held by various Protestant denominations including Lutheran, Reformed, and Anglican. The Lutheran Church formally rejected the predominant view of the early Church Fathers i.e. premillennialism aka "chiliasm" in the Augsburg Confession—Art. XVII. My view is that amillennialism is based on tradition rather than the scriptures. Amillennialism has given rise to replacement theology which is a denial of the unfulfilled prophecies given regarding a literal Jewish remnant. (Romans 11:1-32). Premillennialism generally maintains a literal physical 1000-year reign of Christ based on Revelation 20 and other prophetic eschatological passages of scripture.

  

Theopedia: "Premillennialism was the most widely held view of the earliest centuries of the church. Philip Schaff has said, 'The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene Age (A.D. 100-325) is the prominent chiliasm, or millenarianism, . . . a widely current opinion of distinguished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papia, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and Lactantius.' (History of the Christian Church, Scribner, 1884; Vol. 2, p. 614)."1

Luther: "Our churches.. condemn the Anabaptists, who think that there will be an end to the punishments of condemned men and devils. They condemn also others who are now spreading certain Jewish opinions, that before the resurrection of the dead the godly shall take possession of the kingdom of the world, the ungodly being everywhere suppressed.."2 

Wikipedia: "Likewise, the Swiss Reformer Heinrich Bullinger wrote up the Second Helvetic Confession, which asserts, 'We also reject the Jewish dream of a millennium, or golden age on earth, before the last judgment' John Calvin wrote in Institutes of the Christian Religion that chiliasm is a 'fiction' that is 'too childish either to need or to be worth a refutation.'"3  

Some denominations such as Methodists and Baptists do not take an official position on Daniel's 70 weeks and their ministers have latitude to teach this subject according to their convictions. The official position of the Assemblies of God (Pentecostal) is that "the weight of Scripture supports a pre-Tribulation Rapture."4 However, individual AG churches are autonomous and it is not always possible to ascertain exactly what they believe about the 70 weeks if they teach on the subject at all. Many AG churches have fallen to the NAR deception which denies premillennialism and aligns with dominion theology. 

The two primary premillennial views are historic premillennialism and dispensational premillennialism. Historic premillennialism is the classic form of premillennialism found in the writings of the early Church Fathers. Dispensational premillennialism was developed by cult leader John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Unfortunately, Darby and Schofield succeeded in infecting the church with the pretrib dispensational teachings that permeate many churches today. The result is that the pretrib rapture is aggressively promoted by many teachers with a "Left Behind" mindset who should know better. Non-charismatic pro-Israel teachers like Andy Woods (Sugar Land Bible Church), Prophecy Watchers, Tom Hughes (Hope for our Times), Jan Markell, Jack Hibbs, etc. relentlessly promote the pretrib rapture view even though it is extremely tenuous and fails to stand up to rigorous methodology. Following much research, I rejected the pretrib rapture view and concluded that the prewrath view solves the false eschatology of the pretrib camp.*  

Like Rosebrough, I have come out of a Charismatic/Pentecostal background, and like him, I have reacted strongly against their false teachings, their incessant false prophecies, and what can only be described as their rank foolishness. I have been careful not to exchange one false teaching for another, even though this has resulted in isolation at times. I find it difficult to understand why someone of Rosebrough's caliber and problematic background in charismatic circles would launch into Lutherism with its semi-Roman Catholic theology, including baptismal regeneration, consubstantiation, amillennial eschatology, and over-emphasized liturgy etc.

1. Premillennialism | Theopedia
2. J:\Users\Marius\Documents\The Augsburg Confession (1530).wpd
3. Amillennialism - Wikipedia
4. Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | The Rapture of the Church

Further Links

* 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie)
70th Week of Daniel Archives | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES

DAYSTAR: AMANDA GRACE "PROPHET" THE VULTURES ARE CIRCLING.

Amanda Grace: The Word of the Lord for Daystar

This is exactly what I feared for Jonathan and Suzy Lamb. No doubt various "prophecies" and "words from the Lord" are coming in thick and fast and I hope they will be very discerning about who they listen to. 

Amanda "Grace" is the founder of Ark of Grace Ministries (AGM) in New York. She claims to be a "Prophetic Ambassador" and an "Apostle" and speaks to nations -- right! AGM: "She empowers believers to discover and walk in their divine destinies. Her dedication transforms lives and makes her a respected leader in the prophetic community." 1 This is classic New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) language. No person living today can meet the biblical qualifications for holding the office of an apostle. See my previous posts debunking the role of modern-day "Apostles". Amanda Grace is an alias. Her other names are Amanda Carbone and Amanda Wagner. There are various exposés of Amanda's false prophecies on YouTube (see the links). 

Unfortunately, Canadian broadcaster Laura-Lynn Tyler Thompson has bought into this woman's false ministry hook, line, and sinker. The lack of discernment among previous Daystar affiliates is extremely concerning. False prophets are very convincing and speak many things that sound biblical until you dig deeper. Amanda has a strong personality and commanding communication skills. She often relies on notes and reads out her alleged "prophecies". I urge Laura-Lynn and others to test the spirits before they endorse anyone as a "prophet". (1 John 4:1). I am not a cessationist. However, when self-appointed "Apostles" and "Prophets" constantly proclaim "Thus saith the Lord" with grandiose sounding "prophecies" be very wary. Marcus Rogers is another "prophet" who repeatedly claims that the Lord has spoken to him directly.2 Thank God this man's puffed-up foolishness has been universally rejected. (2 Corinthians 11:13; Matthew 7:15). Many more wolves are disguising themselves as apostles and prophets in these perilous times. (2 Timothy 3:1-9; 2 Peter 2:1).

Amanda Grace: "I the Lord have seen these things and it grieves me says the Lord. It grieves me that what was created to be a cloud by day has now become a stench publicly. It grieves me says the Lord that what was supposed to be a cloud by day that began in all wholesomeness has become a den of thieves and quarreling and jocking for position and trying to save what hands have made. It grieves me says the Lord to know that this is the state of what the church has become." (December 11th 2024).

Can we honestly say that Daystar was "created (by God) to be a cloud by day" and started out right as Amanda Grace claims? Daystar has never been an authentic Christian ministry (in my opinion). In 1996, the Lambs received a large contribution from arch-deceiver Kenneth Copeland. This enabled them to purchase a station in Colorado, officially turning their television ministry into a network. In August 1997, the staff moved into a 32,000-square-foot (3,000 m2) facility that included production studios and Daystar was officially launched on New Year's Eve 1997.3  Daystar hosts a proliferation of false prosperity teachers. No authentic Christian ministry would give a platform to teachers like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jesse Duplantis, Sid Roth, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, and all the other wolves. Apart from that huge red flag, on November 30th, 2010 Marcus Lamb publicly confessed to having had a seven-year extramarital affair. Can any true believer continue in "ministry" during a seven-year-long extramarital affair? Biblically, this appalling sin should have disqualified him from having any leadership role within an authentic church. (1 Timothy 3:1-7). This alleged "ministry" was an abomination from its inception and continues to propagate false teachers to the present day.     

Now I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create divisions and obstacles that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Turn away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. (Romans 16:17-18).

1. About Us | Ark of Grace Ministries
2. IS THIS MAN DANGEROUS? Daystar & Joni Lamb Defended by Marcus Rodgers - Hears Directly from God?
3. Daystar Television Network - Wikipedia

Further Links

Amanda Grace Forbids You to Praise Jesus While She Speaks. Donations are OK !!!The False Prophets Are Getting Bolder | Amanda Grace Saga | Part 1
Amanda Grace & Robin Bullock Exposed.

Amanda Grace' Failed Passover Prophecy. Says God quotes Aleister Crowley.
Holly Pivec on “New Apostolic Reformation” ( NAR ) | Learning in the Open

FURTHER EXPOSURE OF DAYSTAR WICKEDNESS

 

The above clip from a video by Laura-Lynn Tyler Thompson with her guest former Daystar employee Morgan Farris is a powerful example of the spiritual abuse practiced by Daystar and other wolves involved in teaching the "prosperity gospel". 

This heresy is promoted by many false Charismatic/Pentecostal/NAR teachers under the Word-Faith label. The "prosperity gospel"  has its roots in the occult "New Thought movement” and is a form of witchcraft wrapped up in Christianese.

The despicable predatory conduct of greedy televangelists who appeal for repeated gifts from people in financial distress or personal crises has long been denounced by orthodox teachers. Those who buy into this teaching are given false hope that giving a gift or "sowing a seed" will reap financial benefits, in this case, ten times the amount donated. When the alleged prosperity fails to materialize, victims are spiritually abused and condemned because they "lack faith". This wicked teaching is extremely dangerous and leads to spiritual ruin. Mark and avoid the wolves who promote this heresy. (Isaiah 56:11).

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. (Romans 16:17-18).

The full video: Daystar Former Employee Speaks Ou
Caveat: I do not agree with everything in this video. For instance:

Robert Morris (Gateway Church) was not only a child abuser he was a prosperity teacher obsessed with tithing: 

Why Robert Morris Is A False Teacher – Evangelical Dark Web

I regard Rodney Howard-Browne aka "the Holy Ghost Bartender" as a dangerous false teacher: 

(298) Rodney Howard Browne - False Teacher? Rare footage! - YouTube

Women pastors/elders are not biblical:  

Women Leaders in the New Testament: Women in Ministry part 4

In my view, there is much more false teaching that needs to be rectified by those coming out of Daystar. Having said that, they have made a good start and I am praying that God will lead them into all truth. (John 16:13).

ANDY WOODS: REVELATION 3:10 DOES NOT SUPPORT THE PRETRIB RAPTURE

 One Verse That Proves the Pretrib Rapture | Andy Woods

Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. (Revelation 3:10).

Mondo Gonzales (Prophecy Watchers) and Andy Woods discuss Revelation 3:10 and its alleged affirmation of the pretrib rapture of the church. 

Woods homes in on the Greeek τηρήσω ἐκ "I will keep {you} out of". There are two issues to consider 1 the context and the definition of "the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world"; 2 the application of τηρήσω ἐκ to Revelation 3:10 and John 17:15.

Gonzales and Woods make the assumption that "the hour of trial" is the tribulation, but this interpretation is problematic. The great tribulation applies to believers, whereas "the hour of trial" will come upon the whole world i.e. the earth dwellers. During the tribulation, believers are called to perseverance during a period of unprecedented persecution and martyrdom. (Matthew 24:13; Revelation 3:8). The hour of trial is the direct wrath of God (the day of the Lord's wrath) that comes upon the whole world after the great tribulation. (Revelation 6:17; Matthew 24:29). The churches in Philadelphia and Smyrna are faithful and do not receive a rebuke from the Lord. Philadelphia is promised:  I will keep you from the hour of trial.. whereas Smyrna is given the conditional promise: The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death. (Revelation 2:9-11). The severe warnings pronounced against the compromising churches are prefixed by "I have this against you". One can only assume that unfaithful churches i.e. those who compromise will suffer the wrath of God along with the world unless they repent. (Revelation 2:5,16,21-22,3:3,16). Revelation 3:10 is addressed more fully by Alan Kurschner: Revelation 3:10 Archives | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES          

Woods addresses the well-known objection to the theory that Revelation 3:10 refers to a pretrib rapture. He cites John 17:15 where the same construction τηρήσω ἐκ is used. Since John was the author of the Gospel of John and the Book of Revelation and both are direct quotes from Jesus, it is reasonable to interpret τηρήσω ἐκ similarly to affirm the idea that Revelation 3:10 means literally to“keep from” rather than "preserve through".

John 17:15 consists of two phrases:

I do not ask that you take them out of the world (ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου)

but (ἀλλ’) that you keep (τηρήσῃς) them from the evil {one}. (John 17:15).

Woods: "What people do is they look at the wrong object. The ἐκ and τηρήσω go with the evil one, not with the world."  ?? Gonzales and Woods profess to be skilled in the original languages, but I am hesitant about accepting Woods' interpretation of John 17:15. I do not claim to be an expert in biblical Greek, but I would read this verse differently. The object of the first phrase is the world and ἀλλ’ is the conjunction. In my view, the reading of John 17:15 is that Jesus rejects taking His followers out of the world (ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου), in favour of the contrasting course i.e. to keep (τηρήσῃς) them from evil (or the evil one). I do not think this verse refers to the rapture; rather it seems to have the sense of the Lord's prayer "deliver us from evil" (Matthew 6:13 cf. 2 Thessalonians 3:3; 1 John 5:18). 

Ellicott: "We have to bear in mind also that the present passage occurs in the second 'Lord's Prayer,' and that His prayer for them may with probability be interpreted in the same sense as the words in which He taught them to pray. On the whole, therefore, it seems likely, but yet is by no means certain, that we ought to read here, 'that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one.'" 1 

Strong's: The Greek conjunction 'ἀλλά' (alla) is used to denote contrast or exception. It is often translated as 'but,' 'rather,' or 'on the contrary' in English. This word serves to introduce a statement that contrasts with or opposes what has been previously mentioned. It is a critical conjunction in Greek for clarifying distinctions and emphasizing differences in thought or action.2  

Two examples of ἀλλά

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but (ἀλλὰ) a sword. (Matthew 10:34). 

Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but (ἀλλὰ) seventy-seven times. (Matthew 18:22).

Woods' faulty definition of the tribulation is a huge problem. There is a clear distinction in the scriptures between tribulation (thlipsis) and wrath (orgé). Woods' denial of the critical information that God's direct wrath begins after the tribulation is a disturbing contradiction of the scriptures.

Immediately after the tribulation (thlipsin) of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31).

When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath (orgēs) has come, and who can stand?” (Revelation 6:12-17).

The following verses quoted by Woods allegedly teach a pretrib rapture. 

Do not let your hearts be troubled. (John 14:1-4). 

Therefore encourage one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 413-18).  

For Woods, if these verses do not indicate a pretrib rapture "..it is not much of a comfort." Citing individual verses as evidence of a pretrib rapture is irresponsible and dangerous. These verses/passages do not specify the timing of the rapture and critically not one verse in the bible teaches a pretrib rapture. The call to faith is a tough call! Believers are repeatedly warned about the extreme cost of discipleship. (Luke 14:27-28; Matthew 24:9; John 16:2-3; Acts 14:22; 2 Timothy 3:12; 1 Peter 4:12-14; 1 John 13:13 etc.) 

The pretrib rapture fallacy is likely to have severe repercussions for the body of Christ and I am aghast that Woods and others shamelessly persist in promoting it. Woods et al are so entrenched that they have created an almost impenetrable stronghold. (2 Corinthians 10:4-5; Ephesians 6:12). I pray and hope they will humble themselves before the Lord and repent before it is too late. (1 John 4:1).  

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19).

A further word of caution 

Prophecy Watchers give a platform to false teachers such as Jonathan Cahn who claims to be "prophetic", "Reverend" Donna Howell, and recently disgraced spiritual abuser Jimmy Evans.4 Prophecy Watchers are closely involved with and are tainted by the heretical TV network Daystar.3  Prophecy Watchers: "A NEW DAY is dawning at our ministry. After the TBN building and studio acquisition … after Daystar Television accepted our program.."5 This is a severe compromise and smacks of the NAR! Like many false ministries, Prophecy Watchers constantly peddle their merchandise. (2 Corinthians 2:17). Several pretrib teachers appear on Daystar including LA Marzuli, Bill Salus, Billy Crone, Tom Hughes, David Jeremiah, and Jack Hibbs who endorses Che Ahn!6 Jack Hibbs' unbiblical response to Michael Grant when challenged about his compromise and the doctrine of separation is very telling: They Actually Responded & It Wasn't Good IMHO (My Take on the Situation) Unfortunately Andy Woods seems willing to sacrifice almost anything on the altar of the pretrib rapture! (1 Thessalonians 5:22; Romans 16:17-18).

  

1. John 17:15 Commentaries: "I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.
2. Strong's Greek: 235. ἀλλά (alla) -- but, rather, on the contrary
3. Shows | Daystar Television
4 .Jimmy Evans: A Line in the Sand - The Prophecy Watchers
5. Meet the New Co-Host of Prophecy Watchers!
6. Jack Hibbs Endorses NAR Che Ahn l HR1154 "Conspir@cy The0rists" bill l Temple on earth @ FOT timing

ONE CHURCH LEICESTER: DAVID HIND IS NOT AN APOSTLE! THE EVIDENCE

Many discernment ministries have recently commented that we are in "a season of exposure" and that God is judging the church at the present time. A few of the most well-known "ministries" to have been exposed recently are Benny Hinn, Robert Morris/Gateway Church, Brian Houston/ Hillsong, Mike Bickle/IHOP, David Platt/McLean Bible Church, Chris Reed/MorningStar, and, of course, Joni Lamb/Daystar. Entitled NAR leaders shamelessly flaunt opulent lifestyles at the expense of their much less affluent followers. (Isaiah 56:11). One of the most shocking examples I have seen is Joni Lamb's $100,000 honeymoon! These wolves increase while Jesus decreases; they dare to abuse their positions in the name of the Lord to their own destruction. He must increase, but I must decrease. (John 3:30 cf. 2 Peter 2:1).

The faulty megachurch model that the Hinds have sought to emulate at One Church is beginning to crumble. At last, many believers are waking up and rejecting unqualified leaders who promote themselves and lord it over the flock. (1 Peter 5:3; Matthew 20:25-28; Ezekiel 34:2-4). My prayer is that the growth of biblical assemblies based on the New Testament model of autonomous congregations, the truth of the scriptures, and faithful teachers will continue to grow. 

Jesus' rejection of those he never knew, is specifically directed against those who make all kinds of claims regarding prophecy and signs and wonders. These claims are made predominantly by the false prophets of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) within the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement.  On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ (Matthew 7:22-23). Jesus Himself warned about seeking signs. (Matthew 12:39,16:4,24:24 cf. Deuteronomy 13:1-2). Lying signs will be the deception of the Antichrist. (2 Thessalonians 2:9; Revelation 13:13-14,19:20,16:14). That is not to say that Jesus does not perform miracles among believers, but there is a caution to test the spirits. (1 John 4:1). The showmanship of Benny Hinn, one of the false teachers endorsed by the Hinds, is a graphic example of lying signs.     

In line with their unbiblical egalitarian views, David and Susan Hind describe themselves as "Senior Leaders" and "joint pastors" of One Church. On their website, Susan Hind is described as "a bible teacher carrying a prophetic gifting" while David Hind is described as "a dynamic leader of leaders with an apostolic gifting".1 These narcissistic claims should ring alarm bells. The real apostles never boasted in such ways. (Ephesians 3:8; Acts 20:24; James 1:1; Jude 1:1). When someone claims to have an "apostolic/prophetic gifting" it is an underhand way of claiming that they are an "apostle" or a "prophet".* The Hinds have strong links with the NAR as demonstrated by their association with false "prophet" Simon Braker. Make no mistake, if you attend One Church you are attending an NAR church and are at risk of spiritual deception. 
*"Apostolic" & Prior "Prophetic" Ministries 😳

The NAR is a dominionist movement that asserts God's restoration of the "lost offices of church governance, specifically the offices of Prophet and Apostle". These "lost offices" were invented by false teacher C Peter Wagner in the 1990s. (Proverbs 30:6). Before Wagner, these "offices" did not exist within the church for almost 2000 years. Holly Pivec: "NAR apostles and prophets claim to possess much greater authority than pastors and elders. This is because pastors and elders must submit to the apostles and prophets since they are divinely authorized spokespersons for God. Also, pastors and elders govern within a single church. But NAR apostles and prophets may govern multiple churches at once. And, in many cases, the authority of these apostles and prophets extends beyond churches to workplaces, cities, and nations. Thus, NAR prophets and apostles claim to wield extraordinary authority with insufficient accountability. These claims have opened doors to abusive leadership and the promotion of harmful and aberrant teachings that have caused spiritual harm to countless individuals. They’ve brought division and disunity to many families and churches."2   

David Hind is NOT an apostle - the evidence  

The Church is built on the original foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20; 2 Corinthians 3:11). 

Following the betrayal and death of Judas Iscariot, the decision to select his replacement was based on Psalm 109:8: Let another take his office.

So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection. (Acts 1:21-22).

These verses set out the essential criteria for apostleship: An apostle must be a disciple of Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry, and he must be an eyewitness of Jesus' resurrection. The twelve apostles were commissioned directly by Jesus. The selection of Judas' replacement was achieved by praying and casting lots. (Acts 1:21-26).  And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. (Acts 1:24-26).

Paul was the last apostle chosen directly by Jesus Christ as one "untimely born".

Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. (1 Corinthians 15:7-8).

No man alive today fulfills the Acts 1:21-22 criteria of an apostle.

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).

David and Susan Hind are NOT prophets - the evidence

The criteria for determining a true prophet is that their prophecies come to pass. (Deuteronomy 18:21-22). This may seem obvious, but many NAR "prophets" prophecy things that blatantly do not come to pass. Even if their prophecies do come to pass, but they encourage the worship of other gods these "prophets" should be rejected. God commanded that false prophets must be to be put to death in the Old Testament. (Deuteronomy 13:1-3,18:20 cf. Matthew 24:24; 2 Peter 2:1-3). 

NAR "prophets" are very good at raising false hopes and use buzzwords such as "breakthrough" "outpouring", "prophetic" and "revival". Their prophecies are in direct contradiction to explicit New Testament warnings of unprecedented end-time wickedness and apostasy. (Matthew 24:12; 2 Timothy 3:1,4:1-3; 2 Peter 3:3; Jude 1:18; 1 John 2:18). NAR leaders play the "God told me" card which automatically trumps the scriptures leaving believers who have doubts in a confused and vulnerable position. 

Both David and Susan Hind have prophecied revival in Leicester for some years. In a short video released on the 30th June 2020 "Pray for Change" both Susan and David Hind parrot the "revival" mantra of the NAR false prophets that we have heard repeated year after year. This mantra has worn rather thin over the years and many believers have come to reject the false promises of "imminent revival". False "prophets" never question why their "revival" never comes to anything, but astonishingly they persist unrepentant and undeterred.  

Susan Hind begins by quoting the first part of Jeremiah 33:9 out of context - And this city shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and a glory before all the nations.. According to Susan Hind, many people have prayed this verse "over our city" over the years. What NAR "prophets" describe as "prayer" often consists of the unbiblical practice of "declaration". They "decree and declare" certain things they decide are going to happen rather than submitting genuine prayers of petition to the Lord. (Matthew 6:10).

Susan Hind: "Right now the eyes of the world are on Leicester and Leicestershire... so what about if God was about to break into our city and county?"

David Hind continued the hype with the words from the song "Change" by Bright City:

We can see a change coming
Our God is here to save
We can see a change coming
The streets are filled with praise
We can see a change coming
The church will take her place
We can see a change coming
Revival’s on its way  

David Hind: "God is at work here in Leicestershire.."3  

On the 1st May 2022 David Hind went even further: "This is a fulfillment season, an outbreak season."4 Over a year later, Hind proclaimed "We are still on the cusp of revival".4 This is typical of false prophets who constantly repeat that we are on the cusp of something enormous, but that "something" never happens.

The non-fulfillment of these "prophecies" is clear evidence that David and Susan Hind are not genuine prophets.

In addition to their false "apostolic/prophetic" claims, the Hinds are false teachers. This was recently demonstrated by David Hind's abysmal Mickey Mouse teaching on women pastors and tithing.4 Furthermore, their ungodly associations, their history of flouting the scriptures, and their constant pressure to give to the One Church "Vision" are additional reasons to reject their "ministry". (2 Timothy 2:15,4:16; James 3:1). 

1. About | One Church Leicester
2. Protect your church from the NAR: adopt a position paper — Holly Pivec
3. https://youtu.be/VHaj5wKqiac
4. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: One Church Leicester

Further Links

The Assemblies of God and the NAR — Holly Pivec
The Heretical Submission Doctrine of Jimmy Evans & Joni Lamb | The Roys Report
Pastor LOSES IT Over Explosive House Church Growth - What’s Really Going On?

THE DEMONIC SUBMISSION DOCTRINE OF JONI LAMB DAYSTAR

The Heretical Submission Doctrine of Jimmy Evans & Joni Lamb | The Roys Report

This podcast by Julie Roys and Lance Ford uncovers the horror of the demonic "submission doctrine" operating within Daystar. This unbiblical doctrine is not limited to Daystar, it causes widespread damage to believers within many churches and is most prevalent within NAR and Charismatic churches. (1 Timothy 4:1). The above analysis of the spiritual abuse meted out by Joni Lamb and Jimmy Evans to Joni's son, Jonathan, and his wife Suzy is very eye-opening. Hopefully, it will help many Christians to discern the true nature of submission and authority within the church. 

..and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (John 8:32).

JONI LAMB DAYSTAR: SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED!

The Roys Report: Full Audio of Daystar Meeting

Roys Report: "During their time at Daystar TV Network, former Vice President Jonathan Lamb and his wife, Suzy Lamb, say they were spiritually abused by Jonathan’s mother, Daystar President Joni Lamb, and her close ally, Jimmy Evans. In this special edition of The Roys Report, we’re releasing full audio of Joni and Jimmy Evans’ meeting with Jonathan and Suzy Lamb in which Evans claims Joni is 'the voice of God' to Jonathan and Suzy..  What you are about to hear is one of the most stunning examples of spiritual abuse that I've ever witnessed.. "

The above meeting was between Jony Lamb, her close ally and "spiritual adviser" Jimmy Evans, and Jonathan and Suzy Lamb. Evans is the founder and president of XO Marriage and Tipping Point Ministries. He is a pre-trib rapture teacher and touts himself as an end-time prophecy expert. His theology raises several red flags biblically, and his behaviour during this meeting did nothing to ease my doubts regarding his suitability as a prophecy expert, a marriage counselor, or a spiritual adviser. I have added a link below that biblically debunks the pre-trib rapture. (1 John 4:1).

The main topic of the discussion centred around the marriage between Joni Lamb and Doug Weiss. Doug Weiss divorced his wife Lisa of thirty years in 2021 just two months after the death of Joni's husband Marcus Lamb. Joni claims to have begun dating Weiss in August 2022 and they married in June 2023. She paid for the $100,000 honeymoon in two installments with the Daystar credit card.1 From a biblical perspective, marriage to a divorced person in these circumstances is unsanctioned. No legitimate pastor could have endorsed this marriage. Nevertheless, Jimmy Evans gave it his full approval and officiated. Apart from the scriptural perspective, the speed of events leading up to the marriage is very odd given Joni's recent bereavement. 

To add to the strangeness, Weiss previously held out his first marriage as a beacon and an example that enhanced his reputation as "a renowned expert in the field of relationships and sexuality". Even after his divorce, Weiss kept up the illusion that he was married.

Nex News: "Dr. Doug Weiss and his wife, Lisa Weiss, have forged a strong partnership built on love, understanding, and shared values. Their journey as a couple has been marked by mutual respect and support, which has contributed to their enduring bond. As Dr. Weiss empowers others to enhance their relationships, his own marriage serves as a testament to the principles he advocates."3

According to Evans: "Doug Weiss was justified in divorcing his wife because he was emotionally abused."  This statement is at variance with Weiss's previous declaration of "happiness" with his first wife. 

Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being, and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart. (Psalm 51:6).

Biblical divorce and remarriage - it's an open and shut case! 

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to understand that there is only one circumstance in which a man or woman can divorce and remarry. However, "biblical expert" Jimmy Evans has contrived additional nonbiblical categories and has put many at risk of committing adultery. He has added "abuse, addiction, and abandonment" to adultery as valid reasons to divorce and remarry. Joni Lamb and Doug Weiss have applied Evans' nonbiblical category of "emotional abuse" to their adulterous marriage and Joni has insisted that it is accepted as valid within the cultish community of Daystar. (Proverbs 30:6; Deuteronomy 12:32; 2 Corinthians 10:5).

Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” (Matthew 19:9 cf. Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18).

"It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:31-32).

To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Corinthians 7:10-11).

For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the LORD, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.” (Malachi 2:16).

Jonathan and Suzy's qualms about the legitimacy of Joni's marriage were completely justified. To have given way to this level of ungodly coercion would have violated their consciences and would have been sinful. Joni and Jimmy Evans' maltreatment of them culminated with the reprehensible ultimatum "Submit or leave".

Jimmy Evans to Jonathan and Suzy Lamb: "So do you feel that she (Joni) is in an adulterous relationship?"

Suzy Lamb "No. that's not why we didn't do that."

Evans repeated the question

Jonathan Lamb: "Well I think God is the judge of that, I can't really say for sure."

Evans: "Well you're judging". 

Suzy: That's not because of that though.. That's a boundary, that's her marriage, it's different from ministry. Ministry.. we are here to talk about God and we're here to do that.  Her marriage is out of Daystar, we have no relationship with him (Dough Weiss). He has not talked to us once and we.. I will never be fake on TV.."

I appreciate that Jonathan and Suzy were in a difficult position and that their relationship with Joni and their jobs were at stake. However, I think they would have done better to voice their objections to the marriage upfront. I am reminded of John the Baptist's bold rebuke against Herod regarding his illegitimate marriage to Herodias. (Matthew 14:4). Not everyone is that bold, but the issue of Joni's adulterous marriage to Doug Weiss is a deal-breaker as far as Christian witness and ministry is concerned. Jonathan and Suzy could not have endorsed the marriage without participating in Joni's spiritual defilement. (Matthew 15:19; Proverbs 1:1,10; 1 Corinthians 13:6).

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. (1 Corinthians 5:11).

Joni is desperate to gain approval for her adulterous marriage, in fact, she demands it. She is willing to put this marriage above her alleged faith and her family. I refer to it as "alleged faith" because Daystar is an ungodly channel that gives a platform to many false teachers. As the meeting progressed, the spiritual abuse and persecution against Jonathan and Suzy was difficult to listen to. The scripture twisting, and the false accusations of rebellion and witchcraft were nothing less than demonic. Between them, Joni Lamb and Jimmy Evans did a thorough job of calling evil good and good evil. (Isaiah 5:20). These tactics have nothing to do with biblical Christianity.  

Evans: "Joni is the voice of God to you". Anyone who insists on submission to unbiblical precepts in the name of God is operating in the spirit of deception. (1 John 4:6). No one can take the place of God in another person's life in any circumstances. Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18). "Antichrist" is translated from the combination of two Greek words ἀντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). In Greek, Χριστός means "anointed one" and the word Christ derives from it. "Ἀντί" means not only anti in the sense of "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of". (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).2 

Joni Lamb's dodgy counselors

Joni's counselors have been very willing to flout the scriptures to accommodate her adulterous marriage. (Psalm 107:11).

When Jonathan pressed Joni for the name of the pastor who advised her about her marriage she refused to name him. All we know is that he is "a pastor of thirty-five years". This argument of "experience" and length of time in so-called "ministry" is a red herring.  The fact that he gave this appalling advice demonstrates that he is unqualified. ( 2 Timothy 2:15).      

Joni named Shawn Bolz as one of her "prophetic advisors". Shawn (Smart Phone) Bolz is a deceiver who is known for his "iPhone prophecies" i.e. he uses the internet to obtain information about people in his audience to give them "words of knowledge". Bolz was caught out when he mixed up two people with the same name in one of his meetings and it backfired on him. Tom Lennie: "This single incident confirms beyond reasonable doubt what I and many other Bolz sceptics have strongly suspected for years – Shawn Bolz uses the internet to obtain the information for his ‘words of knowledge’."4 

Joni Lamb: "Shortly after some people learned that Doug and I were seeing each other, Shawn Bolz told me the Lord showed him there would be many significant marriages in 2023 and that God was bringing couples together in unusual pairings."5 

Joni's "spiritual adviser" Jimmy Evans: "Jimmy himself knew that he was accountable to God for what he taught and how he counseled. He later confided in me, 'Joni, when you came to me and began to talk to me about Doug, I was concerned as your older brother in Christ. My concern was, I don’t want anything for you that God won’t bless. If I felt like this guy was a bad guy, someone that had divorced without a cause or whatever, I’d chase him off. I don’t care what you say; I’d chase him off! I seriously prayed about it because I knew I needed the discernment of the Lord..' I brought Jimmy in at the start of my relationship with Doug, and he immediately called and talked to Doug extensively. Not only did Jimmy and Doug talk, but they also went through several intensive sessions together so Jimmy could determine the biblical credibility of Doug’s divorce and whether I could confidently pursue a marriage relationship with God’s blessing.5

Joni: "The other day we had Barry Segal on. Well, Suzy and Rebecca they just like and love Derek Prince right, love him. So his first wife died. Did you know his second wife was divorced for abandonment, there was no adultery. Barry Segal same thing, married to Batya. Guess what? She was married before; abandonment, no adultery. So you can say all you want that he (Doug) doesn't have a biblical reason, but he does, he does have a biblical reason." (45:00 mark)

Firstly, I regard Derek Prince as one of the most dangerous false teachers ever to have deceived the church. This praise of Derek Prince demonstrates the unspeakable level of delusion within the professing church. I have added a link to Prince's lethal false teachings. Putting my loathing for Prince's teaching aside, perhaps Joni was mistaken, or, given her questionable relationship with truth, perhaps she was lying when she said there was no adultery in Ruth Bakers' first marriage! In his own words, Derek Prince describes his marriage to Ruth Baker..

Derek Prince: "I fully satisfied myself that Ruth’s first husband had been manifestly unfaithful and that was the basis of the divorce. On that basis I felt that Ruth was scripturally free to marry me without any stigma of inferiority or guilt."6

I know nothing about the circumstances of Barry and Batya Segals marriage and I am unable to validate Joni's claim that there was no adultery. If this is true, it is obvious that believers should never follow the bad example of others, we should always follow the scriptures! (3 John 1:11).

 

This horrible situation is not only about Joni Lamb and what she wants. Joni has publicly dishonoured God, she has hurt her family, she has damaged the wider Christian community and she has brought the gospel into disrepute. (2 Peter 2:2; Romans 1:32). The murky world of Daystar is something to be avoided at all costs!

And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people’s faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them. Such people are not serving Christ our Lord; they are serving their own personal interests. By smooth talk and glowing words they deceive innocent people. (Romans 16:17-18).

1. Joni Lamb Denies Daystar Paid $100K for Honeymoon, but Reports Show Otherwise

2. Meet Dr. Doug Weiss: His Marriage to Lisa Weiss and Parenthood Journ
3. Strong's Greek: 500. ἀντίχριστος (antichristos) -- Antichrist
4. Discerning False Prophecy: Part Three
5. How God Miraculously Led Joni Lamb and Doug Weiss Together - Charisma News
6. Divorce, Remarriage, Celibacy | Sermon | Derek Prince Ministries

Further Links

7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie)
Todd White and Shawn Bolz - Proven Cold Readers!
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Derek Prince
Daystar TV Joni Lamb Threaten Christian Youtubers With Lawsuit
The Roys Report Refuses Daystar’s Demand to Retract Articles
Joni Lamb and Doug Weiss Relationship with Jimmy Evans Blessing & More SHOCKING Information

Disclaimer: The views expressed in this post are my opinions and personal interpretations of the scriptures.

I have added this disclaimer because Daystar Television Network has employed the law firm Kelly Hart & Hallman LLP to send requests for “correction and retraction of statements" to various discernment ministries with the threat of defamation lawsuits levied against them if they don’t remove the so-called “defamatory statements”. Yet again we see this heretical network throwing its weight around and flouting the scriptures! (1 Corinthians 6:1-8).