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Sunday, 29 July 2018

SUFFERING FROM DENIALISM: A CHALLENGE FOR SERVUS CHRISTI

Servus Christi's website is http://beginningofsorrows.org/ The name of Servus Christi is Joshua Chavez.

Chavez has written a number of posts about what is known as "secondary separation" aka "guilt by association", implicating Calvinist teachers Paul Washer, John MacArthur John Piper and Justin Peters. Pupit and Pen have responded to these accusations: Demolishing Servus Christi with Two Screenshots, stating "..this is more akin to the game 'Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon,' than sound exegesis."{1}

The doctrine of separation is a dominant theme throughout the scriptures. The prohibition of participation in, and identification with, blatant godlessness and unbelief is an undeniable biblical imperative. This imperative is undoubtedly applicable to fellow believers and compromised Christian ministries: 2 Thessalonians 3:6,14; Romans 16:17 1 Corinthians 5:1–1.

If the above teachers have had some kind of secondary association with ecumenicals, this should not surprise us at all, since their primary error is Calvinism. This means that their biblical understanding of soteriology is skewed on a fundamental level. Until this error is addressed and rectified, then we should expect further errors to follow. The fact that these so called "teachers" are Calvinists, is, by itself, sufficient reason to separate from them, since soteriology is a primary issue i.e. limited atonement quite literally limits the gospel of Jesus Christ! (2 Corinthians 11:4).

I have read some good articles on Beginning of Sorrows, but Chavez does not seem to engage in any kind of deep theological study or discussion, rather he focuses on surface issues and emotional responses.

Unfortunately Chavez's endorsement of Jacob Prasch is misplaced. If only believers would take the time and trouble to study the scriptures as we are exhorted to do, Prasch's error would become obvious. (2 Timothy 2:15).

To reiterate the error of Prasch's intra-seal theory: He erroneously merges three primary passages of scripture incorporating the "birth pangs" motif, namely, the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24:9, 21, 29; Revelation 12 and John 16:20-22.

These three passages illustrate three completely different scenarios:
  • Mathew 24 refers to the beginning of sorrows (birth pains) as worldwide phenomena during the first half of the 70th week of Daniel inflicted by the four horsemen of the apocalypse. (Revelation 6).
  • Revelation 12 refers to the woman, Israel, and the birth of Jesus Christ.
  • John 16:20-22 refers to the birth of the church. John did not primarily address the end times as the synoptic gospels did because he wrote the book of Revelation which confirms Matthew 24.
A text without a context is a pretext for a proof text.

The discussion on Facebook copied below demonstrates Chavez's staunch support for Prasch. In one respect this is admirable, since we should support good bible teachers. However in this particular instance, I do recommend that Chavez undertakes a comprehensive study the above passages in order to "test the spirits", and to "prove all things", rather than summarily rejecting any doubts about Prasch without considering the evidence. (1 John 4:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:21). If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame. (Proverbs 18:13). I do in fact understand Chavez's position. I also supported Prasch for a number of years until the details of intra-seal became problematic for me. A number of Prasch's followers have informed me that they simply "do not understand" intra-seal. This no excuse. We are to pay close attention to doctrines. (1 Timothy 4:16). Even a little study in this area will reveal the flaws in Prasch's convoluted theory.

Why is the intra-seal theory so dangerous? 
  • Intra-seal denies the presence of the Holy Spirit in the world for the entire 70th week of Daniel. Whoever the Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 is, he is not taken out of the way until the mid point of the "week". (Daniel 9:27).
  • Intra-seal denies conviction of sin in unbelievers for the entire 70th Week of Daniel.
  • Intra-seal denies the Gospel of Jesus Christ for this entire seven year period of time. (Revelation 14:6).
  • Intra-seal is disinformation. It is Prasch's attempt to add to the confusion already surrounding the subject of the rapture amongst believers. In my view this is a deliberate ploy to create uncertainty and spiritual blindness as we enter the 70th week.

Prasch is an "impressive" teacher in certain respects. However, when someone teaches error on such an important subject as eschatology, it throws their whole ministry into doubt. (1 Corinthians 5:6).

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19 cf. Proverbs 30:6).

Joshua Chavez, I believe that you are suffering from denialism in that you have dismissed the evidence presented in response to a specific claim by continually demanding some other (unfulfillable) piece of evidence. Obviously I could not present a comprehensive argument against intra-seal on FB comments. Closed-minded, defensive, truth-resistant people often shoot the messenger and hide their head in the sand.. this attitude is definitely not recommended for someone claiming to be in the discernment ministry! I have tried to respond to you graciously, and I hope that you will undertake some serious bible study in this area rather than responding on a superficial level as you did on FB. God bless you.

Servus Christi

· 20 July at 22:24 · 

If you do not already, I highly recommend following/supporting the ministry of Moriel TV and James Jacob Prasch. Balanced and indispensable bible teaching for these days will be found here without compromise. You can find MorielTV on Roku, Vimeo and YouTube. I don't recommend people lightly.

Here is one such excellent teaching about the state of affairs in the church today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFi1ypzIFJU



Why We Left and Why We Came-Hayes First Session-Jacob Prasch Moriel TV is active in the…

Comments

Moriel TV Why thank you good sir


Servus Christi I wouldn't feed someone a meal I wouldn't eat myself. Good "food" to be found at Moriel. Thank you.



I’m new to him but starting listening since I first heard you mention him.


Kristin Kiger Kernan I would add David Nathan, YouTube channel is his name, and Bill Randles at Believers in Grace YouTube channel.


Helen Morris I have been listening to James for the last couple of years and enjoy his commentaries. One of the most solid teachers I have come across.


Leslie Osterthaler Couldn’t agree more, the TRUTH of the WORD is found with this ministry and it’s solid teachings!




Paula Coyle oh my gosh no. Please no. These guys are as bad or worse than the guys you have been exposing. This is incredibly disappointing.




Servus Christi In what way? Please be specific.

Jolyn M Arterbury I love his teachings! Eve n if it is a subject I know a lot about, I always learn something new!

Cal Teichmann I can not support this man. He called Chuck Smith Sr. a true man of God in a video which I watched, which I totally disagree with because Chuck Smith was a heretic, maybe he is ignorant of Chuck Smith's past, but it is easily to find out he who and what Chuck Smith believed in and with whom he supported.
There were other's that I have a problem with that Jacob Prasch supported. I will find the video and link it to you.
But I have agreed with some things he teaches, but I have a problem that he NEVER allows any comments on his video's to correct his false leanings!
So I also can not agree with you on this man....at this time.

Servus Christi Is it your contention that telling someone to repent is preaching works, yes or no?
Define, specifically how Billy Graham "preached works"

Regarding your article... You should be able to voice Chuck's "heresy" in a sentence or two. That you're not doing that is telling. I'm well acquainted with Chuck Smith. State one or two of the reasons he's a heretic.

Treena Gisborn I am surprised you are recommending this intra-seal hooligan who has now decided that Billy Graham was a good evangelist! Where is your discernment?

Heather N Christian Do you think that people who believe something other than a pre-trib rapture are “hooligans”?

Servus Christi Martyn Lloyd-Jones commended Billy's evangelism as well, but not his actions. Was Lloyd-Jones a "hooligan" as well?

Treena Gisborn I am not pre-trib Heather... I suggest you do a bit of study into Prasch's intra-seal theory - it is full of errors!!! https://www.amazon.co.uk/INTRA-SEAL-RAPTURE.../dp/B06X6N2JJT Alternatively I have written several posts on this subject: …See moreManage


amazon.co.uk


Treena Gisborn Servus Christi -- I called him a "hooligan" because he was wearing a t-shirt with "hooligan" plastered all over it when he was teaching his false intra-seal deception at one point! You should do your homework on Prasch. Yes he teaches SOME truth.. but BEWARE. God bless.

Treena Gisborn I fully endorsed Martyn Lloyd Jones stand against Billy Graham. However Billy Graham was not a "good" evangelist since he did not give the whole gospel.. eg. he did not believe in hell/eternal damnation. He was mixed up with the Rockefellers.. https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/.../southern...Manage



Treena Gisborn Heather N Christian I am not pre-trib heather. Like many others I was fooled by Prasch for a long time. God bless.

Cal Teichmann Treena Gisborn Yes anyone that does NOT call Billy Graham a heretic is highly questionable in their discernment and their Gospel.
Thank you for putting this up!

Cal Teichmann Treena Gisborn And Billy Graham's so-called evangelism was a works salvation, anyone who considers themselves a "teacher/Pastor" should be warning the Sheep of ALL who follow a different Gospel and a false Christ!
If they do not then they are NOT lovin…See more

Treena Gisborn I think you are right Cal. I am not a Calvinist.. John MacArthur 's teaching raises some very serious questions. We really do need to "test all things" 1 Thessalonians 5:21. God bless you.

Cal Teichmann Treena Gisborn And you.

You're not pre-trib yet you have an unhealthy obsession with Jacob's NON pretrib view?
You sound confused.
Your comment about him being a "hooligan" is disingenuous. You said it to slander and now you're lying.
So please share with the class what your eschatological view is and why you are so perturbed by Jacob's view.
Keep it brief. We're not interested in you promoting your 78 page leaflet. Summarize, please.

Servus Christi And Cal, for all of Billy's faults, preaching a "works" was not one of them. What are you even talking about?

Cal Teichmann Servus Christi Are you serious Billy Graham's "FAULTS"?!
He was a heretic, he was involved with the Mason's!
He preached a false Gospel, and honored the Pope!
How can you say that?
BG stated on live television the Pope went to Heaven!
Faults! How about false Gospel!

Cal Teichmann Servus Christi By the way BG lead people into the sinners prayer at his so-called Crusades. Then sent them out to various churches which included the Roman Catholic church!
Faults!

Servus Christi I'm asking you to substantiate "works" salvation preached by Billy Graham. Nothing else.

Treena Gisborn Perhaps I have an obsession with the truth SC. Prasch's intra-seal teaching is full of errors. If you don't want to read my material then fine, but I do suggest you do your own research. As I have already explained, he was wearing a t shirt with "Hooli…See more

Treena Gisborn Just to add - Prasch teaches that no-one will be saved during the entire 70th week of Daniel... This is very serious error. Please do your own research.


I asked for a summary you have still not provided. Provide a direct quote from Jacob and why you find it to be biblically in error. This shouldn't be that hard.

Treena Gisborn "There will be no church, no preaching of the gospel and no Holy Spirit during the 70th week of Daniel...." Really SC I suggest you watch for yourself on YouTube. Do you think this is a denial of the gospel? I have done the work, but if people refuse to look at it there is nothing more I can do. I did try to question Prasch about this doctrine, but he became very abusive when I pressed him! God is no respecter of persons... even the mighty JP! God bless.

Treena Gisborn also "and no conviction of sin" I have quoted him verbatim a number of times.. but the same old problem... people love their favourite teachers more than the Word!

Servus Christi You have failed to provide a biblical objection to those statements. An assertion is not an argument.

Cal Teichmann Treena Gisborn I do have a question. What about the Two Prophets that will preach in Jerusalem for 3 yrears, then they will be killed, then resurrected? Is that not preaching?
I am not being antagonistic here a sincere question.
Thank you.

Cal Teichmann Treena Gisborn I actually have found that on Jacob Prasch's youtube videos, no comments are allowed.
I find that very disconcerting.

Treena Gisborn Cal Teichmann Exactly Cal.... What is the point of the two prophets if not to preach the gospel? Also an angel from heaven warns the inhabitants of earth not to take the mark... Rev:14:9 "And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven." Revl :11:13... Clearly people ARE saved during the 70th week. God bless.

Treena Gisborn Prasch "Once Satan fails to prevent the rapture by killing all the believers.. he turns against the Jews." (18:00) This is a blatant reversal of events as they are recorded in the scriptures! (Revelation 22:18). Satan turns against the Jews before the tribulation! (Revelation 12:13-17). Prasch has moved the goal posts significantly here! If the rapture occurs before the flight of Israel, then this would put the timing of the rapture before the mid point of the week, but Prasch has already stated that the rapture will occur between the sixth and seventh seals. Prasch: "The fifth seal begins the persecution of the church... After the rapture God pours out his wrath on the kingdom of Antichrist and refocuses on the redemption of Israel." God's focus goes back to Israel at the mid point of the 70th week when He protects them from the Antichrist. (Revelation 12:13-16; cf. Zechariah 12:10). The Jews flee to the wilderness, and shortly afterwards, in his frustration, the Antichrist turns his attention towards Christians. (Revelation 12:17). God continues to protect Israel for the period of the tribulation (3.5 years cut short). Israel remains on the earth after the rapture during the Day of the Lord i.e. the wrath of God, though obviously they do not experience the wrath with the rest of the world. This blatant scripture twisting just about sums up the ministry of Jacob Prasch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB13W4cvbd8&feature=youtu.be If you really want to listen to thirty minutes of Prasch's scripture twisting this is a good example. Be careful SC Prasch is PROVABLY a false teacher.


youtube.com




UPDATE 1st August 2018: I originally thought that Servus Christi aka Joshua Chavez was delusional in his support for Jacob Prasch/Moriel whom he now works for as an administrator. I have changed my mind. Chavez is just the right person to carry out Moriel's dirty work. Beware!

Tim Wirth: "Hi everyone I want to introduce everyone to Josh Chav. He will help with admin duties as well as Moriel YouTube, Vimeo and Roku. Josh is a great guy and runs a very solid website Servus Christi. I would encourage you to sign up at his site here. I will be on a temporary hiatus from Moriel to focus on my first ministry which is my wife. Make sure you welcome Josh. Moriel, as well as myself, are blessed to have his kind assistance. Thank you for your continued prayers and blessings in Jesus -Tim" {2}

7 comments:

Coota said...

From my stance i can only repeat that those that like the teaching of JC are in error, his eschatology is wrong and his teaching on Eternal Security is also wrong yet he speaks out against OSAS which is strange.

The criticism of Servus from the Pulpit and Pen reference is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Victor Steed

Treena Gisborn said...

Thank you Victor.
Cal Teichmann sums up Servus Christi very well.. we do need to be wary of him I believe. God bless.

"Cal Teichmann I feel Servus Christi needs to apologize for the underhandedness in which he handled some of the people.
Treena Gisborn wrote some of the quotes of JP after SC demand she do so. And after she did he did not even acknowledge it, nor respond.
That is just plainly not the ways of an honest man walking in the ways of the Lord.
His handling of my "private" email correspondence with him and airing it out in public first, without asking me in public was an outright transgression against what our Lord has taught us.
Mat_18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
If he had a problem with it, he should have come to me in private first.
And instead of answering my comment honestly, he chose to side-track the issue and bring up my email, and then label me as abnormal.
This causes me to question why is it acceptable to him to act in such a manner, when Servus Christi criticizes others for the same type of deceitful actions done unto him.
Is that not labelled hypocrite?
I may just warn others to beware of SC double standards and practices.
I am also suspect now, because one of my last emails asked him to please share his testimony and his experiences while walking with the Lord.
I heard nothing..........
This is makes me very suspicious and I no longer trust him.......until he makes it right.
I forgive him, and I pray for him."
https://www.facebook.com/treena.gisborn/posts/10211829482668265?comment_id=10211831115109075&reply_comment_id=10211832477343130&notif_id=1532902167259698&notif_t=feed_comment

Monopode said...

It always amazes me how people become so attached to a particular teacher they cannot listen to bald facts pointing out error. Even the best most godly people can get things wrong. The test is how they react to scriptually backed criticism. Prasch says a lot of biblically sound things but he also adds to God’s words and misuses bible passages as you and others have pointed out. That must be challenged and this Servus Christi person is as scriptually bound to test the spirits as we all are.

We seem to be in a time where we are being divided over eschatology. I think this is because the end isn’t far away and any unsound teaching could derail us. Pre trib adherents will be in a very odd position where they will likely struggle to accept that the man of lawlessness is who he is because they expect to be raptured before he arrives or soon after. Prasch’s teachings about intra seal, the removal of the Holy Spirit and the SEVEN year tribulation (among other things) are such a mixed up mess they only add even more confusion for ordinary believers like me.

Treena Gisborn said...

Thank you for your comment Monopode. You are quite right in that no teacher is above being scripturally tested. I did warn Joshua Chavez/Servus Christi about Prasch's skewed eschatology, but as far as I can tell, he was unable to perceive the truth of the situation. Prasch has blindsided a number of believers. His teachings are confusing and a real hindrance as we approach the 70th week of Daniel as you say. God bless.

Treena Gisborn said...

I have added an update to the main body of this post regarding Joshua Chavez's involvement with Moriel. It is no surprise to me that he is more deeply involved with Moriel than first appeared. Beware!

Mike Evans said...

Hi Treena. I have recently discovered your website and find it very informative and edifying. I was ensnared by charismania for over 30 years before the Lord delivered me. John MacArthur's material was helpful until I realized Calvinism is a false gospel and heard his statements re the Blood of Christ and the mark of the beast. His latest public display of his apostasy is to partner with Rick Warren and others like Roma Downey. I have listened to JP but recognized problems, particularly his ungodly treatment of anyone who attempts to correct him. I like what Josh is doing, but saddened to see his treatment of you and your valid arguments and quotes. Billy Graham is on record stating that people who have never heard or believed the gospel can nonetheless be seen as being in Christ and will be saved. This is a works salvation and in line with Catholic thinking on false religions. Pope Francis produced a notorious video preaching that Buddhists, Muslims and Catholics all worship God. True, but it is the god of this world, not the One who we must come to through the Narrow Way of His Son.
I have given up looking for a church in these evil days but listen to good sermons online and fellowship as best I can. I agree that we must test ALL things by scripture and discern the discernment people (who, if godly, will not object to that). I have found that attempting to help people come out of charismatic error is as hard as trying to reach mormons, Jews and atheists! I was once a Rhema pastor and deeply regret teaching people the grievous errors of Kenneth Hagin and his false Christ. There is a smorgasboard of deception out there. Those of us who have escaped it should be daily grateful to God and pray often to be protected from future snares of deception. Keep up the good work. (P. S. I am an Australian, a country which has much to answer for regarding the output of heresy from cults such as Hillsong)

Treena Gisborn said...

Thank you for your comment Mike. It is good to hear that you have come out of so much error. We are indeed in the last days - we are literally swamped with false teaching.
Just to say.. Servus Christi has mislead everyone about John MacArthur. I hate Calvinism and I am no fan of MacArthur, but the way Servus Christi operates is completely dishonest.
"The annual NRB convention is a trade show for religious broadcasters not a bible conference... Macarthur will not be sharing a platform or partnering with Rick Warren or any other broadcasters.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156677681794804&set=gm.1901817893219313&type=3&theater
God bless