DEBATE CANCELLED: JACOB PRASCH REFUSES TO MEET DAVID NATHAN IN THE UK

So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. (1 Peter 2:1).

To his disgrace, Jacob Prasch has chosen to post yet more derogatory remarks about David Nathan on Moriel TV's Facebook page, this time concerning the proposed debate between them: "After accepting the invitation of Bill Randles to debate, David Nathan backs down and runs away again". {1} Moriel TV have published only a fragment of what was communicated between Moriel, David Nathan, Bill Randles and others, once again giving their readers half truths and a very biased view of the real situation. Just like his eschatology, Prasch's version of truth differs significantly from reality!

David Nathan has published ALL the emails that have passed between the various parties concerning the proposed debate. This gives us the full picture, instead of Moriel's continuing accusations and half truths.

THE TRUTH: Jacob Prasch has refused to meet with David Nathan in the UK where he knows he will get a fair hearing:

https://www.bolm.co.za/index_htm_files/Why%20a%20Meeting%20never%20took%20place.%20The%20truth..pdf

{1} https://www.facebook.com/MorielTV/

DAVID NATHAN TO ENGAGE WITH JACOB PRASCH NEXT YEAR

As David Nathan is not on Facebook, he has asked a number of people to share the good news that he looks forward to engaging with James Jacob Prasch next year on neutral ground in England.
He wrote the following to Bill Randles:
Dear Bill

Thank you for getting all parties to agree to meet and resolve the issues that have arisen over the last few months. This can only bring correction and repentance were needed and most importantly, healing to the Church as a whole, something that I have desired from the very outset which is evidenced in all my responses to Jacob and Moriel.

Having reflected overnight on the proposed meeting, which I am absolutely committed to, I would like to recommend that the following be taken into consideration as it is I who have to defend myself according to both Titus 3:10 and in a sense 1 Timothy 5:19 against numerous accusations.

Firstly and most importantly, I would like the meeting to take place in the UK, at a central venue that Jacob approves of. This is not negotiable for me and should be agreeable for Jacob who is resident in the UK. Some of the reasons for this are;
- Both parties have a strong support base in the UK whereas only one has one in the USA.
- I am able to easily call witnesses to testify in the UK as many are based there. The monies Believers in Grace would save in paying our airfares and accommodation could be used for you to travel to the UK where you are greatly loved and respected.
- All the council members of CMFI are resident in the UK and they too have strongly urged their members to avoid me. I have the right to be addressed by them and be able to make a defence.
- There are numerous highly respected Greek and Hebrew scholars if required, some whom are well known to Jacob.
- If Jacob’s claims that I am a heretic are correct and to be avoided, then it must be before those where I have ministered most often for the protection of their churches.
Due to the numerous accusations that have been levelled against me by Jacob and others, I request that the meeting deal with each of the doctrinal concerns that have been raised over the last 4 to 5 months and not be limited to the two you initially suggested.
The accusation that I call myself an apostle needs to be addressed and dealt with too.
Jacob has mentioned in numerous emails that I have been “blacklisted” from numerous churches both in the UK, USA, Australia and South Africa. I request a letter from each of the churches he refers to, from the senior pastor, stating the reason why they no longer want me in their churches as I have a right to defend myself against these accusations also. For example, a letter from Steve Mitchell from FBC in Columbus Ohio stating the reasons why he as the senior pastor will never have me back based on what I have taught at his church. The reason for this is that some churches will not have me back because I they are cessationists or I taught against OSAS or they are strongly pre-trip in regards the Rapture, or a combination of all three. The reality that those ministers outside of the UK will probably not be able to attend, necessitates that their letters reach me (copies to all on this mailing list is suggested) well before the date of the meeting that I have the opportunity to give a rebuttal to their letters and receive a further response.
Finally, that the manner and spirit in which this whole affair has been dealt with be addressed and where parties have acted in a manner contrary to Scripture, they are held accountable.
I trust that the above, which I believe to be fair in light of all that has transpired, is acceptable to you.

Sincerely,

David Nathan

MIKE ROGERS CLOSINGSTAGES EXPOSES JACOB PRASCH

Mike Rogers of closingstages.net/ exposes Jacob Prasch's flawed correction of John MacArthur and the dangerous situation that arises when one false teacher corrects another.

A recurring tactic of Jacob Prasch is that he frequently attacks a particular false teacher giving valid scriptural arguments for his position. In his "righteous anger" he is incensed and offended ..how dare he teach such a terrible thing etc. When he has won over his hearers, he administers a lethal injection of his own false teaching, after which he reverts back to the false teaching of the person he is attacking. This clever ruse seems to work on the undiscerning. For those of us who are wise to it however, we recognise it for what it is.. spiritual deception!

This was precisely the pattern Prasch employed when he corrected John MacArthur's false teaching about the mark of the beast some time ago.

Prasch begins by pointing out MacArthur's grievous error about the mark of the beast. He then proceeds to uphold MacArthur's pre-trib error that the Holy Spirit is the Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7. Critically the scriptures do not identify the Restrainer! Pretribulationists generally believe erroneously that the tribulation is a seven year period. Prasch frequently vacillates between seven years and three and a half years. {1} Prasch teaches elsewhere that the Holy Spirit will not convict the world of sin or righteous and judgement for the entire seven year period of Daniel's 70th week. Again, depending on his whim, Prasch vacillates between the entire seven year period and the three and a half year period i.e. the period following the revelation of the Antichrist. (2 Thessalonians 2:3). Significantly, the scriptures only indicate that no-one will repent during the period of God's wrath following the rapture. (Revelation 9:20-21). The implication appears to be that during the outpouring of God's wrath, people will be given over to a reprobate mind and will be immune to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. (Romans 1:28 cf.1 Timothy 4:2).

Prasch continues: "The Antichrist comes to power. The Holy Spirit will not restrain.. He will not operate the way Jesus predicted He would in John's gospel convicting the world of sin, of righteousness and judgement. (John 16:8) Evil will not be restrained any more. "

Mike Rogers: "So Jacob says that Jesus didn't know all the ways the Holy Spirit operates.. or since the Holy Spirit will not operate the way that Jesus predicted He would in John's gospel.. if Jesus being one Person of the Trinity, and the Holy Spirit being one Person of the Trinity, how is it that Jesus could have missed the mark on how the Holy Spirit would operate in the world at the end of the age? Where does the scripture say that the operation of the Holy Spirit changes or ceases at the end of the age?

Mike goes on to challenge Prasch's theory that John 16:8 and 2 Thessalonians 2:7 are synonymous.

Over to Mike..

ERROR SIDE BY SIDE WITH ERROR

{1} https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2018/07/jacob-prasch-make-up-your-mind-how-long.html

JACOB PRASCH MORIEL MINISTRIES: WHO IS JOHN CAMBRIDGE?

The documents submitted by Moriel Ministries concerning David Nathan are rather mysterious as to their origin. They have been posted on a new website by an individual going by the name of John Cambridge under a nom-de-plume with the sole purpose of discrediting the ministry of David Nathan.

Moriel TV: "More and more people are coming out with their own studies and research exposing the false doctrine of David Nathan. Here is such a document:

'A Solution to Your Confusion: An Open Letter to David Nathan'
https://docs.wixstatic.com/…/ae0d2a_ee65166dca98475f9169d78…

'Baby Steps: A Guide to David Nathan'
https://docs.wixstatic.com/…/ae0d2a_6a3999b598f84f65ab5c4a2…

Video Discussed in the Letter (the version David has on his youtube channel is edited)
https://drive.google.com/open…

This individuals blog can be found here:
https://cambrjohn.wixsite.com/nathan

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these documents are those of the author’s and do not necessarily reflect the official position or opinion of Moriel Ministries." {1}

Jacob Prasch: "I've created a webpage as a repository for all your false teachings --excluding those already covered in this letter. See cambrjohn.wixsite.com/nathan." {1} This statement gave me the impression that Prasch was the author of these documents. However, I have since been informed by Amos Farrell, founder of Genesis Christian Radio, that it is an "editorial error".

Have we discovered the author of these documents after all?

"77 'John Cambridge' is a nom-de-plume. I’m using it because some people might otherwise choose to reject the points I make in this letter (even though truth is independent of the person bringing it) because of my past failings discussed in an earlier endnote."  {2}

Interestingly, bayith.org is cited no less than five times in the endnotes of the document - A Solution to Your Confusion: An Open Letter to David Nathan' : 8, 22, 37 and 69. {2} Bayith Ministries is run by Elizabeth McDonald and Dusty Peterson aka Neville John Rainier, the man who defrauded a number of Christians into buying a retreat from the coming tribulation on the island of Gozo, near Malta. {3} In fact Jacob Prasch issued a warning about Dusty Peterson/Neville on the 4th of March 2011: "We regard Mr. Peterson's survivalist eschatology as theologically and doctrinally bogus. Whether he actually subscribes to this cultic lunacy or is merely using it as a vehicle to approach targets for money we are not certain. However we view his financial antics as unethical and predatory.." {4}

Perhaps Jacob Prasch would like to clarify how five endnotes citing Peterson's website could possibly be promoted by Moriel - the clear implication being that Peterson actually wrote these documents?

In 2012, someone contacted online lawyers, justanswer.com for advice:

"A well-known "Christian" writer has borrowed about 20,000 euros from each of his victims and left his rents unpaid. He himself is a UK citizen and his victims are all over the world. He gives promises and dates when he should pay, but it has not happened. He was due to pay finally all his loans for one year ago, but has not paid. He said first that he was out of money because he had bought a house in Malta. But it was a lie - he has not bought it even today. Recently he wrote to one of his victims that he has lost the house, because he couldn't pay it fully. Now he says he has lost our money - ?50,000 euros, his own inheritance from his mother and investments from some of his victims....
He went on to say: I live in Finland and have to wait the prime victim, who is a British citizen to go to the police again with all "the new information" the conman has sent. He is probably a psychpath so that he lies, lies and lies. He has no sense of right or erong and accuses his victims instead. His victims are believers and he asks them if they had prayed about lending money to him. If they answer yes, he says: OK, it's God's will then (that they do not get their money back) if they answer: No, he says it's the victims' fault that they lost their money.
His (Dusty Peterson aka Neville John Rainier) victims are his readers (books, articles etc.)
There are two warnings about him on the internet." {5}

A comment on lamblion.us in 2011:

"WARNING to Post-trib and Pre-Wrath Brethren about ‘DUSTY PETERSON’ who has defrauded frightened Christians into buying a retreat from the coming Tribulation on the island of Gozo, near Malta.

By Scripture twisting, he preys upon the fears and sympathy of the Christians he deceives. This man is a work shy, out and out conman. One example:

'…she paid two instalments of Rainier's rent (which he didn't pass on to the landlord!) on the CAMBRIDGE house where he overstayed his welcome by about two years. Here's what she did: 'I actually paid his rent on two occasions (2 x £630). .......he said that he'd be homeless if he couldn't meet the rent, and I felt it my Christian duty to help him. Of course, looking back, I can see that it was an unwise decision to lend him the money. I had no idea until now that there was so much trouble regarding the Landlords.....that he owes them over £11,000!'

The case against this fraudster is growing, so be cautioned against ‘lending’ him money for rent to prevent homelessness. He will make repeated promises to repay with a great deal of extra ‘luvly’ money as a ‘sweetener’. You will not see your money again. Many have felt pity for him to the tune of many thousands of £’s that he will not repay. His real name is: NEVILLE JOHN RAINER. A.k.a DUSTY PETERSON." {6}

It is important that these accusations against David Nathan are put forward by a person of integrity and of good standing in the Lord. I expressed my concern about the unknown author to Amos Farrell last night.

Farrell: "Why are you concerned about who he is and not what he says, 'Curious and curiouser' said Alice good night Treena you are focusing on the wrong thing." Farrell went on to accuse me of being "fixated". This conversation was quickly deleted from FB, although I have a record.

Mr Farrell may not be concerned about the integrity of the person who wrote these documents, but others, including myself, most certainly are concerned.

I also expressed to Amos Farrell my further concern that whilst various people are taking pains to tear David Nathan to shreds, no one is focusing on the false teaching of Jacob Prasch apart from myself. This is incredible considering the serious nature of Prasch's phony eschatology. Is the denial of the Holy Spirit during the 70th week of Daniel not a serious issue?

John Cambridge to Mike Rogers of closingstages.net/ (with permission)

Mike, thank you for your response to my letter. I am sorry you seem to have missed so much that was in it…
1) “What seems to be lacking, … is a sit down with David Nathan”. But surely the letter proves that David Nathan is a false brother? Why would anyone want to “settle the issues and reconcile” with a false brother?
2) “You assume and “guess” much about what Moriel/Prasch may or may not be thinking, which only slants your letter more that lends credibility to it.” The assumptions about Moriel in the letter are merely a tool with which to give the letter a thread or a ‘spine’. The point is, again, that David Nathan is a false brother (Prasch was the first person I’m aware of who went public with that information). And the fact that Nathan is a false brother explains a lot of the otherwise-very-unreasonable-looking behaviour by Moriel staff.
3) “you are quick to … paint him and many of his videos with the same brush as Prasch and Moriel”. This is simply not true. As the letter states, I tried to think the best of him for months. And I point people to plenty of reasons to question his teachings, methods and ‘repentance’. I fear it is you who are being quick to judge.
4) The phrase “spiritual DNA” was simply a way to add a little colour to the letter and to get across the fact that Nathan is inherently false and nothing he can do will ever change that. Are you not clutching at straws to make such a big thing of it?
Anyway, sincere thanks for your feedback. It is good to know that you were unable to actually fault anything in the meat of the letter, even though you would apparently have loved to have been able to.

Mike Rogers on December 5, 2018 at 5:22 pm

Here’s just a few bullets of quotes, comments and concerns:
• While the scriptural reproof of being “slain in the spirit”, “transferable” and the “control of the Spirit” is text book in its rebuke (although I do question a few things, now is not the time or topic). What seems to be lacking, again is a sit down with David Nathan and Jacob Prasch to settle the issues and reconcile. How is it that the drum keeps being beat on what David Nathan has said and taught in these videos? You are in essence just repeating the same thing that has been said over and over and over by many and in particular Jacob Prasch who REFUSES to meet with David. Any of us coming out of Charismaina/Word Faith know full well the error. Does anybody else see Jacob Prasch’s error in his refusal and at the what cost to the sheep?
• In the letter you state that “I believe the answers to these three questions will, together, provide the key to the mystery of why Moriel staff are now treating you the way they are.”

Not sure how familiar you are with Moriel/Jacob Prasch ; but his treatment and behavior anytime he feels threatened or gets a “bee in his bonnet” for whatever reason has always been brutish, vicious and extreme. So much so that he appears many times to be in need of medication. This is NOT meant to be a slam, this is very serious, as he has gone unchecked for quite some time.
• You say, “My guess is that your errors caused someone at Moriel to become suspicious and to examine your video more closely to try to determine whether your misleading material is accidental or deliberate__i.e. to find out what is in your spiritual “DNA”.
. You assume and “guess” much about what Moriel/Prasch may or may not be thinking, which only slants your letter more that lends credibility to it.

• You say; “You will probably now claim to no longer believe the doctrines discussed above, even though you only approved this video a few weeks ago — as if you’ve never, over the whole of the last quarter of a *century*, come across sound teaching on this topic until today.73 But what about the ungodly *techniques* you use? This is hardly the only video of yours displaying these techniques. I admit I am relatively new to your ministry, but *all* of the videos I have watched of yours display this selfsame pattern of: abusing and undermining Scripture; encouraging irreverence towards God; demoting Christ; and stealthily pushing the core beliefs of the Word of Faith movement — apparently without the Lord EVER chastising you for ANY of it.”
You say David Nathan “will probably claim to no longer believe the doctrines discussed” and then you are quick to dismiss this probability and paint him and many of his videos with the same brush as Prasch and Moriel. YET you don’t afford the readers of this open letter the same advantage to yourself as you don’t use your correct name and make reference to some sin that you have apparently repented of but still feel the need to hide. And yet you want us to accept your acknowledgement and repentance of some “sin” ‘through ignorance”, blindly take your explanation on it with no way to test or try it and you don’t use your real name.
• Endnote:(40) Some years ago, largely through ignorance (Hos. 4:6a), I committed the sin of presumption. I foolishly believed I was capable of handling a certain practical, end-time project without recourse to the Lord. As a result, the Lord put me in a really tight spot — one I genuinely considered to be a life-or-death matter not just for me but for other folks too — and I saw no choice but to take some relatively extreme measures to rescue the situation. I have since repented humbly and very deeply of all this and, just as soon as the Lord enables it, I will make appropriate restitution to the four other people who unfortunately got caught up in my delusion. Due to my sin, I have been ostracized by many believers, but I do ask the saints to remember Galatians 6:1. I also ask them to consider King David. He too committed a serious sin (in his case, adultery) and as a result, the Lord put him in a really tight spot where he saw no choice but to take some extreme measures to rescue the situation (even including *murder*, which is certainly quite a lot more serious than anything I did). Yet we do not continue to reject him after he repented.
• Also, the buzz word on identifying David Nathan’s “spiritual DNA” is somewhat disconcerting would you please connect the scriptural dots for this?
• What is Spiritual DNA?
https://www.thebereancall.org/content/tbc-extra-0
• Quotes from the article: “In what appears to be a sincere effort to expound on the Scriptures, which declare “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (2 Cor:5:17), the writer introduces an authoritative, scientific-sounding concept that has no tangible or biblical basis. This error is serious! Just as do mind-science “experts” (such as those in The Secret), he attempts to take what is useful and understood as physical and apply it “scientifically” to the spiritual realm; but “spiritual DNA,” like “thought waves,” are only imagined. Would that all Christians test the spirits that bring such “new revelations” as this!

An article titled “DNA and God” by Bill Donahue reflects on a 2004 Time magazine in which the cover story, “The God Gene,” recounts a search by laboratories to find “spiritual receptors” in physical DNA. Intrigued by “the fact that change can be made to DNA through electricity,” and since “God is not a man” (Num:23:19
), and “God is light” (1 Jn:1:5
), Donahue (a researcher of “hidden ancient wisdom”) reasons that”
• “…we are created in the image and likeness of God suggesting that we too are light….DNA has two aspects to it. One is the physical DNA which the body we use is equipped with through the heredity of our parents. The other is what the Buddhists suggest is a spiritual DNA….That is why I have such strong feelings against executing people. Their spiritual DNA will go into a new body…and do the same evil again.”
• “Notice that both professing Christians and metaphysical spiritualists attempt to explain invisible, intangible spiritual processes with scientific research, supposedly backed up by Scripture. Today, this error is being perpetuated at an increasing rate by two “evangelical” movements, the neo-prophetic “New Apostolic Reformation” (NAR) and the Emerging Church. An NAR prophet, Bob Jones, (no relation to the University of that name) and Paul Keith Davis, who annually issue a “prophetic” proclamation called “The Shepherd’s Rod,” wrote in 2006:”ers to these three questions will, together, provide the key to the mystery of why Moriel staff are now treating you the way they are.”

Not sure how familiar you are with Moriel/Jacob Prasch ; but his treatment and behavior anytime he feels threatened or gets a “bee in his bonnet” for whatever reason has always been brutish, vicious and extreme. So much so that he appears many times to be in need of medication. This is NOT meant to be a slam, this is very serious, as he has gone unchecked for quite some time.
• You say, “My guess is that your errors caused someone at Moriel to become suspicious and to examine your video more closely to try to determine whether your misleading material is accidental or deliberate__i.e. to find out what is in your spiritual “DNA”.
. You assume and “guess” much about what Moriel/Prasch may or may not be thinking, which only slants your letter more that lends credibility to it.

• You say; “You will probably now claim to no longer believe the doctrines discussed above, even though you only approved this video a few weeks ago — as if you’ve never, over the whole of the last quarter of a *century*, come across sound teaching on this topic until today.73 But what about the ungodly *techniques* you use? This is hardly the only video of yours displaying these techniques. I admit I am relatively new to your ministry, but *all* of the videos I have watched of yours display this selfsame pattern of: abusing and undermining Scripture; encouraging irreverence towards God; demoting Christ; and stealthily pushing the core beliefs of the Word of Faith movement — apparently without the Lord EVER chastising you for ANY of it.”
You say David Nathan “will probably claim to no longer believe the doctrines discussed” and then you are quick to dismiss this probability and paint him and many of his videos with the same brush as Prasch and Moriel. YET you don’t afford the readers of this open letter the same advantage to yourself as you don’t use your correct name and make reference to some sin that you have apparently repented of but still feel the need to hide. And yet you want us to accept your acknowledgement and repentance of some “sin” ‘through ignorance”, blindly take your explanation on it with no way to test or try it and you don’t use your real name.
• Endnote:(40) Some years ago, largely through ignorance (Hos. 4:6a), I committed the sin of presumption. I foolishly believed I was capable of handling a certain practical, end-time project without recourse to the Lord. As a result, the Lord put me in a really tight spot — one I genuinely considered to be a life-or-death matter not just for me but for other folks too — and I saw no choice but to take some relatively extreme measures to rescue the situation. I have since repented humbly and very deeply of all this and, just as soon as the Lord enables it, I will make appropriate restitution to the four other people who unfortunately got caught up in my delusion. Due to my sin, I have been ostracized by many believers, but I do ask the saints to remember Galatians 6:1. I also ask them to consider King David. He too committed a serious sin (in his case, adultery) and as a result, the Lord put him in a really tight spot where he saw no choice but to take some extreme measures to rescue the situation (even including *murder*, which is certainly quite a lot more serious than anything I did). Yet we do not continue to reject him after he repented.
• Also, the buzz word on identifying David Nathan’s “spiritual DNA” is somewhat disconcerting would you please connect the scriptural dots for this?
• What is Spiritual DNA?
https://www.thebereancall.org/content/tbc-extra-0
• Quotes from the article: “In what appears to be a sincere effort to expound on the Scriptures, which declare “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (2 Cor:5:17), the writer introduces an authoritative, scientific-sounding concept that has no tangible or biblical basis. This error is serious! Just as do mind-science “experts” (such as those in The Secret), he attempts to take what is useful and understood as physical and apply it “scientifically” to the spiritual realm; but “spiritual DNA,” like “thought waves,” are only imagined. Would that all Christians test the spirits that bring such “new revelations” as this!

An article titled “DNA and God” by Bill Donahue reflects on a 2004 Time magazine in which the cover story, “The God Gene,” recounts a search by laboratories to find “spiritual receptors” in physical DNA. Intrigued by “the fact that change can be made to DNA through electricity,” and since “God is not a man” (Num:23:19
), and “God is light” (1 Jn:1:5
), Donahue (a researcher of “hidden ancient wisdom”) reasons that”
• “…we are created in the image and likeness of God suggesting that we too are light….DNA has two aspects to it. One is the physical DNA which the body we use is equipped with through the heredity of our parents. The other is what the Buddhists suggest is a spiritual DNA….That is why I have such strong feelings against executing people. Their spiritual DNA will go into a new body…and do the same evil again.”

• “Notice that both professing Christians and metaphysical spiritualists attempt to explain invisible, intangible spiritual processes with scientific research, supposedly backed up by Scripture. Today, this error is being perpetuated at an increasing rate by two “evangelical” movements, the neo-prophetic “New Apostolic Reformation” (NAR) and the Emerging Church. An NAR prophet, Bob Jones, (no relation to the University of that name) and Paul Keith Davis, who annually issue a “prophetic” proclamation called “The Shepherd’s Rod,” wrote in 2006:”

John Cambridge aka Dusty Peterson/Neville John Rainier

David Nathan: Addressing BOLM in Regards to Jacob Prasch's Videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2TnH52Rmu0&feature=youtu.be

{1} https://www.moriel.org/articles-and-news/7143-a-solution-to-your-confusion-an-open-letter-to-david-nathan-dec-6,-2018.html?fbclid=IwAR3CVOPigGXdKMC7_Lb_w2PT3ma3HsYlCPxiqYMYzyIVBiUxSFgMplbiB-0

{2}https://www.moriel.org/articles-and-news/7143-a-solution-to-your-confusion-an-open-letter-to-david-nathan-dec-6,-2018.html
{3} http://prophecyupdate.blogspot.com/2011/07/in-news_18.html
{4} https://www.moriel.org/component/k2/item/1454-warning-to-our-readers.html?ml=1
{5} https://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/6rmt2-well-known-christian-writer-borrowed-20-000-euros.html
{6} http://www.lamblion.us/2011/07/twelve-signs-of-end-times-apostasy.html

DAVID NATHAN: ADDRESSING BOLM IN REGARDS TO JACOB PRASCH

Bill Randles.. To My Dear Friend...
https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/12/07/to-my-dear-friend/

BILL RANDLES BLOG - THE MENELAWS ARE MY FRIENDS

Posted by Bill Randles on December 1, 2018

by billrandles

"As my readers know, I have been involved in the ongoing debate concerning certain statements made by David Nathan which I and many others consider to be heretical. I have tried to help clear up any misunderstandings wherever I felt I could, as well as attempting to be fair and give the benefit of the doubt wherever possible.

Contrary to the opinions of a good many I have always maintained that I do not agree with the way people are being spoken of and treated in this debate by Jacob and certain Moriel reps. I have just tried to avoid going there, seeing the doctrinal issues of primary concern. Everyone knows that public relations aren’t Moriel’s strong point, but this goes too far.

However As this debate has shifted into a discussion of the Motives and actions of Stewart and Debbie Menelaws, I am forced to have to distance myself. I cannot stand by as they are portrayed as greedy, self serving, and even heretical, 

I have always maintained that Stewart’s interview with David was inadequate, failing to ask the specific questions that would have either allowed David to clear up the concerns raised or would have forced him to be specific in what he believes.

But I have attributed to Stewart the best of motives in it knowing him to be a peace loving brother trying to help a bad situation.

Even when Stewart posted the small excerpt from the Q/A at my church, but didn’t include the previous segment of teaching by David which we all objected to, I didn’t and do not attribute dishonesty to Stewart in that. God alone knows the secrets of men’s hearts.

This has been a painful situation to the body of Christ, a tragedy!

I simply have to draw the line when the Menelaws are portrayed by a cheap shot cut and paste of a picture surrounded by hundred dollar bills. I am all for debate and discussion, but not character assassination. I know the Menelaws, and have been a guest in their house, they live simply, and seek to promote the gospel. 

Furthermore it is unconscionable to post pictures equating the Menelaws with Jim and Tammy and the Crouch’s, they just aren’t in that category.

Many have sought to pressure me to take a side in this debate and have taunted me and challenged me to be even in my input, as if I am some kind of a referee at a prizefight. I am not taking sides, my side is with the Body of Christ, and the cause of truth,  I am not a partisan for any other side. My concern has been doctrinal, others can discuss politeness or the lack thereof, God didn’t call me to be the umpire.

But I don’t think the Menelaws merit being represented this way, I think I know them,  they, like the rest of us are trying to process this mess in the best way they can and need lots of prayer, as does the body of Christ.

In Jesus name, pas bill randles."

https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/12/01/the-menelaws-are-my-friends/

The original Moriel video depicting the Menelaws as money grabbers by surrounding them with dollar bills has been taken down, edited and replaced with no explanation. As always, it is very necessary to expose the evidence of Prasch's duplicity. I have obtained a screenshot of the original from Google Images:

JACOB PRASCH MORIEL MINISTRIES: THE TEN AND THE FORTY

Moriel Scotland Conference - Jacob Prasch - Session 3, Day 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDxV2PCDIGk

Prasch introduces his teaching on "the ten and the forty" towards the very end of this session at approximately 52 minutes. After explaining how the Counting the Omer of Leviticus 23:15–16 is also applicable to the period between the resurrection and Pentecost, Prasch goes on to falsely apply the Omer eschatologically to the end of the age.

Prasch: "Eschatologically however the same thing happens at the end of the age.. there will be a bride in travail - there will be another harvest of Israel - all Israel will be saved.. These things will happen again. At the end of the seven weeks there was a ten day period between the ascension and Pentecost that was very very difficult for the apostles and the believers, the hundred and twenty.." (55:45) ..Remember the ten is always from Satan." (57:25)

The contention that the ten day period between the ascension and Pentecost was "very very difficult" for the apostles and believers is completely unfounded. A simple review of Acts 1 shows the very opposite to be the case:

On the first day of the week, the day of the resurrection, the apostles received the Holy Spirit: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (John 20:19-22). During the forty day period before his ascension, Jesus taught them and gave them many convincing proofs, speaking things pertaining to the kingdom of God. (Acts 1:3). After Jesus' ascension, during the ten days before Pentecost, the believers were praying together and planning ahead: They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers. (Acts 1:14). Matthias was chosen to replace Judas Iscariot. (Acts 1:15-26). The number ten, in this instance, is a picture of faith and confidence as the believers waited for the Holy Spirit and their future mission as His witnesses. (Acts 1:8). Where are Prasch's "difficulties", and what has any of this got to do with Satan? Neither the number ten or forty are applicable to Prasch's warped eschatology!

The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: (Acts 1:1-3).

We need to question why Prasch teaches such a thing, or rather several things, that are the diametric opposite of the scriptures, things that completely misrepresent the events that will take place at the end of the age.

Referring to the ten days in between Jesus' ascension and Pentecost as "that point", Prasch continues: "It was at that point they finally realised who the son of perdition was.."

There is no evidence to suggest that the disciples realised who the son of perdition was during the ten days prior to Pentecost. Actually, there is every indication that the disciples knew exactly who the son of perdition was on the first day, on the Emmaus Road, and not during this ten day period. Jesus revealed that Judas Iscariot would betray him at the last supper. (John 13:21-26). After betraying him, Judas returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders and went and hanged himself. (Matthew 27:3-5). It seems extremely likely that the disciples would be aware of these events.

On the Emmaus Road - the same day as the Resurrection: And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27).

Peter reviews the events concerning Judas Iscariot after Jesus' ascension. This review precedes the proposal to choose Judas Iscariot's replacement. (Acts 1:20-26).

“Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” (Acts 1:16-17).

Prasch: "At the end of the age it will be the same. At this point we will realise who the Antichrist is..."

If Prasch's supposed eschatological Omer is equivalent to the tribulation as he teaches, then the revelation of the Antichrist "at this point" is unsound. The scriptures tell us very clearly that the Antichrist will be revealed at the mid point of Daniel's 70th week i.e. immediately prior to the tribulation. (2 Thessalonians 2:8).

Prasch: Now it has its equivalent in the ?, the Ten Days of Awe in between the Feast of Trumpets and Yom Kippur, a ten day period.. ten is always Satan.

This is an extraordinary piece of misinformation in light of the Jewish explanation of the Ten Days of Awe:

"The ten days from Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur are known as Aseret Yemei Teshuvah, or the Ten Days of Repentance (more accurately translated as the Ten Days of Return). When the prophet Isaiah tells the Jewish nation to repent for their sins, he says, “Seek G‑d when He may be found; call Him when He is close.”1 When is that? The sages say that this verse refers to these ten days, when G‑d is especially close to us." {1}

Prasch also teaches inaccurately about the ten and the forty on his website:

Prasch: “Forty is the number of testing when the test comes from God. Ten is the number of testing when it is not from God. God may allow it for His purpose. In Daniel’s day Israel was tested at the hands of the Babylonians. In Smyrna believers in Jesus were tested at the hands of the Romans and the Pagans. When the test comes NOT from God, the number is ten.” {2}

There are a number of instances that the number forty, not necessarily days, is associated with testing in the scriptures. However, we cannot apply it in this instance. In this context, the appearances of Jesus to the disciples for forty days after the resurrection was a period of instruction and preparation: (Acts 1:1-3). Its counterpart can be found on Mount Sinai when Moses received the commandments for forty days and nights. (Exodus 24:18; 34:28).

Prasch has based his tenuous argument for “the ten and the forty” on one short excerpt of scripture from Daniel 1. He has previously linked the ten days tribulation in Smyrna with Daniel 1:8-16, specifically, verses 12 and 14, where the period of ten days is repeated three times.

Prasch: “Then there is this period of ten days. It says it four times. Explicitly three times, and then it refers to it as ‘the end of the days’ the fourth time..... Then at the end of the days which the king had specified for presenting them, the commander of the officials presented them before Nebuchadnezzar. (At the end of the ten days.)”

The phrase: “the end of ten days” appears once in verse 15, and “ten days” appears twice in verses 12 and 14. Prasch's assumption that the phrase “the end of the days” in Daniel 1:18 relates specifically to the end of the ten days is false. Verse 18 does not refer to the end of the literal ten days at all; in fact it refers to the end of the three year period specified by Nebuchadnezzar, see Daniel 1:5. The omission of the word “ten” in verse 18 is inserted by Prasch in order to fit in with his “end of the (ten) days” tribulation theory.

But Daniel resolved that he would not defile himself with the king’s food, or with the wine that he drank. Therefore he asked the chief of the eunuchs to allow him not to defile himself. 9And God gave Daniel favor and compassion in the sight of the chief of the eunuchs, 10and the chief of the eunuchs said to Daniel, “I fear my lord the king, who assigned your food and your drink; for why should he see that you were in worse condition than the youths who are of your own age? So you would endanger my head with the king.” 11Then Daniel said to the steward whom the chief of the eunuchs had assigned over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, 12“Test your servants for ten days; let us be given vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13Then let our appearance and the appearance of the youths who eat the king’s food be observed by you, and deal with your servants according to what you see.” 14So he listened to them in this matter, and tested them for ten days. 15At the end of ten days it was seen that they were better in appearance and fatter in flesh than all the youths who ate the king’s food. 16So the steward took away their food and the wine they were to drink, and gave them vegetables. 17As for these four youths, God gave them learning and skill in all literature and wisdom, and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams. 18At the end of the time, when the king had commanded that they should be brought in, the chief of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar. (Daniel 1:8-18).

There are several problems associated with Prasch’s eisegesis of “the ten and the forty” and the meaning of “ten days” in biblical typology. He makes the assumption that we always read Daniel in light of Revelation. This is true of the prophetic material found in Daniel, but the context of Daniel 1 is historical and not prophetic. Furthermore the context of Daniel 1 does not match Revelation in the sense that Prasch teaches. The ten days that Daniel and his companions were tested was not a period of tribulation, much less the terrors of the persecution that took place in Smyrna. Although they had been taken into captivity, God gave Daniel favour and compassion in the sight of the chief of the eunuchs. (Daniel 1:9). Christ tells the believers in Smyrna “be faithful to death..” - this was not the case with Daniel who invited the test (v 12). The ten days that the Christians in Smyrna were to be tested was, in my view, a literal ten days, whereas the great tribulation goes on for 3.5 years (cut short). (Matthew 24:22).

When we come across the words test, trial and tribulation, we do need to look at the context. A test, peirazó, is to test or to tempt, whereas tribulation, usually, but not always, goes a stage further, thlipsis in this case. Revelation 2 uses both words in relation to Smyrna. Daniel 1 (Hebrew nasah) has the same meaning as peirazó prove, tempt, try. The word “test” (nasah) in Daniel 1:12 is frequently used of God in relation to men, as in Genesis 22:1. God did prove Abraham.

Apart from Daniel 1, ten days are specifically mentioned in the scriptures in Nehemiah 5:18, Genesis 24:55; Jeremiah 42:7. Ten relates to God’s authority over human government and law, as in Exodus 20:1-17; Deuteronomy 5:6-21; 1 Kings 11:31-35; Ruth 4:2). Ten also represents human government under the influence of Satan e.g. the ten toes of iron and clay (Daniel 2:42), and the beast with ten horns (Revelation 10:24; 13:1 17:12). “Ten is viewed as a complete and perfect number, as is 3, 7 and 12. It is made up of 4, the number of the physical creation, the number of man. As such, it signifies testimony, law, responsibility and the completeness of order.” {3} Daniel 1 actually fits into the ten day paradigm perfectly. Nebuchadnezzar, a type of the Antichrist, seeks to impose his unrighteous will upon the faithful believers who are his captives. However, Daniel and his companions prove the government of God over the government under the influence of Satan over a period of ten days, and indeed ultimately. The king’s "choice food" is unfit for consumption by the people of God.. there is much symbolism here, but tribulation is excluded.

Prasch: He first going to try to destroy the church? Do you understand?"

The Antichrist will go after Israel (the woman) first before he turns his attention towards the church:

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (Israel) which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 12:13-17).

Prasch's false eschatology identifies the Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 as the Holy Spirit. This is a further case of blatant eisegesis! The scriptures do not identify the Restrainer at all! It was false teacher John Nelson Darby who originally identified the Restrainer as the Holy Spirit. This dubious assumption concerning the identity of the Restrainer forms part of pre-trib eschatology to this day. 

Prasch not only deprives the world of the Holy Spirit for the entire seven year period of Daniel's 70th week, he now begins to deny the Holy Spirit's presence among believers during the tribulation! On two separate occasions Prasch teaches that the presence of the Holy Spirit will diminish among believers as we proceed into his fictional Omer.

Moriel Scottish Conference 2018 - Jacob Prasch - Gartmore - 3 Nov 2018:
Session 4 - Saturday 3rd November 2018

Prasch: "The presence of the Lord in the churches is going to become more scarce as we proceed into the Omer." (33:00) 

Prasch: The same thing happens again. At the end there will be no church, there will only be individual believers, disunited with no power, standing in hope of the return of Christ. As Jesus went and sent the Spirit, the Holy Spirit goes, not from our hearts, but from restraining in the world, and sends Jesus.. There is a gap period, a ten day period it has its equivalence in the Oran? for Israel and the Jews in the Days of Awe. This is the Omer. The Omer shows us what it is going to be like at the end of the age..... Secondly, there will be a very serious testing of faith.. His presence will be more and more withdrawn, although he is not gone yet. (1:05).

For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” (Matthew 18:20).

And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:20 cf. 2 Corinthians 11:4; John 10:10). 

Prasch's denial of the presence of the Holy Spirit eschatologically is nothing less than blatant heresy!!!

As mentioned in my previous post, Prasch brazenly switches the Emmaus Road events to the day after the resurrection. The fictional "second day of the Omer", is Prasch's pièce de résistance as far as deception goes. {4}

Prasch’s phony eschatology and his scripture twisting is beyond ridiculous. Not only is it beyond ridiculous, it is extremely dangerous for those who are foolish enough to take it on board. I am astonished that the men who share a platform with Prasch have not corrected him scripturally. Surely they cannot be unaware of the problems, not only with his heretical denial of the presence of the Holy Spirit eschatologically, but also the vile behaviour exhibited by his vicious attack upon David Nathan and others. Their silence makes these men culpable. I have recently asked Bill Randles for his thoughts on Prasch's intra-seal theory and his more recent false teaching in Scotland.

{1} https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1620809/jewish/The-Ten-Days-of-Repentance-The-Aseret-Yemay-Teshuvah.htm
{2} https://www.moriel.org/online-sermons/23-sermons-in-english/5920-when-god-speaks.html
https://youtu.be/DIyCfAs7Li0
{3} http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/10.html
{4} https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2018/11/jacob-prasch-moriel-ministries-counting.html