The Bible Sojourner: "Do these twenty questions expose fatal problems with dispensationalism? Critics argue that dispensational theology cannot adequately explain key Bible passages concerning Israel and the church, the kingdom of God, Daniel’s seventieth week, the pretribulation rapture, biblical prophecy, and the New Covenant. In this episode, Peter Goeman works rapidly through twenty common objections to dispensationalism and asks whether they genuinely overturn the system.
Along the way, he examines covenant theology, the interpretation of Old Testament prophecy, the “last trumpet,” the timing of the rapture, the future of Israel, and the relationship between the church and the New Covenant. Some questions raise legitimate issues, while others depend upon misunderstandings or outdated caricatures. Ultimately, the question is not whether the label “dispensationalism” can survive criticism, but whether its central beliefs accurately reflect what Scripture teaches."
I share some core tenets associated with dispensationalism—including a literal prophetic hermeneutic, premillennialism, and a firm Israel–Church distinction. However, apart from my general reluctance to adopt theological labels, the pretribulation rapture remains a defining feature of dispensationalism that many Christians find deeply problematic.
In this post I will take issue with Goeman's denial of the John Nelson Darby connection with the pretrib rapture.
2: 1. Did Anyone Believe Dispensationalism Before Darby (3:25 mark)
Goeman: "The first question on the list: If your system is truly biblical, why did no one see it until John Nelson Darby in the 1830s? ..this is a very common assumption that people make. They assume that Nelson, John Nelson Darby creates a system, creates theological beliefs. One of the things I often challenge people is, I will often ask them, name one thing that John Nelson Darby invented. Because that's really the reality that we're talking about here is did John Nelson Darby invent anything? And there have been quite a few recent studies in fact about the life of John Nelson Darby that pretty much show that he is not contributing as much uniquely if anything as what is often assumed for people. In fact, the pretribulational rapture, which a lot of people assume Darby is the one who invented or maybe he got it from Margaret McDonald, that's a, you know, fallacy that many people have have held to. Even well-known individuals have propagated that belief. But it has been well established that John Nelson Darby did not create that himself. He didn't receive it from somebody else or he didn't receive it from Margaret McDonald in some charismatic vision or anything like that. He actually was influenced by a man named Thomas Tweedy.."
2: 1. Did Anyone Believe Dispensationalism Before Darby (3:25 mark)
Goeman: "The first question on the list: If your system is truly biblical, why did no one see it until John Nelson Darby in the 1830s? ..this is a very common assumption that people make. They assume that Nelson, John Nelson Darby creates a system, creates theological beliefs. One of the things I often challenge people is, I will often ask them, name one thing that John Nelson Darby invented. Because that's really the reality that we're talking about here is did John Nelson Darby invent anything? And there have been quite a few recent studies in fact about the life of John Nelson Darby that pretty much show that he is not contributing as much uniquely if anything as what is often assumed for people. In fact, the pretribulational rapture, which a lot of people assume Darby is the one who invented or maybe he got it from Margaret McDonald, that's a, you know, fallacy that many people have have held to. Even well-known individuals have propagated that belief. But it has been well established that John Nelson Darby did not create that himself. He didn't receive it from somebody else or he didn't receive it from Margaret McDonald in some charismatic vision or anything like that. He actually was influenced by a man named Thomas Tweedy.."
Little is known about Thomas Tweedy and I have not heard anyone else mention him in this connection. Some sketchy details are found on the Plymouth Brethren Archive:
"The last of the early Brethren to come to Demerara was Thomas Tweedy who had seceded from the Church of lreland in the early 1830s soon after his graduation from Trinity College, Dublin, in 1833. As a roving evangelist in Ireland he had decided that missionary work was his vocation, but partly on account of ill health and perhaps also because of discouragement from his family he remained in Ireland for some years. It was only in 1842 that he set out for Demerara where he arrived after 'a fine passage' of only 33 days. How effective was Tweedy's work as a missionary is hard to say, as his health was, at the best of times, fragile and the only account we have of his life is written by one who was not particularly interested in the spiritual side of his work. He married a local coloured lady, Elizabeth Thomas by whom he had two children. Henry died when still young, while Elizabeth became the caretaker of the chapel in Georgetown."1
Max S Weremchuk: "William Kelly refers to Newton telling him that Darby had written a letter to him in which he mentioned Thomas Tweedy suggesting 2 Thess. 2:1-2 as a help in understanding the rapture (in the article 'The Rapture of the Saints: who suggested it, or rather on What Scripture?'). In 'B. W. Newton and Dr. S. P. Tregelles. Teachers of the Faith and the Future' edited by G. H. Fromow p. 41 we read: 'About the year 1833, an Anglican Missionary came from London to Dublin, and was admitted into this circle. He told them that, while the first fourteen verses of that chapter (Matt. 24) were Christian, the remaining portion was 'Jewish,' and that, although Jewish believers might be guided by that Scripture, after the Church had been taken up to meet the Lord, it had nothing to do with the Church in the present age. Said he, 'We have found the key never discovered before.'
Could this have been Tweedy?
Would this not have been the 'clue' Darby still needed to come to the conclusion of the 'Jewish interpretation'? I would not be surprised if Darby at sometime thought of a partial rapture -- as appears in Margaret MacDonald. Could this be what the 'secret rapture' meant? The help Darby received from Tweedy and thus resulting in his 'Jewish interpretation' led to the now well-known 'Brethren' view of the rapture."2
Goeman challenges his audience to identify a doctrine unknown before Darby. The pretribulational rapture is absent from the historical record before 1829. Its emergence can be traced first to Edward Irving and the Irvingite movement, and subsequently to Darby who took the credit for it. Darby began teaching the pretrib rapture around 1830-1833. Despite extensive searches — no verifiable evidence places the pretrib rapture before that period. Documented instances of misrepresentation by pretrib leaders have been noted by Dave MacPherson, myself, and other researchers. Pretribulational eisegesis remains widespread, and the conduct of certain advocates raises legitimate concerns. The pattern indicates a coordinated effort to generate artificial “evidence” with some leaders appearing willing to employ any method necessary to preserve the claim.
Examples
* Lee Brainard's unscrupulous research into the early Church Fathers. Lee Brainard's amateurish attempts to reinterpret the writings of various church fathers have been debunked in every instance.3
* Mark Hitchcock's recent claim that he has discovered "new evidence" of the pretrib rapture in Irenaeus is a regurgitation of old false claims..4
* Andy Woods credibility issues. Alan Kurschner's strong rebuttal against Andy Woods' "lies" and "evasion of significant arguments" in 2018.5
* Mark Hitchcock's recent claim that he has discovered "new evidence" of the pretrib rapture in Irenaeus is a regurgitation of old false claims..4
* Andy Woods credibility issues. Alan Kurschner's strong rebuttal against Andy Woods' "lies" and "evasion of significant arguments" in 2018.5
* Paul Wilkinson's blatant revisionism of John Nelson Darby.6
The Dave MacPherson Rapture Files Blogger: Posts
A recent exchange between Andy Woods and Paul Wilkinson made clear that both treat the pretrib rapture as a primary issue, with Woods stating that he avoids association with individuals who deny it.
Woods: "My question for you is, is this a secondary issue, because a lot of people say 'don't get wrapped up in this, this is a secondary issue'?
Wilkinson: "Is it a secondary issue? Well, the apostle Paul in Titus 2 said it's our blessed hope.. that's my hope, that's the church's hope..
Woods: "What I am hearing you say is that this is not a secondary issue because what you believe about this changes your focus.. I don't think it is a secondary issue either and I mark and avoid people. I have a hard time appearing on their shows, appearing at their conferences.. A lot of them have contacted me and wanted to participate at our conferences and when I find out they are aggressively promoting some other perspective, I just have a difficult time unleashing them in front of God's people.."7
Wilkinson: "Is it a secondary issue? Well, the apostle Paul in Titus 2 said it's our blessed hope.. that's my hope, that's the church's hope..
Woods: "What I am hearing you say is that this is not a secondary issue because what you believe about this changes your focus.. I don't think it is a secondary issue either and I mark and avoid people. I have a hard time appearing on their shows, appearing at their conferences.. A lot of them have contacted me and wanted to participate at our conferences and when I find out they are aggressively promoting some other perspective, I just have a difficult time unleashing them in front of God's people.."7
For an ordinary attendee who raises doubts, Woods’ highly assertive almost cultish boundary‑drawing rhetoric would no doubt be difficult to withstand. These are scary people!
Darby's claim of direct revelation
Paul Wilkinson, who claims to be an expert on John Nelson Darby asks: "Where did his (Darby's) understanding of the rapture come from? It didn't come immediately, but as he himself writes, in his own writings, he got it from studying the word.."7
Actually Darby claimed (falsely in my view) that God Himself revealed dispensational hermeneutics to him directly.
Darby - in his own words.. "..what God has with infinite graciousness revealed to me concerning His dealing with the Church.."8
"..it was in this the Lord was pleased, without man's teaching, first to open my eyes on this subject, that I might learn His will concerning it throughout."9
Darby’s claim to have received the pretribulation rapture by direct revelation places the entire doctrine on unstable ground. By presenting his insight as newly revealed truth—functionally parallel to the way first‑century apostles received revelation (Galatians 1:12; cf. 1 Corinthians 11:23)—he positioned himself as a post‑apostolic recipient of fresh divine disclosure. After nineteen centuries of Christian history, that claim is highly questionable.
John Rylands University Library: "He (Darby) produced popular synopses of the Bible and voluminous polemical writings on biblical subjects. As well as his distinctive eschatological views in which he popularised the idea of the 'rapture' of true believers at the point of Christ's return, he developed a dispensational interpretation of the Bible. This analysed the relationship between God and mankind in terms of distinct dispensations or epochs, with marked changes and transformations occurring following pivotal events. This interpretation proved to be a useful way of overcoming contradictions and discrepancies within the Bible. It was adopted and developed further in the early twentieth century by C.S. Scofield who produced a highly popular and influential series of reference and study Bibles. Through this medium, Darby became one of the most influential forces shaping the character and form of modern day American fundamentalist Christianity. Most of those describing themselves a 'premillenial dispensationalists' can trace the modern roots of their ideas to Darby.10
In my assessment, the pretribulation rapture is one of the most dangerous deceptions to gain traction in the modern church. Its advocates have worked extensively to force the doctrine into the biblical text, and they have made equally strenuous illicit attempts to demonstrate that pretribulationism predates Darby. Both efforts have been unsuccessful. Believers should soberly consider the implications before relying on a hope that will not materialize when the Antichrist’s persecution becomes a concrete reality.
There are significant gaps in Goemon’s argument—gaps that someone with his background should not have overlooked. I have supplied exactly what he requested: evidence of a doctrinal position that did not exist prior Darby. A response from him and definitive proof that the pretrib rapture was taught prior to the 1830s would be appreciated.
2. My Brethren - Biography - J. N. Darby - Research 1
3. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Lee Brainard
4. Pre-Trib Proof! | Tipping Point with Jimmy Evans
5. What Andy Woods Is Not Telling You about 'the Apostasy' in 2 Thess 2:3 - Ep. 121 | ESCHATOS MINISTRIES
6. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Paul Wilkinson
7. PPOV 346. Drs. Paul Wilkinson & Andy Woods discuss Christian Palestinianism. 3-21-25.
8. Reflections Upon The Prophetic Inquiry And The Views Advanced In It | Plymouth Brethren Writings
9. Evidence From Scripture of the Passing Away of the Present Dispensation - John Nelson Darby (#62234) - BTP
10. Papers of John Nelson Darby
7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie)
Prewrath - Early Church Fathers
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