This is why I cannot deal with Bill Randles.. he is totally disingenuous. He clearly did not speak to David Nathan about the Blood of Jesus during the millennium, or in fact any other issue prior to the Q&A session(s)! Incidentally, I am only aware of one Q&A session.
For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. (Mathew 7:2).
Having declared his "epiphany" in December 2018, Bill Randles quickly reverted back to type and continued to drag David Nathan's name through the mud!
JUST THREE DAYS LATER:
"Why There Is Still A Question... (David Nathan)
https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/12/30/why-there-is-still-a-question-david-nathan/?fbclid=IwAR1qlTIN1rXDrrGh7M3NZgJrTr1efL2iDcE8ExILmpLPwHBfPd7UEDfvD6E
Bill Randles:
So what is my problem? Why haven’t I ‘forgiven ‘ him? *
My problem is that David has never explained why he said such an outrageous thing in the first place, and I have never heard him once specifically repudiate it. "In my view, the original issue which triggered all of this boils down to two statements of David Nathan’s;
“ The blood of Jesus will not profit anyone anything in the Millennium” and the twin statement in which Nathan strongly asserts that the blood sacrifices offered in the Millennium are in no way memorial. In other words, they do not point back to the cross of Jesus, as the Lord’s Supper does.
” God the Father did not Create anything”...
Lets go over the facts again shall we?
David Nathan has explained that his statement about the Blood of Jesus was badly expressed and that he was not succinct etc.
David Nathan: "The statement which I should not have made but rather should have sought to express myself very differently and that folk have objected to is, “The Blood of Jesus will not profit anyone, anything in the Millennium.” In using this phrase, which I regret, I was not stating that the Blood of Jesus does not cleanse in all ages as this would be a clear violation of scripture. His blood alone can take away sin and every sacrifice from Genesis 3:21, when the Lord clothed Adam and Eve in tunics of skin to the sacrifices of the Millennium all point to Jesus. In the teaching I kept using the word atone to describe the purpose of the millennial sacrifices in the sense that they do not remove sin but cover sin. I reiterate again that I do not teach nor believe that the sin of an animal or animals can ever remove sin. Not under the Old Testament, not now nor in the age to come. Only the Blood of Jesus can remove sin both now and forever, including the millennium. This is and has always been what I have believed though I did not express it succinctly in the series on Eschatology."
https://www.bolm.co.za/index_htm_files/Response%20to%20Bill%20Randles%20-%20Open%20Letter.pdf
David Nathan: "The bible is absolutely clear that God is the creator. The Father ordained creation. Jesus was the creator in perfect unity with the Father.. not that God the Father was not involved in creation.." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGuCiRUvriM&t=851s
The irony is that in October 2016 both Jacob Prasch and David Nathan mis-taught the millennium at Community Church Devore in Southern California. At this meeting, Jacob Prasch, David Nathan and Marco Quintana were all in complete agreement: After the rapture of the church, the age of grace comes to an end.
Jacob Prasch: "Once the harpazo transpires, the Lord will refocus His primary intentions on the salvation of Israel, although not salvation in the sense that we understand it, not by grace, it will ?? revert back to the Old Testament way of dealing with man and the nations." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNqKXRC8c0&feature=youtu.be
Why has David Nathan been singled out as a "heretic" by Bill Randles, and why has Jacob Prasch, who has also mis-taught the millennium, been excluded from his remarks? (Proverbs 28:21). In the meantime, although he had a complete month to do so, Bill Randles said he "hadn't had time" to examine Prasch's dubious intra-seal teachings including "Counting the Omer", and statements like "the Holy Spirit will not be in the world during the 70th week of Daniel", "Pentecost is reversed", etc. It would take perhaps an hour at the most for an experienced bible scholar/teacher to examine intra-seal and to find that it is utterly false. So what is the agenda?
I left Bill Randles a couple of messages on his FB page today 31st December 2018:
Hi Treena. I was in charismania for 30+ years. When the Lord opened my eyes to the heresy permeating the entire movement from day one, the heretics who began it in 1900 & 1906, the false, pagan nature of the gibberish tongues etc, I repented and left it, renouncing it. I realize that ministers like Prasch and Randles are conservative continuationists who can discern error and excesses in the movement, however I think that if one continues to believe in, pray and speak in'tongues'which I believe to be a counterfeit of the gift of tongues (which evidence indicates ceased in the first century, as the early church fathers taught), one is operating with a spirit of antiChrist which will show itself. Two Word of Faith friends of mine turned on me very nastily of late and they accused me of "denying the Holy Spirit" as I no longer speak in gibberish tongues. I believe you can be saved and blinded by this spirit. This is why ministers such as David Wilkerson could teach sound doctrine on one hand and see false visions and make false prophecies on the other. Just my thoughts as to why someone like Randles can be so ungodly and irrational. God bless
ReplyDeleteI also left charismania some years ago Mike. Although I am not a cessationist, I totally agree with your assessment of "tongues". At best it is gibberish in the majority of cases, and at worst it is demonic. A woman at my former AOG church regularly gave messages in tongues that were actually interpreted - usually by the former pastor. However, many people were wary of her due to the fact there was bad fruit in her life. It seemed to be the "Yvonne Show" most weeks! Whether there is a real gift of tongues I do not know. David Wilkerson was very emotional when he gave his messages. I am not against emotion, but somehow it didn't seem quite right to me - as was proved by his false prophecies.
ReplyDeleteBill Randles has resorted to false witness in order to accuse David Nathan. I am still upset about it. I had hoped for so much more from him.
God bless.
I was only in charismania for 3+ years. Likewise, the Lord too "opened my eyes to the heresy permeating the entire movement from day one", the movement (the Pentecostal error) owes its origins to Azusa Street. I have heard Prasch say on many occasions that it is only the "lunatic fringe" of Pentecostalism that is in error, but what has escaped him (willfully? he endorses false prophets speaking in the first Person) is WHAT it is IN Pentecostal theology that gives rise to the "wild excesses" as he calls them? In this regard, Pentecostalism is analogous to Islam, that is, many are blind to what it is in their religion/theology that causes its converts to perform the wicked acts that they do.
ReplyDeleteThere is a book I read some years ago; "SEARCH FOR CHARISMATIC REALITY:ONE MAN'S PILGRIMAGE" by Neil Babcox that is well worth a read, because the author was a Pentecostal charismatic pastor who came to full realization that he was in serious error, and likewise renounced all his so-called 'gifts'. What is remarkable about this man, is that he was a pastor, fully immersed in the 'gifts', not just a lay person; I don't know of any other charismatic pastor that has publicly renounced Pentecostalism and the 'gifts'.
Pentecostalism is cultic, once you are in, it is very hard to get out, we couldn't do anything without a 'covering'. We were the subjects of verbal abuse, not dissimilar to the language that Prasch is all too fond of using. We had visits, phone-calls, postal-drops, they threw the kitchen sink at us to keep us in! The pastor and an elder marched about our house praying away wicked spirits, yet they were in him! In the end they gave up, they really upset my wife All smiles at first, certainly false, just true control freaks.
Prasch, Randles and others, are too well into the gravy train to give up the Pentecostal error and their false teachings, methinks.
Can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7:18?
God bless.
I have left Bill Randles a couple of messages on his FB page Colin.. I will post them in the main body of text as I can't do so here. Prasch's little gang of bullies seem determined to destroy David Nathan by any means possible, whether fair or foul! The dirty tricks they have used against him are scandalously unchristian. The John Cambridge scam comes to mind again as I am writing this. I have asked Bill Randles to publicly repent and apologise to David Nathan for bearing false witness against him.
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
Treena I am shocked at the comments on this page...Mike accuses me of being "ungodly and irrational", Where is his evidence of any ungodliness? Colin says I am on som kind of a gravy train, and accuses me of errorand you continually accuse me of bearing false witness.Whaat is going on there and when will it end? None of these serious charges have been verified. Like you I came out of the excesses of Chariismania but am not a cessationist by any means.
ReplyDeleteBill we have already communicated about this privately.
ReplyDeleteDavid Nathan does NOT teach that Jesus created everything in isolation. I have now found two videos where he makes his position more than clear. The first is the one I mention in the post, the second is the video I brought to your attention earlier today, and which I quoted from briefly as follows:
'Jesus, Creator and Saviour' dated the 10th of December.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGuCiRUvriM
David Nathan:
1:40 "God created – God in plurality."
..... Genesis 1:26 Let US"
9:45 "Because God is one in unity and purpose - the creation was the will of the Father
... It must have always been in the heart of the Father to create people to worship him in spirit and truth... but the Father did not do the creating, Jesus did by the will of the Father... the Holy Spirit being present possibly was involved in the creation as well.. but the credit for creation and the agent for creation is always biblically Jesus...
11:27 Hebrews 1:2 “’..though whom he made the worlds.’ God made the world through Jesus.. so it was God’s will but Jesus being the creator, the agent through whom God’s will was manifest."
In light of the clear evidence to the contrary, which you have chosen to ignore, I don't know how to describe your continued false allegations against DN. To contradict indisputable evidence to the contrary is dishonest. Prasch has falsely accused and plotted and schemed against DN for months on end now. I notice that we now have Part 2 of the John Cambridge nonsense on Amos Farrell's link! I am amazed that you could participate in such wickedness.
You said that you were not going to enter into further discussion on this matter on FB the other day.. even today when you messaged me you said you would stop all this.
I hope you will consider retracting the accusations and apologise to David Nathan.
I will leave your other remarks for Mike and Colin to answer.
God bless.
David Nathan very clearly says that the Father did not do the creating. He's not even sure whether the Holy Spirit was involved in the creation If DN is sincere in his bid for reconciliation he should immediately take down that video (delete it), because it is confusing many Christians.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGuCiRUvriM
All those involved in this ridiculous dispute agree that Jesus was the agent of creation Thomas. Jesus created at the will of the Father:
ReplyDeleteJohn 1-3: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Genesis 1:2-3 "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
The Spirit of God was present, though the scriptures are not specific about His part in it.
I see no reason for DN to take down his video.
Bill,
ReplyDeleteAlso "I am shocked" at YOUR comments as well, on your latest blog, you write "We have to know that our companions in the ministry are orthodox (James 3:1). I can then only assume, that you must approve of Mr Prasch's railings? For he is currently an unrepentant railer, I believe of the worst kind, especially being a professing Christian.
The "gravy train" is just a figure of speech meaning that once you are on it, it is hard to get off, and it can become nigh on impossible to renounce any false teachings once in print (should you receive such a revelation?), and you are probably doing very well selling your books, DVDs, etc. I have only briefly glanced at your website, and you certainly do have a lot of materials for sale, also the customary DONATE button! You, Moriel and others do preaching tours which may also be very profitable, selling your wares. Now, I have never read any of your works, (I don't intend to) as obviously being a Calvinist cessationist, my theology is diametrically opposed to yours (and Treena's also). It is a fact that Moriel/BOLM & others have a low view of the Reformation, and I believe this to be a VERY great sin.
If any any of us (Calvinist & Arminian) are saved at all, it is only through God's Free Sovereign Electing Grace through the Blood of Christ ALONE, but here I digress.
I am also (as Treena) no apologist for Nathan (for he would have me down as a heretic!) but, nevertheless, the true "villain of the piece" is Prasch, for he seems to have somewhat succeeded in diverting all the negative attention (you being a vehicle) onto his old friend Nathan! Prasch is a known railer! what saith the Scriptures about such an one (1 Cor.5:11)? Granted, Nathan has said things that he ought not to have said, but what of Prasch's MANIFOLD errors?
Imho you made a grave mistake taking your "The Menelaws are my friends" posting down.
May we all grow in grace and truth?
God bless.
I agree with you Colin. Could not agree with you more regarding Jacob Prasch's behaviour! He is a railer and does deflect from his conduct.
ReplyDeleteBill has become a flying monkey for Jacob. Amos Ferrell's interview with Bill. Ian Huxham and John Haller was quickly reposted by Moriel to use these men to vindicate Prasch and condemn Nathan. The interview never once touched on Jacob Prasch's actions in the matter.
Bill said on his blog that Jacob had been confronted numerous times about his behaviour and he would not listen and that he needed to repent. Has he repented Bill?
Bill your wavering and duplicity have damaged your reputation. People are looking for men of God to practice what they preach.
Where not the Pharisees the authority on scripture yet set theemselves above
it
Sadly the actions of certain men who say they care about doctrine and the people of God show by their actions and words they only seem to care about their own egos.
When Jacob Prasch's words, life and actions are compared with scripture you have to conclude the man is unregenerate.
Proverbs 22 v 24-25 - Do not associate with a man given to anger; Or go with a hot tempered man, Least you learn his ways and find a snare for your self.
I do not know if David Nathan and the Menilaws are any of the things that Jacob has accused them of, but even if they are it still does not justify his attitude and behaviour.
I listened to Jacob at one time but stopped about 3 or 4 years ago. I went to a couple of his conferences years ago but saw cultic tendancys even then.
I am at this time posting anonymously because we have friends who are suffering cognitive dissonance regarding Jacob. We keep taking them back to scripture but I know it isn't easy for them to accept the truth of what he is.
If these brothers in authority truly love him they will shut the door on him until there is true godly repentance. I like Colin wonder if they excuse it because they have something to lose?
1 Corinthians 5 v 11-13, Bill it is not about feelings but about what does God say! It isn't zeal but narcissistic rage that Jacob is displaying.
Is there anyone over the years he has not had a swipe at?
I came across the phrase "flying monkey" for the fist time the other day Anonymous. For those who do not know what the phrase means, the following ten minute video will be helpful. The narcisist describes Prasch down to a tee!
ReplyDeleteNarcissistic Bullying - The Flying Monkey Mob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Fv9-maU-s
Prasch has a great deal of spiritual knowledge, he is very adept at scripture twisting and deceiving others. This leads me to think that we are dealing with spiritual entities. Right now Prasch is telling everyone he has finished with the subject of DN and that he hasn't even mentioned it for weeks.. and yet he is the instigator of all this mayhem and destruction. Bill Randles does need another "epiphany" I feel - this time based on reality!
Ephesians 5:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
God bless.
Hi Colin. Great to read your post. I will look for that book.
ReplyDeleteI was a charismatic, Word of Faith pastor for 26 years. A graduate of Kenneth Hagin's RHEMA Bible Training Center, which I now know to be a Bible-based cult. Things such as Kenneth Copeland embracing the Pope and manifestations such as those at Toronto and Todd Bentley's meetings disturbed me. I asked the Lord to show me what was of Him and what was not of Him in my life and He graciously opened my eyes. I was nearly physically ill to learn I had been in an aberrant form of Christianity which has arisen in past ages (Montanism in the 2nd century, Irvingites in the early 19th century), but which is now the most public face of professing Christianity. I believe you can get saved in this movement but are then fast-tracked to a false Christ and spirit which can lead one to apostasy. There are also legions of false converts in this movement. Coming out of it is difficult. I have lost many friends and cannot seem to reach those trapped in it who I still keep in touch with.
Like many ex-chatrismatics, I nearly fell into the false gospel of Calvin, which is free of mysticism but a Gnostic cult which contains much sound teaching which shrouds its gross heresies and perverse representation of God and Christ, who are respectors of persons and will billions to be damned according to John Calvin, who has much in common with Jim Jones. I am not in church but value internet ministries such as Treena's and CreationLiberty.com (Christopher Johnson), Discerning the World and YouTube pastors such as Mike Hoggard and Charles Lawson. This does not mean I endorse everything said by all concerned for we are all fallible, but I benefit greatly from these ministries, sense their sincerity and love for Christ and endeavour to test all things by the scriptures. We need to be discerning all things in these evil days and fellowship as best we can with those of a like mind. JP is a sad case of a discernnent minister who has shown himself to be a railer and a deceiver who has sown strife and discord amongst the brethren. No one but Christ should be placed on a pedestal! I, like many, have learned this lesson the hard way. My best to you.
Mike,
ReplyDeleteI did write a book review on www.amazon.co.uk, an extract;
On page 77 the author thanks God for the charismatic movement, believing it is of God, (I would add, such is the sovereignty of God!) he says this in the vein of its evangelistic fervour (which the reviewer would heartily agree). If it were not for false movements/teachers I may never have come to faith and repentance in the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.
I would rather not discuss TULIP, for myself, I see it very clearly taught in the Bible, that doesn't mean that I agree with everything Calvin taught, even you agree with him on cessationism!
God bless.
I don't know if you have read Bill Randles comment above Mike? He addresses a question to you.. "Mike accuses me of being "ungodly and irrational", Where is his evidence of any ungodliness?" Do you have anything to add to what has already been said?
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
Is it not ungodly to bear false witness and side with the accuser of the brethren? I gathered pretty swiftly when these anti-David Nathan videos began that it was nothing other than a campaign of vilification. After reading the viscous emails sent to Deborah at DTW, I was not surprised that a similar spirit showed itself towards Mr Nathan and the Menelaws, with terrible expressions such as 'whoring Jesus' used. I believe that to support such a person, however diplomatically, is an ungodly thing to do. I also do not think it is rational to state that someone has not clarified their position and responded appropriately when they clearly have done so in a very public way. I was simply in agreement with your appraisal of things Treena. If we fellowship with and publicly support railers and those who behave in a destructive (and ungentlemanly) manner, we cannot help but be tarnished with the same brush.
ReplyDeleteMy friend Pat has commented about Bill Randles instability and Prasch on FB:
ReplyDelete"Bill R. has wavered and vacillated from the beginning in this mess. Putting articles up, taking them down, posting comments taking them down. Saying he's done and continuing on in his agenda. He is no different than the leaders we left behind in the Charismania camp, only shedding light on the issues they choose to address and never address any error that reflects badly on their agenda/network/good ole boys.. It's not name calling when Jacob has been proven to be a liar, not showing all the emails is lying by omission and intentional, this is by no means the only instance. I've said, myself, he appears to be mentally ill, watch the videos, his rants and rages are beyond being mentally healthy. It was never meant to be a slam, this is serious, there is something wrong with him, if not mental then what is left? He is viscous, cruel and ruthless."
"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways"(James 1 v. 8)
ReplyDelete"The fear of man bringeth a snare"-(Proverbs 29 v.25)
Non-Biblical quote : "You can't please all the people all the time" - John Lydgate
I do not intend writing anything about Part 2 of the John Cambridge nonsense that Amos Farrell (Genesis Christian Radio) insists on promoting. I feel that to do so would only validate this charlatan. Farrell is the man who asked everyone to "STOP THIS", and yet he continues to exacerbate this ridiculous dispute.
ReplyDeleteI do pray that we can now wait for the result of the investigation into Prasch's unchristian antics without further foul play from either him or his creatures! I also pray that those who have taken part in vilifying David Nathan will repent and apologise to him.
Treena,
ReplyDeleteBut, how much teeth does this so-called 'investigation' really have? To any with a modicum of biblical discernment, we can see that Prasch is clearly guilty as charged in regards to his now infamous railing, and what WE regard to be false teachings, but this is only an ecclesiastical matter. But as to any financial shenanigans this will be a lot more complicated, IF indeed he has committed any offence, for he might not have done?
I remember, once upon a time there was an investigation into RTV, did anything ever come of this?
I doubt very much if any so-called Christian ministry around today would stand an in-depth scrutiny into their financial affairs!
God bless.
I know what you mean Colin..The RTV investigation was a complete washout. Prasch is clever, and I think it will be difficult to make any financial irregularities stick - if there are any as you say.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I think if Moriel are identified as a cult, or at least as cultish, then that will influence those who have not yet become ensnared in his false teachings. There is also the question as to whether the Menelaws will sue him for slander.
The positive thing is that there are a growing number of Christians who no longer accept everything Prasch says as "gospel". I have been hearing that many will not listen to him or his associates again.
I did warn Bill Randles that it is likely that his ministry and reputation will be damaged by this dispute. This goes for all of them of course. God's will be done.
God bless.
Well said Treena.
ReplyDeleteI think everything that can be said has been said re this sad situation. We should not be surprised to see how viscously the evil one attacks and infiltrates the remnant church.
Colin, I urge you to read Treena's articles on Calvinism and those on the Discerning the World website with a heart open to the Lord. Viewing youtube clips by Leighton Flowers (who often does not go far enough), may help. The wicked reign of terror by Calvin in Geneva is obscured and excused by those who place him on a pedestal. Michael Servetus aside, anyone who can execute a child for rebelling against his/her parents and burn a mother and child at the stake for their stand on infant baptism is not of Christ. Jason Cooley of OPBC on Youtube has some great exposès on the Reformers, who did some good but also held to much error. My best to you and Treena.
I am dismayed to read this blog post Treena. The one person who has tried to resolve the issues in a peaceful way between the two "sides" is Bill Randles. And you now turn against him (must you turn against everyone?) and accuse him of bearing false witness and of vilification.
ReplyDeletePerhaps your dictionary definition of vilifying is different to mine, but my Oxford dictionary describes it as "speaking about someone in an abusively disparaging manner". Bill's blog post does not do that!! If anyone is guilty of vilification it is you!
Bill merely asks questions...questions many others are asking too, because for some it still isn't clear cut. David Nathan has shown a humble and graceful attitude but the statements he has issued haven't quite brought the total clarity needed, even if many think it's all sorted now. What is wrong with asking for clarification? How is that "vilifying"? It isn't!
The problem seems to be that people have taken "sides", and many are supporting David Nathan because of the awful behaviour of Jacob Prasch. Some blindly follow Jacob Prasch irrespective, because they put him on such a high pedestal, and some just because they disagree with some things David Nathan has taught. In my view both "sides" are wrong and it has created a huge rift that is affecting people very badly and damaging relationships.
Bill has been the only voice that has brought wisdom and sense and compassion in all of this mess. He is the only one who has tried to be a peacemaker and to bring Biblical truth to the fore (which has been cast aside in what has now become a battle of emotions and bad behaviour). And now you make it your mission to target him as well!
Stop and think! Why has this "battle" gone on so long and got so bloody? Because of all the videos and blogs that get made by the "sides" and then reposted and reblogged adinfinitum, and comments get more accusatory and emotional each time. If you really want all of this to stop, as you say you do, then stop stirring the pot and adding your own dirt to it too.
If everyone had just peacefully asked questions, as Bill has done, instead of posting attacks and counterattacks, then maybe we could have had answers and proper clarification instead of this battle that has dragged people in and tried to force them to take "sides".
I am on neither side. I just want to see truth clarified and upheld and right behaviour that befits true Christians.
So please think about your behaviour (what you say on your blog and how you say it). I think you owe Bill an apology and retraction for some of your remarks above.
Pip
Thank you Mike. I did spend some time listening to Leighton Flowers when I was researching Calvinism again last year. He seems very reasonable and nice, but when I looked at his resources page there were a number of false ecumenical teachers that he recommended. He has now taken these links down I notice. I found the most helpful information on "Beyond the Fundamentals". Kevin Thompson is a very able teacher - although sadly he is pre-trib. He talks at break-neck speed and you really have to concentrate to get the full benefit. https://www.youtube.com/user/KevinThompson1611/videos
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
I really don't see how David Nathan can "clarify" his position any further Pip. If anything, Bill Randles has made matters worse. I am on no-ones side either, but I cannot say the same of Bill Randles. Clear evidence has been presented that David Nathan DOES NOT teach that Jesus created in isolation... and yet Bill Randles (and others) still want "clarification" !! Bill Randles said that he wanted no further discussion... and then he posted yet another dishonest assessment of the situation. The upshot is that he bore false witness and he has in effect vilified David Nathan. Personal insults are not helpful.. I did try to warn Bill that continuing in this way would backfire.
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
Thank you Treena. I do not believe Bill himself has made matters worse. It may be used by others to be that way. Blog titles saying it is a vilification of another is one way matters are "made worse", so please think about that.
ReplyDeleteI think Bill just wanted to clear up what a lot of people were thinking....that David Nathan appears to be "speaking out of both sides of his mouth", which 1 Tim 3:8 describes as "double tongued".
Yes, we have heard him say the right things, but that doesn't mean he didn't also say wrong things. Bill is asking him to repudiate those wrong things - something that does not seem to have happened.
I fail to see how it is "dishonest" and "bearing false witness" to say it is not fully clear. Nor to ask for clear repudiation/retraction of any wrong prior statement made by David, so as to make it clear he now admits it is wrong, if he does. How can asking for such be a "vilification" of him? It is a simple request made peaceably.
In peace,
Pip
Hi Treena. I realize there are problems with Leighton, which you address well in your articles. Nonetheless, I think his testimony and that of others on his Youtube channel may give Colin food for thought. I agree that BEYOND THE FUNDAMENTALS is a very good resource. Mike
ReplyDeleteDavid Nathan has been taken out of context many times Pip.. provably. These continual demands for "further clarification", are, I believe a remorseless attempt to destroy him completely. This is not God's way.
ReplyDeleteWe should be looking to show mercy, not to make pedantic demands of someone who has publicly apologised and explained himself. It is as though nothing he says or clarifies is good enough for them. Even now Amos Farrell continues to post yet more accusations via this John Cambridge character. Prasch has the Haller/Randles/Huxham video in prime position on his FB page. Is such eagerness to condemn a beloved brother in Christ based in God's love and mercy?
"Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful." Luke 6:36.
God bless.
I am just wondering what sort of "clarification" from DN would satisfy Prasch, Randles, Farrell etc. I have just asked Bill Randles on FB: "Precisely what do you require of him - specific wording please?"
ReplyDeleteTreena,
ReplyDeleteI don't believe that any ""clarification" from DN would satisfy Prasch, Randles, Farrell etc." From what LITTLE time I have spent analyzing this sorry episode, it is clear that DN is the one that has been left "hung out to dry".
Nathan cannot say any more than he has; yes, we are ALL agreed that his choice of words were most unwise, for whatever any of us know, or think we know, ONE thing is absolutely CERTAIN; that IS the efficacy of the blood of the Lamb! If we come under the man made labels of Calvinists or Arminians (there is NO middle ground) we can ALL agree that "There is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved" Acts 4:12 (that is through His precious atoning blood ALONE).
Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassion every man to his brother. Zech. 7:9. I see very little of this!
Now, Mr Randles saw fit to comment on your blog, being somewhat perturbed at certain 'accusations' levelled against him, I can only assume that he is entirely satisfied that such 'accusations' were indeed just, for he hasn't deemed it (as yet) necessary to debunk them.
God bless.
Bill Randles has removed his comments from FB and his wife, Kristin, has stepped into the breach as follows:
ReplyDeleteKristin Randles: Treena Gisborn well that’s between those people and God . Then do you stand accountable for everything your friends and acquaintances say and write. This conflict is between DNathan and Bill. You do not know everything but you come off as if you do. Like a puzzle you think you put together ... sorry there are gaping holes. But you come across as if you know everything! I feel sorry for you because you do not. And you mock and seemed come across repulsed by that fact. The pride has been nasty. Please know you are not being godly. Or true. please at least consider ... the hatred , at least seems like to me, you and your constituents sit back in their easy chair and whip out
such statements. David Nathan knows what he must recant and if he has... great . But he has not clarified to us. Please show some temperance, it is unbecoming. You cannot show me one name my husband has called D Nathan not anyone nor do you know what’s taken place.
Treena Gisborn: Well then Kristin please fill in the gaps? I think calling DN a heretic is serious - and it does affect the whole body.. we have every right to question what is happening. What can DN say to clear this matter up for you? This is a simple question.
Kristin Randles: Will you be accountable for your mocking, scorn, name calling and sin?
Treena Gisborn: You are reacting rather than responding rationally Kristin. You say: "You do not know everything"... why not? DN has been completely open making all the information available and posting all the emails publicly. If there is something else that we are not aware of that might make us alter our view, then make it public so that we can all make a considered assessment of the situation. Why won't Bill read any of the intra-seal information which proves Prasch to be a false teacher? Why won't he say what would be an acceptable response from DN? You say "DN knows what he must recant.. and if he has.. great." Don't you know? Your responses are illogical. Bill made this public in the first place, and now he is not willing to answer reasonable questions.
For the record, I do not believe in the doctrines of Calvin or Arminius. I am a Bible believing Christian who believes in a 3 person Godhead who has made provision for and desires all men to repent and be saved. The Lord Jesus Christ did not say 'Repent and believe the gospel (that is, all those whom God will supernaturally and sovereignly elect to do so. The rest of you can forget about it!). The scriptures state that God commands ALL men to repent. It would be unjust of Him to make such a command if it is impossible for men to obey this without special intervention from Him. John MacArthur has stated that God chooses to NOT save billions of people via (the mythical idea of) 'monergism'"for his glory". What blasphemy! What a terrible misrepresentation of God.The obe who receives glory when men remain lost is not the Lord God but the one who was "a murderer from the beginning".
ReplyDeleteRe the discourse between Treena and Mrs Randles, this dispute has been conducted in the public forum and Bill chose to appear in a Youtube video with others questioning and condemning David Nathan. It is too late to say this is a private issue that others in the body of Christ should not comment on.
Thank you Mike.
ReplyDeleteFor Kristin to say that this is a private matter between David Nathan and her husband is, to use one of Prasch's favourite sayings, a reductio ad absurdum.
Bill Randles accusations against David Nathan are on public display on his blog:
'Why There Is Still A Question… (David Nathan)' https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/12/30/why-there-is-still-a-question-david-nathan/
Kristin's further charge that I have been "name calling" etc. is also absurd. It is true that have called Prasch a "false teacher", but I can prove that. I have asked the Randles' some challenging questions, but I have had no answers.
I have to say that I expected much more - it has turned out to be very disappointing. I will leave the Randles' to their delusions.
God bless.
Treena,
ReplyDeleteThe recent exchange you had with Kristin calls to mind an exchange that I read on Randles blog just prior to the new year. It astonished me somewhat that he published it in the first place, only to take it down very shortly afterwards, he clearly knew the individual concerned. It was an acrimonious exchange, and from what I could make out this person was a disgruntled former congregant of Randles Church, and he said some unpleasant things about Kristin, as well as telling Randles that it was her who is running the show! This is now evidenced by the fact that she has "stepped into the breach". Really, what sort of 'pastor' is Randles? Putting posts up, taking them down, one day the Menelaws are his friends, next day not! talk about being "double minded"?
Kristin comes over as a thorough pope, irrational, illogical, and name-calling, which is what folk do when there are no satisfactory answers to be had. If there is something to say -SAY IT! this whole sorry saga is in the public domain, not a private dispute. Aren't we supposed to walk in the light as He is in the light"? 1 John 1:7? Luke 12:2, Mark 4:22, Matthew 10:26 etc. It beggars belief that Mrs Randles says "this conflict is between D Nathan and Bill" when we witness all that has gone on! Doesn't she realise that her husband's congregants/followers from far and wide deserve better than all this chicanery? sure they do. The Randles run a very public ministry, soliciting donations, selling their materials (Gospel peddling), and now I can see why he won't stand up to Prasch!
You have been asking perfectly "reasonable questions" that deserve an answer. Also, can Nathan say anymore than he has done? What do these popes want him to do - write it down in his own blood?
God bless.
I’m not sure it was Bill Randles who made the antichrist heretic comment, Treena. I think it was Phillip Powell. Prasch attacked Powell with his usual lack of grace. Probably because they had had a falling out about midrash. Powell said something about Shadows of the Beast that Prasch disagreed with, I think. In fact this was the first time I began to have doubts about Prasch. He made really unnecessary comments about Powell, an elderly saint with a long ministry behind him. If I remember rightly Prasch was actually in the right doctrinally but totally wrong in the way he went into attack mode. Randles and others sprang to Prasch’s defence then too.
ReplyDeleteYou are right Monopode. I have just gone through the comments:
ReplyDeletePhilip Powell:
"..My objection was to the repeated statement by Jacob Prasch that the faithful church will (must be able to) identify the anti Christ before the rapture. That I think is false and heretical as it places an onus on the church and away from Christ regarding the timing of the rapture, which I believe is clearly lodged with God and His Son only."
I will revise my previous comment accordingly.
It is unfortunate that the original post was taken down by Bill Randles.
God bless.
REVISED COMMENT
ReplyDeleteI have noticed that Prasch often associates with weak characters i.e. those he knows will not stand up to him. Anyone who thinks for themselves is not acceptable to him.
In hindsight, Randles reluctance to look at intra-seal is interesting. He takes a very accommodating view regarding the timing of the rapture. In 2011 he said: "I am somewhere between pre-trib and pre-wrath in my eschatology." .. He also stated that he thought the seals had begun opening. !!
https://www.raptureforums.com/forums/threads/bill-randles.118859/
In typical fashion Randles took down the post in question, only the comments remain!
https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2013/10/13/my-two-friends-philip-and-jacob/
Another one of Prasch's associates is Tony Pearce, another teacher who is keen to accommodate all the rapture views irrespective of the consequences.
I do not promote unnecessary hostility, but I believe that the timing of the rapture is vital to the eschatological debate. In particular, teachers should be warning about the dangers of the pre-trib position. Intra-seal is of course totally absurd.
It would be interesting to know more about the church split that took place last summer at the Randles church. I note that Prasch refused to intervene in the dispute.. but why should he be expected to intervene in something unconnected with him? As for Kirstin, I now understand why someone commented "Kirstin has spoken, that settles it" on Randles FB page recently.
David Nathan advised Prasch that he was leaving Moriel before this problem began. I think this may have something to do with Prasch's attack - but I speculate.
God bless.
ReplyDeleteFrom Bill Candles blog
TruthinLove33 says:
January 7, 2019 at 5:29 pm
A bit Ironic I think, that David preaches often against the “heretic” who believes that the eternal Blood of Jesus is eternally able to redeem, even possibly after taking the mark of the Beast. Jacob on the other hand, you could say believes that the Blood of Jesus will profit you nothing once you have received that mark. There will be no salvation for anyone who has received the mark and you cannot be redeemed. So much for the eternally powerful blood of Christ??
I talked in length to a pastor recently who defends Jacob on all counts and told me John Maccarthur and David Nathan are both Heretics who must be cut ties from. I explained John had stated his view in a question and answer session and that he stated it was his opinion as he believes the blood of Christ can redeem you from serving the world.
So i am to believe you can live your whole life as a respected Christian, child of God, pastor, family man, husband, and if one statement having to do with end time theology, stated as opinion, can be so unforgivable that you should be severed from all christian support and admiration and you are to be cast off into heretic land never to be respected again?
I asked the Pastor, what about all the other parts of living the christian life which are equally important? What about when Jesus tells us that when we get to the gates that his big question will be did we show love to the poor and hurting? Did we cloth them, did we feed them and give them drink?
What about verses like
Ephesians 4:29
29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
Exodus 23:1
1 “Do not spread false reports. Do not help a guilty person by being a malicious witness.
James 1:26
26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.
Colossians 3:8
But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
1 Peter 2:1
Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
Leviticus 19:16
‘You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the LORD.
if we don’t control our tongues our religion is worthless it says, the bible is clear this is no secondary matter. In fact it may be the actual mark of the state of your heart, the way we speak of our brother and hold peace between his body.
And we want to elevate eschatological theology above what Christ came here to do and teach us to do. To love, to serve, to be humble, and to correct in love and humility.
Jacob has applied psalm 49:1 to himself, putting himself in the place of Jesus and putting David Nathan in the role of Judas who lifts his heel at Jacob. He said David “shovels manure and presents it to be ice cream”. HE calls David “alexander the Coppersmith” who did great harm to Paul. He has called The Menelaws “ahab and Jezebel.
This is no secondary issue brothers, the words we speak about our brothers, the names we call, the failure to love each other especially when the other party has meant us no harm, it is most certainly revealing a deep and very serious issue of the Heart. Consider that before we judge people for end time theological issues of which we most likely won’t even be alive to see come to pass. Let us remember what Jesus commands us to focus on in life, in serving, repenting, searching our own hearts for evil, and only correcting brothers in love, privately if possible. We can’t simply blame this all on Satan’s hands causing division we have to own responsibility in this ordeal and realize that Satan can only use us when we allow him to. And if we have we need to repent immediately, make peace with each other and for those who refuse to bring peace and healing to the body, we indeed must separate from if necessary.
Could the church split? (knowing that Jacob knows what's going on with all his affiliates) be enough leverage to make Bill play nice with Moriel or else. There is always more to the story and Prasch makes sure he knows what's going on and has leverage on people because that is how Moriel works. Ask Sally Richardson.
ReplyDeleteI would rather face the "or else" Anonymous. Nothing is worth compromising our walk with the Lord for.
ReplyDeleteRandles statement "I have all kinds of problems with these two issues", is deliberately vague. Since he will not specify exactly what WOULD be a satisfactory response from David Nathan, I assume that he wants to continue the controversy.
In my view of God, anyone who shows the inclination to repent is embraced, encouraged and restored by the Lord. (Luke 15:11-23). The reverse has happened in this case.
"For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment." James 2:13).
God bless.
Bill Randles has picked up Prasch's noose and has sparked his own witch hunt of David Nathan as of 29th August 2019: https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2019/08/29/abusing-discernment-in-the-name-of-discernment
ReplyDeleteThank you for this tbckawaii. I did leave a comment on Bill Randles' blog, but it has not been published. It seems he is rather selective about what actually comes out into the public domain. I made a couple of points.. 1- If he is going to expose people publicly then he should have the courage to name them outright rather than leave some of his readers guessing. 2. Both Prasch and Nathan have mis-taught the millennium:
ReplyDeleteJacob Prasch: "Once the harpazo transpires, the Lord will refocus His primary intentions on the salvation of Israel, although not salvation in the sense that we understand it, NOT BY GRACE, it will ?? revert back to the Old Testament way of dealing with man and the nations." (emphasis mine). After Prasch denied GRACE after the rapture, he had the audacity to turn on David Nathan.. there is a word for that somewhere! https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2019/05/jacob-prasch-millennial-views-tainted.html
When Bill Randles recorded a video of himself reading his article in which he attacked Jacob Prasch and David Nathan, Amos Farrell of Genesis Christian Radio and TV (GCR TV) wrote the following abusive message to Bill Randles in response:
ReplyDelete>>>>>>>>>
Bill you are a double-dealer who deletes posts that show you in your true colors. You have raised as issue without the courage to say who you speak off, hoping to gather support and a following from what was once a respected ministry. To then simply re-read your blog post shows you have nothing more to say. Bil you are a shadow of the man you used to be.so here is my original reply. YOU HAVE ASKED FOR COMMENTS HAVE THE COURAGE TO TAKE THE NEGATIVE WITH A WILLINGNESS TO ACCEPT YOUR FAILINGS AND DOUBLE STANDARDS>Bill what is going on, why are you publishing a blog that was always closed to your church and a few selected supporters? why have you deemed it relevant to put this on the public domain? Is this mischief or a genuine desire to voice an issue that can benefit the cause of the truth and edify the church.why do i fear there is a duplicitous character now becoming evident in your posts and character. This serves no purpose what so ever except to attack and condemn someone who has said nothing but the truth. You even confirm this again in your post. Your liberal side is taking over from the robust conservative attitude and values you once held and is starting to shine a light on your real intentions. So perhaps you don’t like the way Jacob or Joshua stands up for the truth, but at least they are honest and their intentions are plainly seen. They are not playing to a crowd or seeking adoration and kudos. The defence of the faith and protection of the vulnerable is their only objective. So tell us, Bill, what is your intention? you cant even say daid Nathans name, but allude to it, you cant say Deborah Menalaws name but we all know who you mean. It’s an old English saying, “call a spade a spade” aka speak the truth without fear of favour and stand up and be the man you once were. You were anointed and appointed by GOD, and to him only should you fear, why then are you trying to be friends with the world and the deceivers and truth twisters who you should be condemning and warning others about. The global church is in a mess because men have not done their duty and stood and challenged apostasy and heresy and guided brethren away from it. Saying you agree with someone else who does, then condemning that person is treachery and shameful and underlies the real character of a man.
Zephaniah 3:4
Her prophets are reckless, treacherous men; Her priests have profaned the sanctuary. They have done violence to the law. Could this have been part of your agenda, to have revenge against Jacob and blame him for your failures at B.I.G. to hide your guilt while using Moriel as a smokescreen and hide your problems? Kristin has become you litmus tester who gauges peoples reaction that you then ratify and claim as yours. You might wear trousers, but she tells you which ones to wear.2 Samuel 11:15
He had written in the letter, saying, “Place Uriah in the front line of the fiercest battle and withdraw from him, so that he may be struck down and die.
>>>>>>>
Lisa Welch replied to Amos with the classic statement “And Amos you are an insane lying lunatic.”
Unfortunately at about 2:15pm GMT Bill Randles deleted his video and the associated comments. However, I thought it best to record Amos’ comments as they are so deeply unbecoming of a man who claims to be a Christian, and echoed the same thuggish bullying we saw from him in his stupid conspiracy theory video that I critiqued in 'The Good, The Bad, and The Echo Chamber' video last Christmas.
Randles does delete posts and comments. The result - we do not get an accurate or impartial account from him. His silly game of "guess who" is very childish. I second Lisa Welch's comment about Farrell.
ReplyDeleteAnother blog post from Bill Randles: https://billrandles.wordpress.com/
ReplyDeleteIf Bill Randles were so very righteous and had such a sense of outrage then he should have made much more of a fuss about David Nathan's "heresy" at the time.. One question in a public meeting does not constitute a challenge! Lets be clear.. if David Nathan had not announced that he was leaving Moriel none of this would have happened.
God bless
Randles is a notorious history revisionist when it comes to his involvement in situations. He stuck to his guns in supporting Prasch for too long, so I recorded his nonsense and his fence-sitting activity of trying to remain loyal to Prasch yet support some of Prasch's victims. Then he had the temerity to say on my Vimeo video comments sections that I'd misrepresented him! If he could view himself from the perspective of reality rather than through the Praschesque kaleidoscope from cloud cuckoo land then he'd realise he's a proven revisionist bent on protecting a false image of himself.
ReplyDeleteSomeone just commented on my FB page:
ReplyDeleteHe is giving himself license to continue to grid on this. His absolute refusal to accept any repentance and correction that was made certainly shows his heart. Bill’s own words:
“. I know, I know, He supposedly explained all of that, and cleared it up.
I have never been satisfied with his explanation, nor has he ever answered the question, "Why would you ever say such a thing in the first place, when you can easily see how volatile such sayings are".
So why is it that Bill R continues to hound this topic? It’s clear by his own words that he will never be satisfied with anything that David would say or do. One can only imagine what kind of Pastor he is with behavior and unforgiveness like this? Who is he to have to be “satisfied with his explanation”? Doesn’t that go before God? Wow!!
Treena you stated "Lets go over the facts again shall we?"
ReplyDeleteMoriel and its affiliates state " The facts are what we say they are."
Of course this is really void of any truth or cleverly mix truth and total fiction.
I am convinced this is a spiritual thing with Moriel.
When I filmed Bill Randles and Jacob at the Hayes Conference we were back in a room eating when Bill took it upon himself to start running down David Nathan to Jacob. This was not a private thing but with people who helped with Hayes etc..
Bill took advantage of the situation to run down David Nathan with Kris gleefully shaking her head in agreement.
Bill stated that David Nathan taught that the Holy Spirit was the restrainer in the end times.
That surprised me so I asked Bill to show where David taught this?
He could not quote any teaching or source he just said it was so.
Jacob pretty much just ignored Bill and did not respond to him and continued to eat his lunch.
Bill Randles is all in all a very solid preacher but their praise and worship led by Kris is very much in the groove of Toronto, Brownsville etc..
I was even on the platform once at Bill's church and it was very uncomfortable.
Kris speaking the one syllable fake tongues thing and doing the Holy Spirit trance type thing.
I do not think that Kris is demonic just someone who seeks the attention.
I know music and when you are leading music how is the congregation supposed to follow worshipping the Lord Jesus if you are all over the place and the focus is really on you.
On Bill's own Facebook page one photo takes the cake.
It shows Bill worshipping and Kris pausing to wave at the camera.
That says it all.
Kris was in the back of the room at Hayes going off on some fake tongues and other mumbo jumbo while her husband was preaching the Word.
This is exactly what happened at all the false revivals such as Toronto/Pensacola etc..
The weird manifestations would always start when the preaching started.
This at the very least puts the attention on the person or persons and takes away from the preaching of the word.
No one being honest could say that my friend and brother in the Lord David Nathan is a heretic.
David showed the love, grace and mercy our mutual Savior Jesus would show.
Davids attackers showed the exact opposite.
Very sad.
Many of us are praying all this nonsense would stop but I beleieve God uses everything.
And it very may well be that God is using this to seperate sheep and goats.
Jacob and Moriel have been proven to lie but yet many ministries such as John Hallers and Marco Quintanas continue to follow in step with Jacobs bidding.
Moriel through Josh Chav flat out lied about me in a hit piece that was pulled.
It was filled with lies that could easily be dis proved through emails.
But I thought "What would be the point?".
Would it convince Moriels followers?
No of course nto because truth with Moriel is what they make it out to be. Not the actual facts.
I have been inside Jacobs computer through Team Viewer (I got help with this from Koshy Abraham who helped Jacob and lived in the house that Jacob rented in the UK -where Jacob stated he did not live).
It's a true mess.
People need to ask themselves where the anger Jacob has actually comes from?
I would encourage people to break fellowship with all who follow or endorse Moriel.
Most are just opportunist like the Randles who state they were not Moriel but still booked with help from Moriel and listed on the old Moriel site as one of their speakers.
Makes you kinda dizzy doesn't it.
I have held back because I care for my wife who is in late stage Alzheimers.
And no I do not consider myself a victim because of my wifes illness I embrace it because it makes me more like Jesus.
i do not run away from my family to pursue my own fame but run towards my family because they are my first and most important ministry.
Plus when I married Donna I made her and God a promise.
I tend to keep this.
Blessings in Jesus
Tim
David Nathan teaches that Michael is the Restrainer Tim.. I have heard it for myself!
ReplyDeleteI can't comment on the worship style of Kris since I have not heard it for myself. Are there any videos out there of her leading worship?
I am not an apologist for David Nathan and I do not agree with his millennium teaching. Nevertheless it must have taken a lot to restrain himself from all the abuse that those wolves threw at him. Interestingly Prasch also mis-taught the millennium, but we mustn't mention that!
On a more positive note , Randles has cleared your name of the accusations against you regarding the hotel bill. https://vimeo.com/345492408/comments?fbclid=IwAR373BDgexrFpmkg0QhXz8K9K6_NEwAw33PNTt0kRjPP6dZbPNtPWwG_rBU
God bless you and Donna
No there are not any videos that I know of that show Kris leading worship. I challenged Bill to film it and put it in the public.
DeleteHe has chosen not to do that.
Point of correctionto the above statement. Bill Randles stated David Nathan was teaching that Michael the Archangel was the restrainer
ReplyDeleteThanks
Tim
Ah.. then Randles was correct. I share the view that Michael is the Restrainer - I hold the Prewrath rapture view. The Holy Spirit view came from that madman John Nelson Darby!
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
Thanks Treena I saw that but I have emails from Moriel that state a different story and both parties have lied to me so who knows?
ReplyDeleteSo Bill must be stating that David Lister flat out lied to me.
I would not be surprised.
But I would not be surprised if Bill is telling half truths as well.
Like I had stated Donna and I would have been fine sleeping on their couches . We did not want anyone to have to foot another hotel bill.
Blessings
Tim
Bill Randles has removed by latest comment from his blog. As tbckawaii says.. He is a total revisionist.. I am blocked from adding a further comment. What has it come to when these supposed "ministers" tell lies to suit their own agenda? Ephesians 4:25.
ReplyDeleteWith 'pastors' behaving the way Randles does, is it any wonder the visible Church is in such a diabolical state? Who would want to listen to ANYTHING the man has to say? Randles,like Prasch are but Gospel peddlers in it for the $£$£$£.
ReplyDeleteI too, noticed that your subsequent comment was removed; WHY would he do that, I wonder? the man is plainly not being straight - "crooked as a donkey's hind leg"!
And to think that you once expected an honest theological appraisal of Prasch's woeful intra-seal theory from the man! When he was Prasch's buddy, he was NEVER going to be critical of it!
Tim Wirth also has a right to be concerned with the tongues issue and Randles dismissive approach to it. Though not an avowed cessationist like myself, he realises that what Mrs Randles utters doesn't pass the test of Scripture, and if her husband can't see this then there is a major spiritual problem with them. He is right to make the parallel with Toronto, Brownsville etc.
As believers, whatever our beliefs on theology may be, if we can't be honest with one another, what hope of fellowship is there?
PROVIDE THINGS HONEST IN THE SIGHT OF ALL MEN. Romans 12:17, 2 Corinthians 8:21!
God bless.
My original comment has also been taken down now Colin. It appears that Randles only wants comments that put him in a good light. As Tim Wirth pointed out, Randles abused David Nathan behind his back.. but it is clear that he did not have the honesty to speak to speak to him directly about his concerns although he claims otherwise.
ReplyDeleteGod bless
I've not found any video yet of her. But I did listen to Bill for a few minutes on one video where he literally is saying if you call yourself a Christian and you drink or watch porn or smoke marijuana you may not actually be saved! WOW he is talking about this while he leans on the pulpit to breath because he is so obese!! This is so hypocritical, it would be one thing if Bill would even acknowledge that he has a food addiction but he doesn't. Somehow being a glutton is acceptable??
ReplyDeleteThe irony is that the title of the message was Matthew 7.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shFw_eFYAyI&feature=youtu.be
Randles: "Salvation gives us power over those sins.. but to be dominated by sin, especially one of the exclusionary sins.." 39:00 Randles should look at the qualifications required for elders in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:6-9.. "temperate self controlled". If an elder or pastor cannot control himself, he is not an example to the flock. Obesity on this level is a very visible sign that a person is not right with God. Gluttony is compared with drunkenness in the scriptures: Proverbs 23:21.
ReplyDeleteMoriel article under fashion?
ReplyDeletettps://moriel.org/component/content/article/46-fashion/beauty-fashion/151-i-still-appreciate-individuality-style-is-much-more-interesting-than-fashion-really-2.html?Itemid=294
here is the main pagehttps://www.moriel.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=37&Itemid=136
ReplyDeleteAgain Fashion?
Mike and Pat on Bill Randles; Twists and Turns (eisegesis)
ReplyDeletehttps://closingstages.net/2019/09/06/bill-randles-twists-and-turns-eisgese/
There ought to be unity among believers in Christ... https://youtu.be/yiHf8klCCc4
ReplyDelete