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Saturday, 8 November 2014

DEREK PRINCE FALSE TEACHER WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING!!!

THE SHEPHERDING MOVEMENT HERESY

Derek Prince (1915-2003), was a well-known Bible teacher and author and founder of Derek Prince Ministries International. He was born to a British family in India and he had an impressive résumé as well as a commanding personality. He was highly intelligent and educated as a scholar of Greek and Latin at Eton College and Cambridge University in England and he held a Fellowship in Ancient and Modern Philosophy at King’s College. He also studied Hebrew and Aramaic, at Cambridge University and the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. His daily radio broadcast, Derek Prince Legacy Radio still broadcasts to audiences around the world and his teachings are regularly broadcast on apostate channels like God TV, TBN and Revelation TV.

Derek Prince has the dubious reputation as one of the founders of the unmitigated disaster known as the Shepherding Movement. From 1970 the so called “Fort Lauderdale Five” (FL5) - Derek Prince, Don Basham, Bob Mumford, Charles Simpson and Ern Baxter (former Campaign Manager for proven false prophet and heretic William Branham) worked together in what they termed “covenant relationship". The Shepherding Movement (also known as the Discipleship Movement) operated primarily in the United States, though the teachings were distributed worldwide through the Christian magazine 'New Wine'.

Right from the outset the FL5 committed heresy by going beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6) by entering into an extrabiblical “covenant relationship” with one another. The New Testament tells us that on conversion believers have entered into the New Covenant with Jesus Christ - by default believers are also in covenant with one with another. The grace of the New Covenant, the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit, and faith are sufficient - we should never add to the scriptures (Deuteronomy 4:2; Proverbs 30:6). In other words, this idea of “covenant relationship” was a direct usurpation of the New Covenant and a denial of the cross of Christ. The fleshly idea of “covenant relationship” (as with other false teachings of Derek Prince) finds its theological precedent in the Old Testament not the New. In their arrogance and pride the FL5 proceeded to inflict their oppressive regime onto unsuspecting believers with disastrous results. Shepherding was initially introduced in 1973 by the FL5 at a Christian Growth Ministries (CGM) conference in Leesburg, Florida; it was then enlarged upon at a further CGM men's gathering in Montreat, North Carolina in 1974. This evil movement focused on a regime of extreme authority and submission within the church which later became known as “heavy shepherding”. Ironically the FL5 were incompetent to address the faults they alleged existed within the Charismatic Movement i.e. “individualism and lack of maturity” due to either their own inability or unwillingness to live and walk by the Spirit (Galatians 5:25-26). James 3:1 tells us with very good reason that few within the body of Christ should be teachers. Many people wonder why the charismatic movement is in its current state of failure and apostasy today – this is because it was derailed from the outset by self-elected leaders who were more interested in appeasing Rome and their own aggrandisement than truly following the Lord!

Bill Ligon gives a graphic example of the abuses of the Shepherding Movement in his book: Discipleship: The Jesus Way (Logos, 1979):

“One teacher stated in an article in 1974 that since the purpose of a true disciple was to carry out the will of Jesus Christ, ‘his own will must be broken.’ To do this, the teacher proposed that the disciple learn to obey his leader as a slave, not ‘knowing the ‘why’ of it.’ Then, he said, the day of recognition would come when his leader would tell him ‘Now you are ready.’ A true disciple, he said, could not be promoted or minister beyond ‘the recognition of his leader.’" (p. 221)

EARLY BETRAYAL: THE FL5 FORMED A SECRET COUNCIL AND AN ECUMENICAL ALLIANCE IN 1974! 

The alleged purpose of this unholy alliance was “to strengthen the shepherding system across the denominational lines.” Later on the Council included Roman Catholics Paul DeCelles and Kevin Ranaghan (People of Praise) and Cardinal Suenens among others:

“In 1974 Martin and Clark teamed up with the ‘Fort Lauderdale Five’ (Bob Mumford, Charles Simpson, Derek Prince, Don Basham & Ern Baxter – former secretary to William Branham), who were the founders of the Shepherding Movement, which later became known as the Charismatic Movement (yes, friends, the Shepherding came first!). They were joined by John Poole, another latter Rain adherent. Together these men established a group for ecumenical renewal.

A council was elected whose existence was kept secret as it was not acceptable at the time for Protestants to ‘labour in the Gospel’ with Catholics. For the fledgling Shepherding Movement the money and power of the Vatican were attractive: for Martin and Clark it was a golden opportunity to begin implementing the ecumenical and Charismatic aspirations of Vatican II”.
http://www.christiandoctrine.net/doctrine/articles/article_00171_the_charismatic_movement_web.htm

In 1977, the FL5 secretly met Cardinal Suenens in the Holy Land where they made a joint covert declaration to work together for the restoration of the unity of the Church. The council agreed to relate directly to Cardinal Suenens and to consult him before planning or implementing projects, evangelism, etc. In other words, the FL5 sold out and capitulated absolutely to Vatican control!
https://www.scribd.com/document/56951091/Meeting-Minutes-of-THE-COUNCIL-1974-1977
The General Council Minutes of The “Ft. Lauderdale” Elders makes very interesting reading! This document was obstructed and suppressed for a long time for obvious reasons: “The fuller picture is how these men wove themselves into a multi-apostasy which includes the RCC, the mother of whores.” http://www.seekgod.ca/gc.htm

In 1983 Derek Prince withdrew from the Shepherding Movement due to “reservations”. He publicly expressed regret about his involvement and the FL5 managed to pull off a classic blame shift onto other leaders down the line. However, Derek Prince had not yet finished inflicting his doctrines of demons onto believers by any means.

1984 ONWARDS

The divisive subject of demonology and deliverance first raised its ugly head in 1971 at the first leaders meeting of the FL5 in Seattle when it caused controversy. After leaving the Shepherding Movement Derek Prince was completely delusional - he said that his ministry “exploded” from 1984 due to God’s blessing! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b390cuOymns

Derek Prince now went all out to inflict more human traditions (Mark 7:8) i.e. the extra biblical teaching of “curses and blessings” wholesale onto the body of Christ in which he applied the curses of Deuteronomy 28 to believers. This teaching is also related to the teaching that Christians can be indwelt by the Holy Spirit and a demonic spirit simultaneously. Much of what is written in Derek Prince’s book 'Curses and Blessing' is simply a regurgitation of false teacher/prophet Kenneth Hagin’s teachings. As a result of these false teachings Derek Prince screwed up many more Christians lives with his faulty theology; his teachings remain a great threat to many believers to this day.

“Derek Prince died in 2003, and now his teachings are being to half the world’s population through a daily radio program called Derek Prince Legacy Radio. However, it’s extremely important to point out that Prince has another legacy. It’s the shattered lives of those who have been spiritually abused by the destructive Shepherding Movement.” http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/01/28/the-legacy-of-derek-prince/

CURSES AND BLESSING: YET A FURTHER DENIAL OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST!

The false teaching that believers remain under a generational curse due to familial or ancestral sin is completely unbiblical. Derek Prince taught that the curses in Deuteronomy 28 are applicable to born-again Christians: "The curses as described will also touch us because of the iniquities our forefathers have committed." In his book ‘Blessing or Curse: You Can Choose’ Prince teaches that Christians need deliverance from these generational curses. However Deuteronomy 28 concerns the Law and was specifically directed to the Israelites:

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree” (Galatians 3:13)

Even in the Old Testament, generational curses are only applicable to those that hate God:

You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:5-6)

The LORD is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation. (Numbers 14:18) (Exodus 20:5; Deuteronomy 5:9; Numbers 14:18)

The Bible says that God will by no means clear the guilty. On the cross Jesus Christ removed all our guilt and the penalty of sin. When we are saved we are pronounced NOT GUILTY - we are JUSTIFIED (Galatians 2:16), WE HAVE RECEIVED THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD (2 Corinthians 5:21). TRUE BELIEVERS ARE BLESSED – THEY ARE DEFINITELY NOT CURSED (Galatians 3:13; Ephesians 1:3). This teaching is foundational to Christianity, it is not secondary.

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. (Ezekiel 18:20)

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. (2 Corinthians 5:17)

Derek Prince: Charismatics Can Have The Holy Spirit And ANOTHER Spirit (he praises false prophet and teacher William Branham). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1S4P7r9LfA

There is no instance in the New Testament of demons being cast out of believers. This teaching also denies the cross and harms believers by putting them into bondage.

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (Galatians 3:1-3) Who has bewitched you? – Paul the apostle refers to these teachings as WITCHCRAFT!

DEREK PRINCE WAS OPERATING IN WITCHCRAFT ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD!

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8) Ironically it would appear that those who deny the cross of Christ by putting believers back under the law through extrabiblical “deliverance ministries” and suchlike are actually the ones who are cursed!

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. (Colossians 2:8)

Derek Prince gave the unbiblical and man centred “rule”: “Eat the fish and spit out the bones.” However, the apostles and the leaders of the early church protected the flock from the wolves and their doctrines of demons. They went all out to give believers the pure milk of the word of God, not a mixture. It is a leaders responsibility to correctly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). Leaders must be faithful men who are able to teach (2 Timothy 2:2; 2:24; 1 Timothy 3:2) - all these qualities were demonstrably lacking in Derek Prince.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump. (Galatians 5:9)

“A little leaven—the false teaching of the Judaizers. A small portion of legalism, if it be mixed with the Gospel, corrupts its purity. To add legal ordinances and works in the least degree to justification by faith, is to undermine ‘the whole.’ So ‘leaven’ is used of false doctrine (Mt 16:12: compare Mt 13:33)”. Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary http://biblehub.com/galatians/5-9.htm

Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. (Mark 9:42)

It absolutely sickens me that any church or Christian organisation should sing the praises of Derek Prince, arch deceiver, heretic and traitor of Jesus Christ.



 

http://www.seekgod.ca/shepherding.htm
http://www.seekgod.ca/gc.htm
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/5/10/112924/148
http://ratherexposethem.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/church-membership-covenants-unbiblical.html

Follow up post: http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/the-curse-of-derek-prince.html

Dear Reader – Do you have questions about Jesus Christ and how to be truly saved?  If so, then please read my earlier post - 'God's Plan of Salvation Through Jesus Christ.'

100 comments:

thruthseeker2014 said...

Derek Prince warned of is unbiblically in some things but also have many Biblically teachings. however best follow only Bible, Gods Word and Christ, Gods Son Trinity in Essence One God of Bible, Gods Word.

God bless you.

Treena Gisborn said...

The things I am warning about with Derek Prince are very very serious. Although he did teach SOME things biblically "A little leaven leavens the whole lump". It is this little leaven that is deadly and which grows to ruin everything. Derek Prince's teachings damaged many people. As a new Christian in the 1980s I was very badly affected by his teachings about demonology. This teaching was generally accepted within the charismatic movement and it took me years to get free from it. I CANNOT accept that just because he taught SOME good things that he was OK. God bless.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this article.
When I listen for the second time his video about Curses, I started to have few negative feelings including his theory regarding Jews and Israel. Many people are simply more ignorant that truly Antisemitic so if these people were all cursed, we could had seen it clearly on a daily basis. Second, we all know Israel is not one of the nicest countries in the world due to the way the government (not the people of Israel) treat people of Palestine. Third, he talks about freeing President Reagan from a curse from Native American. Since we all know American Presidents are all involved in Occultism, why would he does such a favor to an Illuminati ? He should had rather spend his energy on converting him to God's love and the Religion of Jesus. Fourth and last, when you look at the face of this man, he looks severe, slow in his speech, unfriendly, he never smiles, his skin is unhealthy and his eyes are the eyes of a judgmental person. There is something which looks weird.... When people are truly nice, positive, convinced of doing good for other, they all look happy, younger, refreshed, energetic with clear, opened, shinny frank eyes.

SJJJS said...

As an individual who has experienced being demonically possessed and having to be delivered in order to become a Christian, I know with out a doubt that his teachings are spot on and all Biblically based. I can confirm through back sliding that it is possible to be a Christian and be demonically possessed. Having a degree in Theology in this day and age is far more suspicious, as I have seen heavy occultic and freemason involvement in most churches today. I can honestly say the spiritual realm is a very real realm and that if Christians choose to ignore it they are only doing themselves an injustice. Derek Prince might have had dubious involvement within this group but he came out of it and later admitted that it was wrong. We need to bare in mind that we are all on a journey and make mistakes. The man has the purest heart that I have seen, and that is what God looks at.

Treena Gisborn said...

I completely disagree SJJJS. If you were demonically possessed prior to becoming a Christian then that is one thing, but a person who is a Christian and who is and following the Lord cannot be demonically possessed because Christ has set him/her free. The curses blessings teachings of Prince are highly dangerous - they deny the cross of Jesus Christ. "Not many of you should become teachers".... Derek Prince was an arrogant man who presumed that he was called to teach because of his privileged background. He has done a great deal of damage to the body of Christ and put many under bondage.

SJJJS said...

Treena I can understand why you would think that. I'm not sure if you are aware but a demon needs a right to be in an individuals life, so this is how it occurred in my case. I was previously demonically possessed through alcohol and that is how Satan had I foothold in my life. After many years God was very gracious to allow me to get into contact with a lady that delivered me. About a year or so later I backslid into drinking and started noticing drastic changes in my personality again, so that of me being possessed. I went to a Pastor who said it was impossible for me to be possessed again. After that I took my mother to be delivered, and upon praying for my mother I started shaking and felt this being come out of me. I can understand how never having personal experience with possession, a person, could find it hard to believe. I don't expect you to believe me, but am rather curious as to how you feel Derek Prince does indeed lead people to bondage, whereas I would say the opposite is true, in my experience. Um also I need to clarify that I was living a spirit filled life prior to my repossession and demonstrated fruits of the spirit.

Treena Gisborn said...

Hi again SJJJS I can only reitterate that a person who is born again and following the Lord cannot be demon possessed. If a Christian backslides and opens themselves up to the demonic again after being delivered, then it is a very serious matter and I do not rule out demonic possession in these circumstances. I am talking about people who are truly following the Lord as much as they know how to. People like Derek Prince bring doubt and fear through their so called deliverance ministries. Such teachings negate the cross of Christ. God bless you.

Anonymous said...

Actually, you are correct - and also incorrect. A born-again Believer who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit cannot be POSSESSED, since the soul has been sealed by the Holy Spirit. However, you make the mistake of assuming that there can no longer be demonic OPPRESSION; of this we are all still in danger. Possession is of the soul; oppression is of the flesh. An unbeliever can be possessed; a Believer cannot. But remember: our SOULS have been redeemed by Christ; not our FLESH. Therefore, because we are still wrestling with our earth-bound flesh (with which we continue to sin), there is still the possibility of demonic oppression of the Believer. This will always be a problem until the day we receive our new bodies. This does not negate the Cross of Christ; to the contrary, praise God that the Cross is our victory and the Name of Jesus is our Authority in coming against demonic oppressional attacks. I also do not agree with you that a person who backslides can be possessed; this is entirely contradictory to Jesus' statement that "no one can snatch them out of My Hand", and also the Bible's declaration that we have been SEALED by the Holy Spirit. I do, however, present that a backslider can be severely OPPRESSED; since he has given in to the flesh and is no longer utilizing the "weapons of our warfare".
Your statement that, "a person who is a Christian and who is and following the Lord cannot be demonically possessed because Christ has set him/her free" is a dangerous comment, if you are actually talking about OPPRESSION. There are many people who are steadfastly following the Lord who are constantly under attack or oppression. Paul himself said that he suffered from a "thorn in (his) side" - here was a man who was actively serving and suffering for the Lord Jesus Christ, yet was being demonically oppressed.
I am heartbroken that you were so adversely affected by your experiences, and I am thankful that they did not dissuade you from continuing to follow Christ. However, I suspect that you were the victim of poor teachers who did not make the distinction between possession vs oppression in the life of the Believer.
I hope this clarifies things for you, and for your readers. The only way to expose and destroy the lies is to shine Truth upon them.
God bless you all as you continue your respective journeys; I will see you when we all get Home - your brother, Sam

Treena Gisborn said...

I absolutely agree that a believer can be demonically oppressed. I perhaps have not made this clear enough. God bless.

Ken Jones said...

Yep, agree with Anon.

An unsaved person can be both possessed and oppressed.

But if a person gets "properly" born again, then the Holy Spirit is the seal and becomes at one with our human spirit. Problem with modern evangelism is that many times folks just have a religious awakening but have not gone through the process of genuine repentance, and invariably end up backsliders.

Once saved based on genuine repentance and submission to the Lord Jesus Christ, I believe ain't no way a person can become possessed, unless that person wants it to happen, then satan will oblige. After being born again, I believe there are various levels of oppression and we are told to resist the devil with the armour of God, and prayer and he will eventually flee. My experience of people who were involved in satanism or witchcraft, the "deliverance" process can take much time and needs these class of people need constant love and prayer support with lots of encouragement to be built up on the Word of God.

Actually in 39 years of being a born again, spirit-filled Christian, I've rarely seen someone who was fully possessed. These poor souls have completely lost control. Whereas I know some Christians who don't want to give up their demons, such as; pornography, gambling, drugs.

I personally had a problem with a raging anger for years after accepting Christ. It was only after a prolonged period of prayer, standing on the Word of God and resisting the devil that my inner-man became strong enough. These days I get a lot of opportunities to get angry for sure, that's because we are still attacked by the devil, but I pass on those opportunities.

Jim Yost said...

The biggest deception he taught was the 'God's Chosen People' / Christian Zionism charade, which I think is the worst deception to ever infect the body of Christ, simply because of the enormous number of people who have swallowed it.

Cubbawa said...

"Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence," (1 Tim. 2:1-2).

Charles McIntyre said...

Thank you Treena for posting this article.
The Shepherding Movement was off on the wrong foot from the get go:

Matthew 23:

Pharisaism Exposed
8 But do not be called Rabbi (Teacher); for One is your Teacher, and you are all [equally] brothers. 9 Do not call anyone on earth [who guides you spiritually] your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 Do not let yourselves be called leaders or teachers; for One is your Leader (Teacher), the Christ. 11 But the greatest among you will be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be raised to honor.

It's sad to me that people follow in droves "leaders" who create movements incorporating doctrine that conflicts with sound Biblical teaching. Some believe in the doctrine of "generational bondage" for example. Thank you for posting the passage in Ezekiel that clearly destroys this false teaching that misapplies it to believers in Christ.

Treena Gisborn said...

Thank you Charles... God bless you

Anonymous said...

Thanks for this article. The people that warned about the dangers of the Shepherding Movement did not have much insight into why it was wrong at the time. So, I was easily led right into the middle of it. It was "fresh revelation" from God. The very thing the Charismatic Leaders talked about. Words from the Lord, prophecies and words of knowledge were leading Charismatics in all kinds of crazy directions and still are today. So, there are more new movements and more mistreatment of sheep. Derek Prince admitted there was much selfish ambition in the leadership of the movement and he was right. It's a very pride inducing thing to be deemed a leader in a movement that you think is on the cutting edge of what God is doing. It's like being up there with Paul, Peter and John.
It's not like being asked to be a deacon in the local denominational church, no, you are supposedly handpicked by God to direct other people's lives and speak for God to them. So they clamored to get in line to be the next shepherd and practiced the same kind of kissing up you would expect in the corporate world to get the job. The group that I was in has folded, I hope they all have either folded or completely repented of what they taught.

Thomas Mathai said...

Treena, I have been listening to the videotapes of Derek Prince recently. I did not hear about his involvement with the shepherding movement, which is understandable as the teaching was on the deliverance ministry. Before you brand him as a wolf, may I ask you whether you had any opportunity to confront Derek with his false teaching, and if you did, how did he respond?

Thanks!

Treena Gisborn said...

No Thomas I did not confront him. I was a relatively new Christian when he was preaching his generational curses doctrine which confused me greatly.. and it made me very uncomfortable even then. It is only in recent years that I have challenged his teaching. He is no longer with us to challenge. God bless

Gail said...

I was a part of a religious commune from 1968 through 1971. It disbanded (thank the Lord) in 1971. The leader then went to Florida and was a part of the shepherding movement under the 5. This commune leader then continued in his false teaching and I think got worse under the Shepherding Movement. Some of the ex commune members joined him in Ft Lauderdale. My question is can you help me understand if the idea of "spiritual covering" is part of Prince's teaching and it appears to be continued today in some churches but not called Shepherding anymore. I was surprised to learn that some still honor Prince as a sound teacher. Our group used to follow Bob Mumford before he was of the 5. So the Shepherding movement is alive under another name?

Treena Gisborn said...

The word "covering" came about due to the shepherding movement. It was was a complete abuse of power in the guise of submission to elders of the church. It continues today with Mike Breen's 3DM Movement which I have written about extensively on this blog and also on Hubpages. There may be others promoting similar false doctrines, but I am not aware of them at the present time. These 5 men should have left the ministry, since they proved that they were unfit to lead the body of Christ. However Derek Prince continued to do even further damage to the body with his blessings and curses doctrine etc. Mumford continues to this day I believe. Jesus Christ is our true covering. God bless you Gail.

Natalie said...

I haven't read every comment... far too many and I'm unfortunately tired.. so not too sure of what has been said... no true christian who is covered by the blood of the lamb can be possessed by demons, that's just the truth.. but a christian who openly sins walks on the blood of Christ and if they do not repent and ask for forgiveness they open the doors of there souls for spirits to enter, you cannot have the holy spirit and freely sin... do not grieve the holy spirit!! You can however be a church goer, once having been filled with the Holy spirit, sin, and then have spirits in you which do affect your emotions, mind, soul and spirit!! Repent, ask for forgiveness... and be delivered, set free and healed... I can not be bothered going into my own experiences or talking about the experiences of others, but being an active member in ministry I can say this... follow Jesus Christ for he is the son of God and Him only shall you serve. The Holy bible is true.. and do not hate on fellow believers. For we are a family. Take everyone's word with a grain of salt and do not blindly follow anyone else. I happen to like derek prince, but my experiences are always Christ lead and not derek prince lead.. and Jesus does not lead his sheep down dark roads.. if I followed derek prince then maybe I'd be lost... but derek never once said for people to follow him.. derek always told everyone to follow the bible...

Treena Gisborn said...

Thank you Natalie. I would just say that God does tell us to "test the spirits" despite having a big ministry and making claims for themselves as a teacher/prophet. False prophets always tell us that their own teachings agree with the Bible, but I am afraid their own word is not enough. The "blessings and curses" teaching of Derek Prince was Old Testament - it does not agree with the freedom that believers have in Christ i.e. that true believers are blessed and do not have to go back into their old lives and generations looking for problems. Furthermore the Shepherding movement had very bad fruit and was evil. In my opinion Prince caused a lot of heartbreak and harm. God bless.

Kamil said...

Hi Treena

Finding this conversation very interesting and I just wanted to ask you two questions before I make any comments regarding this thread.

1. How many teachings or hours (more or less) of Derek Prince did you listen to before coming to your conclusions?
2. Have any of his teachings personally harmed you or your walk with Jesus Christ in any way and if yes please describe how?

Thank you kindly for your time and God bless you.

Kamil

Anonymous said...

Im amazed that Prince can lead people down the path of demons and possession/oppression (its a distinction without a difference, IMO), when this topic has minimal coverage in the NT. Why? Because the indwelling of the HS gives us new life; not old life, not life hacked about by demons, not life obsessed with the dark side...

Anonymous said...

Your article was well written and factual. A church I attended, the pastor and his wife and his family knew the Princes. Lydia did not agree with Derek's teaching. However, this church actually follows Derek Prince more than God's word. Yes Derek Prince does say some Biblical things and is correct in some Biblical references, however, even Satan knows the Bible and can quote the Bible. He is a master deceiver. Just because someone speaks some truth it does not mean their entire message is from God. On the contrary.

We are told to test all spirits. As you so well said, a little leaven corrupts the whole, you are correct. People who follow Derek Prince completely as if it were gospel are doing the enemy's work for him, by placing people in bondage. Harming them and not freeing them. Confusing them, frustrating them, chaining them up to pain and not setting them free. I found out recently that this church that I no longer go to is now teaching in Bible Study....mind you...IN Bible Study, Derek Prince book Blessings and Curses and with a study guide that I was told but have not confirmed for myself that Derek Says it is ok for a Christian to put a curse on someone. NO it is not. Christ did not go around cursing people he freed them. The enemy puts people in bondage and curses them. Christians are instructed to turn the other cheek. The church I attended, their family manages the Derek Prince ministry as he entrusted them with it before he died. so they are keeping it alive. Sadly, and I did not know how much they worshipped him until a few years ago. I noticed all of our bible studies seemed to focus on Derek's books. And I wanted to learn about the Bible. God's Word. I knew something was wrong, my spirit was not comfortable and I was given a lot of his books to read when I shared some things I wanted prayer for. it was always my fault, I was told I had the spirit of rejection and control as I would not submit to authority and I needed to repent of that. Sadly in the beginning I believed it... And God, our wonderful Father in heaven....kept speaking to my heart showing me this was not what He thought and was not from Him. As you said, generational curses can be simply genetic. We live in a fallen world, no one is to have a perfect body or life. So in our fallen world unfortunately if someone in our family has a cancer gene, or arthritis, or genetic disease the chances of us getting it are pretty good. Is it a curse, not in the sense Derek Says it is, it is genetic. When we get to heaven then we will have perfect bodies. When something bad happens to someone it is not because they are cursed. Bad things happen because we live in a sinful world. We have choices. We can choose to repeat a cycle or we can choose to break a cycle, such as affairs, abuse, etc. Your article is so well written. I agree with what you wrote because I have seen it in action, the damage, it is definitely like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Meaning, when you mix Biblical facts and say what is Biblical then slowly mix in false truths and new teachings that do contradict the Bible ever so subtly......you can lead a thousand if not million people to drink the Kool Aid....and commit suicide, referencing Jim Jones and his followers. Thank you for a well written article, more people need to read this, people need to know what bondage is and what freedom in Christ is and what Christ did on the cross.

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for this well-researched article exposing Derek Prince. I knew he had allegedly repented of the original movement, but was confused when I saw many of his teachings and how they've been used by the New Apostolic Reformation to do exactly what the shepherding movement did 30 years earlier. Same tricks, different generation. I've come out from under the NAR movement, and have created a website exposing what they're doing with this website: www.becarefulhowyouhear.com

God bless!

Gail said...

I posted before, however in re-reading this I caught that in one place you mentioned the
Shepherding movement came before the Charismatic movement. Maybe I misread. The thing is back in 1963 I began to hear about the Charismatic movement in other countries and in the US.

Also, I had several ex members of a commune I was in join the Shepherding movement in Florida. One person was basically a servant to a man in submission to Bob Mumford (this was Dick Key). The people lived in what were called cells.

What is very very sad now though is that it seems some are still caught up in this thinking and seem to avoid admitting what damage it does.
Thank you for your post

Bob said...

I was also a victim of the shepherding movement, almost to the point of suicide. God showed me His love and mercy through Jesus Christ that surpassed all the so called "teaching". My heart broke for them then and now because God gives us new life, the resurrection life of Christ in salvation! There is simplicity in Christ and an over flowing fountain of love and mercy for all who turn to Him. Focus on the Gospel message and let us all follow the Lord Jesus Christ.

Unknown said...

As for demonic oppression of Christians.....Ephes.6:12. Notice that paul is addressing the letter to "The Saints at Ephesis". Linda Blair possession of Christians? No way! But oppression definitly. Agape Richard

Anonymous said...

I'm a new Christian and I am aware of freemasonry in the church amazing to think most are false but I was wondering what you think of Mark Virkler and pastor Paul White jez hope they real

Treena Gisborn said...

Hi Anonymous. I understand that Mark Virkler promotes guided visualization and eastern style meditation so I wouldn't have anything to with that. I don't know enough about Paul White to really comment. I would recommend Joe Schimmel of Good Fight Ministries. You can find him on YouTube. God bless.

paul Chapman said...

Hi guys what is your perception on Walter veith?
As a teacher of gods word.

Treena Gisborn said...

Walter Veith is a Seventh Day Adventist. SDA's believe the Bible PLUS the writings of Ellen G White, their founder, whereas true Christianity depends on the Bible PLUS NOTHING ELSE. The fundamental belief/observance of Saturday as the Sabbath is NOT required in the New Testament.(Galatians 4:10; Romans 14:5; Colossians 2:16). A lot of what Walter Veith teaches is worth listening to and is interesting. However as a SDA he is deceived in certain key areas, so I am wary. We should test everything and hold on to what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). Hope this helps. God bless.

jim (uae) said...

I was an ardent listener to derek prince' teachings. many things i have understood and in line with what the scripture teaches. although i have never believed nor accepted any teachings that are incorrect and also those which does not have clarity. So, i am not following any preacher or teacher, i make it a point to follow what christ and his apostles taught.

I came upon a message of derek prince teaching on some topic which i do not remember. In that he mentioned that he drinks and he gave an example of drinking the previous night to a meeting and was having a hangover. This baffled me as i am from a background which completely forbids drinking. Do you know about this Treena...if you can share it. I am not able to find out. This can open the lid to some to understand how subtle things can creep in and disturb us. Also if you can share your views regarding drinking.

Treena Gisborn said...

I have no information about Derek Prince drinking alcohol Jim. The Bible specifically says "do not get drunk".. Ephesians 5:18; 1 Timothy 3:8.
Other references:
Habakuk 2:15, Genesis 9:21; 1 Thessalonians 5:7; 2 Samuel 11:13; Proverbs 23:20; Proverbs 31:4; Eccelsiastes 10:17; Isaiah 5:11.
There are instances of people drinking wine at the wedding at Cana, and also Timothy was advised to take a little wine. 1 Tim 5:23
It would appear that a little wine is ok, but that in excess, then it leads to debauchery and insensibility which obviously is not good.
I would not make a "law" that alcohol should not be consumed, but at the same time, if we are getting drunk then that would be a serious sin.. drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God: 1 Corinthians 6:10.
So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
(1 Corinthians 10:31; cf. Colossians 3:17).
God bless.

Blessy said...

thank you Treena for that response.
about drinking alcohol, i think the views differ from culture to culture around the world. in some cultures where i am from, it is straight NO. However, i now know the views because i am acquainted with different people of different cultures.

Treena Gisborn said...

Thank you Blessy.. I know that in some circles it is a definite NO NO. It can be a snare to some people, but there is no specific ruling on it in the scriptures. God bless

Alex Hartley said...

I came to this wondering how eccumenacle he was. As you'd said, Miss Gisborn, a little leaven leavens the whole batch. I know that is scripture. Yes, true Christians can be oppressed, but I don't need the leaven to get it out. Delivered from oppressive demons and poisoned with leaven?? That would make no sense to me. Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone.

Alex Hartley said...

I came to this wondering how eccumenacle he was. As you'd said, Miss Gisborn, a little leaven leavens the whole batch. I know that is scripture. Yes, true Christians can be oppressed, but I don't need the leaven to get it out. Delivered from oppressive demons and poisoned with leaven?? That would make no sense to me. Perhaps I should just leave well enough alone.

Treena Gisborn said...

You bring up a very good point Alex - the leaven does not bring freedom, it put us in a worse position still. You would be very wise to leave Derek Prince's teachings well alone. God bless

Alexander said...

Thank you Miss Gisborn. I'd listened to him before, allot, and had made a playlist on YouTube but this time I'd heard him say something that clued me in, then I found your spot which reaffirmed what I knew. I'm greatful.

Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS from 28 May 2016--Responding to your commentary I'll call myself Anonymous Jr. I suspect I know the Tennessee church you're referring to. Despite what seems to be pretty solid teaching from the pulpit, I share the uneasiness of spirit that you experienced. I'm wondering if you confronted anyone in leadership about this "welcoming" of false teaching and what the reaction was? A section of the church book store is practically a shrine to Derek Prince and they also have a lot of books by notoriously false teachers such as John and Lisa Bevere. And a lot of John and Lisa Bevere books are used for small group studies. I was attending one and the first night they showed a video in which John Bevere was gushing over Kathryn Kuhlmann being so filled with the Holy Spirit, that as she walked through a hotel kitchen, everyone in the room fell down. I don't think that's how the Holy Spirit works. He also rambled on about the "feminine qualities" of the Holy Spirit--he's protective and nurturing like a mother(woman). And since we are created in God's image--God is the Father, we get that right? There's the son, right? Who's left? I had never heard this kind of teaching/analysis of what I consider the "co-equal trinity" but it MOMENTARILY seemed logical. But I happen to think that the Father and the Son have the same caring qualities Bevere was attributing to only the Holy Spirit. Incidentally, Lifeway Resources considers some of the teaching of Derek Prince and John Bevere as not fitting within their doctrinal standards and will not carry their works in the Lifeway Bookstores.

Anonymous said...

Oh my Lord above! Alcoholism...come on... you don't have to be possesed to be addicted to substances or porn. Shaking as you prayed? Look suggestive thinking to blame? What about the physiological effects of not drinking=shaking?
God gave us a brain. Please use it logically. You are blessed to have Trina Gisborn to have gone to the trouble to do this research. Theology requires research. You that have studied it should know that.

Tony Conrad said...

You don't have to be possessed but I believe you can open the door to spirits watching porn. These spirits cause the addiction. There are different stages. If you are seriously addicted then spirits would be involved I would say.

namibian said...

I just watched a Video with the title the "How To Apply The Blood". Amongst other dubious statements, in several instances Prince promotes the mystic idea of transubstantiation. This idea is clearly catholic and fits into his ideas of the ecumenism.

I found the session more spooky than scriptural, especially the prefabricated prayers and proclamations I see as sort of proof that he was indeed supposed to install a certain cult.

I see especially people in jeopardy, who are amazed by superstitious acts and longing for "deeper truth".

There is only one Way Truth and Live and we find it simply in the Gospels. If we feel the need of further teaching, we find them all in epistels, especially of the Apostel Paul, where he ironically warns of people like Prince, who bewitches people by enchantments. If we need good interpretation, we have solid commentaries like that of McDonnalds.

However it is up to everyone to proof everything spoken or written by ordinary man.

Phil Tess said...

Just look at his name. What are leaders of demons in the lower heavens called? Dark Princes! His name is Derek(Dark) Prince. Not a coj coincidence.

museofire said...

I think that people such as Derek Prince were looking at the NT and noticing the amount of times spirits/evil spirits/demons were being cast out and realising that there wasn't anything like that percentage in the spiritual ministries they were involved in. This lead to this 'Deliverance' doctrine being forced out, by hook or crook, I believe. Having looked into his biblical backing for it, I can see that the misunderstanding possibly comes from the word 'spirit'. In Greek and Hebrew it is used to describe something that is invisible, but definitely there; like breath or wind etc. Replace 'spirit' (when it says 'spirit of...') with 'unseen substance of' and it seems to be correct. So when a woman with a 'spirit of infirmity' was healed (she was bent over) that 'unseen substance' that made her this way had been removed. It wasn't a little devil but something that there was no understanding about at that time to put into any other words 'spirit of' 'unseen substance of'. In this respect, I think, there was a legitimate reason for the number of 'spirits' being cast out or, as Derek liked to say, ejected. Actual demon possession (of Christians)couldn't be reconciled to the Deliverance doctrine so the made-up word 'demonised' is used. I remember this doctrine going through the church I was in. Many didn't believe it but the leaders pushed it on us anyway, everyone of us having to go through the actual deliverance of whatever was considered to be there (to make use as pure as possible). It was a took us on a tangent away from the gospel, away from a biblical based life.

gabby said...

I had been listening to Derek Prince the last couple of days,and was sadly taken in on some of it. But the one thing I have noticed is all the people on christian tv all seem to be off on something or other. I live where three big ministries from tv are located. The really sad thing is you can not say anything to them about any of this. They will not listen. Some of them you could not even get near to them to say anything one way or another. I went to the church when we first moved here, and the one thing that was done that put up a big ? in me was they would not allow any bible studies out side of the church. All teaching was to come only from the pastor and his group of friends. There were a few of us that wondered at this and had them anyway but we were the exception . Now around here most people do not trust the church and will not go. The bottom line is there are too many people looking for the supernatural instead of the truth and the Bible.

Mamz Tatz said...

I took your advice and checked out Joe Shimmel, until I learnt he supports the Synagogue of Satan that is modern Zionist Israel. You can't out the likes of Derek Prince while commending the likes of Joe Shimmel? They're all dodgy!

Treena Gisborn said...

Have you listened to Joe Schimmel properly Mamz Tatz? God will save a remnant of Israel.. we cannot discount the root. Romans 11. I agree that many of those calling themselves Jews are not what they say. God bless.

Treena Gisborn said...

I suggest that you listen to Joe Schimmel on this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNq8T1nnWRY

God bless.

David Doyle said...

Very good article Treena. How wonderful and powerful is the gospel of Jesus Christ, able to save to the uttermost. To be born of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God is to be filled the Spirit of power, love and a sound mind, not a spirit of fear, to be delivered from the fear of death, translated out of the kingdom of satan and darkness in the kingdom of the beloved Son of God, to be crucified with Jesus and raised into a new life, to become a new creation where all old things are past away and all things have become new and all things are OF GOD, to have God for us, free from condemnation, guilt, shame and the power of Son, to have the works of the devil destroyed in one's life - wow that is the glorious light that God who commanded the light to shine, shines into our hearts so we see and experience first hand the glory of God in the face of Jesus.
Curses and blessings teachings, generational sin teaching, covering teaching, devils in believers teaching are all a far cry from the truth of the gospel and truly are another gospel, another spirit and another Jesus than which the Apostles preached and corrupts minds from the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus. Let us experience what the Apostles did, the work of the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world and the baptism in the spirit with wind and unquenchable fire burning up all rubbish and dross, crucified to the world and world to us, no longer I living but Christ living in us.
If we walk in love there is no occasion of darkness in us and we don't stumble, says the Apostle John. If anyone hates their brother, John says, he is in darkness, walks in darkness, can't see where he is going because that darkness has blinded him. Sin does that. But Being led by the Spirit enables a believer to crucifiy the affections and lusts and put to death fleshly deeds. Hallelujah. As Christians let us avoid legalism (works of law for righteousness) and licentiousness and let the Word of God take deep root into our lives so we are not offended when tribulation or persecution comes.
Blessings abound in This wonderful freedom wherewith Christ has made us from. If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

Treena Gisborn said...

Thank you very much for your comment Dave.
We have witnessed first hand the "fruit" of many of these false ministries. (Matthew 7:20). God bless you.

Jerry Herrera said...

Derek Prince made it very clear that a person/Christian cannot be "Demon Possessed" because that means ownership and was translated wrong from the Greek to English and should have been translated "Demonized" because a demon cannot claim ownership of a person, Christian or non-christian.

Treena Gisborn said...

Derek Prince did not have the right to re-invent God’s word!

How very arrogant of him to say that the KJV has been wrongly translated!

The Greek word in question is ἔχω = I have, hold, possess
Strongs No: 2192 http://biblehub.com/greek/2192.htm

Other examples are Matthew 3:4 – And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair..

Matthew 3:9 – We have Abraham as our father…..

OBVIOUSLY the word ἔχω is a very strong word meaning possession or ownership!

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

Humanity fall into two categories, they either have God as their Father, or Satan as their Father…

When you say that a demon cannot “possess” a non-Christian person, that is entirely unbiblical..

Prince taught that CHRISTIANS need to be “delivered” from demons. A Christian may be oppressed by a demon, but he/she does not need to be “delivered” by some strange occult formula invented by Derek Prince!

The scriptures say: Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (James 4:7).

Treena Gisborn said...

DEMONIAC as in Matthew 4:24, 8:16, 28, 33; 9:32, 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32, 5:15-16, 18; Luke 8:36; John 10:21.

δαιμονίζομαι; 1 aorist passive participle δαιμονισθείς; (δαίμων); to be under the power of a demon: ἄλλος κατ' ἄλλην δαιμονίζεται τυχην, Philemon 1 in Stobaeus, ecl. phys. 1, p. 196; of the insane, Plutarch, symp. 7, 5, 4, and in other later authors. In the N. T. δαιμονιζόμενοι are persons afflicted with especially severe diseases, either bodily or mental (such as paralysis, blindness, deafness, loss of speech, epilepsy, melancholy, insanity, etc.), whose bodies in the opinion of the Jews demons (see δαιμόνιον) had entered, and so held possession of them as not only to afflict them with ills, but also to dethrone the reason and take its place themselves; accordingly, the possessed were accustomed to express the mind and consciousness of the demons dwelling in them; and their cure was thought to require the expulsion of the demon — (but on this subject see B. D. American edition under the word Demoniacs and references there; Weiss, Leben Jesu, book iii., chapter 6): Matthew 4:24; Matthew 8:16, 28, 33; Matthew 9:32; Matthew 12:22; Matthew 15:22; Mark 1:32; Mark 5:15; John 10:21; δαιμονισθείς, that had been possessed by a demon (demons), Mark 5:18; Luke 8:36. They are said also to be ὀχλούμενοι ὑπό or ἀπό πνευμάτων ἀκαθάρτων, Luke 6:18 (T Tr WH ἐνοχλούμενοι); Acts 5:16; καταδυναστευόμενοι ὑπό τοῦ διαβόλου, i. e. by his ministers, the demons, Acts 10:38.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1139.htm

Alex Hartley said...

The word demon isn't in the King James Bible at all. I have my doubts about someone who goes correcting God's inerrent, perfect, word. He isn't smarter than God. It's that simple.

Alex Hartley said...

It would be good to remember that satan himself told truth, but that leaven made it a lie. So just a little arsenic is ok? No.

Unknown said...

SORRY but I disagree with your logic on the meaning of 'Demonized vs Possessed. A demon cannot Possess/own a person they can only come in and dwell when a person invites them in; Christian or non Christian, because they can be cast out by the land Lord Jesus Christ who created us. Christians invite demons in when they get themselves involved Pornography, are prideful, in extra marital affairs, Horoscope's, women's liberation ETC. and believe the Jezebel spirit has crept into the church today.
Here are some examples:
King James Bible (John 5:14)
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
(John 8:11)

"No one, Lord," she answered. "Neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Now go and sin no more."
(Matthew 12:43-45) - (KJV)
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
(2 Peter 2:22) - (KJV)
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
( Numbers 32:23) (KJV)
But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the Lord: and ‘be sure your sin’ will find you out. "peace"

Treena Gisborn said...

Are those involved in pornography, adultery, witchcraft etc. following the Lord? "empty swept and garnished" is not FULL of the Holy Spirit... No one who is walking with the Lord and full of the Spirit can be possessed. No one who is truly born again can be cursed by generational curses. Those who go back into serious sin without repentance are in serious trouble, but would such a person desire deliverance? We are talking about those who are truly born again and following the Lord being deceived into thinking that they are cursed and demon possessed.

Unknown said...

Treena Gisborn___I came to the Lord around 1969 early 1970 thru an Assembly of God Pastor who led me through a sinners prayer after a few months of bible study as I had been raised Catholic all my life prior to that time. I didn't feel anything that night after he led me through a sinners prayer and I had never ever heard the words he ask me that night; "Would you like to receive Christ as your Lord and Savior.
The next day and the following week I knew there was a change in my life, it was as though a great light was turned on, I began to see the world in a different perspective from before. I felt that a huge weight was lifted off me, I could read the Bible with understanding where as before it made absolutely no sense to me. I had a great hunger to read the Bible and eventually through Bible studies at the Church and mentoring by other brethren I came to learn that my sins were forgiven and that I was born again. Now and the time of my conversion God did not deliver me from certain bondage's I had carried into my salvation, such as alcoholism, infidelity and I was still addicted to Marijuana and because I didn't realize at the time I kinda swept it under the rug feeling guilty but never really dealt with those problems, more or less taking God, my salvation and my wife for granted. Years later my wife divorced me and my whole world fell apart and felt God had abanded me, so I went back to my old ways drinking heavily and going back to the night clubs playing music and chasing women trying to fill that void in my. God never turned His back on me nor abanded me, it was the other way around and it was when I came to end of my rope I had nowhere else to look, but up. I cried out to God as a last resort as I contemplated suicide and He heard my cry and delivered me that night from alcohol and drug addiction and the bars and night clubs. I will never look back again Kinda like the parable of the prodigal son. So I'm living proof that a christian can be born again and still fall back into sin and be restored again along with all the consequences and ramifications following those bad choice's. King David was great example also and Samson of back sliding and what it cost them. "peace"

Treena Gisborn said...

Thank you for sharing this Unknown.. I agree that a believer can fall back into sin and be restored. I do not question that this happens at all. You clearly repented of those things when your life went badly wrong - thank God that He has restored you. What I do question is whether a true born again believer, who is following Christ to the best of their ability, can be demon possessed or "demonized" as they put it, and need actual deliverance as in the style of Legion or the boy who threw himself into fire. When a person is demon possessed, the demon takes over their personality and they have no control.. this is not the case with true born again believers. They struggle with the flesh, and they may be oppressed by demons, but deliverance Derek Prince style is unbiblical. I also question whether a true born again believer in Jesus Christ is cursed due to old familial ties. The scriptures tell us that we are a new creation and blessed, not cursed - we cannot be both at the same time! Sanctification is a lifelong journey and we can never expect perfection. We are told to persevere etc. but the bible makes no mention of demon possession in the case of true Christians. Our first authority are the scriptures, not the machinations of Derek Prince who obviously had no knowledge of the subject in which professed to be an "expert", as demonstrated in his inability to recognise demon possession in unbelievers. Princes heavy shepherding errors really do highlight that he was operating in the flesh (his own ideas), and not in the Spirit. He continued to cause problems for many believers in the flesh throughout his "ministry". God bless.

Anonymous said...

Treena, I agree with the broad sweep of what you say in your 18th Dec post, especially with regard to DPM.

Of all the ology's, demonology/angelology is without doubt (imho at least!) the hardest to fully understand. In fact, I am sure it cannot be fully understood (Deut 29.29, Job 9.10, Rom 11.33) this side of eternity. Prince was no fool, and of course he well knew this, and capitalised upon it to his financial advantage. I truly and absolutely abhor his theology with every bent of my body, thoroughly unscriptural.

Clearly, demons were rife during the time of the Saviour's First Advent, and they will be so again as His Second Advent fast approaches. This is a very difficult subject to be dogmatic about, but I am of the opinion that currently Satan is acting alone; Job 1.7 & 2.1-2 seem to point to this. 2 Peter 2.4/Jude 6 speaks of the fallen angels as being presently "chained". 1 Peter 5.8 suggests Satan is at work ALONE, a mighty foe though he is! In Revelation 12.4 we see an event which seems to have happened outside the panorama of time, these fallen angels along with Satan "prevailed not" Rev 12.8. Similarly, I believe the Lord when He "beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" saw this event happen outside of time, yet it WAS at the precise time of His crucifixion that Satan was defeated, John 12.31, and this happened before the beginning of time, Rev 13.8!

I think many are too ready to blame demons for every disaster, forgetting that we are "drawn away of OUR OWN lust" James 1.14. We must remember that we are to be "overcomers", there are an abundance of NT Scriptures that teach this veritable fact!

God bless
Colin Ford.

Treena Gisborn said...

I also abhor Prince's theology Colin. I think he believed he was above the rest of us mere mortals simply because he was from a privileged background and also intelligent... not so! (Luke 10:21)
I wrote a post asking the question: "What are Demons" but I think you will completely disagree with me on this subject.
http://nephilimfiles.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/what-are-demons.html
My view is that the "powers and principalities in spiritual realms" are the fallen angels.. (Ephesians 6:12). I do not believe that fallen angels possess people, but that demons are the earth bound spirits of the hybrid offspring of the Nephilim.
God bless.

Unknown said...

Hi Treena, I totally agree with you that Demons are disembodied spirits of the departed Nephilim/Giants who were conceived when these Angelic beings left their 1st estate in Heaven and took earthly women for wives.
Derek Prince also holds this view, and he does not believe that Demons can possess a person nor a Christian, but they can take up habitation in a person if that person opens up their mind to the Demonic. It can be through Astrology, Terot Cards, Wigi Boards,Harry Potter movies, Transcendental Meditation, Pornography and the like.
God cannot stop Christians from partaking in things that they should not be involved in, just like He couldn't stop the children of Israel from serving the gods of the Canaanite's.
There are weak Christians that get involved in things they shouldn't involve themselves in and end up being controlled by a Demonic spirit.(s) God bless.
"peace"
Jerry Herrera

Treena Gisborn said...

I have written a further post about Derek Prince's false teachings and expanded on the scriptures that refer to "demon possession".
https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/charlatan-derek-prince-demons-and-curses.html

Unknown said...

Hi Treena,
I realize that you seem to loath Derek Prince because you think he is a charlatan and it's really easy to criticize a person's theology and teachings who is dead and cannot defend himself, but if Derek Prince were alive and was able to debate you, he would tear your biased opinions on this subject (demons) to threads. I've listened to all of his teachings about demons and I find no discrepancy in any of his teachings. I have also listened to many other teachers on the same subject such as John Hagee who exorcised a woman that was demonized early in his ministry, Dr. Walter Martin, Bob Larson, Charles Lawson and many others.
Just because you have a few degree's in theological training does not make you an expert on demonology. "peace"
Jerry Herrera
https://www.reverbnation.com/jjhv7

Treena Gisborn said...

If you would care to browse my other posts, you will notice that I have no problem criticizing false teachers whether they are alive or dead. It would be good if you could point out my error scripturally Jerry rather than continually repeating that I am wrong. Please do not even start me off on John Hagee! He says that the Jews do not need to hear the gospel and is in an adulterous marriage! Do you really think we should pay any attention to such a heretic? As for the others you mention, I cannot say that I have heard what their theology is on demonology. One does not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that Prince was a charlatan. I realised this a long time ago before I studied theology in any depth. God bless you.

Unknown said...

Hi Treena, I have browsed through your posts, and you prove nothing except for judging Derek Prince as a heretic and a charlatan.
You haven't mentioned a word about the fact that Derek Prince does not teach "Demon Possession." He said that was a wrong rendering (Greek) in the KJV and should be rendered Demonized, because a person cannot be possessed by a demon because that would mean ownership. Lets start with that. Then I will go scripture by scripture on anything you want to debate with me.
(Remember those who judge; shall be judged by the same measuring rod that they judge others. [Matthew 7:1-5]
"peace"

Treena Gisborn said...

You have not read my latest post then Jerry?

https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/charlatan-derek-prince-demons-and-curses.html

To quote:

Lie No 1: A demon cannot "possess” a non-Christian.

"Prince decided to water-down and reinterpret "demoniac" to "demonize", a verb that is not known in the scriptures.

English demoniac, translates: I am demon-possessed. Definition: I am possessed, am under the power of an evil-spirit or demon.{3} Prince's statement that the Greek does not support "possessed" is completely false. Not only Strong's Greek 1139, but ALL the accepted Greek dictionaries and lexicons define δαιμονίζομαι in exactly the same way:

BAGD “be possessed by a demon”
EDNT, ed. Balz & Schneider, 1:274 “be possessed by a demon”
LSJ “to be possessed by a demon”
Louw-Nida, 1:147 (§12.41) “to be possessed by a demon”
NIDNTT, ed. Brown, 1:453 “be possessed by a demon”
TDNT, ed. Kittel, 2:19 “To be possessed by a demon”
UBS Greek Dictionary “to be demon possessed”

Demonize comes from Medieval Latin: to be subject to the influence of demons.. from Medieval Latin daemonizāre, equivalent to Late Latin daemon demon + -izāre -ize {1} Having borrowed the spurious general category "demonize" from Medieval Latin, Prince taught that non-Christians, and also the majority of Christians are demonized.

1. To have (ἔχω) a demon as in Matthew 11:18; Mark 7:25; 9:17; Luke 4:33; 8:27; 13:11; John 7:20; 8:48–49, 52; 10:20–21.

The Greek verb in question is ἔχω = I have, hold, possess.."

I go into a lot of detail giving other information and examples.

Unknown said...

Yes I just read through it, and there were several scripture verse's that referred to being "Oppressed by Demons" ( Matt. 4:24; 8:16, 28, 33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32) and I believe that is what Derek Prince was teaching when he said that a person cannot be possessed by a demon(s) but can be oppressed by demons which can take up residence in a person. Ref: (Matthew 12:43-45) - (KJV)
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.(John 5:14)

As far as generational curses, God says can go back 3-4 generations. I don't know what Derek Prince meant about 1000 years? Derek Prince has testified to casting out many demons out of many people as well as Dr. Walter Martin and (Bob Larson probably at the top of the list for casting out demons all at church meetings. So unless you have had any experience at casting out demons, I don't think that makes you a critical authority on the subject.
"peace"

Treena Gisborn said...

Matthew 4:24; 8:16, 28, 33; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Mark 1:32 ALL have the Greek verb δαιμονίζομαι English = daimonizomai without exception - as I have explained repeatedly, this verb translates "demon possessed". If you really do prefer Prince's flawed translation to that of ALL the Greek Lexicons, there is no point in us continuing this conversation.

http://biblehub.com/greek/1139.htm

Prince's mistranslation of one little word: δαιμονίζομαι in order to accommodate his faulty teaching is all it took to lead many believers astray! How dangerous it is to add or take away from the Word of God. Proverbs 30:6.

No more of your comments will be published.

I do pray that the Lord gives you insight into this subject.

God bless you

Mike Heath said...

Interesting and important!

Anonymous said...

I have listened to dozens of his sermons and find many to be right on. But find many inconsistancies,i.e, he has many teachings on discerning the spirits and yet called Hagee a man of God and so too Graham. Where is his discernment? Also, he speaks of many healings and dialog with demons and never recorded even one. He also bragged of being a pentacostal and charismatic. Sorry, depart from me.....

Treena Gisborn said...

The problem of truth mixed with error is something that many refuse to acknowledge. Prince did teach SOME true things of course, otherwise he would not have been "credible". However, his destructive influence upon many believers is the unmistakable "fruit" of his ministry. Parts of his teaching are provably unscriptural, particularly demonology and curses. Derek Prince Ministries makes good money .. perhaps this is the reason for compromise at the expense of the TRUTH? 1 Timothy 6:10. It is so important that we are like the Bereans if we are to avoid these wolves. Acts 17:11. God bless.

Anonymous said...

anonymous cont2... He also clearly identified with Assembly of God never calling out blatent heretics: AA Allen, Wigglesworth, Oral Roberts, Hagen, Copeland, Hagee, Marcus Lamb, Swaggert,
Jim Baker, etc.,etc.. I also heard Prince pray "in the spirit" , sounded like FredPrice and Hagen. He talked about healings but never showed any clear evidence, just like Benny, another fake "healer". "Take head that ye be not deceived". For instance he talked about a lady who had knarled fingers from arthritis who was totally healed. It would have been very easy to show us the pictures. Years ago I went to see John Osteen in Houston and walked out 10 minutes into the service because I was so disguested at what I saw. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, another "charismatic".

Anonymous said...

ananymous cont.3... And then there is the Shepherding fiasco. Prince was no doubt an intelligent person but scripture says if you don't come as a little child you cannot enter the Kingdom of God. He often gloated about his credentials and education. I can give you chapter and verse.

CFetters said...

I’m arriving late to the conversation so I hope this is still being monitored for replies.

I recently came across and listened to some of Derek Prince’s material on YouTube. In one particular sermon he describes how he cast out around 20 or so demons from a lady, while another lady wrote down what the demons said as they came out of the other lady. He gave a partial list of the things they said and DP described the things they said as the false teachings that those particular demons were in charge of deceiving people with. DP said the demons said such things as “no bacon, no pork”and “Keeping the Sabbath”. He said these were religious spirits to keep us tied down to legalism. He also listed “rythm” and explained that meant that the demon tries to get us to use sensual music. I was tracking with DP as he explained this, but he quickly also mentioned that two of the demons said “Jesus only”, and never went on to explain what he thought was meant by that.
I’ve been looking for clarification in other sermons he has done or interviews. I can find nothing. I’m wondering if anyone else on here knows the incident I’m referencing and can shed some light on it?

I absolutely believe scripture teaches Jesus only, so this is a little confusing. I also eat pork, and worship on Sunday. I feel like I have three choices here:
1. I can throw out his whole experience in this instance as false.
2. I can believe his experience, but on the flip side meaning that the demons were actually calling out truths they suppress instead of lies they taught
3. There is a reasonable explanation and I haven’t found it yet.

Thanks for any info.!

Treena Gisborn said...

My view is there is only one choice here CFetters. Given that Prince associated with the Roman Catholics and other false teachers, I am pessimistic about his credibility. Even Satan speaks SOME truth in order to appear credible! I cannot rely on other people's "experiences", only what I find in the scriptures. Prince's teaching on curses and demons is not scriptural. God bless.

CFetters said...

Thank you for your discerning answer. Thank you also for speakers no out against false teachers. It can be a hard position to be in, but the true bride will recognize the truth and be appreciative of the warning.

Treena Gisborn said...

God bless you CFetters.

strange fire said...


Have you read the book 'Authentic Fire' by Michael L. Brown? good book and I hope you will read it! it is a book in response to John MacArthur's 'Strange Fire'.

Treena Gisborn said...

No I have not read it. I am not a cessationist SF... I do not have much time for John MacArthur.

Anonymous said...

There is a denial of the trinity movement called Jesus only.

Possession is a very bad translation of the word used in the scripture. Demonized would be the closest term, possession gives a different impression.

Alexander Hartley said...

54 of the best minds over a period of 7 years with the Lord God Almighty leading them and someone thinks they can correct the translators of the King James Bible. They're smarter than God? I don't think so.

Treena Gisborn said...

Our "opinions" mean nothing unless they are supported by the scriptures Anonymous.

"Prince decided to water-down and reinterpret "demoniac" to "demonize", a verb that is not known in the scriptures.

English demoniac, translates: I am demon-possessed. Definition: I am possessed, am under the power of an evil-spirit or demon.{3} Prince's statement that the Greek does not support "possessed" is completely false. Not only Strong's Greek 1139, but ALL the accepted Greek dictionaries and lexicons define δαιμονίζομαι in exactly the same way..

https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/charlatan-derek-prince-demons-and-curses.html

Alexander Hartley said...

If i. I'm correct, look for yourself if you have one, the word "demon" isn't in the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance at all, neither is it in the King James Bible.

Treena Gisborn said...

I have had a look briefly and the KJ version appears to have "devil" rather than "demon". Alexander.

Strong's online concordance:
The Greek is δαιμόνιον
Short Definition: an evil-spirit, demon
Definition: an evil-spirit, demon; a heathen deity.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1140.htm

God bless.

Anonymous said...

Treena, what do you think about that Tennessee church that is so supportive of Derek Prince, John and Lisa Bevere, as well as Joyce Meyer for small group studies and dozens of their books in the church bookstore--but does seem to have at its' heart leading unbelievers to Christ and developing them into devoted followers? The pastor does preach against sin, unlike the seeker friendly and I have heard very little from the pulpit that would concern me doctrine wise.

Treena Gisborn said...

I haven't heard of this church Anonymous. I wouldn't trust anything from the Bevere's, Joyce Meyer or anything supporting Derek Prince Ministries.

Anonymous said...

1 Cor 11:30 "Sleep" Strong's Number: 2749 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
keimai middle voice of a primary verb
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Keimai 3:654,425
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ki'-mahee Verb
Definition
to lie
of an infant
of one buried
of things that quietly cover some spot
of a city situated on a hill
of things put or set in any place, in ref. to which we often use "to stand"
of vessels, of a throne, of the site of a city, of grain and other things laid up together, of a foundation

metaph.
to be (by God's intent) set, i.e. destined, appointed
of laws, to be made,

laid down
lies in the power of the evil one,

i.e. is held in subjection by the devil

NAS Word Usage - Total: 24
appointed 2, destined 1, laid 6, lain 1, lay 1, lies 2, lying 6, made 1, set 2, standing 2
NAS Verse Count
Matthew 3
Luke 6
John 7
1 Corinthians 1
2 Corinthians 1
Philippians 1
1 Thessalonians 1
1 Timothy 1
1 John 1
Revelation 2
Total 24
Greek lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament." These files are public domain.

Previous post is regarding not discerning the body. There are many Christians receiving communion and walking in bitterness and forgiveness. (the word sleep can mean not only death but under the power of the evil one)

-All the diseases mentioned in Deut 28 are manifest in the Church and out of the Church. One that is listed there is inflammation. Medical science has linked inflammation to many disease events.

Medical Dr Strydom has an interesting free teaching online concerning disease and the possible spiritual roots.
https://free2meebooks.wordpress.com/portfolio/healing-begins-with-sanctification-of-the-heart-4th-edition/

If you all did a survey at your Churches you would find diseases there from inflammation.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils.…
— Mark 16:17

I have read that Derek Prince publicly repented and renounced the Sheperding movement. We must be careful and acknowledge this. Also I would like to inquire if you have contacted Derek Prince Ministries with a list of your points of disagreements? If so do you have a copy of their reply?

SCRIPTURE DISEASE SIN

Jer 4:18 Bitterness reaches your heart from your ways and doings

Psalm 31:9 eye inner self body weakened with grief

Rom 8:6 Miseries from sin

Job 5:2 Vexation rage kill foolish jealousy indignation slay the simple

Psalm 31:10 Sorrow sighing strength failed bones wasted due to iniquity

Psalm 6:7 eye dim because of grief

Job 21:23-25 dies in bitterness of soul never tastes pleasure or good fortune

Isaiah 38:15 sleep fled because of bitterness of soul

Luke 13:18 bent over demon of infirmity sickness

Romans 8:6 miseries from sin

Psalm 31:10 bones waste away

Deut 28:65 trembling heart failing eyes disappointment of hope

Psalm 102:23 Weak strength sorrows (shortened days) age prematurely

Psalm 38:18 Full of anxiety because of sin

Jer 30:15 Pain from guilt and sin

Matt 8:16 drove out demons with a word restored to health ALL who were sick

John 12:40 Repenting to be healed

Deut 28:16-61 every disease known listed here under curses (reduced blessings)

Psalm 32:3 Bones waste unconfessed sin

Luke 8:2 evil spirits and diseases

Jer 30:15 pain incurable because of sin

Isaiah 30:15 Pain and sin

Prov 3:8 Health nerves sinews marrow bones (immune system is in marrow)

Jer 4:18 bitterness reaches your heart

Psalm 107:17 Fools made ill transgressions/iniquity

John 12:40 repenting to be healed

Micah 6:13 smitten with deadly wound, sick because of sin

Psalm 69:20 heaviness (depression) sick from broken heart

Psalm 25:18 Behold my affliction (poverty misery) pain from wrong thinking and doing Amp Bible

Mark 9:17 dumb spirit and convulsions


I Corinthians 16:22 – not loving the Lord (Curse)

Revelation 22:3 – no more curse








Jesus_Is_Lord said...

Acts 5:29

So why waste too many words on men?

"Words are like leaves, where they most abound , much fruit of sense are rarely found." - Alexander Pope

Jesus_Is_Lord said...

The Bible is open for everybody to read, so why is not everybody's comments here allowed to be visible for everyone to read? One of the devil's tools is manipulation, ie, just selectively publishing fitting comments is in itself manipulative and self-glorifying.

The Bible is vast enough to search, so we'd better read it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not with the guidance of any limited human mind.

Treena Gisborn said...

1 Corinthians 11:23-44:
23For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. 31But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplinedjso that we may not be condemned along with the world.
33So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— 34if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment. ESV

In context Verse 30 is progressive “many of you are weak and ill, and some have died (κοιμῶνται).” Although κοιμάομαι can mean to literally fall asleep rather than to die, the context and the co-text indicates physical death. All the major commentaries agree on this interpretation.
This passage has nothing whatsoever to do with generational curses. It is to profane the Lord in the act of taking the Lord’s supper without first repenting of known sin. The Lord’s judgement falls on those who take the Lord’s supper in an unworthy manner. Christians are, of course, capable of sinning and falling back into the flesh rather than walking by the Spirit. This does not mean that they have carried over any generational curse since they were cleansed when they believed.


Treena Gisborn said...

Acts 5:27-30

27And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. 30The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

This passage refers to the attempt of the authorities to stop the apostles from preaching the gospel. Nothing more is indicated here Anonymous. You really should look at the whole passage rather than taking single verses or words out of context.

Treena Gisborn said...

"The Bible is open for everybody to read, so why is not everybody's comments here allowed to be visible for everyone to read? One of the devil's tools is manipulation, ie, just selectively publishing fitting comments is in itself manipulative and self-glorifying.

The Bible is vast enough to search, so we'd better read it with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not with the guidance of any limited human mind."

To answer your accusations Jesus_Is_Lord... I do publish most comments when they are polite and relevant to the subject. I do get rather weary of repeating myself and quarrelling about words repeatedly. (2 Timothy 2:14). If I wanted to glorify myself I would certainly NOT be doing this - I would have joined the multitude of false teachers out there! Some of us in the UK do sleep by the way when you are all awake in the US! You should really give time for an appropriate response.

A text without a context is a pretext! Many teachers regularly take scriptures out of context to make a point they decided was true in advance. The Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. John 16:13.

colin said...

One of your contributors above mentions that Derek Prince "publicly repented and renounced the shepherding movement" as if that would somehow atone for all his other manifold unscriptural doctrines!

Briefly, reading through some of the comments above, I note that you have been charged with the spirit of bitterness! (This IS a DPM tactic!) Take comfort, for Satan himself masterfully employed the Scripture of Truth in his attacks on our Lord and Saviour! We should therefore not be surprised that His true servants will likewise come under such attacks! For "the servant is not above his Lord" Matthew 10.34.

The Bible tells us in NO uncertain terms that the "wheat and tares" (true and false believers) will grow together until the harvest (Matthew 13.30) and so it will be.

Keep up the good work and God Bless.

Treena Gisborn said...

Thank you Colin.
If Prince had truly repented he would have stepped down from ministry knowing full well what devastation he had caused to the Body of Christ. However he went on to deceive and put believers into further bondage with his curses nonsense. I find his teachings are loathsome in the extreme. His association with the Vatican says it all!
God bless.

Mike W said...

I have been greatly informed reading this blog as I am looking into Derek Prince and his ministry. I read a book by him some time ago and finished it with an uneasy feeling. I have now picked it up to reread it in light of recent extensive bible study done and find it hard to continue but I will do so. The first couple of chapters have many obvious errors and find it difficult to understand why a man of such education can get it so wrong.
This book is about Israel and the church and it would seem his views are heavily influenced by the framework HE believes and the flavour he gives is that the church is secondary to what Christ has done on the cross and Him building his church.
There is no difference between Jew and Greek?

Treena Gisborn said...

I would have to read the chapter myself and also know what scriptures Prince refers to Mike. What is the title of book that you refer to?

God does not show partiality... Jesus died for the sins of the whole world... Romans 2:11; Acts 10:34; 1 John 2:2.

21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:21-26

God bless

bunny fox said...

Niv is a satanic bible, enough said