OLIVIER MELNICK: "WHAT IF WE ARE WRONG ABOUT THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE?"

 (55) WHAT IF THE RAPTURE WAS A MYTH? WHAT IF IT NEVER HAPPENS? ARE WE WRONG ABOUT ALL THIS? - YouTube

In the above video, Olivier Melnick asks the critical question: "What happens if I have been wrong about the rapture for the last 40 years? It is possible."  

Melnick is the Southwest Regional Director of Chosen People Ministries and is very popular with the pre-trib camp, often appearing as a guest of Andy Woods, Tom Hughes etc.1  

No one in their right mind wants to suffer the unprecedented persecution that will evidently take place during the great tribulation and I do not blame anyone for wanting to escape it. (Matthew 24:21). My difficulty is that there is no way around the fact that the scriptures teach that the church will indeed enter the tribulation, and as such, believers should be prepared to endure it. (Revelation 12:17; 13:10; 14:12). 

Melnick rightly points out that to deny the rapture entirely is unbiblical given the various scriptural references to it. He then turns his attention to the traditional post-tribulation view of the rapture. Melnick is right when he points out the inherent difficulties posed by traditional posttribulationists. However, it seems highly unlikely that he is ignorant regarding the critical distinctions between the prewrath rapture and traditional posttribulationism! Pre-trib believers should not be deceived by attempts to portray the prewrath position and the traditional post-trib as synonymous.

A number of traditional post-trib views do not find biblical support:

The resurrection takes place in Revelation 20
The second coming begins in Revelation 19
The second coming begins when Jesus physically comes to earth
The seals, trumpets, bowls occur concurrently
The rapture happens at the seventh trumpet
Paul’s “last trump” refers to the seventh trumpet in the book of Revelation
The great tribulation is 3.5 years long
The Day of the Lord is a literal 24-hour day
After the rapture, God’s people immediately descend to earth2

Unfortunately teachers within the traditional post-trib rapture camp refuse point-blank to tackle the theological difficulties associated with their view. I refer to teachers like Joe Schimmel (Blessed Hope Chapel) and Sam Adams (Independence Baptist Church). Teachers like Schimmel and Adams give ammunition to the pre-trib camp, and their stubborn refusal to address legitimate post-trib theological problems is a hindrance to the discussion and is injurious to the Body of Christ.

In common with other pre-trib teachers, Melnick does not make the correct distinction between the persecution of the Antichrist (tribulation/thlipsis) and the wrath of God (wrath/orgé). (Revelation 6:17; Matthew 24:29). Melnick also errs in that he espouses a "signless rapture", whereas the scriptures specifically speak of the sign of the Son of Man associated with the gathering of the elect (the rapture). The pre-trib denial of the application to believers of the Olivet Discourse and their misinterpretation of other rapture passages is very concerning. Melnick: "How could a rapture happen at the end of the period of seven years be unknown and imminent?"  Imminency is yet another flawed pre-trib doctrine. These are all very significant errors that have been addressed many times by prewrath scholars. (See Further Links)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31).

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).

In his early days as a believer, Melnick swallowed the hype of prophecy huckster Hal Lindsey, the author of The Late Great Planet Earth in 1971.3 I believe Lindsey is now on his third or fourth wife and is disqualified from the ministry. Lindsey puts me in mind of many current pre-trib date setters who all but name the time of the rapture.4 Lindsey: "..the decade of the 1980s could very well be the last decade of history as we know it."5  It is understandable that a new Christian would believe this nonsense, but surely it is time to grow up. (1 Peter 2:2; Ephesians 4:15). I do not want to insult Melnick, but forty years of bible study does not qualify him as a prophecy expert. Many prominent bible teachers remain in significant error all their lives! No matter what the claims and boasts of various teachers, it is always necessary to test the spirits. (1 John 4:1). Even Paul submitted himself to this principle. (Acts 17:11).

I believe that if Melnick were to study the prewrath position minus his current confirmation bias, then he would recognize the pre-trib rapture as a false doctrine. 

1. CPM Southwest - Chosen People Ministries
2. Replies to the Post-Tribulational Rapture View (alankurschner.com)
3. The Late Great Planet Earth - Wikipedia
4. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: BRITT GILLETTE: THE DANGEROUS SPECULATIONS OF THE PRE-TRIB "PROPHECY EXPERTS" (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
5. The Late Great Planet Earth - Wikipedia

Further Links

(58) 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie) - YouTube
Microsoft Word - Prewrath - Early Church Fathers.docx (alankurschner.com)
Articles for Posttribulationism to Consider | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)

BRITT GILLETTE: THE DANGEROUS SPECULATIONS OF THE PRE-TRIB "PROPHECY EXPERTS"

(46) Will the Tribulation Begin in September? - YouTube

Instead of preparing believers to endure the great tribulation, various pre-trib "prophecy experts" claim that believers will escape it entirely. The anticipation of an imminent rapture is a very dangerous false doctrine that may compromise the very faith of those who hold to it. (Matthew 24:9-13; Revelation 13:10). Pre-trib teacher Britt Gillette (ETBP) speculates that what he erroneously refers to as "the tribulation" could begin this September. Gillette: "If it is the event talked about in Daniel 9:27.. then I would expect the rapture would occur between now and then and we won't be here.." 

Gilette: "An event is scheduled to take place in September. It's generating a lot of speculation in regard to end times bible prophecy, and it's understandable why. It's because this event bears a striking resemblance to an event prophesied in the Bible - an event that marks the beginning of the Tribulation. In today's video, we talk about this upcoming event, how it relates to bible prophecy, and what we should be doing now."

Gillette refers to the United Nations SDG Summit 18-19 September 2023 in New York:

We Need 7 Years of Accelerated, Transformative Action to Achieve SDGs

"The 2023 SDG Summit will take place on 18-19 September 2023 in New York. It will mark the beginning of a new phase of accelerated progress towards the Sustainable Development Goals with high-level political guidance on transformative and accelerated actions leading up to 2030.

Convened by the President of the General Assembly, the Summit will mark the half-way point to the deadline set for achieving the 2030 Agenda and the Sustainable Development Goals. It will be the centerpiece of the High-level Week of the General Assembly. It will respond to the impact of multiple and interlocking crises facing the world and is expected to reignite a sense of hope, optimism, and enthusiasm for the 2030 Agenda." 1    

Along with a number of other pre-trib "prophecy experts", Gillette speculates that the UN Summit this year may mark the beginning of the 7-year covenant referred to in the book of Daniel:

And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.” (Daniel 9:27).

Although I do not rule out the possibility that this Summit may possibly mark the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel, the "strong covenant" will take place primarily between the Antichrist and Israel (although it may involve other nations). As such, I am not convinced that the upcoming UN Summit will be the covenant referred to in Daniel 9:27. In my view, this critical milestone is likely to coincide with the reinstitution of animal sacrifices on the Temple Mount, and (possibly) the rebuilding of the third Jerusalem Temple. There are clear signs that animal sacrifices will be reinstituted in the not-too-distant future. Furthermore, plans to build the third temple are in full swing, as are plans concerning the red heifer sacrifice. These things do seem to indicate that the 70th week looms very large and we should be careful to stay alert (Matthew 24:42). 

  

Gillette is one of many pre-trib "prophecy experts" who falsely refer to the 70th week of Daniel as "the tribulation". The scriptures are very clear that the onset of the tribulation will be preceded by the beginning of birth pains. The great tribulation will begin at the midpoint of the 70th week when the Antichrist.. takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God  (2 Thessalonians 2:4). This is an important distinction to make since the midpoint of the "week" marks the onset of unprecedented persecution against Jews and Christians. (Matthew 24:21). I have explained this more fully in previous posts. (See Further Links) 

Do not let pre-trib "prophecy experts" throw you under the bus!

Whether or not the UN Summit marks the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel, the rapture will certainly not occur this year!  

My concern is that if the UN's 7-year "new phase" is in fact the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel, the rapture no-show will cause many believers to deny that the 70th week has begun. This denial necessarily applies whenever the 70th week begins, whether or not it applies to the UN Summit. Gillette indicates: "If we are here two months from now we will say, 'Oh well, it turns out that event was nothing'." The confirmation bias within the pre-trib camp is very strong, and my concern is that many pretribbers will still be waiting for the fictional pre-trib rapture during the 70th week. This critical error is likely to cause many believers to deny a major milestone in the prophetic timeline leaving them unprepared to face the persecution of the Antichrist. (Matthew 24:9-13).

The events during what Jesus described as "the beginning of birth pains" i.e. the first half of the 70th week of Daniel will precede the tribulation: 

Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.. So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, (let the reader understand).. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. (Matthew 24:4-14,15,21).

Some prewrath scholars believe that the birth pains will continue until the end of the third seal, while others believe that they will include the fourth seal. In any event, believers should not be lulled into a false sense of security regarding pre-trib assertions that the church will escape the major catastrophes that will overtake the world during this 3.5 year period and beyond.

Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.

When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword.

When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”

When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth. (Revelation 6:1-8).

My advice to anyone seriously concerned about bible prophecy is to do your own due diligence. Do not allow these false prophets to shipwreck your faith. (1 Timothy 1:19).

1. https://www.un.org/

Further Links

 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

 WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

PROPHECY WATCHERS: THE IMMINENT RETURN FALLACY

(29) The Imminent Return | Gary Stearman, Mondo Gonzales and Gregg Gray - YouTube

Building with straw - another wasted weekend!

Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. (1 Corinthians 3:12-13).

The Big Sell

Gary Stearman, Mondo Gonzales and Gregg Gray have announced their upcoming prophecy conference from October 5-8. This conference is primarily based on the false doctrine of the imminent return of Jesus Christ. Speakers will include showman Billy Crone, arch speculator Bill Salus, Nephilim expert LA Marzulli, pseudo-academic Lee Brainard, Bill Koenig, Mark Hitchcock, Tom Hughes, Randell Price etc. in fact, many of the usual suspects. These teachers are promoted as men who are "in the know about bible prophecy" and who "deeply study scripture and deeply believe in the soon appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ."  If these men studied the scriptures as deeply as they claim, they would reject the foolish idea of a pre-trib rapture and the intrinsic theory of imminence. These teachers are little more than false prophets whose message of hope to the body of Christ during the 70th week of Daniel is invalid. Instead of preparing believers to endure the great tribulation, these men teach that believers will escape it entirely. The anticipation of an imminent rapture is a very dangerous doctrine that is likely to compromise the very faith of those who hold to it. (Matthew 24:9-13; Revelation 13:10). Some of these false teachers come dangerously close, but often stop just short of date setting. Pre-trib teacher Britt Gillette speculates that what he wrongly refers to as "the tribulation" could begin this September based on the upcoming UN Summit. Gillette: "If it is the event talked about in Daniel 9:27.. then I would expect the rapture would occur between now and then and we won't be here.." {1} 

The false doctrine of imminence  

Gonzalez: "We see the signs of the coming of the Lord, and there really is nothing that is holding back the rapture of the church which we strongly believe in. That could happen today, and as we see the signs of Jesus' second coming, the rapture is even sooner. and no matter what .. perspective is, whether you are pre-trib, prewrath, we know that the signs of Jesus' second coming are there and that imminent return which pushes His return for His church even earlier."  Gonzalez is incoherent regarding the prewrath position. The prewrath position does not include any notion of imminence until the cosmic disturbances occur after the sixth seal is broken. (Revelation 6:12-17). 

Pre-trib teachers portray the rapture as a "secret" event when believers will suddenly disappear from the earth prior to what they refer to as "the tribulation". The concept of a seven-year tribulation is another pre-trib concoction that I have addressed elsewhere. {2} The idea that no one will see Jesus coming except believers is patently false. In fact, the rapture will be anything but secret! Note that Jesus  Christ places the rapture after the tribulation when there will be fearful cosmic disturbances, and everyone (i.e. all the tribes of the earth) will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds. Unbelievers will not be wondering where their believing friends and relatives have gone ~ it will be painfully obvious.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31). 

Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. (Revelation 1:7).

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4) 

Do not let pre-trib teachers throw you under the bus!

The lack of integrity within the pre-trib camp is beyond scandalous. I often expose false "prophets" and "apostles" within the NAR movement. Frankly, the dishonesty of pre-trib teachers is just as disgusting, and they are on target to do immeasurable damage to the body of Christ. The pre-trib mantra "imminent rapture" replaces the NAR mantra "imminent revival" or "imminent breakthrough". The recent shenanigans of Lee Brainard and Mike Golay (Behold Israel with Amir Tsarfati) regarding the writings of the Church Fathers has left their credibility in tatters. Brainard's false claims that Irenaeus and Ephraem (Pseudo Ephraem) taught a pre-trib rapture despite irrefutable evidence to the contrary is beyond embarrassing. The Church Fathers were all in agreement that Christians would face the Antichrist. 

Against Heresies 5.26.1 And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. {3} 

Against Heresies 5.30.3-4 It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy [2 Thessalonians 4:1-12], than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved..   But he (Pau1) indicates the number of the name now, that when this man [the Antichrist] comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. {4}

Against Heresies 5.35.1 For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule; in [the times of] which [resurrection] the righteous shall reign in the earth, waxing stronger by the sight of the Lord: and through Him they shall become accustomed to partake in the glory of God the Father, and shall enjoy in the kingdom intercourse and communion with the holy angels, and union with spiritual beings; and [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one. {5}  

Peddling their wares! (2 Corinthians 2:17).

Every single episode of Prophecy Watchers involves relentless merchandising of books and DVDs. 

My advice to anyone seriously interested in bible prophecy as against the hyped-up speculations peddled by the pre-trib camp is to do your own due diligence. Do not allow these charlatans to shipwreck your faith. (1 Timothy 1:19).

For further information about the imminence problem I recommend THE IMMINENCE PROBLEM | 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (alankurschner.com)

1. (43) Will the Tribulation Begin in September? - YouTube
2. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
3. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.26 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
4. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.30 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
5. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.35 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)

Further Links  

7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: ANDY WOODS' CHEAP SHOT AT THE PREWRATH RAPTURE! (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
A Reply to Lee W. Brainard | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: BILL SALUS # JOEL ROSENBERG # ANDY WOODS: PROPHETIC EISEGESIS (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

CHRISTOPHER CHAPMAN KINGDOM THEOLOGY: IS ESCHATOLOGY CONFUSING?

 (15) Why Studying End Times Is So Confusing - YouTube

Christopher Chapman: "To some people, eschatology is so simple. It fits on a nice clean chart. But for me, studying end times is so confusing. In this video, I will explain why I and some others find it so confusing."  

Although I believe that Christopher Chapman is well-meaning, his views on eschatology are both inaccurate and irresponsible. I fear that his remarks will discourage believers from studying eschatology. While this subject is challenging, I believe that it is possible to come to a correct understanding of end-time events.    

Jesus Christ commanded us to understand the Abomination of Desolation event. 

So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand ἀναγινώσκω), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. (Matthew 24:15-21). 

ἀναγινώσκω = to know certainly, recognize, discern etc. {1}

I did send a comment to Christopher and he responded: "..I think a call for unity is still appropriate, even if some will take it wrong. Gbu" I think he means to say that some Christians will misunderstand eschatology, but that unity takes priority. In superficial terms, this seems to be a good idea, and yet there are many reasons why we should strive to understand bible prophecy and reject false end-time scenarios. The line repeated by many false teachers is: Let's have unity at any cost never mind about doctrine? I hate this argument when it is used to gloss over serious issues. I agree entirely that we should seek unity wherever possible. However, when the call for unity clashes with sound doctrine then we must always stand on the side of the scriptures, and if this does cause division, then so be it. (1 Corinthians 11:19). 

I view eschatology as a vital subject. One-third of the Bible is devoted to prophesy, much of which is yet to be fulfilled. Are we really meant to be in ignorance regarding such large swathes of the scriptures? Tragically, the subject of eschatology is disregarded by many short-sighted bible teachers, and many believers are left in ignorance, despite the fact that global events appear to be lining up with biblical prophecy at an alarming rate.  The issue of complexity can be offputting because there are a number of details to work through and harmonize. Nevertheless, I am convinced that anyone who is prepared to study the scriptures will be able to rightly understand eschatology. 

Christopher's confusion summarized: The passages in Daniel 8 and 11 refer to Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Although Daniel 9 uses similar language to Daniel 8 and Daniel 11, it is obviously referring to a different event. Daniel 9 takes place in the Roman Empire as against the Grecian Empire. Daniel 9 refers to the destruction of the temple and the people of Israel rather than the corruption or defilement of the temple. Christopher's muddled point about 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 is perplexing. "Paul seems to refer back to Antiochus.. Daniel 8 and 11. Paul talks about it like its something that the believers at the time already knew was going to take place.. they had some future inkling of some future thing that was going to place and people will try to connect that with Matthew 24, when the context of Matthew 24 is talking about Daniel chapter 9, not Daniel 11 and 8..  When we connect 2 Thessalonians 2 with Matthew 24, maybe that is a possible thing to do. That is not the context of what is being said, but since it is similar language, maybe we can get some sort of inkling of understanding from the picture and the type and the object lesson of what happened in AD70 to what is going to happen in the future.." (15:30 mark).

There is no indication that Paul is referring back to Antiochus in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-6. In fact, Paul begins by defining the context: Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him.. (2 Thessalonians 2:1). Furthermore, "the man of lawlessness" is referred to by Paul as a future figure i.e. And then the lawless one will be revealed (ἀποκαλυφθήσεται), whom the Lord Jesus will kill (ἀνελεῖ) with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. (2 Thessalonians 2:8). The object is to sift through various passages to determine which sections refer to Antiochus, who is a type and shadow of the Antichrist, and which sections refer to the future Antichrist. I have added some links at the end of this post that shed some light on various questions regarding the rapture of the church. 

But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (Matthew 24:36-44).

1. Strong's Greek: 314. ἀναγινώσκω (anaginóskó) -- to know certainly, know again, read (biblehub.com)

Further Links

(16) There will be 1,290 days - Daniel 11–12 - Ryan Habbena - YouTube
(17) Bible Prophecy Talk - YouTube
(16) Alan Kurschner interview - Prewrath Rapture - YouTube
ESCHATOS MINISTRIES | Alan Kurschner, Ph.D. is the founder of Eschatos Ministries, teaching Bible prophecy from a futurist, premillennial, prewrath perspective.
7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

LEE BRAINARD'S APPALLING DISTORTION OF IRENAEUS!

(3) Explosive Pretrib Info — Irenaeus Was Pretrib — Irenaeus Linked to the Apostles - YouTube

The pre-trib rapture is a modern fiction that was introduced by deranged cult leader John Nelson Darby in the 19th century. The claim of a pre-trib rapture taught by the early Church Fathers was well and truly debunked when Thomas Ice and his associates tried to foist this falsehood onto the church some years ago. There is no trace of a pre-trib rapture either in the scriptures or in any documents prior to 1830. 

Lee Brainard refers to Irenaeus as "ground zero" for the patristic rapture debate for two reasons. (1) Irenaeus was the earliest Church Father to write extensively on eschatology; (2 ) His close proximity to the apostles' teaching via Polycarp who“was instructed by the apostles, and was brought into contact with many who had seen Christ.” {1} 

It is reprehensible that Brainard should continue to recycle previously debunked pre-trib arguments under the guise of doing "original research".

Against Heresies 5:29:1 And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. {2}

Brainard's argument summarised: "..the Church shall be suddenly caught up" precedes the phrase "there shall be tribulation". Brainard takes this wording as evidence for a pre-trib rapture without reference to context, or to Irenaeus' previous or subsequent assertions that support a post-trib rapture. As I have pointed out in a previous post, Brainard is simply recycling an old pre-trib argument by John Hart which was debunked by Alan Kurschner in 2019. Hart (and now Brainard) have misrepresented Irenaeus by taking a small portion of his writings entirely out of context. I recommend that those who are troubled by Brainard's pseudo-technical argument read Kurschner's article.

Kurschner: "In Hart’s proof text, I noticed that he conveniently omits the very next statement, where Irenaeus states: “For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption” (5.29.1).
Irenaeus states that the church will be caught up 'from this,' which he identifies as the great tribulation (cf. Matt 24:21, 31). So the question then is does 'from this' mean from before it happens or from as it is happening? Pretribs assume without any evidence that it means before it happens. But the statement that Hart carelessly omits constrains the meaning, which identifies “from this” with the period of great tribulation that the righteous will experience: 'For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption [resurrection].' Irenaeus is therefore linking 'the last contest of the righteous' with the period of great tribulation." {3}

Below are three significant passages from Against Heresies that refute Irenaeus' alleged support of the pre-trib rapture. 

 

Against Heresies 5.26.1 And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. {4}

Against Heresies 5.30.3-4 It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy [2 Thessalonians 4:1-12], than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved..   But he (Pau1) indicates the number of the name now, that when this man [the Antichrist] comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. {5}

Note that Irenaeus includes himself in the number of those preparing to identify the Antichrist. 

Against Heresies 5.35.1 For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule; in [the times of] which [resurrection] the righteous shall reign in the earth, waxing stronger by the sight of the Lord: and through Him they shall become accustomed to partake in the glory of God the Father, and shall enjoy in the kingdom intercourse and communion with the holy angels, and union with spiritual beings; and [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one. {6} 

Brainard's abysmal incompetence 

Against Heresies 5.25.4  And towards the end of their kingdom a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs. Daniel 8:23 etc. And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: And in the midst of the week, he says, the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete. Daniel 9:27 Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.

Brainard: "The tribulation saints are those who offer acceptable sacrifice to God, and the sacrifices here are associated with the temple service. The temple service here is regarded as a true or a pure sacrifice."  Brainard assumes that the Law of Moses has been reinstated during the 70th week of Daniel and that the temple sacrifices carried out by the Jews are "God honoured". This is heresy! We should take into account that the temple sacrifices are reinstated following the "covenant with many" between the Antichrist and Israel (and others?). Just as the animal sacrifices offered by Orthodox Jews are invalid at the present time, they will be equally invalid during the 70th week of Daniel. No other sacrifice is acceptable to God other than the sacrifice of Jesus Christ once for all.. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. (Hebrews 9:26).

Revelation 11:1-2 - Brainard's flawed proof text that "God accepts the temple and those that worship in it."  

Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Revelation 11:1-3). 

The timeframe and context of Revelation 11:1-14 does not allow for Brainard's conjecture that "God accepts the temple and those that worship in it". The two witnesses will minister during the second half of the seventieth week i.e. forty-two months/1,260 days, when sacrifice and offering have ceased. (Daniel 9:27 cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4). The parenthetical section from Revelation 10:1-11:14 refers to an interlude between the sixth and seventh trumpet judgements when the seventh seal is broken. (Revelation 8:1). Brainard himself recognizes that the time frame of the two witnesses refers to the second half of the seventieth week, otherwise known as the great tribulation. {7} Revelation 11:1 alludes to the millennial temple. (Ezekiel 40:3,6 cf. Zechariah 2:1, Amos 7:7-9). 

The obvious way to understand Against Heresies 5.25.4: And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: And in the midst of the week, he says, the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away.. "the saints" i.e. the church is referred to as they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God, not the Jews offering sacrifices in the temple during the first half of the 70th week. This interpretation agrees with the teaching of Jesus Christ: “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. (Matthew 24:20-22).

There is a terrible irony in Brainard's distortion of Irenaeus, who was at pains to defend the faith against heresy! Not only do pre-trib teachers twist the scriptures, they also have no qualms about twisting the words of the Church Fathers. (Acts 20:29; Revelation 22:18-19).

 

Every single Church Father who wrote on this subject taught that the church would face the Antichrist. 

Recommended: 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

1. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, III.3 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
2. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.29 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
3. Irenaeus Taught that the Church Would Face the Antichrist | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com
4. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.26 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
5. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.30 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
6. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.35 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
7. The Two Witnesses: When? - Soothkeep

ANDY WOODS' CHEAP SHOT AT THE PREWRATH RAPTURE!

(1) If You Only Knew | with Tom Hughes & Dr. Andy Woods - YouTube

In this episode of Hope For Our Times, rabid pre-trib teacher Andy Woods of Sugar Land Bible Church takes a cheap shot at the prewrath rapture. Woods argues that wrath (orgē) and tribulation (thlipsis) are synonyms in Romans 2:8-9. (27:00 mark). Since orgē and thlipsis are not synonymous anywhere else in the New Testament, why would these particular verses be an exception? Woods accuses the prewrath camp of playing a "semantic game". This accusation is very rich coming from the man who interprets apostasia as the rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, but I digress. (See Further Links) 

Woods: "..Romans 2:8-9 says 'tribulations' and 'wrath', those two words can overlap each other, even though they are different words.. Just because they are different words doesn't mean that they are compartmentalized the way that the prewrath rapture crowd have it.. So this kind of a semantic game you hear from a lot of these so-called prewrath rapturists.. That is what I am seeing in Revelation 6. I don't have to see the word 'wrath' right away to understand it's God's wrath because I know there is an overlap of tribulations and wrath when you study Romans 2 verses 8 and 9.. The prewrathers want to keep these things compartmentalized, but Romans 2 verses 8 and 9 won't let you do that. There is a semantic overlap in those words.. ..that overlap is what you do not see acknowledged by the prewrath rapturists, because they try to pretend like the initial judgements are really not done by Jesus, but by Satan or man, even though Jesus is obviously causing them by opening the seven-sealed scroll.. The compartmentalization that the prewrathers want isn't there as neatly and nicely as they make it sound." 

But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath (orgē) for yourself on the day of wrath (orgē) when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath (orgē) and fury (thumos). There will be tribulation (thlipsis) and distress (stenochōria) for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:5-11).

Romans 2:8-9 incorporates two separate pairs of descriptive nouns. There is an overlap between orgē and thumos, and also between thlipsis and stenochōria, but the two clauses are separate. 

orgé (wrath) anger, wrath, passion; punishment, vengeance fury.. {1}

thumos fury, anger, an outburst of passion, wrath. {2} 

thlipsis (tribulation) distress anguish and grief.. {3} 

stenochōria a narrow space, great distress, anguish. {4}

Thlipsis indicates suffering/distress/anguish/grief/persecution/affliction. e.g. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings (thlipsis), knowing that suffering (thlipsis) produces endurance.. (Romans 5:3 cf. Acts 14:2; Romans 8:35; 12:12; Revelation 2:9-10 etc.)

The two separate pairs of descriptive nouns in Romans 2:8-9 are intentionally evocative. Thlipsis and stenochōria communicate additional details regarding the full horrors in store for the unrighteous. Those who obey unrighteousness will be subject to God's wrath and fury i.e. judgement/punishment/vengeance.. (Romans 2:5,8 cf. Psalm 78:49). This punishment will involve or consist of tribulation/anguish/grief/distress.. (Romans 2:9). Paul's various expressions of wrath and tribulation emphasize the terrible fate of the unrighteous in graphic detail.

The context of the great tribulation

Jesus Christ Himself gives the parameters that define the great tribulation in the Olivet discourse. The great tribulation will begin immediately following the abomination of desolation event when the Antichrist takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak. How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, (thlipsis) unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.(Matthew 24:15-21)

Immediately after the tribulation (thlipsis) of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.. (Matthew 24:29-31).

As Woods affirms, the 70th week of Daniel is initiated by the opening of the seven-sealed scroll by Jesus Christ. However, the prewrath view does not define this period as the day of wrath as mentioned in Romans 2:5. The wrath of God is described variously as the day of the Lord, the great day of Their wrath, the great and the terrible day of the LORD etc. and is often alluded to as "that day". The day of the Lord is God's direct intervention from heaven. The wrath of God will begin after the tribulation and will follow the cosmic disturbances and the rapture. (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 5:9). 

Andy Woods repeated a comment I have heard him make previously. He remarked glibly that if they are wrong about bible prophecy: "we will have to redraw our prophecy charts." (23:00 mark) He and Tom Hughes were actually making a joke about this! When the time comes, I think it will be a bit more serious than that! (Matthew 12:36; 2 Corinthians 2:17; 2 Timothy 2:15; James 3:1). Frankly, the repercussions for pre-trib rapture teachers will be very serious indeed ~ their charts will be the last thing on their minds. (Luke 17:1). Tom Hughes (Hope For Our Times) regularly parades various prophecy teachers whose prophetic speculations are an unhelpful distraction. For instance, Bill Salus' various "Now" speculations; {5} Lee Brainard's distortion of the early Church Fathers; {6} adulterer Don Stewart who is disqualified; {7} not to mention innumerable Gog/Magog speculations, including Woods' isolated two-phase view. {8} Bible teachers should be preparing believers to stand during the great tribulation, but pre-trib teachers are doing the very opposite by raising false hopes and making jokes! It is likely that many believers may actually fall away because of this wicked teaching! (Matthew 24:10). Tom Hughes and his pre-trib friends are setting up believers for a terrible fall. If anyone is guilty of playing "semantic games" it is Andy Woods and his associates! (2 Timothy 3:13).

1. Strong's Greek: 3709. ὀργή (orgé) -- impulse, wrath (biblehub.com)
2. Strong's Greek: 2372. θυμός (thumos) -- passion (biblehub.com)
3. Strong's Greek: 2347. θλῖψις (thlipsis) -- tribulation (biblehub.com)
4. Strong's Greek: 4730. στενοχωρία (stenochória) -- narrowness of space, fig. difficulty (biblehub.com)
5. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: BILL SALUS: GOG MAGOG DANGEROUS SPECULATIONS (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
6. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: LEE BRAINARD''S PHONY TRANSLATION OF EUSEBIUS DOES NOT PROVE THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE! (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
7. Scattered Sheep: January 20, 2012 Show: My Perspective on Don Stewart (scatteredsheepreport.blogspot.com)
8. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: ANDY WOODS: GOG MAGOG TWO-PHASE VIEW (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

Further Links

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: apostasia: rebellion or rapture? thomas ice pre-tribulation rapture trickery!
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
(bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Rapture (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
(2) 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie) - YouTube

JOE SCHIMMEL BLESSED HOPE CHAPEL: RECAPITULATION VERSES TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2fetze4xBU

Rev Series: God's Grace Through the Book of Revelation

I have never heard Joe Schimmel give any kind of explanation as to why he teaches the recapitulation of the sixth seal, the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl in the book of Revelation. However, in this sermon, he does give a few very questionable reasons.

According to Schimmel, the sixth seal is a picture of the very end of the age i.e.Armageddon. (1:18 mark). However, there is no indication of Armageddon in Revelation 6. We see all the people hiding in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. There is no battle in Revelation 6. The only indication of the wrath of God is verse 17: the great day of Their wrath has come i.e. Their wrath is imminent.  

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place. Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?” (Revelation 6:12-17).

Schimmel: "This is proof that it backs up.. In chapter 7, he shows who is protected and sealed before the great day of his wrath comes so they can stand through it..  First he shows the 144000...  until the 144000, twelve tribes from each of the tribes of Israel are sealed in their foreheads before the trumpets blow.. In that way they won't partake in God's wrath because they will be sealed from it.. If you are a Christian you have already been sealed by the Holy Spirit..  If you are sealed and you are abiding in Christ you are protected.." 

After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice. “Salvation to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. (Revelation 7:9-11).

Schimmel's eisegesis of Revelation chapter 7:9-17 is abysmal! According to Schimmel, because the multitude are standing, they are standing during the wrath of God on the earth. Note that the angels are also standing in Revelation 7:11. Schimmel conflates Revelation 7:9 with stand/withstand in Revelation 6:17 which has an entirely different context: "Who is able to stand" (Revelation 6:17 cf. Malachi 3:2). 

The multitude are literally standing in heaven before the throne of God. It is interesting that they are wearing white robes and have palm branches in their hands, which indicates that they have resurrected bodies.

Why would the throne of God be located on earth in Revelation 7:9 when other passages both preceding and following this verse locate the throne in heaven? Revelation 6:16 refers to the One seated on the throne. Heaven is the backdrop to the unfolding events - Revelation 6:14: The sky (heaven/οὐρανὸς) vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up. The wrath of God is orchestrated from the throne of God in heaven. Revelation 8:1-4: When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and they were given seven trumpets. Then another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, rose up before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it to the earth; and there were peals of thunder, and rumblings, and flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.

Isaiah's Apocalypse (Isaiah 24-27)

Schimmel continues to demonstrate the folly of taking verses in isolation and out of context. In this case, he quotes Isaiah 26:20 in isolation. Schimmel: "We have been saved from the wrath to come, Amen. So we are not appointed to wrath.. Is there any scripture that kinda uses that imagery of us being protected at that time? (1:26 mark) Schimmel refers to the Passover when the wrath of God passed over the people of Israel due to the blood on their doorposts of lintels. (Exodus 12: 21-27). Undoubtedly there are parallels between the plagues described in the book of Exodus and the eschatological wrath of God in Revelation 15-16. However, Isaiah 26 demonstrates that the chambers are located in heaven and that the resurrection (rapture) precedes the eschatological wrath. In context, the resurrected saints enter their chambers in heaven. (John 14:2). The Lord "comes out from his place" i.e. heaven to administer the wrath. Instead of providing a proof text for his argument, this passage is very problematic for Schimmel's post-tribulation view.  

Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead. Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by. For behold, the LORD is coming out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, and the earth will disclose the blood shed on it, and will no more cover its slain. (Isaiah 26:19-21)

Schimmel's increasingly chaotic sermons are delivered at warp speed with many deviations and errors. I think that someone with little knowledge of the Book of Revelation would have a hard time keeping up with him. Schimmel admitted that he did not open his bible prior to delivering this sermon: "I just meditated and thought about each chapter.. and began to seek the Lord this morning."  (1:13 mark) I would suggest that in the future he does bother to open his bible and prepare properly! 

While it is a good thing to refute the pre-trib rapture, it is pure folly to replace error with error! Schimmel has mistaught the Book of Revelation for years. He seems oblivious to the fact that his eisegesis of the Book of Revelation is likely to cause confusion to those believers who are seeking a right understanding of the rapture. (2 Timothy 2:15).

Further Links 

 

Articles for Posttribulationism to Consider | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
THE REVELATION PROBLEM | 7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture
Why Isaiah 26:19–21 Supports the Prewrath View - Ep. 171 | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Joe Schimmel Blessed Hope Chapel (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

LEE BRAINARD'S FALSIFICATION OF THE CHURCH FATHERS: IRENAEUS WAS NOT PRE-TRIB!

(160) The Pre-trib Rapture Before Darby, Part 2 | TWIBP - YouTube

Lee Brainard: "In modern dispensationalism, when we use the word 'church' we are referring, not to all the saints of all the ages. We are referring only to the saints basically from the time of Christ forward..[Gonzalez: 'Pentecost forward'] to the saints of this age. And we would put the Old Testament saints and the tribulation saints under the heading of Israel and maybe Gentile proselytes to Israel. It is a very different idea.."

My objection to Brainard's dispensational mindset is that the pre-trib camp has moved the goalposts. The scriptures should dictate our definitions, not dispensationalism or any other tradition. We do not impose our terminology upon the scriptures, rather the scriptures should dictate our terminology. Just because dispensationalists argue that the church is a particular group of believers during a particular time frame does not make it so. For instance, the apostle Paul sometimes refers to "the saints" and at other times he refers to "the church" at specific locations. In other words, when "the saints" are referred to in the book of Revelation, we cannot make the assumption that they are a separate or secondary group of believers distinct from the church. 

To the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colossae" (Colossians 1:1).

To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours. (1 Corinthians 1:2).

Also it [the beast] was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation.. (Revelation 13:7).

Another instance of pre-trib revisionism is the redefinition of the tribulation period. The early fathers referred to the final 3.5 years of the seventieth week of Daniel as "the great tribulation" in agreement with the scriptures. The pre-trib camp has lengthened the tribulation period to encompass the entire 70th week of Daniel i.e. seven years, in order to suit their own agenda.  (Matthew 24:21) (See Further Links) 

Irenaeus - Against Heresies

Brainard gives three examples from Irenaeus Against Heresies that supposedly prove that he taught a pre-trib rapture. Although Irenaeus does make a distinction between the rapture and the second coming in Against Heresies 5.5.1, he indicates a prewrath rapture. In various other passages, Ireaneaus clearly states that the church will face the Antichrist prior to the rapture (see below). 

Against Heresies 5.25.4 And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: “And in the midst of the week,” he says, “the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.” Now three years and six months constitute the half-week. {1} 

Brainard's first example:

Against Heresies 5.5.1 For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him, thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just. Elijah, too, was caught up [when he was yet] in the substance of the [natural] form; thus exhibiting in prophecy the assumption of those who are spiritual, and that nothing stood in the way of their body being translated and caught up..  Wherefore also the elders who were disciples of the apostles tell us that those who were translated were transferred to that place (for paradise has been prepared for righteous men, such as have the Spirit; in which place also Paul the apostle, when he was caught up, heard words which are unspeakable as regards us in our present condition, and that there shall they who have been translated remain until the consummation [of all things], as a prelude to immortality. {2}

Above: Irenaeus makes a distinction between those who have been "translated" (the rapture) and "the consummation [of all things]", but a pre-trib rapture is not a concept that he is aware of. 

Brainard's Second Example:

Against Heresies 5:29:1 And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. {3}

Above: Brainard is recycling an old pre-trib argument by John Hart that was debunked by Alan Kurschner in 2019. Kurschner's response: "Irenaeus states that the church will be caught up 'from this,' which he identifies as the great tribulation (cf. Matt 24:21, 31). So the question then is does 'from this' mean from before it happens or from as it is happening? Pretribs assume without any evidence that it means before it happens. But the statement that Hart carelessly omits constrains the meaning, which identifies “from this” with the period of great tribulation that the righteous will experience: 'For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption [resurrection].' Irenaeus is therefore linking 'the last contest of the righteous' with the period of great tribulation." {4}

In the same chapter Irenaeus continues to compare the time of the Antichrist with the wickedness of Nebuchadnezzar and the resistance of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego (Hebrew names ~Ananias, Azarias, and Misael) in Daniel 3; and also the six hundred years of Noah and the number of the beast. (Genesis 7:6). Irenaeus confirms that this pattern of events will be recapitulated during the time of the Antichrist, culminating in “a cataclysm of fire.. [upon the earth].”

Against Heresies, 5.29.2 And there is therefore in this beast, when he comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire. Fittingly, therefore, shall his name possess the number six hundred and sixty-six, since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels. For Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge came upon the earth, sweeping away the rebellious world, for the sake of that most infamous generation which lived in the times of Noah. And [Antichrist] also sums up every error of devised idols since the flood, together with the slaying of the prophets and the cutting off of the just. For that image which was set up by Nebuchadnezzar had indeed a height of sixty cubits, while the breadth was six cubits; on account of which Ananias, Azarias, and Misael, when they did not worship it, were cast into a furnace of fire, pointing out prophetically, by what happened to them, the wrath against the righteous which shall arise towards the [time of the] end. For that image, taken as a whole, was a prefiguring of this man’s coming, decreeing that he should undoubtedly himself alone be worshipped by all men. Thus, then, the six hundred years of Noah, in whose time the deluge occurred because of the apostasy, and the number of the cubits of the image for which these just men were sent into the fiery furnace, do indicate the number of the name of that man in whom is concentrated the whole apostasy of six thousand years, and unrighteousness, and wickedness, and false prophecy, and deception; for which things’ sake a cataclysm of fire shall also come [upon the earth]. {5} 

Brainard's third example:

Against Heresies 5.31.1 For as the Lord went away in the midst of the shadow of death, where the souls of the dead were, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven], it is manifest that the souls of His disciples also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, shall go away into the invisible place allotted to them by God, and there remain until the resurrection, awaiting that event; then receiving their bodies, and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come thus into the presence of God. {6}

Above: Irenaeus mentions the rapture (resurrection), but once again he does not specify a pre-trib rapture.

Below are three significant passages from Against Heresies that refute the pre-trib rapture.

 

Against Heresies 5.26.1 And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. {7}

Against Heresies 5.30.3-4 It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy [2 Thessalonians 4:1-12], than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved..   But he (Pau1) indicates the number of the name now, that when this man [the Antichrist] comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. {8}

Against Heresies 5.35.1 For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule; in [the times of] which [resurrection] the righteous shall reign in the earth, waxing stronger by the sight of the Lord: and through Him they shall become accustomed to partake in the glory of God the Father, and shall enjoy in the kingdom intercourse and communion with the holy angels, and union with spiritual beings; and [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one. {9} 

Every single Church Father who wrote on this subject taught that the church would face the Antichrist. 

I repeat that pre-trib rapture teachers are nothing less than false prophets who are setting up the church for a terrible fall! (Matthew 24:10-11). Brainard says nothing new - he is simply regurgitating old pre-trib arguments that have been previously debunked. Given the abundant evidence from various church fathers (e.g. The Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermes, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Cyprian), I wonder how Brainard can, in all conscience, dredge up these old arguments and pretend that he is doing "original research". 

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).

I recently heard Andy Woods (another rabid pre-trib rapture teacher) glibly remark that if things do not pan out how they expect them to, they will have to redraw their prophecy charts. Frankly, the repercussions for pre-trib rapture teachers will be very serious indeed ~ their charts will be the last thing on their minds. (Luke 17:1). Are Lee Brainard, Mondo Gonzalez (Prophecy Watchers) and others, prepared to repent and take responsibility for propagating the lethal pre-trib deception initiated by the insane cult leader John Nelson Darby? 

1. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.25 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
2. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.5 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
3. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.29 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
4. Irenaeus Taught that the Church Would Face the Antichrist | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com
5. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.29 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
6. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.31 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
7. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.26 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
8. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.30 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)
9. CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, V.35 (St. Irenaeus) (newadvent.org)

Further Links

https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-seven-year-tribulation-fallacy.html
On Antichrist's Persecution of the Church: Epistle of Barnabas, Shepherd of Hermas, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Cyprian | Early Church Fathers - Ep. 71 | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Lee Brainard (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: PSEUDO-EPHRAEM TAUGHT PRETRIB - NOT! BY DAVE MACPHERSON (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture

LEE BRAINARD'S PRE-TRIB RAPTURE HYPE

(159) The Pre-trib Rapture Before Darby, Part 1 | TWIBP - YouTube

The "ten sayings" Brainard claims to have found in Ephraim to prove a pre-tribulation rapture is duplicitous. Brainard does not provide pre-trib rapture evidence from either Pseudo Ephraim (Ephrem the Syrian) or Eusebius. Furthermore, Brainard's claim that he is doing original research is patently untrue. Extensive research has already been undertaken by bible scholars, and these sources have been rejected as proof texts for the pre-trib rapture. There is no scriptural evidence to support the pre-trib rapture, and furthermore, no early church father claimed that the church would be raptured before the arrival of the Antichrist!

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).

When the early fathers referred to the tribulation, they referred to the "great tribulation" i.e. the final 3.5 years of the seven-year period known as the 70th week of Daniel. (Matthew 24:21). The pre-trib camp has redefined the tribulation period to seven years in order to suit their own disingenuous agenda. (See further links) If Lee Brainard and Mondo Gonzalez (Prophecy Watchers) have any fear of the Lord or any regard for the truth, they really need to stop this nonsense. Pre-trib teachers are nothing less than false prophets who are setting up the church for a terrible fall! (Matthew 24:10-11)

Please also refer to Dave MacPherson's article on this subject written in 2017: 

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: PSEUDO-EPHRAEM TAUGHT PRETRIB - NOT! BY DAVE MACPHERSON (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

Further Links

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Lee Brainard (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com
St. Irenaeus: Against Heresies: Book V - Christian Classics Ethereal Library (ccel.org)

CALEB CORNELOUP (I THINK BIBLICALLY): IS THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE VIEW A SALVATION ISSUE?

(83) Is The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Biblical? - YouTube

Caleb Corneloup (I Think Biblically) recently posted the above video rejecting the pre-trib rapture view. While he made some good points, he did not go into much depth, and he does not understand that the post-trib rapture view is also problematic. Unfortunately, Caleb removed my comment on YouTube. I will therefore repeat and expand on my comment in this post.

I get weary of people saying that certain teachings "are not a salvation issue". This statement trivializes the seriousness of scriptural deviation. ALL false teaching has consequences sooner or later! We may not see the effects straight away, but damage to the body of Christ will show itself sooner or later. What may appear to be minimal departures from the scriptures often lead to further departures and compromise. Those who tell us what is and is not necessary teaching have become arbiters and go beyond their remit. The danger of drifting away from sound doctrine and ending up in serious apostasy by degree is very real. (Hebrews 2:1; 1 Timothy 4:16; Galatians 5:9).  

You shall be careful therefore to do as the LORD your God has commanded you. You shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. (Deuteronomy 5:32 cf. Deuteronomy 17:20, 28:14; Joshua 1:7; 2 Kings 22:2).

Catch the foxes for us, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards, for our vineyards are in blossom.” (Song of Solomon 2:15).

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.. (2 Timothy 3:16).

Caleb Corneloup: "This is not a salvation issue by any means and we need to be very careful that we do not make this a salvation issue. If you try to say that someone is not saved because of a particular view on the rapture then you are really adding to the doctrine of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. You are making a particular view of the rapture a necessity for salvation and that is teaching a works gospel. You need to be very very careful that you don't do that." 

I do not dispute that at the present time, there are genuine Christians who believe the pre-trib rapture view. However at a later date, at the onset of the great tribulation, the failure of the pre-trib rapture will be a critical matter for those who cling to this false hope. As I have said before, many pre-tribbers will be caught off guard by the persecution of the Antichrist. The risk of falling away due to dashed hopes, shock, confusion and lack of preparation is very real. (Proverbs 13:12). In other words, at some point in the future, during the great tribulation, the pre-trib rapture view will become a salvation issue. 

And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. (Matthew 24:10-13).

The pre-trib rapture doctrine dominates the teaching of Andy Woods, Jan Markell, Amir Tsafarti, JD Farag and many others. They consistently churn out videos defending this view in spite of the fact that when tested, the evidence for a pre-trib rapture is questionable. (1 John 4:1). Pre-trib teachers should be mindful that the doctrines they so vigorously maintain are not a stumbling block to the body of Christ. (Psalm 40:4; James 3:1).

In 2017, pre-trib teacher JD Farag in conversation with Jan Markell and Amir Tsarfati made the insane accusation that anyone who attacks the pre-trib rapture is "satanic". Farag: "This is not hyperbole. If it were not for the blessed hope of the soon return of Jesus Christ in the (imminent, pre-trib) rapture…I would go literally insane. I would lose my mind. Amir Tsarfati interjected with, 'I wouldn’t live. I would not be able to handle what my eyes see – the evil and the darkness is such that the likes of which we have never seen in human history.'" 

I view pre-trib teachers as false teachers/prophets, even though they may teach sound doctrine in other respects. Many pastors and teachers need to repent due to the fact that they go with the flow and have put denominational loyalty above the scriptures. 

Caleb needs to go much deeper into this subject as his present stance is very short-sighted. I would also point out that the "seven year tribulation" is a pre-trib fallacy. The scriptures tell us repeatedly, in no uncertain terms, that the great tribulation will last for 3.5 years. {1}

1. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION FALLACY (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)

Further Links

Articles for Posttribulationism to Consider | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)
7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture
Clarifying the Differences between the Pre-Wrath and Post-Trib Rapture Viewpoints | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES (alankurschner.com)