ONE CHURCH LEICESTER: SUSAN HIND "FREEDOM"

 FREEDOM | Susan Hind (26th April 2026)

These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.” (2 Peter 2:17-22).

Many false teachers are in the habit of quoting single verses of scripture out of context. The verse below is a conditional promise made by Jesus > If you abide in my word.. the truth will set you free.

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:31-32).

Susan Hind: "We are going to position ourselves for an encounter with Jesus.."

There are several red flags in what Susan Hind presents in this video. She is clearly reading from a prepared source, and it raises the question of what material she is relying on. It would be important to identify whether her script is connected to Sozo or another inner‑healing model that lacks biblical grounding.

Much has already been written by various critics on the dangers of “inner healing”, and I have included some links at the end of this post. My concern is straightforward: the kind of “freedom” promoted by Susan Hind functionally displaces the role of the Holy Spirit and pushes people into an endless search for hidden causes they are then expected to “work through” on their own. Susan Hind proposes that the root issue may be generational—family problems supposedly passed down the line, unknown to us, requiring cutting off. Scripture does not support this framework. Any so‑called generational issues were dealt with decisively at the cross. A true believer has already been set free from the past. To revisit what Christ has already resolved is to step into unbelief and to treat His finished work as insufficient.

Susan Hind repeats Derek Prince’s category error when she claims that “a Christian can have a demon but not be possessed by one.” The statement is incoherent. It blurs the biblical distinction between demonic oppression and demonic possession and creates a third category that scripture does not recognise. 

She then expands the framework: believers supposedly grant “permission” to demonic spirits through fear, trauma, repeated lies, curses, occult involvement, or careless words spoken over themselves. According to her model, these  "open doors" form “strongholds” and may require special prayer or deliverance to be broken. This teaching is not merely unbiblical; it is accusatory and harmful. The claim that demonic oppression requires the believer’s permission shifts blame onto the Christian and undermines the finished work of Christ. Scripture states that anyone who is truly born again is a new creation—the old has gone, the new has come. The cross has already dealt decisively with the past. 

Susan Hind recounts various experiences, including direct words from God, visions and other claimed encounters. These alleged accounts should be approached with extreme caution. Many who have gone through the full cycle of deliverance practices—rebuking or expelling demons, making declarations, breaking family curses, and revisiting past wounds in pursuit of “freedom”—are left traumatised, disillusioned, and spiritually destabilised. The addictive nature of inner‑healing models often produces deterioration rather than growth, creating a constant sense that still more “deliverance” is required. Scripture teaches that on the cross, Jesus Christ removed the believer’s guilt and the penalty of sin. When a person is saved, they are pronounced NOT GUILTY - they are JUSTIFIED (Galatians 2:16), THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD (2 Corinthians 5:21). TRUE BELIEVERS ARE BLESSED – THEY ARE DEFINITELY NOT CURSED (Galatians 3:13; Ephesians 1:3). This teaching is foundational to Christianity; it is not secondary. If any true believer is struggling with the truth of these statements, they should confess unbelief and petition the Lord for His help rather than revisiting the past. (1 John 1:9; Hebrews 5:7; Philippians 3:13). 

It is beyond dispute that One Church operates within the NAR framework and promotes doctrines and practices that are deeply problematic. The issues have already been documented at length in earlier posts. The only responsible response is to return to scripture and to sever ties with charismatic systems that promise instant solutions while drawing people into confusion, dependence, and false hope. None of these teachings has any biblical foundation. It is neither healthy nor scriptural to search for hidden reasons behind every feeling or difficulty. 

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. (Romans 12:2)

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:1-2).

SOZO - AN EVIL INNER HEALING "MINISTRY"
NAR Deliverance Ministers EXPOSED! - Revival History - Episode 185 Branham Research Podcast

Derek Prince & Dark Legacy of the Shepherding Movement | Revival History | Charles Paisley | Ep 383

EP 22 | Is the Pressure to "Hear God's Voice" Preventing You from Actually Knowing Him?
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Search results for derek prince

DEREK PRINCE'S DARK CONNECTION TO WILLIAM BRANHAM

Derek Prince & Dark Legacy of the Shepherding Movement | Revival History | Charles Paisley | Ep 3

"Leaving the Message is a project of William Branham Historical Research, critically examining William Marrion Branham (a.k.a. William Marvin Branham, 1907–1965), a Pentecostal revivalist and doomsday prophet whose teachings gave rise to authoritarian cults and spiritual abuse. We trace his influence into N.A.R., Latter Rain, Word of Faith, and Deliverance ministries."

The host of Leaving the Message, John Collins, and his co-host Charles Paisley are former members of the Branham cult and are well qualified to evaluate its complex history and influence. The sect known as 'The Message' or 'The Message of The Hour' is a label adopted by Brahnam's followers. The movement continues to exist, having followers in North America, Latin America, Africa, Europe, Australia, and many parts of Asia.1 Collins and Paisley describe Branham as "A Pentecostal revivalist and doomsday prophet whose teachings gave rise to authoritarian cults and spiritual abuse."

Branham claimed to have received an angelic visitation on May 7th, 1946, that allegedly commissioned his worldwide ministry and launched his campaign career. His fame spread exponentially, and many people were drawn to his accounts of angelic visitations and reports of the miraculous at his meetings. Branham's ministry spawned many emulators and was the catalyst for the broader healing revival that later became the modern charismatic movement. In all, Branham claimed to have received seven (actually eighteen) visions from God dating from 1933. These visions have been debunked as fabrications on the following link: William Branham's 1933 Visions .. Debunked! - Episode 33 William Branham Historical Research Podcast : John Collins, Charles Paisley : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive  In actuality Branham was a plagarist whose primary source was the "prophetic" writings of 17th century mystic Jane Lead.*  

Steve Montgomery: "Driven by 'ongoing revelations' and through 'borrowing' and plagiarizing the written works of the Esoterically-inspired, 17th century mystic and 'prophetess' Jane Lead, these 'prophets' of the Latter Rain developed the idea that 'all things' to be achieved in the 'end-times' would occur through the essentially deified 'corporate Body of Christ' prior to the literal, physical, personal return of the individual Jesus Christ."2 

The preamble gives a brief insight into the history of Branhamism. For the purposes of this post, I will limit my focus to the Shepherding Movement, aka the Discipleship or Covering Movement, which was established as a discipleship network during the 1960s by five charismatic teachers based in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. These five teachers became known as "The Fort Lauderdale Five": Charles Simpson, Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Don Basham, and Ern Baxter. The emphasis of the Shepherding Movement was on spiritual accountability, submission to authority, and close discipleship relationships. All five of these men were deeply influenced by William Brahnam. In particular, Ern Baxter was Branham's campaign manager between 1947 and 1953. Baxter often shared a platform with Branham, and their joint meetings were frequently referred to as the "Baxter-Branham meetings". Eventually, Baxter became disillusioned and parted company with Branham in 1953/4.2

Ern Baxter: "In the ministry with William Branham, I saw a dimension of the supernatural, that had in it such seeds of Christian unity and other good fruits that my excitement was hard to contain. But when I saw carnality start to invade the movement - exaggeration, misrepresentation, metaphysics and eventually the breakdown of many of the healers in critical areas of their lives, because they couldn't handle the crowds, the popularity or the money - I had to withdraw from it.."3 

Competing schisms subsequently developed from Branham's cult, and he became a catalyst for the Latter Rain Movement. The key component in these schisms was the emphasis on the five-fold ministry consisting of prophets, apostles, elders, preachers, and teachers (as outlined in Ephesians 4:11). The movement was based on ungodly hierarchical apostolic–prophetic structures with "prophets and apostles" claiming direct authority from God. Many direct parallels can be drawn between the Latter Rain Movement and the governance structure of the NAR. The most striking parallel is the alleged authority of modern-day "prophets and apostles" and their claim to receive direct, unverifiable revelations from God. 

The discussion proper about Derek Prince begins at the 29:00 mark. Prince came from a high socioeconomic status (SES) and attended Eton College and Cambridge University. Those coming from high SES backgrounds often have an entrenched attitude of entitlement. In my view, Prince's assumed "spiritual authority" was based on his privileged background rather than on calling and spiritual maturity. (Romans 8:5-9).

  

Prince cultivated a close association with Branham and the Assemblies of God, which was the largest branch of the Latter Rain movement during the 1950s and 1960s. In 1962, Prince moved to Canada from Kenya, where he had been a missionary, and he became a US citizen. He subsequently became pastor of the AoG Broadway Tabernacle in Seattle, where he ministered alongside key Latter Rain player and elder James A. Watt of Sharon Orphanage. Prince also became involved directly with Branham and the Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International (FGBMFI). His association with Branham led to a move to the AoG Faith Tabernacle in Chicago.4 Paisley contends that Prince's ministry was entirely facilitated by his association with Branham: "Derek Prince had to get William Branham's blessing in order to share the stage with him."  

The Shepherding Movement consisted of pyramid structures of "sheep and shepherds" that demanded the total submission of the lower ranks to the five-fold ministry as a requirement for "perfection" or what they referred to as "maturity". Rank and file members were required to submit to an authority figure known as a "shepherd" who micromanaged their lives via "covenant relationships". The shepherds in turn submitted to the Five or their subordinates. Members were not permitted to make lifestyle decisions, including marriage, house moves, career choices, visits to doctors, etc. without the permission of their shepherd. The authoritarian structure and rigid disciplinary requirements of the Shepherding Movement resulted in profound negative consequences on the lives of its rank-and-file members and their families. An insightful comment made by Charles Paisley is that the "shepherds" usurped the role of the Holy Spirit and personal accountability to God. (36:00 mark) The Shepherding Movement received increasing negative publicity as reports of severe spiritual abuse emerged. Eventually, due to pressure from Pat Robertson (CBN), who was also a false teacher, Prince left the movement in 1984, stating that they had been "guilty of the Galatian error: having begun in the Spirit, we quickly degenerated into the flesh."5 

Prince's "repentance", in my view, is suspect. My contention is that the Shepherding Movement was always rooted in the flesh. It is my observation that false teachers often "repent" when they are backed into a corner and have no other choice. Bob Mumford also publicly repented in 1989.

David Moore's description of the Shepherding Movement is that it "created a propensity toward an abuse of spiritual authority, especially among young immature leaders, or leaders who lacked character and integrity...the emphasis on hierarchically oriented submission to God’s delegated authorities led to many cases of improper control and abusive authority throughout the movement."6

A victim of the Shepherding Movement writes: "I grew up in the Shepherding movement. Just like anyone who has grown up in abuse, perspectives of what is normal, loving and correct are skewed. Healing has come so very slowly. This movement affected four generations of my family, my grandmother, parents, an aunt and uncle, myself, cousins and my children. The wounds are deep and serious. It has felt like we have been so wounded that we needed a spiritual ICU, but there isn't one. My older child are now practising non-Christian beliefs, wanting nothing to do with Christianity. My cousins have battled drug addiction as a means to try to forget. A day does not go by that I do not feel the searing pain left on my soul. The Shepherding movement was not of God in any way, shape or form. If the bible states we will know people by their fruit I would have to say that there certainly a great many bad apples that went on to injure others that might other wise have been good fruit."7 

"The five were deeply influenced by William Branham [Ern Baxter, one of the 5 had known him], and in turn they deeply influenced others such as the Kansas City Prophets (IHOP), Paul Cain, Bickle and Joyner [were under Wimber who was under Paul Cain]; and Peter Wagner. They are sometimes considered a syncretistic bridge between the New Age occult movement and some Charismatic movements (such as those in the Manifested Sons of God â MSG â branches)."8

This is a cautionary tale for those currently influenced by the NAR. This post barely scratches the surface of the Shepherding Movement and Prince's involvement with Branham. The corroborating evidence, thorough research, and insight of Collins and Paisley are of great value to those seeking to understand the insidious tentacles of Branhamism. This series of videos has much to offer those with "ears to hear".

1. The Message of the Hour
2. https://william-branham.org/data/topics/latter_rain/publication/the_culture_of_the_sacred_purge_part_one_the_legacy_of_latter_rain_eschatology.pdf
3. Ern Baxter - BelieveTheSign
4. ABC History: 5-A Quick Synopsis
5. TheShepherdingMovement by Allan Clare.pdf
6. TheShepherdingMovement by Allan Clare.pdf
7. Shepherding/Discipleship Movement Survivor's Blog: Derek Prince: A Biography
8. A LITTLE HISTORY - [ Truth about ] THE SHEPHERDING MOVEMENT

*Sixty Propositions : from an Authentic Version of a Work by Jane Lead - 1697
Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International
(186) Leaving the Message - YouTube
William Branham Historical Research
'Cults' sprout globally from Christian group 'The Message'

REVELATION TV: SPAIN ~ HOWARD CONDER'S WHITE ELEPHANT

It has recently come to my attention that Revelation TV no longer uses its Spanish-based studio for its RMornings programme. The new daily format of RMornings is now broadcast from Revelation TV's London studio. Howard and Leslie Conder recently announced that Nikki Mills and Yemi Balogun turned down an opportunity to move back to the London studio, and due to Spanish law, they had to be made redundant. So far, viewer concerns and queries about the purpose-built office studio complex in Southern Spain funded by the donations of its viewers have been met with a wall of silence.

(102) The Late Show Vision for the Future of revelation tv 2024 - YouTube

It became apparent last February on The Late Show that RTV's Spanish operation was running into difficulties and was not all they hoped it would be. During this programme, it emerged that the main RTV office had relocated to the UK due to staffing problems, issues with Brexit, COVID-19, and technical problems. Gordon Pettie: "We're struggling a little bit.. We've got this fantastic building that the Lord has given us. We acknowledge quite clearly that it was God directed to do that, but now we're saying, 'What really is the purpose of that building?'.. we are beginning to see an increase of programmes in the UK and we have got a dilemma.." (28:00 mark) Pettie made these remarks with a straight face, apparently unwilling to consider the possibility that the Lord had not spoken to Conder about starting Revelation TV.  Even in the face of abject failure, their delusion continues without a thought for those who gave sacrificially to enable the purchase of the Spanish white elephant on the strength of Conder's alleged "vision". Various suggestions were made by viewers, including selling the building in Spain and fundraising for a new London studio! It now appears that the ambitious Spanish project relentlessly touted by RTV presenters was a complete waste of everyone's time, money, and effort. Essentially RTV is back to square one and needs to finance a new London studio! 

Conder: "The prophecies that I got in the beginning.. were so encouraging that gave me a reason for actually going ahead with starting a Christian channel here in the UK.."  

The alleged prophecies that Conder received during the 1990s were from false NAR "Apostles" and "Prophets".

In 1994 Conder received a "prophecy" from proven false NAR "Apostle" Jonathan David at an ecumenical meeting!

NAR "Prophet" Sharon Stone prophesied over Conder in 1999. This is where Conder got the ridiculous idea that he was going to be a modern-day “Elijah”. Ironically, Elijah came against the prophets of Baal, he was not partners with them! (Ephesians 5:7).

NAR "Apostle" Noel Woodroffe's prophecy in 1994 mentions Howard Conder re: God starting Christian TV in the UK.

No doubt the above "prophecies" played into Conder's narcissism during the 1990s and beyond. However, many believers are now becoming more aware that the New Apostolic Reformation is a fake movement consisting of false "Apostles" and "Prophets". 

Pettie: "When we wrote the book 'Broadcasting Christ' we said in it 'Howard, you have had more prophecies that its right, back in 2009/10, to go to Spain and to start the work in Spain.' And it's trying to balance that up with what we can see with our eyes about the situation with Brexit and all the things that are happening at this moment of time.."  

 

Some Background

In 2008 RTV moved its head office to Spain. In 2012 RTV had a permanent television studio base in Spain, but these facilities were deemed unfit for purpose. In 2014 Conder had the "vision" for the Spanish building project. From around early 2015, fundraising commenced for the purchase of land and the building of a new purpose-built television studio complex for the channel in Spain. Following an intense and prolonged period of fundraising, the new Revelation TV studio's "Grand Opening" took place from Friday 21st to Monday 24th of April 2023.1 The new studio 'The Revelation International Centre' was hailed as "A future for the next generation".2 

Howard Conder has repeatedly attacked his detractors for their "false accusations", yet there have been many genuine concerns that RTV has refused to acknowledge. RTV's early compromise with Roman Catholicism and Word-Faith prosperity teachers such as Benny Hinn, Jesse Duplantis, John Hagee, Joyce Meyer, hyper-grace teacher Joseph Prince, ecumenist Hugh Osgood, the 700 Club, and Seventh Day Adventists etc. was not compatible with a man allegedly called by God. Many discerning Christians therefore rejected Conder's claims on the basis that RTV was no better than apostate channels such as Daystar, God TV, and TBN. 

  

Rob Thomas 'Watchman4Wales' May 2015: "It has long been noted that Revelation TV is a very heavily compromised channel, having no qualms about broadcasting the programmes of some of the most grievous wolves in sheep's clothing on the face of the planet. I wrote myself to Revelation TV some while ago concerning their broadcasting of false teachers, an example at that time being their airing of the notorious charlatan Benny Hinn's 'This Is Your Day.' (I had no response whatsoever). Their current schedule includes the likes of Jesse Duplantis and Joyce Meyer, who similarly present "another Jesus... another spirit... another gospel." (2 Corinthians 11:4). It is quite obvious that the channel has learned nothing about unacceptable compromise since Jacob Prasch's departure back in 2011, and the Justin Peters incident the previous year when a live interview with him was taken off air when he dared to "name and shame." They have continued relentlessly along their spiritually reckless way, with wilful disregard as to how their collusion with deadly deceivers brings not only disgrace to the Body of Christ but completely undermines the preaching of the True Gospel, exposing millions of viewers to spiritual mauling and mutilation by hungry wolves who feed off the flock!"3

These days, RTV focuses mainly on political issues, inane chat shows, and regular Bible studies with ecumenist Tim Vince, Anglican John Campbell, and egalitarian Derek Walker (Oxford Bible Church). 

Realistically Conder cannot keep up the delusion that God called him to start Revelation TV. The "God spoke to me" card is wearing very thin with many believers these days!

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1).

1. https://fb.watch/xMdHbvnSze/
2. (101) The Late Show Vision for the Future of revelation tv 2024 - YouTube
3. APOSTASY, ERROR & DECEPTION IN WALES - the watchman4wales blog.: REVELATIONS ABOUT HOWARD CONDER AND REVELATION TV - A FORMER EMPLOYEE SPEAKS OUT CONCERNING THEIR DECEIVING OF VIEWERS OVER THE STATION'S FINANCES!

Previous posts: WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Revelation TV

JONI LAMB DAYSTAR: SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED!

The Roys Report: Full Audio of Daystar Meeting

Roys Report: "During their time at Daystar TV Network, former Vice President Jonathan Lamb and his wife, Suzy Lamb, say they were spiritually abused by Jonathan’s mother, Daystar President Joni Lamb, and her close ally, Jimmy Evans. In this special edition of The Roys Report, we’re releasing full audio of Joni and Jimmy Evans’ meeting with Jonathan and Suzy Lamb in which Evans claims Joni is 'the voice of God' to Jonathan and Suzy..  What you are about to hear is one of the most stunning examples of spiritual abuse that I've ever witnessed.. "

The above meeting was between Jony Lamb, her close ally and "spiritual adviser" Jimmy Evans, and Jonathan and Suzy Lamb. Evans is the founder and president of XO Marriage and Tipping Point Ministries. He is a pre-trib rapture teacher and touts himself as an end-time prophecy expert. His theology raises several red flags biblically, and his behaviour during this meeting did nothing to ease my doubts regarding his suitability as a prophecy expert, a marriage counselor, or a spiritual adviser. I have added a link below that biblically debunks the pre-trib rapture. (1 John 4:1).

The main topic of the discussion centred around the marriage between Joni Lamb and Doug Weiss. Doug Weiss divorced his wife Lisa of thirty years in 2021 just two months after the death of Joni's husband Marcus Lamb. Joni claims to have begun dating Weiss in August 2022 and they married in June 2023. She paid for the $100,000 honeymoon in two installments with the Daystar credit card.1 From a biblical perspective, marriage to a divorced person in these circumstances is unsanctioned. No legitimate pastor could have endorsed this marriage. Nevertheless, Jimmy Evans gave it his full approval and officiated. Apart from the scriptural perspective, the speed of events leading up to the marriage is very odd given Joni's recent bereavement. 

To add to the strangeness, Weiss previously held out his first marriage as a beacon and an example that enhanced his reputation as "a renowned expert in the field of relationships and sexuality". Even after his divorce, Weiss kept up the illusion that he was married.

Nex News: "Dr. Doug Weiss and his wife, Lisa Weiss, have forged a strong partnership built on love, understanding, and shared values. Their journey as a couple has been marked by mutual respect and support, which has contributed to their enduring bond. As Dr. Weiss empowers others to enhance their relationships, his own marriage serves as a testament to the principles he advocates."3

According to Evans: "Doug Weiss was justified in divorcing his wife because he was emotionally abused."  This statement is at variance with Weiss's previous declaration of "happiness" with his first wife. 

Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being, and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart. (Psalm 51:6).

Biblical divorce and remarriage - it's an open and shut case! 

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to understand that there is only one circumstance in which a man or woman can divorce and remarry. However, "biblical expert" Jimmy Evans has contrived additional nonbiblical categories and has put many at risk of committing adultery. He has added "abuse, addiction, and abandonment" to adultery as valid reasons to divorce and remarry. Joni Lamb and Doug Weiss have applied Evans' nonbiblical category of "emotional abuse" to their adulterous marriage and Joni has insisted that it is accepted as valid within the cultish community of Daystar. (Proverbs 30:6; Deuteronomy 12:32; 2 Corinthians 10:5).

Now I tell you that whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” (Matthew 19:9 cf. Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18).

"It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:31-32).

To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. (1 Corinthians 7:10-11).

For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the LORD, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.” (Malachi 2:16).

Jonathan and Suzy's qualms about the legitimacy of Joni's marriage were completely justified. To have given way to this level of ungodly coercion would have violated their consciences and would have been sinful. Joni and Jimmy Evans' maltreatment of them culminated with the reprehensible ultimatum "Submit or leave".

Jimmy Evans to Jonathan and Suzy Lamb: "So do you feel that she (Joni) is in an adulterous relationship?"

Suzy Lamb "No. that's not why we didn't do that."

Evans repeated the question

Jonathan Lamb: "Well I think God is the judge of that, I can't really say for sure."

Evans: "Well you're judging". 

Suzy: That's not because of that though.. That's a boundary, that's her marriage, it's different from ministry. Ministry.. we are here to talk about God and we're here to do that.  Her marriage is out of Daystar, we have no relationship with him (Dough Weiss). He has not talked to us once and we.. I will never be fake on TV.."

I appreciate that Jonathan and Suzy were in a difficult position and that their relationship with Joni and their jobs were at stake. However, I think they would have done better to voice their objections to the marriage upfront. I am reminded of John the Baptist's bold rebuke against Herod regarding his illegitimate marriage to Herodias. (Matthew 14:4). Not everyone is that bold, but the issue of Joni's adulterous marriage to Doug Weiss is a deal-breaker as far as Christian witness and ministry is concerned. Jonathan and Suzy could not have endorsed the marriage without participating in Joni's spiritual defilement. (Matthew 15:19; Proverbs 1:1,10; 1 Corinthians 13:6).

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. (1 Corinthians 5:11).

Joni is desperate to gain approval for her adulterous marriage, in fact, she demands it. She is willing to put this marriage above her alleged faith and her family. I refer to it as "alleged faith" because Daystar is an ungodly channel that gives a platform to many false teachers. As the meeting progressed, the spiritual abuse and persecution against Jonathan and Suzy was difficult to listen to. The scripture twisting, and the false accusations of rebellion and witchcraft were nothing less than demonic. Between them, Joni Lamb and Jimmy Evans did a thorough job of calling evil good and good evil. (Isaiah 5:20). These tactics have nothing to do with biblical Christianity.  

Evans: "Joni is the voice of God to you". Anyone who insists on submission to unbiblical precepts in the name of God is operating in the spirit of deception. (1 John 4:6). No one can take the place of God in another person's life in any circumstances. Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18). "Antichrist" is translated from the combination of two Greek words ἀντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). In Greek, Χριστός means "anointed one" and the word Christ derives from it. "Ἀντί" means not only anti in the sense of "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of". (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).2 

Joni Lamb's dodgy counselors

Joni's counselors have been very willing to flout the scriptures to accommodate her adulterous marriage. (Psalm 107:11).

When Jonathan pressed Joni for the name of the pastor who advised her about her marriage she refused to name him. All we know is that he is "a pastor of thirty-five years". This argument of "experience" and length of time in so-called "ministry" is a red herring.  The fact that he gave this appalling advice demonstrates that he is unqualified. ( 2 Timothy 2:15).      

Joni named Shawn Bolz as one of her "prophetic advisors". Shawn (Smart Phone) Bolz is a deceiver who is known for his "iPhone prophecies" i.e. he uses the internet to obtain information about people in his audience to give them "words of knowledge". Bolz was caught out when he mixed up two people with the same name in one of his meetings and it backfired on him. Tom Lennie: "This single incident confirms beyond reasonable doubt what I and many other Bolz sceptics have strongly suspected for years – Shawn Bolz uses the internet to obtain the information for his ‘words of knowledge’."4 

Joni Lamb: "Shortly after some people learned that Doug and I were seeing each other, Shawn Bolz told me the Lord showed him there would be many significant marriages in 2023 and that God was bringing couples together in unusual pairings."5 

Joni's "spiritual adviser" Jimmy Evans: "Jimmy himself knew that he was accountable to God for what he taught and how he counseled. He later confided in me, 'Joni, when you came to me and began to talk to me about Doug, I was concerned as your older brother in Christ. My concern was, I don’t want anything for you that God won’t bless. If I felt like this guy was a bad guy, someone that had divorced without a cause or whatever, I’d chase him off. I don’t care what you say; I’d chase him off! I seriously prayed about it because I knew I needed the discernment of the Lord..' I brought Jimmy in at the start of my relationship with Doug, and he immediately called and talked to Doug extensively. Not only did Jimmy and Doug talk, but they also went through several intensive sessions together so Jimmy could determine the biblical credibility of Doug’s divorce and whether I could confidently pursue a marriage relationship with God’s blessing.5

Joni: "The other day we had Barry Segal on. Well, Suzy and Rebecca they just like and love Derek Prince right, love him. So his first wife died. Did you know his second wife was divorced for abandonment, there was no adultery. Barry Segal same thing, married to Batya. Guess what? She was married before; abandonment, no adultery. So you can say all you want that he (Doug) doesn't have a biblical reason, but he does, he does have a biblical reason." (45:00 mark)

Firstly, I regard Derek Prince as one of the most dangerous false teachers ever to have deceived the church. This praise of Derek Prince demonstrates the unspeakable level of delusion within the professing church. I have added a link to Prince's lethal false teachings. Putting my loathing for Prince's teaching aside, perhaps Joni was mistaken, or, given her questionable relationship with truth, perhaps she was lying when she said there was no adultery in Ruth Bakers' first marriage! In his own words, Derek Prince describes his marriage to Ruth Baker..

Derek Prince: "I fully satisfied myself that Ruth’s first husband had been manifestly unfaithful and that was the basis of the divorce. On that basis I felt that Ruth was scripturally free to marry me without any stigma of inferiority or guilt."6

I know nothing about the circumstances of Barry and Batya Segals marriage and I am unable to validate Joni's claim that there was no adultery. If this is true, it is obvious that believers should never follow the bad example of others, we should always follow the scriptures! (3 John 1:11).

 

This horrible situation is not only about Joni Lamb and what she wants. Joni has publicly dishonoured God, she has hurt her family, she has damaged the wider Christian community and she has brought the gospel into disrepute. (2 Peter 2:2; Romans 1:32). The murky world of Daystar is something to be avoided at all costs!

And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people’s faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them. Such people are not serving Christ our Lord; they are serving their own personal interests. By smooth talk and glowing words they deceive innocent people. (Romans 16:17-18).

1. Joni Lamb Denies Daystar Paid $100K for Honeymoon, but Reports Show Otherwise

2. Meet Dr. Doug Weiss: His Marriage to Lisa Weiss and Parenthood Journ
3. Strong's Greek: 500. ἀντίχριστος (antichristos) -- Antichrist
4. Discerning False Prophecy: Part Three
5. How God Miraculously Led Joni Lamb and Doug Weiss Together - Charisma News
6. Divorce, Remarriage, Celibacy | Sermon | Derek Prince Ministries

Further Links

7 Pretrib Problems and the Prewrath Rapture (Full Movie)
Todd White and Shawn Bolz - Proven Cold Readers!
WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Derek Prince
Daystar TV Joni Lamb Threaten Christian Youtubers With Lawsuit
The Roys Report Refuses Daystar’s Demand to Retract Articles
Joni Lamb and Doug Weiss Relationship with Jimmy Evans Blessing & More SHOCKING Information

DECEIVER DEREK PRINCE: CHRISTIANS WITH "TWO SPIRITS" IS A VILE TEACHING

Can You Have the Holy Spirit and a Demon at the Same Time? – Derek Prince Explains

I wrote extensively about Derek Prince's false teachings from 2014-18. I am revisiting the subject of demonic possession due to the prominence of various "deliverance ministries" via false teachers such as Vlad Savchuck, Isaiah Salvidar, Bob Larson, Torben Sondergard, and Kathryn Krick etc. whose ministries often mirror the aberrant ministry of Prince and others. In this video, Prince falsely teaches that a Christian can be indwelt by "two spirits".  

Prince: "The most difficult people to deal with are people who have two kinds of spirit. One is the Holy Spirit and the other is not. Now people will tell you that the Holy Spirit wouldn't dwell in an unclean vessel. That's wrong. The Holy Spirit does dwell in unclean vessels.."1  

A biblical rebuke to this false claim:

What God has made clean, do not call common/unclean (koinos). Acts 10:15 cf. Acts 11:9).2

This phrase is repeated twice in the Book of Acts and is preceded by the Greek word for "voice" (φωνή, phōnē) which suggests an authoritative proclamation. The phrase "has made clean" (καθαρίζω, katharizō) signifies a divine act of purification. This indicates the new covenant in Christ, where all believers, Jew and Gentile alike, are made clean by grace through faith. (Ephesians 2:8). 

Deliverance ministers practice a form of spiritual abuse wrapped up in Christianese. These wolves plant seeds of doubt in the minds of believers that they have not been truly cleansed from their former sins. (2 Peter 1:9). They lead believers into far worse problems than they claim to solve; they kill joy and assurance and their lies lead to confusion, anguish, and bondage. (1 Peter 5:8; 2 Corinthians 11:14). The scriptures state repeatedly that the Holy Spirit brings cleansing and renewal to regenerated believers. 

Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, (Acts 3:19).   

... to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ (Acts 26:18).
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. (1 Peter 2:9).

Titus 3:5; 1 John 1:9; 2 Peter 1:9; Hebrews 9:14; 1 John 1:7; Hebrews 10:22; 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:11,19; Ephesian 5:26; Romans 15:16 etc.   

Prince engaged in obfuscation and double-talk. On one hand, he taught that believers cannot be demonically possessed; on the other, he taught that believers can have "two spirits". Prince: "..he came to believe that Christians could be 'demonized', (normally described as "possessed" by demons.."3 

The scriptures teach that believers are cleansed from their sins and made holy by the blood of Jesus Christ. This is not to promote sinless perfection since sanctification is an ongoing process within believers. However, no true follower of Jesus Christ is an "unclean vessel"!  It is inconceivable that the Holy Spirit would dwell within a person together with a demon. 

 

Believers can be tempted, harassed, and oppressed by demons at times. However, a genuine follower of Jesus Christ cannot be demonically possessed. No believer was ever delivered from a demon in the New Testament! If we are plagued by former ungodly habits and addictions it is necessary to persist in prayer and to recognize that God will deliver us from temptation. (1 John 1:9; Matthew 6:13; Galatians 5:16). The Corinthians had many serious issues with sin and immorality. However, Paul did not recommend "deliverance", he instructed them to cleanse out the old leaven (sin). Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. (1 Corinthians 5:7,6:11; Romans 6:2; 2 Peter 1:9). If someone has made a conscious decision to follow evil that is another matter entirely; such a person cannot be truly devoted to Jesus Christ. (Numbers 25:3). 

Prince's endorsement of false prophet William Branham is a major red flag!

It should be glaringly obvious to any bible believing Christian that William Branham was a false prophet/teacher. Prince claimed that Branham had "two spirits" dwelling within him, "the Holy Spirit and a demonic spirit".4 

Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt (pikron) water? "Strongs 4089: pikros bitter, acrid, malignant."5 

Self-proclaimed "prophet" William Branham (1909-1965) was an early Pentecostal leader. He hugely influenced the Latter Rain Movement and his false teachings have left their mark on those who promote the restoration of apostles of prophets in the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). In reality, Branham was an occultist and a cult leader. 

Branham's followers refer to his false teachings collectively as "The Message". His eschatological views were utterly demonic. He proclaimed himself the angel of Revelation 3:14,10:7. He also claimed to be the prophet Elijah and taught that his ministry would result in the return of Jesus Christ. He prophesied that by 1977 all denominations would be consumed by the World Council of Churches under the control of the Roman Catholics, that the rapture would take place, and that the world would be destroyed.

Branham taught the false Oneness doctrine. However, he differed from the Oneness baptism formula and insisted that his followers were re-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ only. He also taught annihilationism, predestination (similar to Calvinism), eternal security, and the serpent seed doctrine (i.e. the serpent had sexual intercourse with Eve). 

Apologetics Index: "Branham taught that the Word of God was given in three forms: the zodiac, the Egyptian pyramids, and the written scripture. He said that anyone belonging to any denomination had taken 'the mark of the beast'.
Branham denied the Trinity, calling the Trinitatian doctrine 'of the devil.'
'Now don’t get excited. Let me say this with Godly love. The hours approached where I can’t hold still on these things no more… Trinitarianism is of the devil. I tell you that – Thus saith the Lord.'
William Branham, Footprints on the Sands of Time: The autobiography of William Marrion Branham, Part Two (Jeffersonville, IN: Spoken Word Publications, 1975), 606-7.
He insisted that believers baptized by a Trinitarian formula should be baptized in the name of  'Jesus only'

His doctrine of the 'serpent’s seed' taught that Eve’s sin involved sexual relations with the serpent. Some humans are descended from the serpent’s seed and are destined for hell, which is not eternal, however."6

Derek Prince (1915- 2003) became a Pentecostal teacher in 1962. He was born in India to British parents and was a scholar of Greek and Latin, attending both Eton College and Cambridge University. It is my observation that some people from privileged backgrounds have a sense of entitlement and assume that they can automatically become church leaders. In reality, this is far from the case. (1 Samuel 16:7). Even after the failure of the infamous Shepherding Movement Prince persisted with this arrogant assumption and continued to damage the body of Christ. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:20).

A primary requirement for the office of overseer is to have the ability to teach and to accurately handle the word of truth. (1 Timothy 3:1-7; 2 Timothy 2:15). The scriptures warn that not many believers should become teachers since teachers will be judged with greater strictness. (James 3:1). 

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. (Romans 16:17).

1. Derek Prince - Is It Possible To Have The Holy Spirit And A Demon At The Same Time? » Watch Online Sermons 2024
2. Strong's Greek: 2839. κοινός (koinos) -- Common, unclean, profane
3. Derek Prince - Wikipedia
4. Rejecting Branham's false model of ministry with spiritual gifts

5. Strong's Greek: 4089. πικρός (pikros) -- Bitter
6. William Branham - Apologetics Index

LEIGHTON FLOWERS VS JAMES WHITE JOHN 6:44 UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION?

Leighton Flowers VS James White: The John 6:44 Debate | Does John 6:44 Teach Unconditional Election? (youtube.com)

"Leighton Flowers VS James White: The John 6:44 Debate | Does John 6:44 Teach Unconditional Election?" 

Got Questions definition of unconditional election: "God, before the foundation of the world, chose to make certain individuals the objects of His unmerited favor or special grace. These individuals from every tribe, tongue and nation were chosen by God for adoption, not because of anything they would do but because of His sovereign will. God could have chosen to save all men (He certainly has the power and authority to do so), and He could have chosen to save no one (He is under no obligation to save anyone). He instead chose to save some and leave others to the consequences of their sin."1 

James White's theological debates include Calvinism, Roman Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism, infant baptism, the King James Only movement, Jehovah's Witnesses, and atheism. White has described Leighton Flowers as a "one-string banjo" referring to what he describes as his "obsessive" mission against Calvinism. Flowers attempted to make the debate more light-hearted by giving White a gift of a one-string banjo. However, at the end of the debate, White refused to accept it. White's "one string banjo" quip was doubtless thrown out as an insult, but Flowers apparent approval of other false doctrines is odd. For my part, I am unable to reconcile Flowers hyper-focused fight for truth in one aspect (Calvinism), and his apparent approval of error in another (ecumenism). (Acts 20:27). I was so troubled by this disconnect in 2018 that I have not paid him much attention since that time. 

Below is an excerpt from my previous post in 2018: 

  

"One would expect Flowers to have a bible verse on the 'Our Beliefs' page of his website, but his primary text is a quotation from AW Tozer! In fact there are many scripture references, but no actual bible quotations on this page at all.

I notice that Flowers also frequently quotes CS Lewis in his videos. Both CS Lewis and AW Tozer were ecumenists and closet mystics. As I look down the list of non-Calvinistic scholars Flowers lists as reading material, I am very troubled indeed. For example, he lists false teachers such as ecumenist Billy Graham, false deliverance teacher Derek Prince, ecumenist Greg Laurie, open theist and annihilationist Clark Pinnock, ecumenist Ravi Zacharias, ecumenist David Jeremiah.. I could go on.. and on... This tells me that Calvinism is not the only serious problem that needs to be addressed within the Southern Baptist denomination. The ecumenical movement is THE biggest threat to biblical Christianity in our time, and yet inexplicably, Flowers actively promotes ecumenical teachers and apostates on his website!"2 

The Debate

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— (John 6:37-45).

White: "Has the historical understanding of John chapter 6 since the Reformation.. is that a proper reading of the text?" This opening question was very telling in that it indicates that White's presuppositions are inhibited by his Calvinistic tradition.

White opened by emphasizing that there is no break or contradiction in verse 44 i.e. the group drawn by the Father is the same group that is raised up on the last day, namely the Jews who had been drawn by the Father via the prophets. Based on his understanding of John 6:44, White's view is that no distinction exists between the (passive recipients ?) being drawn by the Father, those being taught, those hearing and those learning in verse 45.   

Flowers opened by identifying God as the initiator and the hearers as the responders. His position is that the Jewish crowd in John 5:43 rejected God due to their own fault because they were unwilling. (31:00 mark) In contrast, White's presupposition from Calvin (originally Augustine) is that sinful people reject God by default. Flowers also quoted Calvinist John MacArthur: "Sinful man is pre-programmed by God to believe lies." Flowers appealed to various proof texts as evidence that the Jewish crowd was responsible for responding to Jesus.

I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. (John 5:43).

 

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, John 1:12 ..  cf. Ezekiel 18:32

For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’ (Acts 28:27).

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37 cf. Isaiah 30:15). 

Flowers: "Notice this hardened condition of Israel is not a universal default condition of all humanity from birth. It is a purposeful divine judicial judgement upon a rebellious people at a particular place in time to bring about Calvary through their rebellion.."  (Luke 19:41-42; John 12:39). This also explains why Jesus spoke in parables to the crowds. (Mark 4:34). Flowers also referred to Romans 11: ..as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.” (Romans 11:8). As a result of their rebellion, the Jews were ..ever seeing but never perceiving. (Mark 4:12). 

Flowers: "There is only one point of distinction.. why does God give certain people to the Son?" He continued.. "those who believed in the Father are given to the Son". Calvinism reverses the stated order given in the text i.e. regeneration precedes belief. From the Calvinist perspective draw = regeneration, whereas draw is given a different definition in the text.. i.e. those drawn are those who have heard and learned = those who have responded. 

Flowers position on John 6:44 ~ The Jewish crowd is not given to Christ because of their continued refusal to believe all that the Father has taught them (through Moses and the prophets).

White's position on John 6:44 ~  The Jewish crowd is unable to believe by default because they are not given to Christ.

Ex-Calvinist Bible Scholar Reviews James White Vs. Leighton Flowers Debate: John 6:44

https://youtube.com/live/ir0m-1h5wSU?feature=share

The subsequent review of this debate by Biblical Studies expert Dr Joel Korytko, although rather technical, is significant. In it, he identifies various critical weaknesses in White's arguments. White's smoke and mirrors strategy i.e. his technical knowledge of Greek grammar was a tactic that ultimately backfired. It became apparent during Korytko's review that White's frequent references to Greek grammar were not only superfluous and misleading, but were even incorrect at times. Korytko asserted that White's detailed information about aorist present participles in John is not remotely related to the debate and was an unnecessary distraction. In addition, Korytko pointed out that John 6:44-45 does not give evidence of volition. 

 

The Old Testament background to John 6:45 - the Prophets  

It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— (John 6:45).

Then all your sons will be taught by the LORD.. (Isaiah 54:13 cf. Joel 3:1-2; Jeremiah 31:4; John 2:20). Isaiah 54:13 is an eschatological prophecy referring to Israel's ultimate salvation in their post-conversion state. (Zechariah 12:10). John 6:45 omits "all your sons" and simultaneously refers to the eschatological prophecy as a present reality (inaugurated eschatology) via the new covenant. This verse presupposes the willingness of present believers, as well as the future inhabitants of the New Jerusalem, to be taught by the Lord. Biblia: "Essentially the same promise is given in Joel 3:1-2, and Jeremiah 31:34; and represented in 1 John 2:20 ('Ye have the anointing of the Holy One, and know all things') as already fulfilled."3 

The LORD appeared to us in the past, saying: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving devotion. (Jeremiah 31:3 - Berean Standard Version).

The ESV does not convey the meaning of draw in Jeremiah 31:3. However, several other versions translate the equivalent of the NT word elkusō (draw) Hebrew mashak. Jeremiah 31 sets the stage for the new covenant and the ultimate regathering of Israel. Critically Jeremiah 31:3 powerfully illustrates that the sense of mashak/elkusō (draw) is to lovingly persuade. There is no indication of irresistible grace aka effectual calling in this verse. 

Bengel's Gnomen: The same word occurs in the Septuag., Song of Solomon 1:4, εἵλκυσάν σε, [Engl. Vers.] “Draw me, we will run after Thee;” Jeremiah 31:3, “I have loved thee with an everlasting love, therefore with loving-kindness have I drawn thee” [in Septuag. ch. 38:3, εἵλκυσά σε εἰς οἰκτείρημα]. 4  

pantes and pas

'And they will all (pantes) be taught by God.’ Everyone (pas) who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— (John 6:45).

Flowers seemed to get rather flustered by White's use of pantes (all) and pas (everyone) (1:38 mark). Flowers has now modified his view and he accepts that all and everyone are in fact the same group. Few teachers are humble enough to publicly admit their errors, and we should give Flowers credit for his subsequent U-turn. Korytko effectively simplified this misunderstanding by appealing to the eschatological reality of John, i.e. everyone taught by God is the same group who have heard and learned from the Father and come to Jesus.           

heard and learned

Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me. (John 6:45).  

White's false assumption is that heard and learned are passive verbs i.e. those who have heard and learned are the passive recipients of the Father's instruction. In context, everyone is the subject of the sentence. Everyone actively performs the action of coming to Jesus after hearing and learning from the Father.

Other parts of the New Testament emphasize how we hear (active) indicating volition, or whether people have ears to hear. The formula "He who has ears to hear"  (Matthew 13:9; Mark 4:9 etc.) suggests more than ordinary powers of thought to comprehend.5  

Take care then how you hear (akouete), for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away. (Luke 8:18).

And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen (akouete) to him!” (Luke 9:35 cf. Luke 9:44; Deuteronomy 32:46-47; Proverbs 2:2-5).

For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them. (Matthew 13:15).

Thayers Greek Lexicon: "The Johannean phrase ἀκούειν παρά τοῦ Θεοῦ, or τί παρά Θεοῦ, signifies a. to perceive in the soul the inward communication of God: John 6:45."6 

Rightly handling the word of truth

White claims that taking verses 44 and 45 out of order in John 6 is inconsistent: "He (Flowers) begins at verse 45, assigns it a meaning, and then reads it back into the text, skipping over everything that comes previously". 

Korytko: "Verse 45 is the support for the previous statement.. this phrase is almost parallel to the previous one, they're supposed to interpret each other. Reading backwards is fine here because they are mutually interpreting each other.7  

White makes a similar argument regarding comparisons between John 6:44 and John 12:32.

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:44).

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself. (John 12:32).

White's hermeneutic of John is based on a rigid chronological verse-by-verse interpretation of the book in its historical context. While linear methodologies are useful in interpreting other passages of scripture, John has profound layers of meaning that simply do not lend themselves to this strategy. So when White claims that it is inconsistent to "jump six chapters into the future to a completely different context" from Jesus' Jewish audience in chapter 6 to all (Jews and  Greeks) in chapter 12, he ignores the circular nature of John's narrative and he misses the forest for the trees. (2 Timothy 2:15). Korytko: "In John, he is teaching a theology from the time of the present.. it is interacting with some of the things that Jesus said and also John's own spin on things."  (48:00 mark).

White's comparison with John 6:39-40 does not prove irresistible grace (TULIP) and is equally problematic regarding volition: And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”   

        

The main focus for Calvinists is the verb "draw" (helkó) = I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.8 Clearly, no one can be saved unless the Father draws them, but as we have seen from the Old Testament background, White's view that believers are compelled to respond to God's drawing is to make the false assumption that helkó invariably means to irresistibly drag. White's removal of the necessity for a response eliminates free will and human cooperation. The other passage where helkó is used in a moral sense is in John 12:32, where all people are the object of the sentence. Since universalism is not an option, the context of helkó determines its meaning. 

 

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw (elkusō) all people to myself. (John 6:44).

Cambridge Bible: "There are two Greek words for ‘draw’ in the N.T., one of which necessarily implies violence, the other does not: it is the latter that is used here and in John 6:44; the former (suró) is used Acts 14:19; Acts 17:6. Man’s will is free; he can refuse to be drawn: and there is no violence; the attraction is moral. We see from John 6:44 that before the ‘lifting up’ it is the Father who draws men to the Son."9  

Ellicott: "The word 'draw' need not perplex us; and all the theories opposed to the width of divine love and influence, and to the freedom of human will and action, which have been built upon it, are at once seen to be without support, when we remember that the only other passage in the New Testament where it occurs in a moral sense is in the declaration: 'And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me'" (John 12:32).10 

“That this ‘drawing’ is not irresistible grace, is confessed even by Augustine himself, the great upholder of the doctrines of grace. ‘If a man is drawn, says an objector, he comes against his will. (We answer) if he comes unwillingly, he does not believe: if he does not believe, he does not come. For we do not run to Christ on our feet, but by faith; not with the movement of the body, but with the free will of the heart…Think not that thou are drawn against thy will; the mind can be drawn by love.’” (Alford)

f. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me: Those who have a revelation from God the Father will come to His Son and Perfect Representative. f. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me: Those who have a revelation from God the Father will come to His Son and Perfect Representative. To hear and learn from the Son is to hear and learn from the Father.   

Expositors Greek Testament: "But whether it is also true that everyone whom God teaches comes is not here stated; the καὶ μαθὼν introduces a doubtful element. [Wetstein quotes from Polybius διαφέρει τὸ μαθεῖν τοῦ μόνον ἀκοῦσαι.]"11 

Both Flowers and White agreed that drawing is the teaching, or as White put it, "communicating facts and data". Flowers added, "the gospel is the power of God unto salvation". I would not isolate teaching as the single element required for salvation. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.. (Ephesians 2:8).

Matthew Poole: "..unless it be illuminated and drawn by the Spirit of God. No soul is able of itself to discern spiritual things.."12   

One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. (Acts 16:14). 

I am not implying that Lydia was compelled to respond, as Calvinists assert, but without the Lord's direct intervention in opening Lydia's heart, she would not have been converted. 

The evidence summarized    

The circular style of the gospel John does not necessitate a rigid verse by verse interpretation: James White says We Can't Read Backwards (youtube.com)

Several New Testament passages talk about everyone responding to the gospel. 

The Greek grammar is not relevant to the debate: James White uses Greek (youtube.com)

helkó (draw) is not compulsive.

hearing and learning are not passive verbs in this context. James White Thinks Hearing and Learning are Passive (youtube.com)

John 6:44-45 does not demonstrate volition. 

1. Unconditional election - is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org

2. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE COMPROMISE OF LEIGHTON FLOWERS! SOTERIOLOGY 101 (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
3. Exegetical and Hermeneutical Commentary of Isaiah 54:13 – Bible Commentary (biblia.work)
4. John 6 Bengel's Gnomon of the New Testament (biblehub.com)
5. Matthew 11:15 Commentaries: "He who has ears to hear, let him hear. (biblehub.com)
6. Strong's Greek: 191. ἀκούω (akouó) -- to hear, listen (biblehub.com)
7. Ex-Calvinist Bible Scholar Reviews James White Vs. Leighton Flowers Debate: John 6:44 (youtube.com)
8. Strong's Greek: 1670. ἑλκύω (helkó) -- to drag (biblehub.com)
9. John 12 Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (biblehub.com)
10. John 6:44 Commentaries: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. (biblehub.com)
11. John 6:45 Commentaries: "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. (biblehub.com)
12. Jeremiah 31:3 Commentaries: The LORD appeared to him from afar, saying, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness. (biblehub.com)

Further Links

Why I Think Calvinism Is Unbiblical (youtube.com)

A Scholar Corrects James White on John 6 (youtube.com)

I Misunderstood James White (youtube.com)

Joel Korytko, PhD - Northwest Institute for Ministry Education ResearchNorthwest Institute for Ministry Education Research (nimer.ca)  

FALSE "APOSTLE" KATHRYN KRICK: THE DELIVERANCE RACKET

Apostle Kathryn Krick 6 demon exorcism on 2 girls $$$ 4 deliverance (youtube.com)

The claims of modern "Apostle" Kathryn Krick and other deliverance teachers are in large part the fruit of Derek Prince's false ministry. Prince is arguably the most significant teacher in the last 50 years to promote the controversial view that Christians can be "demonized". Prince skewed the definition of "demonized" and promoted various unreliable ideas associated with demonization, deliverance, ancestral spirits, the alleged demonic implications of self-curses, generational curses and "soulish prayers".

In the New Testament, the Greek verb daimonizomai (demonized) describes a person who is indwelt or possessed by a demon. 

Strongs: daimonizomai: to be possessed by a demon
Original Word: δαιμονίζομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: daimonizomai
Phonetic Spelling: (dahee-mon-id'-zom-ahee)
Definition: to be possessed by a demon
Usage: I am possessed, am under the power of an evil-spirit or demon.
Greek daimonizomai (demonized); elsewhere rendered oppressed by demons

Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 1139: δαιμονίζομαι

δαιμονίζομαι; 1 aorist passive participle δαιμονισθείς; (δαίμων); to be under the power of a demon: ἄλλος κατ' ἄλλην δαιμονίζεται τυχην, Philemon 1 in Stobaeus, ecl. phys. 1, p. 196; of the insane, Plutarch, symp. 7, 5, 4, and in other later authors. In the N. T. δαιμονιζόμενοι are persons afflicted with especially severe diseases, either bodily or mental (such as paralysis, blindness, deafness, loss of speech, epilepsy, melancholy, insanity, etc.), whose bodies in the opinion of the Jews demons (see δαιμόνιον) had entered, and so held possession of them as not only to afflict them with ills, but also to dethrone the reason and take its place themselves; accordingly, the possessed were accustomed to express the mind and consciousness of the demons dwelling in them; and their cure was thought to require the expulsion of the demon — (but on this subject see B. D. American edition under the word Demoniacs and references there; Weiss, Leben Jesu, book iii., chapter 6): Matthew 4:24; Matthew 8:16, 28, 33; Matthew 9:32; Matthew 12:22; Matthew 15:22; Mark 1:32; Mark 5:15; John 10:21; δαιμονισθείς, that had been possessed by a demon (demons), Mark 5:18; Luke 8:36. They are said also to be ὀχλούμενοι ὑπό or ἀπό πνευμάτων ἀκαθάρτων, Luke 6:18 (T Tr WH ἐνοχλούμενοι); Acts 5:16; καταδυναστευόμενοι ὑπό τοῦ διαβόλου, i. e. by his ministers, the demons, Acts 10:38. 1

Reasons why believers cannot be demon-possessed 

The deliverance racket is lethal to the body of Christ for many reasons.

There is no explicit text in the New Testament demonstrating that believers can be possessed or indwelt by demons. Those who promote deliverance argue that there is nothing in the scriptures that precludes believers from being demonized. However, teachings based on silence are unreliable and cannot be tested. (1 John 4:1). Deliverance teachers are forced to abandon hermeneutics and enter the realm of speculation and eisegesis. The result is that many believers are left with an open question rather than assurance and clarity, and many are left in doubt and confusion. This teaching undermines numerous assertions found in the epistles regarding the freedom believers have in Jesus Christ. Deliverance is linked to the retrograde doctrines taught by false apostles who seek to make disciples after themselves (2 Corinthians 11:13; Acts 20:30), and who seek to put believers under the curse of the law. (Galatians 3:10-13; Deuteronomy 5:9,28:16; Exodus 34:7).

* There is no instance of a believer being indwelt by demons and delivered in the New Testament.

* The epistles give no instructions regarding delivering believers from demons. 

* Deliverance is never referred to as an integral part of any Christian meeting in the New Testament. 

* When believers assemble together, all things should be done in an orderly manner. (1 Corinthians 14:26-33). The purpose of the Christian assembly is to glorify Jesus Christ and to encourage one another in the faith. (Hebrews 10:24). These disruptive pantomimes detract from true worship and do not glorify God.

* People who were possessed by demons in the New Testament were known to be possessed due to their extreme involuntary behaviour affecting not only themselves but their families and the wider community. (Luke 8:27; Mark 9:18). The New Testament gives no indication of involuntary demonic behaviour amongst believers after their conversion.

* We see the same people (actors) being repeatedly "delivered" by Krick. Those repeatedly "exorcised"  by Krick and other deliverance "ministers" simulate demonic possession. 2 

* Krick states that people need to sow (money) for deliverance. (14:46 mark). She promotes the wicked lie that money spent on psychics needs to be surpassed by the person allegedly "possessed" due to some alleged "spiritual law - to unlock the keys of deliverance". 

* Believers are delivered from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. (Acts 26:18).

* The instructions given to believers regarding external spiritual attacks:

Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. (Ephesians 6:10-18)

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (James 4:7).

* The deliverance racket is a distraction from Paul's exhortation to direct our thoughts towards pure and praiseworthy things. (Philippians 4:8).

* Believers are temples of the living God. (2 Corinthians 6:16; John 14:23).

* Believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 4:30).

* Paul exhorts believers not to grieve the Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 4:1,30).

* Deliverance detracts attention away from Jesus Christ onto the alleged demons.

* Deliverance compromises the scriptures and puts believers into bondage. 

* The deliverance racket denies the blood of Jesus. (John 8:36).   

* People often come back for deliverance repeatedly - this demonstrates that it is not successful. When Jesus expelled demons it resulted in complete deliverance. (Mark 5:15; Mark 16:9).  

* Deliverance involves mind control and subjective experience.

* Jesus' exorcisms were not long drawn-out affairs ~ they were brief and decisive. (Matthew 8:16, 32,17:18).  

* Jesus did not initiate dialogue with demons or ask them to identify themselves. Jesus knew exactly what they were e.g. the case of the "deaf and mute spirit". (Mark 9:25).

* Deliverance adds to the word of God. (Proverbs 30:6). 

*Those who practice deliverance inevitably promote other false teachings that are harmful to the body of Christ. 

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. (2 Corinthians 5:17).
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (2 Corinthians 3:17).
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (John 8:36).

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. (Ephesians 1:3).

If a true Christian is in the throes of a severe spiritual attack, it is sheer folly to put oneself at the mercy of false deliverance teachers. In my view, this kind of "ministry" is very dangerous due to the suspect character and the sheer fakery practiced by those involved in it. Ironically those who dabble in spiritual things without God's authority are likely to attract demons. (Acts 19:13-16). Deliverance "ministers" encourage believers to abdicate personal responsibility and reduce personal problems and sin to the level of demonic possession and/or curses; they fail to appreciate more complex issues such as personal responsibility, self-control and endurance. (1 Peter 1:6; Ephesians 4:25-32,6:13). Sometimes people can be sick for unknown reasons. (John 9:2-3). Sometimes, sin (i.e. bad lifestyle choices) is responsible for sickness. (John 5:5,14). Furthermore, we should not think it is unusual to face trials and difficulties of various kinds. (James 1:2; 1 Peter 1:6-7,4:12). The answer to a spiritual attack is to throw oneself onto God Himself and seek Him for the solution rather than rely on the blasphemous profanities of false teachers and their cheap dramas.

Kathryn Krick's recent "Prophetic Warning for the Body of Christ" is an unsanctioned attempt to foist the NAR and its false "Apostles" and "Prophets" onto the church. Faithful Christians should reject this "warning" and anything else that comes out of the NAR. 

And you, son of man, be not afraid of them, nor be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions. Be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, for they are a rebellious house. And you shall speak my words to them, whether they hear or refuse to hear, for they are a rebellious house. (Ezekiel 2:6-7).

..and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. (Acts 20:30).

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:13).

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. (Matthew 24:4-5).

I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. (Revelation 2:2).

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. (1 Timothy 2:12).

1. Strong's Greek: 1139. δαιμονίζομαι (daimonizomai) -- to be possessed by a demon (biblehub.com)

2. Paid actors flopping like dead fish at cult leader Kathryn Krick’s Holland shady cult gathering. (youtube.com)

Further Links

WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: Derek Prince (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
Deliverance: The Evolution of a Doctrine - The Gospel Coalition
Why Deliverance Ministries Fail to Deliver - TGC Africa (thegospelcoalition.org)