ANDY WOODS' CHEAP SHOT AT THE PREWRATH RAPTURE!

(1) If You Only Knew | with Tom Hughes & Dr. Andy Woods - YouTube

In this episode of Hope For Our Times, rabid pre-trib teacher Andy Woods of Sugar Land Bible Church takes a cheap shot at the prewrath rapture. Woods argues that wrath (orgē) and tribulation (thlipsis) are synonyms in Romans 2:8-9. (27:00 mark). Since orgē and thlipsis are not synonymous anywhere else in the New Testament, why would these particular verses be an exception? Woods accuses the prewrath camp of playing a "semantic game". This accusation is very rich coming from the man who interprets apostasia as the rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, but I digress. (See Further Links) 

Woods: "..Romans 2:8-9 says 'tribulations' and 'wrath', those two words can overlap each other, even though they are different words.. Just because they are different words doesn't mean that they are compartmentalized the way that the prewrath rapture crowd have it.. So this kind of a semantic game you hear from a lot of these so-called prewrath rapturists.. That is what I am seeing in Revelation 6. I don't have to see the word 'wrath' right away to understand it's God's wrath because I know there is an overlap of tribulations and wrath when you study Romans 2 verses 8 and 9.. The prewrathers want to keep these things compartmentalized, but Romans 2 verses 8 and 9 won't let you do that. There is a semantic overlap in those words.. ..that overlap is what you do not see acknowledged by the prewrath rapturists, because they try to pretend like the initial judgements are really not done by Jesus, but by Satan or man, even though Jesus is obviously causing them by opening the seven-sealed scroll.. The compartmentalization that the prewrathers want isn't there as neatly and nicely as they make it sound." 

But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath (orgē) for yourself on the day of wrath (orgē) when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath (orgē) and fury (thumos). There will be tribulation (thlipsis) and distress (stenochōria) for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:5-11).

Romans 2:8-9 incorporates two separate pairs of descriptive nouns. There is an overlap between orgē and thumos, and also between thlipsis and stenochōria, but the two clauses are separate. 

orgé (wrath) anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance fury.. {1}

thumos fury, anger, an outburst of passion, wrath. {2} 

thlipsis (tribulation) distress anguish and grief.. {3} 

stenochōria a narrow space, great distress, anguish. {4}

Thlipsis indicates suffering/distress/anguish/grief/persecution/affliction. e.g. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings (thlipsis), knowing that suffering (thlipsis) produces endurance.. (Romans 5:3 cf. Acts 14:2; Romans 8:35; 12:12; Revelation 2:9-10 etc.)

The two separate pairs of descriptive nouns in Romans 2:8-9 are intentionally evocative. Thlipsis and stenochōria communicate additional details regarding the full horrors in store for the unrighteous. Those who obey unrighteousness will be subject to God's wrath and fury i.e. judgement/punishment/vengeance.. (Romans 2:5,8 cf. Psalm 78:49). This punishment will involve or consist of tribulation/anguish/grief/distress.. (Romans 2:9). Paul's various expressions of wrath and tribulation emphasize the terrible fate of the unrighteous in graphic detail.

The context of the great tribulation

Jesus Christ Himself gives the parameters that define the great tribulation in the Olivet discourse. The great tribulation will begin immediately following the abomination of desolation event when the Antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak. How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, (thlipsis) unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.(Matthew 24:15-21)

Immediately after the tribulation (thlipsis) of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.. (Matthew 24:29-31).

As Woods affirms, the 70th week of Daniel is initiated by the opening of the seven-sealed scroll by Jesus Christ. However, the prewrath view does not define this period as the day of wrath as mentioned in Romans 2:5. The wrath of God is described variously as the day of the Lord, the great day of Their wrath, the great and the terrible day of the LORD etc. and is often alluded to as "that day". The day of the Lord is God's direct intervention from heaven. The wrath of God will begin after the tribulation and will follow the cosmic disturbances and the rapture. (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 5:9). 

Andy Woods repeated a comment I have heard him make previously. He remarked glibly that if they are wrong about bible prophecy: "we will have to redraw our prophecy charts." (23:00 mark) He and Tom Hughes were actually making a joke about this! When the time comes, I think it will be a bit more serious than that! (Matthew 12:36; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 2 Timothy 2:15; James 3:1). Frankly, the repercussions for pre-trib rapture teachers will be very serious indeed ~ their charts will be the last thing on their minds. (Luke 17:1). Tom Hughes (Hope For Our Times) regularly parades various prophecy teachers whose prophetic speculations are an unhelpful distraction. For instance, Bill Salus' various "Now" speculations; {5} Lee Brainard's distortion of the early Church Fathers; {6} adulterer Don Stewart who is disqualified; {7} not to mention innumerable Gog/Magog speculations, including Woods' isolated two-phase view. {8} Bible teachers should be preparing believers to stand during the great tribulation, but pre-trib teachers are doing the very opposite by raising false hopes and making jokes! It is likely that many believers may actually fall away because of this wicked teaching! (Matthew 24:10). Tom Hughes and his pre-trib friends are setting up believers for a terrible fall. If anyone is guilty of playing "semantic games" it is Andy Woods and his associates! (2 Timothy 3:13).

1. Strong's Greek: 3709. ὀργή (orgé) -- impulse, wrath (biblehub.com)
2. Strong's Greek: 2372. θυμός (thumos) -- passion (biblehub.com)
3. Strong's Greek: 2347. θλῖψις (thlipsis) -- tribulation (biblehub.com)
4. Strong's Greek: 4730. στενοχωρία (stenochória) -- narrowness of space, fig. difficulty (biblehub.com)
5. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: BILL SALUS: GOG MAGOG DANGEROUS SPECULATIONS (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
6. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: LEE BRAINARD''S PHONY TRANSLATION OF EUSEBIUS DOES NOT PROVE THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE! (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
7. Scattered Sheep: January 20, 2012 Show: My Perspective on Don Stewart (scatteredsheepreport.blogspot.com)
8. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: ANDY WOODS: GOG MAGOG TWO-PHASE VIEW (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

Further Links

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: apostasia: rebellion or rapture? thomas ice pre-tribulation rapture trickery!
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
(bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Rapture (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
(2) 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie) - YouTube

JOE SCHIMMEL BLESSED HOPE CHAPEL: RECAPITULATION VERSES TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2fetze4xBU

Rev Series: God's Grace Through the Book of Revelation

I have never heard Joe Schimmel give any kind of explanation as to why he teaches the recapitulation of the sixth seal, the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl in the book of Revelation. However, in this sermon, he does give a few very questionable reasons.

According to Schimmel, the sixth seal is a picture of the very end of the age i.e.Armageddon. (1:18 mark). However, there is no indication of Armageddon in Revelation 6. We see all the people hiding in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. There is no battle in Revelation 6. The only indication of the wrath of God is verse 17: the great day of Their wrath has come i.e. Their wrath is imminent.  

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place. Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?” (Revelation 6:12-17).

Schimmel: "This is proof that it backs up.. In chapter 7, he shows who is protected and sealed before the great day of his wrath comes so they can stand through it..  First he shows the 144000...  until the 144000, twelve tribes from each of the tribes of Israel are sealed in their foreheads before the trumpets blow.. In that way they won't partake in God's wrath because they will be sealed from it.. If you are a Christian you have already been sealed by the Holy Spirit..  If you are sealed and you are abiding in Christ you are protected.." 

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice. “Salvation to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. (Revelation 7:9-11).

Schimmel's eisegesis of Revelation chapter 7:9-17 is abysmal! According to Schimmel, because the multitude are standing, they are standing during the wrath of God on the earth. Note that the angels are also standing in Revelation 7:11. Schimmel conflates Revelation 7:9 with stand/withstand in Revelation 6:17 which has an entirely different context: "Who is able to stand" (Revelation 6:17 cf. Malachi 3:2). 

The multitude are literally standing in heaven before the throne of God. It is interesting that they are wearing white robes and have palm branches in their hands, which indicates that they have resurrected bodies.

Why would the throne of God be located on earth in Revelation 7:9 when other passages both preceding and following this verse locate the throne in heaven? Revelation 6:16 refers to the One seated on the throne. Heaven is the backdrop to the unfolding events - Revelation 6:14: The sky (heaven/οὐρανὸς) vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up. The wrath of God is orchestrated from the throne of God in heaven. Revelation 8:1-4: When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and they were given seven trumpets. Then another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, rose up before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it to the earth; and there were peals of thunder, and rumblings, and flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

Isaiah's Apocalypse (Isaiah 24-27)

Schimmel continues to demonstrate the folly of taking verses in isolation and out of context. In this case, he quotes Isaiah 26:20 in isolation. Schimmel: "We have been saved from the wrath to come, Amen. So we are not appointed to wrath.. Is there any scripture that kinda uses that imagery of us being protected at that time? (1:26 mark) Schimmel refers to the Passover when the wrath of God passed over the people of Israel due to the blood on their doorposts of lintels. (Exodus 12: 21-27). Undoubtedly there are parallels between the plagues described in the book of Exodus and the eschatological wrath of God in Revelation 15-16. However, Isaiah 26 demonstrates that the chambers are located in heaven and that the resurrection (rapture) precedes the eschatological wrath. In context, the resurrected saints enter their chambers in heaven. (John 14:2). The Lord "comes out from his place" i.e. heaven to administer the wrath. Instead of providing a proof text for his argument, this passage is very problematic for Schimmel's post-tribulation view.  

Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead. Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by. For behold, the LORD is coming out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, and the earth will disclose the blood shed on it, and will no more cover its slain. (Isaiah 26:19-21)

Schimmel's increasingly chaotic sermons are delivered at warp speed with many deviations and errors. I think that someone with little knowledge of the Book of Revelation would have a hard time keeping up with him. Schimmel admitted that he did not open his bible prior to delivering this sermon: "I just meditated and thought about each chapter.. and began to seek the Lord this morning."  (1:13 mark) I would suggest that in the future he does bother to open his bible and prepare properly! 

While it is a good thing to refute the pre-trib rapture, it is pure folly to replace error with error! Schimmel has mistaught the Book of Revelation for years. He seems oblivious to the fact that his eisegesis of the Book of Revelation is likely to cause confusion to those believers who are seeking a right understanding of the rapture. (2 Timothy 2:15).

Further Links 

 

Articles for Posttribulationism to Consider | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
THE REVELATION PROBLEM | 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture
Why Isaiah 26:19–21 Supports the Prewrath View - Ep. 171 | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Joe Schimmel Blessed Hope Chapel (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

ONE CHURCH LEICESTER (FORMERLY TRINITY LIFE CHURCH): DAVID AND SUSAN HIND NARCIGESIS

 (171) One Church Message | David & Susan Hind (4th June 2023) - YouTube

After this I looked and saw a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had previously heard speak to me like a trumpet was saying, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after these things. At once I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne standing in heaven, with someone seated on it. ” (Revelation 4:1- 2).

Context is king!

The Book of Revelation is concerned with a series of prophetic visions of apocalyptic events. Revelation 4:1-2 is a momentous event for John who is about to enter, and then enters, the very throne room of God through an open door. 

Does anyone dare reinvent these verses to suit their own interpretation? Yes, actually David and Susan Hind do! A classic Charismatic/Pentecostal/NAR tactic is to rip specific verses of scripture out of context in isolation and put their own spin on them, effectively misapplying them to some invented scenario of their own making. I have heard this practice described as narcigesis, which is a combination of narcissism and eisegesis. When presumptuous false teachers ignore the context of specific verses and crowbar them into their own small selfish ambitions and projects, they are in rebellion and are deeply offensive to the Lord. These false teachers do not rightly divide the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15). Warnings are given throughout the scriptures not to alter God's word in any way. (Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32; Proverbs 30:6). However in the book of Revelation, the revelation of Jesus Christ, a specific warning is given to potential scripture twisters. 

This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John, who testifies to everything he saw. This is the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near. (Revelation 1:1-3).

The warning at the end of the book of Revelation. 

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19).  

Same old same old 

What follows Hind's "prophetic word" is the same old hype we have heard from him previously. This time Hind attempts to convince us that they have "an open door, a prophetic word (Revelation 22:18-19), and a God plan".  I lost count of the number of times Hind repeated the phrase "open door" during this manipulative presentation. The apparent success of TLC/ONE Church is questionable in spiritual terms. ONE Church is comparable to the infamous monster, Hillsong Church, or more locally, Jesus Army aka Jesus Fellowship (by the way approved by the Hinds'), and also the "shipwreck" All Nations Church (previously at 10 Frog Island). These supposed successful churches are often lethal places where inestimable damage is done to vulnerable people. Success in material terms is not a sign that ONE Church is enjoying the favour of God. In fact, it may be a sign that God has actually given them over to apostasy. I have recorded the catalogue of ungodly decisions made by Hind and his cohorts in previous posts, not least how they managed to obtain lottery funding and worm their way into worldly influence through Adam Simmonds, former Director of Trinity Life Church and disgraced Northamptonshire PCC from 2012-2016. {1} This latest hype from the Hinds' confirms their continued pattern of ungodliness and throws up a number of additional red flags. 

* The folly of employing new "Worship Director" Ashtyn Michael. How they love their titles! (Matthew 23:5-12; 2 Corinthians 5:12). Hind wants to introduce "a new breed of worship leaders", and Ashtyn Michael will be moving from London to become their new Worship Director in August. Michael was previously part of the infamous Holy Trinity Brompton's worship team from September 2016 to January 2018. HTB is the source of the controversial Alpha Course and the so-called "Toronto Blessing" in the UK. In 1998 HTB was accused of using "cult methods", and the Alpha Initiative was accused of creating "a Mickey Mouse religion which is cheap, graceless and addictive". {2} After leaving HTB Michael briefly became a Junior Chef at TGI Fridays. {3} After his one-month stint as a Junior Chef, Michael moved to Leicester in September 2019 to be part of the staff team at Chroma Church (formerly Leicester City Vineyard). This position doesn't seem to have lasted very long either as he appears to have scuttled back to London during the pandemic. {4} It would be interesting to know what salary ONE Church will be paying their new Worship Director, but I think we are unlikely to find out since they do not divulge embarrassing details like individual staff salaries. 

* The folly of endorsing false NAR prophet Simon Braker who spoke at their "Encounter Night" the previous Sunday, May 28th. Braker prophesied:  "As you step back into your physical space, know that it is a prophetic gateway. You will walk into increased levels of influence and anointing and His glory. For God has found you faithful in this last season and He has seen your persistence and your refusal to give up, and His word to you is 'ONE Church arise and shine'". (31:00 mark)  I would advise my readers to do some research on the New Apostolic Reformation of which Braker is very much a part. (See Further Links). 

* Susan Hind's alleged "prophetic" aeroplane dream: "I saw a vision of a classic silver aeroplane and many people from ONE Church getting on it, and in the dream, I got up and declared 'There is a seat for everyone on the plane.'" 

* Four months to harvest?  Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, then comes the harvest’? Look, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see that the fields are white for harvest. (John 4:35). More manipulation of the scriptures from Dominic Yeo (AOG Singapore) who feeds into the Hinds' delusional mindset. {5} On the strength of this verse, Yeo believes that there are four months to harvest. (31:00 mark)

* The folly of prophecy training. It is pure lunacy to attempt to train anyone in the prophetic. At these sessions, self-professed gurus in the prophetic teach people to replace the Holy Spirit with their own imagination. (Ezekiel 13:3; Jeremiah 23:16).

 

* Female pastors. Hind alone was allegedly invited to join TLC (although the way this was handled by Brian Niblock was very strange to say the least). Now, sixteen years later, ONE Church, formerly Trinity Life Church, are paying wages to no less than four members of the Hind family, and the biblical precept that a woman should not have authority over a man is completely ignored. (1 Timothy 2:12). The information given on The Charity Commission's website is that no member of staff at ONE Church earns more than £60,000. I therefore surmise that the Hinds' are at the upper end of the pay scale, and that their combined annual salaries amount to somewhere in the region of just under £120,000. The Hinds' standard of living is probably far higher than most attendees who contribute sacrificially to ONE Church. 

Charities report - 22.1 (charitycommission.gov.uk) 

* David Hind's bizarre motivational presentations. According to Debretts, hand gestures make you look more charismatic: "..sweeping expansive hand gestures convey the idea that you are talking about a large idea or concept." {6} When hand gestures are overdone (as they are in Hind's case), they can actually have a negative effect on an audience because they look rehearsed. It is worth noting that overzealous or exaggerated hand gestures are not only cringeworthy to witness, particularly when coupled with a teenage hairstyle, but they can also suggest that the speaker is insincere. {7} In my view Hind's bizarre motivational presentations exude superficiality and are an indication of someone who is trying very hard to sell a bill of goods. (2 Peter 3:16).

* David Hind (1st May 2022): "This is a fulfillment season, an outbreak season."  Over a year later, according to David Hind, we are still on the cusp of revival. This is the typical mantra of false prophets who constantly repeat that we are on the cusp of something enormous, but that "something" never happens - NAR buzzwords: revival, breakthrough, outbreak, awakening etc.

* End-time revival or apostasy? The revival mantra of the false prophets has no biblical foundation whatsoever. No prophecy of an end-time revival exists in the New Testament. The New Testament prophesies rampant spiritual deception, apostasy, false prophets, lying signs and wonders, birth pains.. and ultimately worldwide spiritual deception under the Antichrist. (Revelation 13:14). We should be very wary of those who consistently prophesy "revival" or "awakening". False prophets tickle itching ears and tell us what we want to hear, not what we need to hear. (2 Timothy 4:3).

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. (Matthew 24:24).

I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; (Acts 20:29).

Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.. (2 Thessalonians 2:3).

Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons.. (1 Timothy 4:1).

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. (2 Peter 2:1).

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1).

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:21-23).

1. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Trinity Life Church Leicester (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
2. Church accused of `cult' methods | The Independent | The Independent
3. Ashtyn Michael - Startup Team - naborly | LinkedIn
4. Ashtyn Michael - EverybodyWiki Bios & Wiki
5. Reverend Dominic Yeo – Assemblies of God Singapore (ag.org.sg)
6. What do your hand gestures mean? • Debretts
7. How to REALLY spot a liar | Daily Mail Online

Further Links

Major errors of Pentecostalism (bible.ca)
(178) What is The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)? with Holly Pivec - The Alisa Childers podcast #16 - YouTube
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Simon Braker (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
Resource: A glossary of New Apostolic Reformation terminology. (churchwatchcentral.com)
AZUSA STREET-Birth of a Lie (scionofzion.com)

JESUS FELLOWSHIP (FORMERLY JESUS ARMY) REDRESS PAYMENT SCHEME

Jesus Fellowship Community Trust

The Jesus Fellowship Redress Scheme offers redress to those who have suffered harm, abuse or adverse experiences within the Jesus Fellowship community. 

If you meet the criteria for the Individual Redress Payment Scheme, you may be entitled to: An award of compensation for the harm or injury suffered, aligned with Common Law Compensation Awards;
A written apology acknowledging what has happened to you, providing acceptance of responsibility and an assurance that lessons of the past have been learned and shared with relevant authorities;
An invitation to meet with a Trustee of the Trust to share your story, if you so wish;
Provision towards the cost of solicitor fees.

Please note: The invitation to meet with a Trustee is not compulsory, nor will it have any impact on any offer made. It is entirely up to the discretion of the person applying.

Who can apply?

Any person who can establish they are/were a Member AND/OR a Dependant of a Member family in the Church and/or Community;

AND

There is evidence to show that on the balance of probabilities they suffered;

Emotional Abuse; and/or
Physical Abuse; and/or
Sexual Abuse; and
Recognised Psychiatric Injury.

AND

The abuse was committed, counselled or instructed by a person at that time engaged in the leadership, management, operation or supervision of the Church and/or Community whether as a Leader of the Church and/or Community or a person for whom the Trust would be Vicariously Liable;

OR

The abuse was committed by an individual invited to stay in a Shared Property by a Member in the circumstances where there were inadequate safeguarding measures in place.

Who cannot apply to the Individual Redress Payment Scheme?

Any person who:has pursued a Civil Claim for compensation against the Trust in respect of the same damage for which they are applying to the Individual Redress Payment Scheme and has received an award of compensation in full and final settlement of that Civil Claim;
has received a criminal conviction in respect of their conduct towards others in the Jesus Fellowship.
was a member of the Covering Authority and/or Apostolic Group of the Jesus Fellowship.


Please note: A person under the age of 18 may apply to the Individual Redress Payment Scheme but they will be required to have a Litigation Friend to support them throughout the process. You can find more information on our FAQ page about applying under the age of 18.

3. How to Apply


Application Form

You can apply online by selecting ‘Apply Online’ or you can download an application form to print, complete and post, both at the bottom of this page.

Information required to apply

1. Identification

If you have engaged with a solicitor you will not need to provide any ID documentation with your application, as identity will be confirmed by the solicitor.

If you are not engaging a solicitor you will be asked to provide certified proof of identity. A full list of accepted ID and how to certify ID can be found on our FAQ page

If you have had a legal change of name either by marriage, divorce or by deed poll since their time in the Jesus Fellowship, then you will need to provide evidence of the name change (e.g. a marriage certificate).

If you wish to send your application via post, please do not send original copies of ID as we cannot return any documents sent.


2. Details of the applicant’s involvement within the Jesus Fellowship

You need to be able to establish that you are/were a Member AND/OR a Dependant of a Member family in the Church and/or Community, in order to be eligible for the Individual Redress Payment Scheme.

To be able to confirm an applicant’s status within the Jesus Fellowship we ask for information regarding Community living and/or their association with the Jesus Fellowship Church.

You will be asked to provide information, if available or known, relating to your time in the Jesus Fellowship Church and/or Community such as:Address history
Community household name/s
Date/s of involvement
Membership status


3. Referee

You will be given the option to provide details of a Referee. This is someone who will be able to confirm membership status in the Church/Community. This is optional, and they will only be contacted by the Scheme Solicitors to help confirm eligibility.


4. Witness Statement

You will need to provide a Witness Statement with your application.

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LEE BRAINARD'S FALSIFICATION OF THE CHURCH FATHERS: IRENAEUS WAS NOT PRE-TRIB!

(160) The Pre-trib Rapture Before Darby, Part 2 | TWIBP - YouTube

Lee Brainard: "In modern dispensationalism, when we use the word 'church' we are referring, not to all the saints of all the ages. We are referring only to the saints basically from the time of Christ forward..[Gonzalez: 'Pentecost forward'] to the saints of this age. And we would put the Old Testament saints and the tribulation saints under the heading of Israel and maybe Gentile proselytes to Israel. It is a very different idea.."

My objection to Brainard's dispensational mindset is that the pre-trib camp has moved the goalposts. The scriptures should dictate our definitions, not dispensationalism or any other tradition. We do not impose our terminology upon the scriptures, rather the scriptures should dictate our terminology. Just because dispensationalists argue that the church is a particular group of believers during a particular time frame does not make it so. For instance, the apostle Paul sometimes refers to "the saints" and at other times he refers to "the church" at specific locations. In other words, when "the saints" are referred to in the book of Revelation, we cannot make the assumption that they are a separate or secondary group of believers distinct from the church. 

To the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colossae" (Colossians 1:1).

To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours. (1 Corinthians 1:2).

Also it [the beast] was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation.. (Revelation 13:7).

Another instance of pre-trib revisionism is the redefinition of the tribulation period. The early fathers referred to the final 3.5 years of the seventieth week of Daniel as "the great tribulation" in agreement with the scriptures. The pre-trib camp has lengthened the tribulation period to encompass the entire 70th week of Daniel i.e. seven years, in order to suit their own agenda.  (Matthew 24:21) (See Further Links) 

Irenaeus - Against Heresies

Brainard gives three examples from Irenaeus Against Heresies that supposedly prove that he taught a pre-trib rapture. Although Irenaeus does make a distinction between the rapture and the second coming in Against Heresies 5.5.1, he indicates a prewrath rapture. In various other passages, Ireaneaus clearly states that the church will face the Antichrist prior to the rapture (see below). 

Against Heresies 5.25.4 And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: “And in the midst of the week,” he says, “the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.” Now three years and six months constitute the half-week. {1} 

Brainard's first example:

Against Heresies 5.5.1 For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him, thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just. Elijah, too, was caught up [when he was yet] in the substance of the [natural] form; thus exhibiting in prophecy the assumption of those who are spiritual, and that nothing stood in the way of their body being translated and caught up..  Wherefore also the elders who were disciples of the apostles tell us that those who were translated were transferred to that place (for paradise has been prepared for righteous men, such as have the Spirit; in which place also Paul the apostle, when he was caught up, heard words which are unspeakable as regards us in our present condition, and that there shall they who have been translated remain until the consummation [of all things], as a prelude to immortality. {2}

Above: Irenaeus makes a distinction between those who have been "translated" (the rapture) and "the consummation [of all things]", but a pre-trib rapture is not a concept that he is aware of. 

Brainard's Second Example:

Against Heresies 5:29:1 And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. {3}

Above: Brainard is recycling an old pre-trib argument by John Hart that was debunked by Alan Kurschner in 2019. Kurschner's response: "Irenaeus states that the church will be caught up 'from this,' which he identifies as the great tribulation (cf. Matt 24:21, 31). So the question then is does 'from this' mean from before it happens or from as it is happening? Pretribs assume without any evidence that it means before it happens. But the statement that Hart carelessly omits constrains the meaning, which identifies “from this” with the period of great tribulation that the righteous will experience: 'For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption [resurrection].' Irenaeus is therefore linking 'the last contest of the righteous' with the period of great tribulation." {4}

In the same chapter Irenaeus continues to compare the time of the Antichrist with the wickedness of Nebuchadnezzar and the resistance of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego (Hebrew names ~Ananias, Azarias, and Misael) in Daniel 3; and also the six hundred years of Noah and the number of the beast. (Genesis 7:6). Irenaeus confirms that this pattern of events will be recapitulated during the time of the Antichrist, culminating in “a cataclysm of fire.. [upon the earth].”

Against Heresies, 5.29.2 And there is therefore in this beast, when he comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire. Fittingly, therefore, shall his name possess the number six hundred and sixty-six, since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels. For Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge came upon the earth, sweeping away the rebellious world, for the sake of that most infamous generation which lived in the times of Noah. And [Antichrist] also sums up every error of devised idols since the flood, together with the slaying of the prophets and the cutting off of the just. For that image which was set up by Nebuchadnezzar had indeed a height of sixty cubits, while the breadth was six cubits; on account of which Ananias, Azarias, and Misael, when they did not worship it, were cast into a furnace of fire, pointing out prophetically, by what happened to them, the wrath against the righteous which shall arise towards the [time of the] end. For that image, taken as a whole, was a prefiguring of this man’s coming, decreeing that he should undoubtedly himself alone be worshipped by all men. Thus, then, the six hundred years of Noah, in whose time the deluge occurred because of the apostasy, and the number of the cubits of the image for which these just men were sent into the fiery furnace, do indicate the number of the name of that man in whom is concentrated the whole apostasy of six thousand years, and unrighteousness, and wickedness, and false prophecy, and deception; for which things’ sake a cataclysm of fire shall also come [upon the earth]. {5} 

Brainard's third example:

Against Heresies 5.31.1 For as the Lord went away in the midst of the shadow of death, where the souls of the dead were, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven], it is manifest that the souls of His disciples also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, shall go away into the invisible place allotted to them by God, and there remain until the resurrection, awaiting that event; then receiving their bodies, and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come thus into the presence of God. {6}

Above: Irenaeus mentions the rapture (resurrection), but once again he does not specify a pre-trib rapture.

Below are three significant passages from Against Heresies that refute the pre-trib rapture.

 

Against Heresies 5.26.1 And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. {7}

Against Heresies 5.30.3-4 It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy [2 Thessalonians 4:1-12], than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved..   But he (Pau1) indicates the number of the name now, that when this man [the Antichrist] comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. {8}

Against Heresies 5.35.1 For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule; in [the times of] which [resurrection] the righteous shall reign in the earth, waxing stronger by the sight of the Lord: and through Him they shall become accustomed to partake in the glory of God the Father, and shall enjoy in the kingdom intercourse and communion with the holy angels, and union with spiritual beings; and [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one. {9} 

Every single Church Father who wrote on this subject taught that the church would face the Antichrist. 

I repeat that pre-trib rapture teachers are nothing less than false prophets who are setting up the church for a terrible fall! (Matthew 24:10-11). Brainard says nothing new - he is simply regurgitating old pre-trib arguments that have been previously debunked. Given the abundant evidence from various church fathers (e.g. The Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermes, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Cyprian), I wonder how Brainard can, in all conscience, dredge up these old arguments and pretend that he is doing "original research". 

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).

I recently heard Andy Woods (another rabid pre-trib rapture teacher) glibly remark that if things do not pan out how they expect them to, they will have to redraw their prophecy charts. Frankly, the repercussions for pre-trib rapture teachers will be very serious indeed ~ their charts will be the last thing on their minds. (Luke 17:1). Are Lee Brainard, Mondo Gonzalez (Prophecy Watchers) and others, prepared to repent and take responsibility for propagating the lethal pre-trib deception initiated by the insane cult leader John Nelson Darby? 

1. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.25 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
2. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.5 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
3. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.29 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
4. Irenaeus Taught that the Church Would Face the Antichrist | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com
5. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.29 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
6. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.31 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
7. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.26 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
8. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.30 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
9. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.35 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)

Further Links

https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-seven-year-tribulation-fallacy.html
On Antichrist's Persecution of the Church: Epistle of Barnabas, Shepherd of Hermas, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Cyprian | Early Church Fathers - Ep. 71 | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Lee Brainard (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: PSEUDO-EPHRAEM TAUGHT PRETRIB - NOT! BY DAVE MACPHERSON (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

LEE BRAINARD'S PRE-TRIB RAPTURE HYPE

(159) The Pre-trib Rapture Before Darby, Part 1 | TWIBP - YouTube

The "ten sayings" Brainard claims to have found in Ephraim to prove a pre-tribulation rapture is duplicitous. Brainard does not provide pre-trib rapture evidence from either Pseudo Ephraim (Ephrem the Syrian) or Eusebius. Furthermore, Brainard's claim that he is doing original research is patently untrue. Extensive research has already been undertaken by bible scholars, and these sources have been rejected as proof texts for the pre-trib rapture. There is no scriptural evidence to support the pre-trib rapture, and furthermore, no early church father claimed that the church would be raptured before the arrival of the Antichrist!

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).

When the early fathers referred to the tribulation, they referred to the "great tribulation" i.e. the final 3.5 years of the seven-year period known as the 70th week of Daniel. (Matthew 24:21). The pre-trib camp has redefined the tribulation period to seven years in order to suit their own disingenuous agenda. (See further links) If Lee Brainard and Mondo Gonzalez (Prophecy Watchers) have any fear of the Lord or any regard for the truth, they really need to stop this nonsense. Pre-trib teachers are nothing less than false prophets who are setting up the church for a terrible fall! (Matthew 24:10-11)

Please also refer to Dave MacPherson's article on this subject written in 2017: 

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: PSEUDO-EPHRAEM TAUGHT PRETRIB - NOT! BY DAVE MACPHERSON (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

Further Links

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Lee Brainard (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com
St. Irenaeus: Against Heresies: Book V - Christian Classics Ethereal Library (ccel.org)

ROB ZINS' CALVINIST TAKE ON 2 PETER 3:9: "GOD IS NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH".

(145) "God Is Not Willing That Any Should Perish," Who Is God Talking About In 2 Peter 3:9? All Or Some? - YouTube

But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,* not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. (2 Peter 3:8-10).

* some manuscripts = on your account.

Rob Zins: "Does God arrive at knowledge? - or to explain the question, - Does God know all  things that come to pass as a result of His willing them to be so, or must He wait for events to happen so that He can look ahead and gain knowledge of events?"  

According to Zins, a consistent theme of Pelagian, Arminian-Evangelical and Roman Catholic theology is the idea that God looks down the tunnel of time to find out, or arrive at, knowledge. In other words, simply stated, "God is unaware until He takes a look". Zins is describing "open theism", a false doctrine that is supported by a relatively small number of Christians. 

Zins seems to assume that all non-Calvinist Christians are "Evangelical-Arminians" - this is a false assumption. Furthermore, he has misrepresented the views of Arminians and Roman Catholics, and in doing so he has compromised his entire argument. There are differing views within the Arminian camp, but generally speaking, Arminians argue for the traditional view that God's foreknowledge is exhaustive and complete, and that the future is certain and is not contingent on human action. 

Nathan Justice: "Arminianism argues for the traditional understanding of divine foreknowledge, which says that God has 'complete and infallible knowledge of the future.'1 This definition of divine foreknowledge is also called 'simple foreknowledge', because Molinists accept God’s complete and infallible knowledge of the future while also affirming God’s middle knowledge. In defending simple foreknowledge, Arminians represent the most common view of divine foreknowledge throughout church history as well as the most common interpretation of the biblical data. In distinction from Calvinism, which holds that God foreknows because He foreordains, Arminius argued that God foreknows future things through the infinity of his essence, and through the pre-eminent perfection of his understanding and prescience, not as he willed or decreed that they should necessarily be done, though he would not foreknow them except as they were future, and they would not be future unless God had decreed either to perform or to permit them." {1}

I am certainly not an apologist for Roman Catholicism, but as far as I can ascertain, the RCC promotes God's infallible foreknowledge and has no idea of God "arriving at knowledge". {2}

Rob Zins: "It is our contention that God knows all things because He wills all things. God does not arrive at knowledge and He leaves nothing to chance."

The struggle to reconcile God's omniscience and human free will is extremely challenging. The scriptures are clear that God is omniscient i.e. He is all-knowing and He knows exactly what will happen. (Isaiah 14:24, 46:10; Psalm 33:11). In other words, God has complete and ultimate knowledge of every decision made by human beings past, present, and future, otherwise, how can we explain bible prophecy? Any philosophical attempt to explain God's omniscience is feeble and inevitably falls short. If the Apostle Paul was among us, I think he would tell us not to lean on our own understanding. (Proverbs 3:5). In one particular sense Zins is correct in that God does not arrive at knowledge and that He knows all things. However, the thorny question remains: What part does human free will play in salvation? Zins' statement"regeneration precedes salvation" is extremely problematic since a number of scriptures suggest that faith precedes salvation. (e.g. John 1:12, 3:15-16; Acts 2:38, 3:19, 21,11:18,16:31; Romans 10:9-10; 1 Corinthians 1:21).

It is impossible to deny the fact that God has created people with the capacity to choose from Eden, and yet there are those who persist in denying human free will. (Genesis 3:3). The appeal in the scriptures over and over again is for all people everywhere to repent. (Acts 17:30; Isaiah 45:22). The futile pursuit of attempting to reconcile God's sovereignty and human autonomy inevitably culminates in the formulation of distorted and divisive false doctrines. (1 Corinthians 1:19; Proverbs 3:5; 1 Timothy 6:20). Perhaps some should learn a lesson from Job! (Job 15:8). Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34 cf. Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 13:12).

Zins gives the so-called "Arminian-Evangelical", or what he also refers to as the "inconsistent Evangelical Arminian" interpretation of 2 Peter 3:8-10. The Lord is not slow of the promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Zins: "Not willing (βουλόμενος) is God's eternal will or desire, and the any is everyone in the world, past present and future. It is all without exception, and the word here come into repentance (χωρῆσαι μετάνοιαν) is salvation."  Zins doesn't accept the "Arminian Evangelical" interpretation of this passage, because, according to him "..they don't take into account the plural 'you'."  Zins makes the assumption that the phrase "toward you" in verse 9, applies to believers "beloved" (αγαπητοι) in verse 8. Does "toward you" apply to the beloved, or does Peter change focus and apply it to a wider audience, i.e. everyone in the world which is also plural? 

The other reason Zins doesn't like the "Arminian Evangelical" interpretation: "If Peter wanted us to believe that any, meaning each and every person in the whole wide world to come to repentance, which is salvation, he would have written something like: 'The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, but is longsuffering toward the world, or towards the cosmos, not willing for anyone to perish but for all to come into repentance.'" With words like any and all, non-Calvinist scholars have concluded that Peter does in fact mean every person in the world. Calvinists still do not accept that all humanity is referred to, even when the scriptures specifically identify the world/cosmos as in John 3:16. 

Zins continues to describe what he considers to be a flawed Calvinist response to the "Arminian Evangelical" view: "The Lord is not slow of the promise as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward you (beloved), not willing (βουλόμενος) for any (of you) to perish, but for all (of you) to come, or to enter into repentance (salvation). Zins doesn't like this interpretation because of the idea that the word βούλομαι is not God's secret eternal will, but rather it is His will of desire (will of command) which can be broken. In other words, βούλομαι is just God's desire. Zins notes that even Calvin takes the view in his commentary that Peter does not refer to the eternal secret will of God, but rather he teaches that it is not God's desire for anyone to perish but for all to come to repentance (salvation). In other words, God's open command (His desire) is that everyone in the world will come to repentance.

Zins goes on to describe what he views as a more acceptable interpretation of this passage from various strong Reformed theologians including AW Pink. "He {Peter} is writing only to the elect because of the word 'beloved'.  'But let not this one thing be concealed from you (elect)..  He is long-suffering toward you (elect), not willing (the eternal will) for any (of the elect) to perish, but for all (of the elect) to come to repentance (salvation). The idea here is that the delay in Christ's return is so that all of the elect will come to salvation.."

Zins' own novel interpretation of 2 Peter 3:8-10: "This is not a salvation passage at all.. it is an experience in salvation, in other words, it refers to diligence and perseverance. 'but let not this one thing be concealed from you beloved (elect), that one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years one day. The Lord is not slow of His promise (regarding His coming, that's the theme), as some count slowness, but is long-suffering (patient in enduring) toward you (referring to the beloved), not willing (either will of desire or eternal will) for any of you (beloved) to perish (ἀπόλλυμι), but for all of you (beloved - his elect) to enter into or come into (chōrēsai) repentance (metanoia). Repentance here is not salvation, it is repenting from being involved in the sins that were so troubling to the reading audience." Zins cites 2 Peter 3:15 as his proof text for this interpretation.

If this passage refers to an experience in salvation rather than an experience of salvation, the false Calvinist belief in once saved always saved (OSAS) is compromised by the word perish (ἀπόλλυμι). Zins fails in two respects; firstly, he misrepresents the "Arminian Evangelical" and RC position regarding God's foreknowledge; and secondly, he suggests that the passage does not refer to salvation, which is completely at odds with the context and the word perish (ἀπόλλυμι).  

Bible Hub: "perish - ἀπόλλυμι = 622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); 'to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction' (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end." {3}

Paul is addressing the "beloved" i.e. believers. When Paul says that God is "patient with you", he is referring to the apparent delay in Jesus' coming. He explains the reason for this in the next clause: not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance ~ The gospel invitation is inclusive and is extended to all people in the world/cosmos. (John 3:16). Jesus' apparent delay in coming is contingent upon the salvation of those who will respond to the gospel and put their faith in Him in the future. This is pertinent to "the beloved" of whom they will eventually become a part. The salvation of these future people will make the number of believers (the bride of Christ) complete in Him. (Matthew 22:9; Luke 21:24; Revelation 19:7). 

After watching Larry Wessels' video on CAnswersTV: (151) Unpopular Bible Doctrines #1: The Biblical God No One Wants To Know - YouTube  I was absolutely horrified. What kind of "God" do Calvinists believe in? Those who teach Calvinism malign Christ's teaching by denying the fullness of the gospel and limiting its application. In doing so they malign the very character of God Himself by denying His goodness and love toward all people. (John 3:16 ). These teachers grieve the Holy Spirit and inevitably cause pain and confusion to the body of Christ. (Ephesians 4:30; Proverbs 30:6). This teaching devastates churches and is very discouraging to unbelievers. How will these men be able to give an account to God for spreading this wicked doctrine? (Hebrews 4:13; James 3:1). 

I have included a link to Mike Winger's video on this subject below because he makes some useful points. Where I disagree with Winger is that he claims that this is not a "gospel issue". Zins himself says that Arminianism is a different gospel. (2 Corinthians 11:4). I agree with Zins that traditional Christianity and Calvinism are different gospels, but of the two teachings, it is my view that Calvinism is the "different gospel".  

1. viewcontent.cgi (liberty.edu)
2. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Predestination (newadvent.org)
3. Strong's Greek: 622. ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi) -- to destroy, destroy utterly (biblehub.com)

Further Links

(153) What does God know? Open Theism, Calvinism and Arminian views analyzed with scripture surveyed - YouTube
(156) Why Regeneration Cannot Precede Faith (Part 1) - YouTube