The primary lesson is that we should not give any opportunity for the enemy to make mischief among us. Although it was unedited, Global Vison24/7tv's excerpt of the Q&A video David Nathan's Right of Reply at Bill Randle's church ended prematurely, before Bill Randles objection to David Nathan's comment about the blood of Jesus during the millennium. {1} This was unfortunate, and it has resulted in further unpleasantness. As David Lister says, the video resulted in "misleading viewers from the factual reality seen on the unedited video." Moriel's subsequent video does give us a fuller picture, although that video is problematic in that it was manipulated in Prasch's favour! {2} The Moriel video has made it very difficult for those of us who, despite our reservations, have attempted to support David Nathan, believing him to be an innocent victim. Another problem is that David Nathan's old video of the "healing jacket" was in fact put up on YouTube in June of this year. Why would Bread of Life Ministries air a false teaching that was retracted by Nathan years ago?
Nevertheless, Prasch's false intra-seal theory that he has taught as doctrine on a number of occasions is an enormous issue. Also outstanding is the question of his ecumenical association with David Noakes and Clifford Hill of Issachar Ministries. Prasch has consistently ignored these serious matters, but they bear witness to the fact that he is no better than other false teachers. I think there is a word for that somewhere! (Matthew 7:1-5).
Both Lister and Prasch reject Nathan's false teaching that a personal word from the Lord is co-equal with the written Word of God. I am not sure that David Nathan has actually taught this, but I agree. that we test everything by the scriptures. (1 John 4:1; Acts 17:11). David Noakes' "prophecies" do present a problem in this respect however since he has the presumption to prophesy in the first person of the Lord. If a "prophet" speaks in the first person of the Lord, he is, by definition, speaking the very words of God. In this particular case, technically, Noakes' "prophecies" are supposedly co-equal with the written Word! Perhaps Prasch would like to illuminate us on this point?
LETTER FROM MORIEL TO STUDIO SCOTLAND & GV 24/7 - 29TH OCTOBER , 2018
To : Mr. Stuart Menelaws
Studio Scotland
Fife, Scotland, UK
Studio Scotland
Fife, Scotland, UK
Dear Sir
I am writing in my capacity as International Administrator for Moriel Ministries.
As you are aware, the Moriel board has determined various teachings of Mr. David Nathan, formerly associated with Moriel, to be false and heretical.
We reject Mr. Nathan’s denial of the Gospel not being eternal and the Blood of Jesus not being eternally efficacious while the blood of millennial animals will be. Here, we are in agreement with the public letter in this regard by Pastor Bill Randles. We further reject David Nathan's false teaching of a personal word from The Lord being co-equal with the Written Word of God, and his insistence that God The Father is not the Creator and that The Father never created anything. We additionally reject as categorically false the teaching posted on the internet on the 24th of June of this year that Christians can pray the anointing of God into the fabric of a jacket or tie.
While we accept Studio Scotland and GV24/7 have the legal right to promote and promulgate such a heretical "ministry", it is something with which we want no association. Our board was frankly shocked to see that you had edited the Q&A video of Jacob Prasch and David Nathan at Pastor Randle's church, misleading viewers from the factual reality seen on the unedited video.
When Jacob Prasch agreed to appear in your films 'The Daniel Project' and 'The Daniel Connection', he did so in good faith as unto The Lord for evangelistic aims. He received no remuneration as did the secular actors in your films, nor did he ask for any. We know at least one of these films, and possibly both have been sold to secular interests. Jacob Prasch did not do these films 'gratis' for commercial reasons but as a faith based enterprise only.. Neither he, nor his board wish material featuring him in film, orally, in name, image, or otherwise being distributed by an organisation promoting what we can only deem as heresy, nor have his name or work misused for commercial purposes in any non Evangelical enterprise.
Moriel is is also in total harmony with those pastors, churches, and ministries that have banned David Nathan as a false teacher such as Tony Pearce, John Haller, Pastor Charles, The Christian Ministers Fellowship International (CMFI), Genesis Radio & TV and various others.
We respectfully request therefore that you immediately remove these two videos having Jacob Prasch and any other containing any narration by Jacob Prasch. We are a ministry, not a business, and we uphold scriptural truth, we do seek not any alliance with those merchandising such serious doctrinal error of a blatantly heretical and very serious nature.
Kindly remove aforementioned titles featuring Jacob Prasch. Neither he, nor we wish his name to be even be associated with Studio Scotland.
Sincerely,
David Lister
**DISCLAIMER** The Moriel Facebook page is for posting announcements. It is not a forum for open discussion and/or debate. To limit this, we have opted to hide ALL comments from ALL users. We reserve the right to delete any comments or ban any disruptive users. We highly encourage everyone to private message us with their comments or concerns. {3}
{1} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD2y77fF7sk
Official Response to David Lister for distribution
FAO: Mr David Lister
Moriel Ministries USA
Moriel Missions UK
Date: 7th November 2018
I always make myself available to meet and discuss challenges that life can bring, particularly where conflict may arise and yesterday I replied to a disparaging email from Jacob Prasch with the intent to see if we could meet to discuss recent events – his response was both unhelpful and shameful. To that end I have been counselled to keep my reply to your organisation only to the subject of the production questions raised.
The following information is given in accordance with PACT industry regulations during the period 2006-2010 covering documentary production and distribution.
::The Daniel Project television documentary::
Mr Prasch was one of 10 participants to be interviewed who claimed a specific knowledge on related subject matter. In accordance with regulations governing the use of interviews within a documentary format for terrestrial television, interviews must be conducted with no payment so as to confirm a non-bias agenda (expenses only are normally covered unless waived).
Payment may only be made to professional presenters or voice-over artists in accordance with the type of contract agreed in writing. Presenters are not deemed expert witnesses but merely actors. Every professional documentary or film project is subject to very strict rules and under no circumstances would a film be acquired by any distributor or broadcaster if the substantial paperwork necessary was incomplete.
After stringent legal processes, productions are acquired by a distributor(s) (they are not sold by the production company) whereby the producers (Studio Scotland Ltd) must sign away all rights but are still liable for all broadcast compliance files, insurance, lawyers, clearance, classification, translation and marketing costs. This is standard procedure. The distributor is the one who leases the production to a broadcaster for a fixed term and agreed rate which we may eventually see a proportion of once all their costs are covered. This can take several years because the remuneration is small and the distributors have to cover the cost of their stand and associated expenses to travel to a film market or festival in order to ‘sell’ our particular film – amongst the thousands of others that are also vying for attention.
Mr Prasch signed a full release contract form in accordance with ‘The Producers Alliance for Cinema and Television’ broadcast standards, a copy of which, if requested may only be sent to Mr Prasch at his personal request or a legal body acting on his behalf. If Mr Prasch would like to receive a copy of said document please ask him to send an SAE to our studio with a signed covering letter. This will be dealt with promptly.
The signed contract is with Mr Prasch and not any bodies or groups he is a part of. By law we cannot divulge personal contractual information to a third party. Removal from commercial films is not possible. Studio Scotland has no rights over both productions. This is standard practice.
::In regard to Mr Prasch’s request to share his beliefs within an evangelistic format::
Proselytisation within a TV documentary format will be rejected under European broadcast standards, however, in keeping with this request, this was made possible by Studio Scotland via an ‘extras’ section available on an approved DVD and on free digital download for The Daniel Project. The distributor at that time ‘Mercury Media International Ltd’ gave approval (not usual for a distributor) in allowing many churches, and faith based organisations all over the world to use the film as an outreach tool as long as no payments were made – hundreds of showings in churches, halls, hotels, prisons, army camps and universities were granted free licenses. We have a substantial file of emails from churches, pastors, educators and individuals around the world, who have been positively impacted by watching or showing the production. There is also a tiny selection of many hundreds of reviews listed on the official website.
The production was translated to Brazilian Portuguese and Hispanic Spanish for use across South America – and could also be understood by Europeans who didn’t understand English - and we also provided English Subtitles for Hard of Hearing. All of that at a cost of many thousands of dollars. Controversial TV documentaries have strict translation guidelines and must be passed once again through the legal, insurance and certification system. Like everything else, this was financed solely by Studio Scotland. We have not recovered the costs for doing this.
With a legally cleared South American DVD master, we have since been able to supply various ministries reaching out to those communities with 100s of DVDs in card folders at the cost of physical production and delivery. Hundreds if not thousands of DVDs have been given away free of charge and our production / mastering house near London has a record of every DVD produced. This is a requirement in regard to library footage licencing as The Daniel Project has over 100 library licences which we must adhere to as another legal requirement.
::The Daniel CONNECTION feature film::
The Daniel CONNECTION feature film was made for those who would not watch a documentary and has the same aims as The Daniel Project. It has a different distributor, rules and regulations, Studio Scotland Ltd are still thousands of dollars in debt to the distributor and that is before payments can be made to recover costs for production. This is standard for the industry and is clearly understood by professionals within the media. All actors are paid during production in accordance with their agency contracts along with point system benefits after full recovery costs for those eligible. This is a standard practice for cinematic production.
::Commercial gain?::
Three international broadcasters/distributors and an international DVD distributor (servicing supermarkets and book stores worldwide) asked us to re-edit the documentary and in some cases to incorporate other spiritual beliefs to be more in-line with their broadcast policies, which in turn would have enabled Mercury Media and Studio Scotland to gain financially. We refused and those broadcasters/distribution outlets rejected The Daniel Project. We believed it to be important to remain true to the original format and to have integrity in all our dealings.
::In Summary::
Based on an original cable TV /Video resource produced by Stewart and Deborah Menelaws, ‘Cup of Trembling- countdown to Armageddon’ in 1996, ‘The Daniel Project’ was without doubt, one of the most ground breaking terrestrial TV documentaries of its time, working within the strict confines imposed on production covering faith based subjects. As a secular project within a secular environment it has touched the lives of millions via a wide range of networks world-wide.
Tragically, in recent years, a number of Christian based distribution outlets regretfully will no longer stock ‘The Daniel Project’ DVD – and it is Mr Prasch’s behaviour and conduct that has been cited as the issue. Sales of the actual DVD are almost non-existent. The documentary itself is currently showing on Amazon Prime TV and was acquired by the multi award winning documentary distributor ‘Journeyman Pictures’’. All distribution rights belong to them (they acquired Mercury Media resources who went into liquidation owing us royalties). The film continues to touch lives on secular media – and that is who and what it was made for.
::Mr Prasch appearing / removal on faith based media::
In regard to Mr Prasch appearing on our free to view subsidiary Global Vision TV at GV247.TV which is a non-profit part of the company but is required to be connected due to licensing contracts with interviews, film, video and imagery, we had already taken steps to remove Mr Prasch. We are still in the process of clearing his image from various files and whilst this will take time, please be assured, we have made that a priority.
Sincerely: Stewart Menelaws
Managing Director
Studio Scotland Ltd
FAO: Mr David Lister
Moriel Ministries USA
Moriel Missions UK
Date: 7th November 2018
I always make myself available to meet and discuss challenges that life can bring, particularly where conflict may arise and yesterday I replied to a disparaging email from Jacob Prasch with the intent to see if we could meet to discuss recent events – his response was both unhelpful and shameful. To that end I have been counselled to keep my reply to your organisation only to the subject of the production questions raised.
The following information is given in accordance with PACT industry regulations during the period 2006-2010 covering documentary production and distribution.
::The Daniel Project television documentary::
Mr Prasch was one of 10 participants to be interviewed who claimed a specific knowledge on related subject matter. In accordance with regulations governing the use of interviews within a documentary format for terrestrial television, interviews must be conducted with no payment so as to confirm a non-bias agenda (expenses only are normally covered unless waived).
Payment may only be made to professional presenters or voice-over artists in accordance with the type of contract agreed in writing. Presenters are not deemed expert witnesses but merely actors. Every professional documentary or film project is subject to very strict rules and under no circumstances would a film be acquired by any distributor or broadcaster if the substantial paperwork necessary was incomplete.
After stringent legal processes, productions are acquired by a distributor(s) (they are not sold by the production company) whereby the producers (Studio Scotland Ltd) must sign away all rights but are still liable for all broadcast compliance files, insurance, lawyers, clearance, classification, translation and marketing costs. This is standard procedure. The distributor is the one who leases the production to a broadcaster for a fixed term and agreed rate which we may eventually see a proportion of once all their costs are covered. This can take several years because the remuneration is small and the distributors have to cover the cost of their stand and associated expenses to travel to a film market or festival in order to ‘sell’ our particular film – amongst the thousands of others that are also vying for attention.
Mr Prasch signed a full release contract form in accordance with ‘The Producers Alliance for Cinema and Television’ broadcast standards, a copy of which, if requested may only be sent to Mr Prasch at his personal request or a legal body acting on his behalf. If Mr Prasch would like to receive a copy of said document please ask him to send an SAE to our studio with a signed covering letter. This will be dealt with promptly.
The signed contract is with Mr Prasch and not any bodies or groups he is a part of. By law we cannot divulge personal contractual information to a third party. Removal from commercial films is not possible. Studio Scotland has no rights over both productions. This is standard practice.
::In regard to Mr Prasch’s request to share his beliefs within an evangelistic format::
Proselytisation within a TV documentary format will be rejected under European broadcast standards, however, in keeping with this request, this was made possible by Studio Scotland via an ‘extras’ section available on an approved DVD and on free digital download for The Daniel Project. The distributor at that time ‘Mercury Media International Ltd’ gave approval (not usual for a distributor) in allowing many churches, and faith based organisations all over the world to use the film as an outreach tool as long as no payments were made – hundreds of showings in churches, halls, hotels, prisons, army camps and universities were granted free licenses. We have a substantial file of emails from churches, pastors, educators and individuals around the world, who have been positively impacted by watching or showing the production. There is also a tiny selection of many hundreds of reviews listed on the official website.
The production was translated to Brazilian Portuguese and Hispanic Spanish for use across South America – and could also be understood by Europeans who didn’t understand English - and we also provided English Subtitles for Hard of Hearing. All of that at a cost of many thousands of dollars. Controversial TV documentaries have strict translation guidelines and must be passed once again through the legal, insurance and certification system. Like everything else, this was financed solely by Studio Scotland. We have not recovered the costs for doing this.
With a legally cleared South American DVD master, we have since been able to supply various ministries reaching out to those communities with 100s of DVDs in card folders at the cost of physical production and delivery. Hundreds if not thousands of DVDs have been given away free of charge and our production / mastering house near London has a record of every DVD produced. This is a requirement in regard to library footage licencing as The Daniel Project has over 100 library licences which we must adhere to as another legal requirement.
::The Daniel CONNECTION feature film::
The Daniel CONNECTION feature film was made for those who would not watch a documentary and has the same aims as The Daniel Project. It has a different distributor, rules and regulations, Studio Scotland Ltd are still thousands of dollars in debt to the distributor and that is before payments can be made to recover costs for production. This is standard for the industry and is clearly understood by professionals within the media. All actors are paid during production in accordance with their agency contracts along with point system benefits after full recovery costs for those eligible. This is a standard practice for cinematic production.
::Commercial gain?::
Three international broadcasters/distributors and an international DVD distributor (servicing supermarkets and book stores worldwide) asked us to re-edit the documentary and in some cases to incorporate other spiritual beliefs to be more in-line with their broadcast policies, which in turn would have enabled Mercury Media and Studio Scotland to gain financially. We refused and those broadcasters/distribution outlets rejected The Daniel Project. We believed it to be important to remain true to the original format and to have integrity in all our dealings.
::In Summary::
Based on an original cable TV /Video resource produced by Stewart and Deborah Menelaws, ‘Cup of Trembling- countdown to Armageddon’ in 1996, ‘The Daniel Project’ was without doubt, one of the most ground breaking terrestrial TV documentaries of its time, working within the strict confines imposed on production covering faith based subjects. As a secular project within a secular environment it has touched the lives of millions via a wide range of networks world-wide.
Tragically, in recent years, a number of Christian based distribution outlets regretfully will no longer stock ‘The Daniel Project’ DVD – and it is Mr Prasch’s behaviour and conduct that has been cited as the issue. Sales of the actual DVD are almost non-existent. The documentary itself is currently showing on Amazon Prime TV and was acquired by the multi award winning documentary distributor ‘Journeyman Pictures’’. All distribution rights belong to them (they acquired Mercury Media resources who went into liquidation owing us royalties). The film continues to touch lives on secular media – and that is who and what it was made for.
::Mr Prasch appearing / removal on faith based media::
In regard to Mr Prasch appearing on our free to view subsidiary Global Vision TV at GV247.TV which is a non-profit part of the company but is required to be connected due to licensing contracts with interviews, film, video and imagery, we had already taken steps to remove Mr Prasch. We are still in the process of clearing his image from various files and whilst this will take time, please be assured, we have made that a priority.
Sincerely: Stewart Menelaws
Managing Director
Studio Scotland Ltd
{2} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeRUtdJpuXE&t=1384s
{3} https://www.facebook.com/MorielTV/posts/2146077629043983?__tn__=K-R
Please explain more fully what Studio Scotland have done that was factually incorrect or misleading, and please tell me where I can find that statement by David Lister. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteThe links on the end of the post give both the edited and unedited videos, and the statement by David Lister is also on the post. God bless.
ReplyDeleteThe really sad thing about this situation is that it seems increasingly likely that ALL the parties involved have sown the seeds of their own destruction. But they are ALL too blind to see it. As they ALL hope to see the other side destroyed they ALL bit by bit destroy themselves, their reputations and their ministries. It would be bitterly laughable if it weren't a tragedy of epic Shakespearean proportions.
ReplyDeleteI have opposed Prasch for some time due to his false intra-seal theory and his association with known ecumenicals.
ReplyDeleteDavid Nathan did initially get my vote of sympathy, but he has been caught out twice now with half truths and misinformation. It is a very serious situation when a leader's testimony cannot be trusted!
In my view, both these ministries make a mockery of all the bible says about leaders being "examples to the flock". (1 Peter 5:3).
There is a higher standard required of teachers. (James 3:1).
God bless.
As you say we should not bear false witness. The video with Stewart Menelaws is sickening to watch. I also think Menelaws should not have mentioned legal action which is something we cannot do to one another as believers as I’m sure he and Nathan are aware of. Nathan is a false teacher. End of story in my view.
ReplyDeleteDavid Nathan has now issued a rebuttal on his FB page.
ReplyDeleteDavid Nathan: "An audio clip, out of context does not represent my beliefs. Without trying to appear defensive, there is a concerted effort being made by some to paint me as a heretic and they will stop at nothing to misrepresent what I actually believe and teach. I attach a link to an article that I was asked to contribute to the "Africa Journal of Pentecostal Studies" in 2007 that clearly shows that I do not believe that Jesus created independently of the Father"
This circus has taken many twists and turns and is verging on the insane! Prasch has obviously decided to embark upon a witch hunt against David Nathan.. although the Menelaws have not helped. It is incredible how Prasch dares to accuse anyone of false teaching considering his own plank. (Matthew 7). The latest is his teaching about "counting the Omer". It appears that attack is the best form of defence.
God bless.
It has now come to light that Prasch's so called "evidence" against David Nathan's teaching that God the Father did not create anything is a false accusation. We can now add "bearing false witness" to Prasch's many other problems! (Exodus 20:16).
ReplyDelete“You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness." (Exodus 23:1).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eFrSFONh9Q
On the above video Prasch also rejects David Nathan's teaching that a personal word from the Lord is co-equal with the written Word of God. How true this further accusation is difficult to say since Prasch's so called "evidence" is highly questionable.
As mentioned in the main body of the text, David Noakes speaks in the first person of the Lord. Therefore, by definition it is the Lord Himself speaking through him, albeit that he is an "ecumenical prophet"!!! Perhaps Prasch would like to clarify whether Noakes' various "prophecies" are the Word of the Lord or not?
Comments are closed on this video or I would ask the question.
Firstly, I would do my homework& judge righteously. Anyone who loves the truth would not take partiality into account& judge with righteous judgement. I watched the videos when a hit piece was put out about Moriel& Jacob Prasch. I watched the unedited videos, because I want to know what truly happened. This has nothing to do with Jacob Prasch, rather David Nathan has plainly stated that the blood of Jesus would not benefit anyone at millennial reign, but the blood of animals would. That, my friend is heresy; plain& simple. I dont need to hear anything else because this is clearly against scripture. That's it. On behalf of the Father not creating anything; again I listened to David Nathan's actual teaching; that he uploaded& yes He absolutely did say that God the Father did not create anything.
DeleteThis is a direct quote "But the Father did not do the creating, Jesus did by the will of the Father and as we saw in Genesis chapter1 the Holy Spirit being present possibly was a involved in the creation as well". I am not sure where your getting your information& I say that very sincerely. But I would advise everyone involved to be thorough before judging this situation. Also, please stop using emotion or partiality as discernment. This is ridiculous& everyone commenting without knowing what truly happened; is also accountable before the Lord for slandering& gossiping. The crazy thing is this David Nathan has kept up the teachings& there is actually concrete proof; which shows me one fact. He is deceptive and has erred from the Faith. He also is sowing in discord& acting in vengeance for being called out.
There is the link
https://youtu.be/jGuCiRUvriM
David Nathan: "He (Jesus) is the creator. He is the one that created - but as we know from scripture, because God is a perfect unity they work as one - that Jesus did not act independently of the Father. Amen.." (12:00 mark). https://youtu.be/jGuCiRUvriM I have no argument with David Nathan's statement above from the link you have provided. I have no partiality towards David Nathan at all. In fact I do not agree with him about the millennium.
DeleteGod bless.
Where do you get that it's a false accusation? Audio exists where David Nathan clearly says “Jesus Christ was the Creator. God the Father created nothing”.
ReplyDeleteHe was taken out of context apparently.
ReplyDeleteMoriel's Dispute With David Nathan - A Chronological Sequence of Events:
https://www.bolm.co.za/#xl_xr_page_moriel%20dispute
God bless
What other meaning does "God the Father created nothing" have?
ReplyDeleteDavid Nathan has provided evidence that this is not what he has taught in the past. He has also made it clear since this accusation that he believes that the Father, and in fact all three members of the Godhead, were involved in creation. I don't know what more we can reasonably ask of him?
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
Brother Prasch played unedited video where David Nathan clearly said the things which caused
ReplyDeletethe controversy. And Nathan's teaching about the praying into articles of clothing, and the inefficacy of Jesus blood and that God the Father created nothing were not taken out of context and they were not old teachings which were retracted. You Ms. Gisborn seem to have a a personal grudge against this brother who has a passion for God's truth
I have tried to remain unbiased Thomas.
ReplyDeleteI have seen the evidence David Nathan put up about the triune God in creation and I do believe him on this particular point.
As for the Holy Spirit/clothing problem - this was in fact an old teaching. However, I do wonder why David Nathan kept a false teaching like this up on YouTube.
I agree that David Nathan's theory about the blood of Jesus during the millennium was not right. However I understand that he now regrets teaching this theory assertively. If a brother repents then we should not keep bringing it up.
The way that this has been dealt with by Prasch has been brutal.
If God forgives us we have no right to judge others in such a harsh way.
I would agree that some serious mistakes have been made by BOLM.
I have no grudge against Jacob Prasch I can assure you. I would back him up to the hilt if I thought that he was a good teacher. However, I do have grave concerns about his eschatology.
God bless
Having had some communication with Deborah Menelaws about the concerns over Bill Randles comment at the end of the video, she has written the following:
ReplyDelete"Thank you for doing an explanation re the DN video clip. We categorically state that Jacob Prasch lied when he accused us of editing the video clip we showed. It was in the context of what David was being blamed for as it had changed from the millennium to him not believing at all that The Blood of Christ cleanses."
"Bill made a statement and David agreed with it - before God as our witness, we are puzzled about the reaction as it was just one small point in the midst of the rest of what David had to say and there was NEVER any even an iota of an attempt to mislead anybody - that is not how we work - ever. That is why we were so shocked at this reaction.
I'll leave it there - but it is part of the defamation claim that Jacob says we lied, were disingenuous and that we edited it and all sorts which is completely and utterly false."