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Monday, 10 October 2016

the dishonesty of geoffrey grider 'now the end begins': the lie that the post-tribulation rapture is anti-semitic

Geoffrey Grider, Author and Editor-in-Chief of "Now The End Begins".

Grider's Shocking False Statements: 

"Christians who find the church within Daniel's 70th week have embraced replacement theology and a pernicious form of antisemitism."

"People who, in error, attempt to place the Church in the time of Jacob's trouble can only do it by putting the Church where Israel should be, and as such are guilty of teaching Replacement Theology. They are guilty of stealing promises made to the Jews and Israel alone, and God will have none of that."

"Christians are never 'God’s people' in the Bible, we are His redeemed through the work that Jesus did on the cross at Calvary."

Perhaps Mr Grider should read his Bible again! Christians are indisputably referred to as "God's people" in the New Testament: 

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 2:9-10 cf. Romans 9:25-26)

Grider: "We are 'elect of God' but we are not 'the elect' as that is always a reference to the Jews."

Grider makes a false distinction, making the definite article preceding "elect" exclusively applicable to Israel. The word “elect” simply means “chosen”. There are many references to both Israel and the church as God's elect/his elect/the elect"The elect" are those Gentiles and literal Jews/Israelites who have known, now know, or will know Jesus as Lord, Saviour, and Messiah.{1}

Further verses about the elect: Matthew 24:22-31; Mark 13:20-27; Luke 18:7; 2 John 1:1; Romans 8:33, Romans 11:7; 1 Peter 1:1; 1 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1). 

Jacob's Trouble

Despite being at odds with the multifarious errors of pretribulational doctrine, the post-tribulation view is in complete harmony with the pretribulationism concerning Israel and could never be described as being antisemitic! Post-tribulationists, in agreement with the Apostle Paul, believe that God has not rejected his people (Israel), and that there is a remnant chosen by grace (Romans 11:1-7). Post-tribulationists believe that all the Old Testament prophecies will yet be literally fulfilled in their minutiae; such as in Isaiah 11 and 65 for example. This new angle being pushed by some militant pre-tribulationists is totally dishonest and entirely misrepresents the post-tribulation view! Mr Grider's allegations are totally inappropriate and are very damaging to the Body of Christ. According to Grider, Spurgeon, Ryle, Muller, Newton, Tregelles, and a whole host of other historic pre-millenial believers are now anti-semitic! It was only the post-millennial believers that the charge of "antisemitism" could be directed, but apparently not any more!

Does Jeremiah 30:7 automatically preclude the church from the great tribulation? The faulty dispensational position that the church cannot be present for any of the 70th week of Daniel is a non sequitur fallacy. It is based on the false presupposition that God deals with Israel exclusively after the church (believing Jews and Gentiles) is raptured. However, the evidence that the 70th week is not limited to Israel alone is overwhelming, just as the destruction of the temple and the diaspora was not limited to the Jews (Israel) alone, but most certainly affected believers (Acts 8:1-4, 11:19; James 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1). Where there is a distinction, is that one third of unbelieving Israel will flee from the Antichrist into the wilderness (Petra?) and will be divinely protected for 1260 days/42 prophetic months (Revelation 12:1-6; Daniel 12:1,7,11,12; cf  Matthew 24:15-22). 

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zechariah 12:10; )

Who are the remnant of Israel's seed?

Revelation 12:17 clearly shows that in his frustration at being thwarted in his pursuit of Israel, the dragon (Satan) will make war with "the remnant of her seed".  Who else keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ except Christians?

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (Israel) which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:13-17) 

Grider: "The Bible never calls this time the ‘Great Tribulation’, that is a misquote from Matthew 24 where Jesus says there will be ‘great tribulation’ as an adjective, but not as a definitive noun."  

Nevertheless Jesus Christ does define this time as a period of ..great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Matthew 24:21 cf. Daniel 12:1). The term "great tribulation" is repeated in Revelation 7:14 as a noun phrase. This period is clearly defined twice as "great tribulation" affecting the whole world in the scriptures, so why does Grider split hairs about adjectives and nouns? 

The Pre-tribulation Rapture Deception

Pretribulationism has no scriptural support and actually throws up more problems than answers. Passages which contradict pretribulationism, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 and the book of Matthew, are either ignored altogether or ascribed to unsaved Israel. The absurdity of relegating the entire book of Matthew as having no application to the church, as some do, is dangerous nonsense, leaving believers unprepared for the last days and extremely vulnerable to deception.. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Timothy 3:16-17 cf. Matthew 28:20). As such, and given its history, we can accurately say that pretribulationism is human tradition which nullifies the word of God (Matthew 15:3). J.N. Darby appears to have appropriated the pre-tribulation rapture from the Irvingites and began teaching it circa 1830. It was subsequently popularised by C.I. Scofield via his "reference Bible".  Darbyism, so-called, spread like wild fire throughout the USA, giving rise to the Dallas Theological Seminary and all its off-shoots that we see today in the form of the "Left Behind" series and "Rapture Ready" website and many other such populist outlets. 

The Post-Tribulation Rapture

People can mean different things by the post-tribulation rapture. In my view, the most coherent position is the pre-wrath rapture i.e. the rapture occurs after the sixth seal is opened (Revelation 6:12). In contrast to pretribulationism, the pre-wrath position can be argued consistently from several passages of scripture, including the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, and the Book of Revelation. Paul Dorgan gives a good comprehensive teaching on the pre-wrath view on the link below. Unfortunately, pseudo theologian and chancer Jacob Prasch (Moriel Ministries) has corrupted the pre-wrath position and has muddied the waters in recent times with his intra-seal rapture nonsense (Ezekiel 34:18). Intra-seal is extremely problematic and brings nothing but confusion to the debate.{2}

Post-tribulationist Joe Schimmel of Good Fight Ministries (Left Behind or Led Astray){3}, has a different view to pre-wrath. As the link below shows, Schimmel is demonstrably not anti-semitic!

{1} http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/Revelation/elect.html 
{2} http://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/jacob-prasch-rapture-holy-spirit-and.html
{3} http://www.leftbehindorledastray.com/featured/left-behind-or-led-astray/

Recommended Reading:


  1. Treena, you certainly do know how to state things Biblically and historically and you are immensely readable and fascinating also, and the Christian world needs to be exposed to your honesty, boldness, accuracy, and scholarliness. May you - a veritable British Lighthouse - keep shining in the end-times darkness all around us, shining for our Lord's glory!

  2. High praise indeed Irv.. thank you so much for your encouragement. My head will be getting too big if you say any more.. :) God bless

  3. Grider rhymes with hider - and Geoff has unfortunately been hiding what the Word really says. If the "elect" in Matt. 24 are Jews (for whom the trib days will be shortened), then do we have to imagine that the Great Commission was given only to the Jews? I am reminded of a statement made by Benjamin Newton that appeared in F. Roy Coad's "Prophetic Developments": "The Secret Rapture was bad enough, but this [Darby's equally novel idea that the book of Matthew is on 'Jewish' ground instead of 'Church' ground] was worse."

  4. Quite shocking!
    According to this Grider chap, I am now an Anti-Semite! and also a believer in false 'replacement theology'! This is a new one to me! However did you come across this man's monstrous new doctrine? What an absolute slur on the memories and writings of those godly men that went before us whom you mention above?
    Grider (in common with so many today) jump on the soundbite and shallow theology bandwagon, with no research whatsoever, and spew this puerile garbage out! It is almost as if the datum for their theology is the "Left Behind" series and other such junk!
    Until the present moment, Antisemitism was a charge only levelled at post-millennialists NOT, I repeat NOT, post-tribulational believers/teachers! However can a pre-millennial believer be antisemitic? Such believe God's promises to His covenant people!!!
    Whatever will these "militant" pre-trib false teachers dream up next?
    Off for a cold shower to cool down!
    God bless.

  5. It has been circulating on Facebook recently Colin, and surprisingly, people are "sharing" and "liking" it! Where is the discernment within the Body of Christ? Grider and his ilk obscure God's plans - they take away and add to God's Word without fear of the consequences:

    .. and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:19 cf. Deuteronomy 12:32)

    My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; (Hosea 4:6)

    God bless

  6. Treena, "Now The End Begins" is a website full of nonsense - sensationalism, conspiracy theories, bad theology, etc, etc. I wouldn't take them too seriously!

    1. And of ─║ate it's been nothing more than a platform to sing the praises of Donald Trump, and demonize any of his opponents!

  7. Thank you Anonymous.. I am concerned that some people may take them seriously. There are such lies out there. God bless.

  8. That is correct, Dennis. Many Christians seem to heap undue praise on Trump. As for myself, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him! He is absolutely NO friend of Israel.

    Compared to His 'predecessor' (i put the word in inverted commas because he is NOT yet president, and may not yet be-assassination/vote rigging/Obama declaring martial law etc..) yes! But, if Trump should enter the white house, all of his 'promises' will be so diluted, as to be meaningless.

    Trump has backtracked on so many issues thus far since becoming president-elect: His word is as I have just said; meaningless.

    No doubt there are very interesting times ahead, if I understand my Bible correctly, things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better; when Christ destroys the Antichrist and his anti-christian system by "the brightness of His coming"!
    God bless.

  9. Darby is not the origin of Pre Trib, Irenaeus 130 A.D. to 202 A.D. stood on Pre Trib less than 200 years after Jesus,...So pay attention to the last four lines in section one's paragraph.
    The following is an excerpt from "Saint Irenaeus Against Heresies Complete" sect 5.29


    Chapter XXIX.-All Things Have Been Created for the Service of Man. The Deceits, Wickedness, and Apostate Power of Antichrist. This Was Prefigured at the Deluge, as Afterwards by the Persecution of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

    1. In the previous books I have set forth the causes for which God permitted these things to be made, and have pointed out that all such have been created for the benefit of that human nature which is saved, ripening for immortality that which is [possessed] of its own free will and its own power, and preparing and rendering it more adapted for eternal subjection to God. And therefore the creation is suited to [the wants of] man; for man was not made for its sake, but creation for the sake of man. Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons "as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance-in fact, as nothing; " so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, "There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be." For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

    2. And there is therefore in this beast, when he comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire. Fittingly, therefore, shall his name possess the number six hundred and sixty-six, since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels. For Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge came upon the earth, sweeping away the rebellious world, for the sake of that most infamous generation which lived in the times of Noah. And [Antichrist] also sums up every error of devised idols since the flood, together with the slaying of the prophets and the cutting off of the just. For that image which was set up by Nebuchadnezzar had indeed a height of sixty cubits, while the breadth was six cubits; on account of which Ananias, Azarias, and Misael, when they did not worship it, were cast into a furnace of fire, pointing out prophetically, by what happened to them, the wrath against the righteous which shall arise towards the [time of the] end. For that image, taken as a whole, was a prefiguring of this man's coming, decreeing that he should undoubtedly himself alone be worshipped by all men. Thus, then, the six hundred years of Noah, in whose time the deluge occurred because of the apostasy, and the number of the cubits of the image for which these just men were sent into the fiery furnace, do indicate the number of the name of that man in whom is concentrated the whole apostasy of six thousand years, and unrighteousness, and wickedness, and false prophecy, and deception; for which things' sake a cataclysm of fire shall also come [upon the earth].

    With all due respect, for someone to have the credentials, and schooling You have, I would think You would know who Irenaeus is, and what He taught,...if Your going to throw around statements on the Pre Trib rapture. So, that makes Pre Trib the oldest and first interpretation of the catching away of the church. Hope this helps.

    1. IMO, you are correct. Most of the argument against pre-trib has to do with Darby and Schofield. Stating they "invented" this line of thinking. FALSE. As you so eloquently summarized, pre-trib theology has been around since the early Christian church.

  10. One cannot make a pre-trib case from Irenaeus.

    He clearly says in Book 5 chapter 26 that believers will face the Antichrist.

    Irenaeus in Against Heresies Book 5, Chapter 26

    In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel, telling us that thus it had been said to him: “And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet, but shall receive power as if kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords and the King of kings.” It is manifest, therefore, that of these [potentates], he who is to come shall slay three, and subject the remainder to his power, and that he shall be himself the eighth among them. And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord.

    The above passage indicates that the Antichrist will "put the church to flight". it does not indicate the rapture.
    Scripture alone is our final arbiter of truth.

    I suggest you read Dave MacPhersons article: https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/famous-rapture-watchers-by-dave.html

    God bless.

  11. Anytime you want to debate this publically, just put your skirt on and come find me.

  12. This comment has been removed by the author.

  13. It's interesting when anyone begins researching "Now The End Begins." Since Geoffrey Grider uses the present-tense word "begins" in his organization's title, has the End been beginning ever since his pretrib-pushing presence has been present since it organized in 2009 in his home office in Colorado? Can we really trust an End that begins in 2009 and is still beginning today in 2018? I'm wondering if Grider is in fact an End "insider" and truly knows more than any "outsider" as to just when the glorious Rapture will occur - the rapture that didn't occur after Lindsey's 40-year countdown following 1948, or after Lindsey's later book "The 1980's: Countdown to Armageddon" self-destructed (unless we're still living in the 1980s!), or after the blood moons were eclipsed from the pretrib-promoting pages of prognosticative pretribbers, or the Rev. 12 "stars in the skies" (and in pretrib eyes) which fell from "pretrib heaven" after giving us Virgo vertigo! I will give Mr. Grider one thousand dollars if he or any of his stooges can find even one pretribber among the pre-1830 golden age of NT Greek scholarship (including the KJB scholars) featured in "Famous Rapture Watchers" which Treena published on the 16th of March, 2017!

  14. I see Geoffrey Grider has sunk to a new low there, Treena.....

  15. Geoffrey Grider is obviously deluded Dennis.. I think it would be pointless debating him. Thank you for your comment. God bless.

  16. I have offered to debate Geoffrey a few times and he has never put HIS pants on and accepted. In general pretrib dispies don't debate because they know scripture is not on their side. They are content to spread misinformation and fear about any other view but their own. That's why they block, ban and refuse to sit down and really talk through these issues. They don't love truth. They love to feel comfortable.

  17. The misinformation about pre-trib is truly astounding Pete. I was listening to Jan Markell the other night with Jack Hibbs. They are determined to compound the error! God bless.

  18. Hello everyone. Have any of you gone to the NTEB site lately?

    If you do you will find Mr. Grider is in some sort of trouble now.

    Does anyone know what that may be?

    1. And yet in asking for money from his readers he was being extremely opaque about the nature of his problem. He merely tells you circumstances don't permit him to discuss "fully" ( as if he even discloses anything at all!) his situation.

      A few weeks later, though, when his storm seems to have blown over, he very conveniently removes the article begging for money from the face of his website.... it might still be there but you have to type in the link yourself (if you know what it is, that is)

  19. http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/an-urgent-personal-message-to-my-nteb-readers/

    I do not know Dan. God bless.

  20. Now Geoffrey is using his site to sell cbd oil, and is offering people to get into his business on the ground floor. For a hefty fee, of course. He’s become completely unraveled.

  21. Futurism is the biggest shock of all because it denies the intended context of God's holy word and moves on to believe in the bizarre.

    Since I don't believe in Replacement Theology or worse, in dispensationalism, most Christians attempt to label me as either a Preterist or a Partial-Preterist which for the most part has nothing to do with what I believe although I may at times agree with some of their beliefs.

    I look at the scriptures from an inductive perspective because I prefer to read God's word from God's point of view that simply take on certain beliefs and take sides. My side is God's word while the center of God's word is Jesus Christ, from beginning to end.

    Christ is all and all.


  22. The book of Revelation and certain passages in Ezekiel and Daniel refer to future events in a literal, physical, apocalyptic, and global context. If the scriptures taken metaphorically (unless otherwise stated), then we can come to all kinds of erroneous conclusions.

  23. Pre-Trib, Post-Trib are the same problem IMHO. The more I read of the history around AD70, the more I realize how little most people know about it. Popular history seldom focuses on it, and neither does popular Christian media. Has a film ever been made on the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70? One amazing fact I learned of recently was the hail prophecy of Rev. 16:21. Was this fulfilled during the Roman seige of Jerusalem when white stones weighing around a talent (100lb) were rained on Jerusalem by the Romans? Truly astonishing in a military technological sense, and awfully destructive. And then there were the accounts of Tacitus and Josephus that align literally with the "signs and wonders in the heavens" of Matt. 24."There had been seen hosts joining battle in the skies," wrote Tacitus. History cannot be dismissed in efforts to interpret biblical prophecy. In fact historical, contextual information is critical to understanding texts from any period.

    1. Josephus has some interesting information on the siege of Jerusalem. It is difficult to get accurate records of what actually took place. You may be interested in this video..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5weBG4DtG3w&t=3385s
      I do not endorse David Carrico, but the video is interesting.
      I believe the pre-wrath rapture view is correct.. it makes the most sense to me.
      God bless.