Joe Schimmel takes his post-tribulation rapture view from the unreliable and utterly confused third century Church Father, Victorinus of Pettau. Victorinus' commentary on the book of Revelation is the source mentioned by Joe Schimmel Blessed Hope Chapel in a weak attempt to justify his post-tribulation rapture view. {1}
According to Joe Schimmel, the sixth seal, the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl correspond to one another i.e. they are the same events. Joe Schimmel "..he (Victorinus) talks about a recapitulation, and how the bowls overlap.. they are not written consecutively.." {2}
Apparently Victorinus was the first of the Church Fathers to invent the basic notion of repetition. He asserted that the apocalypse is not one uninterrupted and developing line of prophecy, but rather that various subdivisions run parallel with each other. Victorinus speculated that the theme of the soon coming second advent was a continuous thread of thought throughout the Apocalypse. {3} Victorinus' muddled ramblings run counter to the scriptures which demonstrate a consecutive-progressive framework for the seals, trumpets and bowls.
Alan Kurschner: "The prewrath position interprets a sequential chronological framework for the seals, trumpets, and bowls. That is, the seal-trumpet-bowl septets (sets of seven) will happen in a consecutive-progressive fashion with each septet consecutively following each other. For example, the trumpet septet cannot begin until the seventh seal is opened; and the bowl septet cannot begin before the seventh trumpet is blown. The last judgment element of the day of the Lord’s wrath will be the seventh bowl. Accordingly, the seventh seal and the seventh trumpet serve as transitions to the next set of God’s climaxing judgments, culminating with the seventh bowl." {4}
A cursory examination of Victorinus' commentary on the Apocalypse exposes some concerning departures from the scriptures.
From the Sixth Chapter
Victorinus: 1,2. And when the Lamb had opened one of the seven seals, I saw, and heard one of the four living creatures saying, Come and see. And, lo, a white horse, and He who sat upon him had a bow.. The first seal being opened, he says that he saw a white horse, and a crowned horseman having a bow. For this was at first done by Himself. For after the Lord ascended into heaven and opened all things, He sent the Holy Spirit, whose words the preachers sent forth as arrows reaching to the human heart, that they might overcome unbelief. And the crown on the head is promised to the preachers by the Holy Spirit. The other three horses very plainly signify the wars, famines, and pestilences announced by our Lord in the Gospel. And thus he says that one of the four living creatures said (because all four are one), Come and see. Come is said to him that is invited to faith; see is said to him who saw not. Therefore the white horse is the word of preaching with the Holy Spirit sent into the world. For the Lord says, This Gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world for a testimony to all nations, and then shall come the end.Victorinus incorrectly identifies the white horse of Revelation 6:1-2 as the Holy Spirit.
The consensus amongst reliable commentators is that the rider on the white horse is the Antichrist.
The consensus amongst reliable commentators is that the rider on the white horse is the Antichrist.
Victorinus: The black horse signifies famine, for the Lord says, There shall be famines in various places; but the word is specially extended to the times of Antichrist, when there shall be a great famine, and when all shall be injured. Moreover, the balance in the hand is the examining scales, wherein He might show forth the merits of every individual. He then says:—
6. Hurt not the wine and the oil. That is, strike not the spiritual man with your inflictions. This is the black horse.
6. Hurt not the wine and the oil. That is, strike not the spiritual man with your inflictions. This is the black horse.
The third seal/black horse relates to the beginning of birth pains i.e. famines in various places. (Revelation 6:5-6; Matthew 24:7-8). The Antichrist makes his appearance in the third temple at the mid point of the 70th week of Daniel after the first four seals are opened. (Daniel 9:27).
Benson: "And he that sat on him had a pair of balances, or scales, in his hand — Implying that men should eat their bread by weight, and drink their water by measure, or that there should be a great scarcity." {5}
Hurt not the wine and the oil - Revelation 6:6b does not refer to the exemption of "the spiritual man". The catastrophic events inflicted by the seals are indiscriminate natural occurrences.
Victorinus: 9. And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain. He relates that he saw under the altar of God, that is, under the earth, the souls of them that were slain. Victorinus identifies this alter as the brazen altar ..the brazen altar is understood the earth, under which is the Hades, — a region withdrawn from punishments and fires, and a place of repose for the saints.
Various commentaries confirm that the fifth seal martyrs are in the Lord's presence in heaven. {6} Therefore this alter is not under the earth. The scriptures indicate that Paradise (Abraham's bosom) was moved from Hades to Heaven at some point after the resurrection. (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:2-4).
Victorinus And for a solace to their body, there were given unto each of them white robes. They received, says he, white robes, that is, the gift of the Holy Spirit.And the sun became black as sackcloth of hair. The sun becomes as sackcloth; that is, the brightness of doctrine will be obscured by unbelievers.
And the entire moon became as blood. By the moon of blood is set forth the Church of the saints as pouring out her blood for Christ.
13. And the stars fell to the earth. The falling of the stars are the faithful who are troubled for Christ's sake.
Even as a fig-tree casts her untimely figs. The fig-tree, when shaken, loses its untimely figs — when men are separated from the Church by persecution.
14. And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up. For the heaven to be rolled away, that is, that the Church shall be taken away.
From the Seventh Chapter
I could continue, but hopefully I have done enough to make the point that Victorinus' commentary on the Apocalypse is deeply flawed. Although he was premillennial, Victorinus wrote in an allegorical style unacceptable to literal futurist premillennialists. Premillennialism depends upon a literal interpretation of prophecy, taking the words in their ordinary sense, and this is obviously not the case with Victorinus' exposition.
It is irresponsible for any bible believing Christian to base their eschatology on Victorinus, or any other Church Father, without testing their writings against the scriptures. (1 John 4:1; Acts 17:11). Victorinus' unscriptural interpretation muddies the waters, and his exegesis is, for the most part, defective. (Ezekiel 32:13-14).
One has to engage is eisegesis and read ones own interpretation into the text to come up with a concurrent interpretation. This is a weighty matter because any departure from the scriptures has unhelpful implications for those Christians who are already confused about the timing of the rapture. (Revelation 22:18-19). Joe Schimmel's valid critique of the pre-trib view is blighted by the fact that he is unable to demonstrate his concurrent view from the scriptures. To have resorted to the fallacious teachings of Victorinus is a desperate measure that I might have expected from a false teacher, not from Joe Schimmel.
My question: Why does Joe Schimmel take his interpretation of the book of Revelation from this confused third century Church Father?
1. https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0712.htm
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Y5PrIC-ME
3. https://peoplepill.com/people/victorinus-of-pettau/
4. https://www.alankurschner.com/2015/05/28/seals-trumpets-bowls-in-the-book-of-revelation-concurrent-recapitulation-or-consecutive-progressive-part-1-of-2-ep-36/
5. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/6-5.htm
6. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/revelation/6-9.htm
Further Posts:
A number of years ago my Goddaughter, who was about 12 at the time, said that she had read Revelation. I asked if she understood it, and she said yes, except for the bit about what the thunder said. Stupidly, I didn’t ask her to explain the rest of it, because I suspect her explanation would have made more sense than many theologians’.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, so many of us are told that Revelation is difficult to understand, full of mysterious symbolism, capable of multiple interpretations, etc. But my goddaughter, being a child, didn’t know that - she read it and understood it.
So why do we so often go to man to explain God’s word, when we can (and should) go to the Person who wrote it. Of course can speak through people we know and trust, real people if God. But I believe this should be after we’ve spoken to Him first.
So relying on a third-century nutcase for your primary source of interpretation of God’s word can only lead to problems!
Many blessings
John
If this is the only source Joe Schimmel can come up with to back up his views about the seals, trumpets and bowls then there is something very wrong. GFM/BHC refuse to acknowledge or address the problem which indicates that they have a closed mindset. As you say John "a third century nutcase" is not an acceptable source.
ReplyDeleteGod bless