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Tuesday 11 December 2018

DAVID NATHAN TO ENGAGE WITH JACOB PRASCH NEXT YEAR

As David Nathan is not on Facebook, he has asked a number of people to share the good news that he looks forward to engaging with James Jacob Prasch next year on neutral ground in England.
He wrote the following to Bill Randles:
Dear Bill
Thank you for getting all parties to agree to meet and resolve the issues that have arisen over the last few months. This can only bring correction and repentance were needed and most importantly, healing to the Church as a whole, something that I have desired from the very outset which is evidenced in all my responses to Jacob and Moriel.
Having reflected overnight on the proposed meeting, which I am absolutely committed to, I would like to recommend that the following be taken into consideration as it is I who have to defend myself according to both Titus 3:10 and in a sense 1 Timothy 5:19 against numerous accusations.
Firstly and most importantly, I would like the meeting to take place in the UK, at a central venue that Jacob approves of. This is not negotiable for me and should be agreeable for Jacob who is resident in the UK. Some of the reasons for this are;
- Both parties have a strong support base in the UK whereas only one has one in the USA.
- I am able to easily call witnesses to testify in the UK as many are based there. The monies Believers in Grace would save in paying our airfares and accommodation could be used for you to travel to the UK where you are greatly loved and respected.
- All the council members of CMFI are resident in the UK and they too have strongly urged their members to avoid me. I have the right to be addressed by them and be able to make a defence.
- There are numerous highly respected Greek and Hebrew scholars if required, some whom are well known to Jacob.
- If Jacob’s claims that I am a heretic are correct and to be avoided, then it must be before those where I have ministered most often for the protection of their churches.
Due to the numerous accusations that have been levelled against me by Jacob and others, I request that the meeting deal with each of the doctrinal concerns that have been raised over the last 4 to 5 months and not be limited to the two you initially suggested.
The accusation that I call myself an apostle needs to be addressed and dealt with too.
Jacob has mentioned in numerous emails that I have been “blacklisted” from numerous churches both in the UK, USA, Australia and South Africa. I request a letter from each of the churches he refers to, from the senior pastor, stating the reason why they no longer want me in their churches as I have a right to defend myself against these accusations also. For example, a letter from Steve Mitchell from FBC in Columbus Ohio stating the reasons why he as the senior pastor will never have me back based on what I have taught at his church. The reason for this is that some churches will not have me back because I they are cessationists or I taught against OSAS or they are strongly pre-trip in regards the Rapture, or a combination of all three. The reality that those ministers outside of the UK will probably not be able to attend, necessitates that their letters reach me (copies to all on this mailing list is suggested) well before the date of the meeting that I have the opportunity to give a rebuttal to their letters and receive a further response.
Finally, that the manner and spirit in which this whole affair has been dealt with be addressed and where parties have acted in a manner contrary to Scripture, they are held accountable.
I trust that the above, which I believe to be fair in light of all that has transpired, is acceptable to you.
Sincerely,
David Nathan

9 comments:

  1. This is becoming more and more confusing. The moriel tv facebook page posted a response from Jacob where he accepted an invitation (apparently from Pastor Bill Randles?) to debate. I don't know where the above post from David Nathan was published; however, David seems to indicate that it's going to be some kind of forum where he can call witnesses on his own behalf in order to defend himself. Treena, do you know whether this is going to be some sort of kangaroo court or a debate? Thanks for posting this by the way.

    As an aside, when I saw that Pastor Bill Randles was trying to facilitate some sort of meeting between the two men (based on a post I saw also on Moriel TV), and that this meeting would be months away my first reaction was: "You mean all this is going to drag out for another three or four months?!!!"

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  2. This information has come directly from David Nathan Anonymous. I do not have any further information about the format at the present time. God bless.

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  3. Prior to David Nathan's letter:
    Prasch: "I certainly would be willing to debate David Nathan over his teachings which, like Bill Randles, I have also determine to be heretical and false concerning the issues specified. The unedited video clips of David Nathan's teachings that precipitated these events must of course be played and challenged by myself and defended by David Nathan in fair, open and moderated doctrinal debate.
    I am prepared to engage in this debate at the very first slot I have available to do so on my next scheduled visit to North Americas in early Spring.
    Standard debate procedure with rebuttals can be followed. Also, one experienced debate moderator independent of either side and independent of the hosting church, one independent co-moderator literate in Biblical Hebrew & one co-moderator literate in New Testament Greek."

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  4. Thank you for your response, Treena. It was kind of you to respond so quickly.

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  5. When any further details become available I will post them Anonymous.
    God bless.

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  6. This is a bad idea. They should stick to debating the scripture. Then let people make up their own minds on that.

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  7. Moriel TV
    7 hrs ·
    AFTER ACCEPTING THEW INVITATION OF BILL RANDLES TO DEBATE , DAVID NATHAN BACKS DOWN AND RUNS AWAY AGAIN
    Moriel was delighted when David Nathan had enthusiastically and instantly accepted the invitation of Pastor Bill Randles to debate Jacob Prasch on the fixed doctrinal issues that ignited the present situation to be held at Bill Randles' church. David Nathan and Jacob Prasch both in writing agreed. Jacob has likewise accepted. The debate agreed to first by David Nathan and then immediately afterwards by Jacob Prasch by the invitation of Bill Randles was by David Nathan's agreement and then by Jacob to be a debated at Bill's church with the usual moderated debate forum with a moderator keeping time and keeping the debaters solidly on point, and with two co-moderators literate in New Testament Greek and biblicalical Hebrew. There was to bel uninterrupted right of rebuttal for both sides and David Nathan's teaching videos would be shown unedited affording him an opportunity to defend his doctrinal statements from his opponent who would challenge them in a fair forum that would l be globally live streamed and video recorded.
    Here are the exact emails of Bill Randles extending the invitation to debate at his church in the USA and of David Nathan and Jacob Prasch accepting.
    This debate that both parties agreed to at the invitation to Bill Randles' church was the only genuine and constructive opportunity to resolve existing differences through the decisive theological resolution of the very serious doctrinal issues that have caused these differences.
    Unfortunately, for the second time David Nathan has given and broken his word as he first did in Los Angeles and is now apparently running scared having renegade on the debate he agreed to, rather insisting a silly charade of some description to be held not at Bill Randles' church as he agreed , but in the UK instead of the doctrinal debate he had in writing accepted.,
    The exact correspondence between Bill Randles, David Nathan and Jacob Prasch is as follows:
    As you can see, David Nathan changed nearly all of the terms the following day after enthusiastically accepting Pastor Randles' invitation in order to ensure that a proper debate as offered could not take place.He accepted the terms as proposed and then changed his mind the next day with nearly a dozen new stipulations.
    Jesus said such conduct is of the devil: "Let your yes be yes, and your no be no - anything further comes from the Wicked One (Matthew 5:37).

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  8. DAVID NATHAN
    From: David Nathan
    Date: Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:47 PM
    Subject: Re:
    To: Bill Randles
    Cc: Jacob Prasch
    Dear Bill
    I would welcome any attempt that will bring clarification of the issues expressed as concerns and reconciliation.
    The Body has been hurt by this and I gladly accept your offer.
    Sincerely,
    David
    ---------
    JACOB PRASCH
    On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 6:51 PM Jacob Prasch wrote:
    I certainly would be willing to debate David Nathan over his teachings which I also determine
    to be heretical and false concerning the issues specified. The unedited video clips of David Nathan's teaching
    can be played and challenged by myself and defended by David Nathan in fair, open and moderated doctrinal debate.
    I am prepared to engage in this debate at the very first slot I have available to do so on my next scheduled visit to
    North Americas in early Spring.
    In Christ,
    JJ Prasch

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  9. Bill Randles:
    Debate Cancelled for Now…
    Posted on December 12, 2018

    "In the Spirit of Truth and Love I thought it would be good for David Nathan and Jacob Prasch to have an opportunity to show the body of Christ a healthy way to discuss their theological differences in a biblical, controlled setting.
    I offered our local church, Believers in Grace Fellowship, and we even offered to pay the airfare of the two, and to provide lodging over a weekend.
    Both men readily agreed, (which we found very encouraging) , but each then began to specify the terms and conditions they would agree to…(fair enough). Jacob required language experts,Greek and Hebrew to be present at the debate. David made it nonnegotiable that the debate occur in the UK.
    I have no problem with that but made clear that I am not qualified to facilitate a debate in the UK. I see why the UK would perhaps be more accessible than Iowa, so I left it to both gentlemen to work it out from here on.
    In no way do I regard David as having backed out, he simply wanted a change of venue although he had already initially agreed to come to Iowa. No harm, no foul.
    I sincerely hope a debate can happen. The carnality of the last couple of months has actually obscured two issues in particular in my humble opinion,
    David's troubling statement that “ the blood of Jesus will profit no one in the Millennium “
    And also David’s statement that “…the Father created nothing…”
    The body of Christ deserves better than the sordid level of debate we have seen thus far. I still think it possible to get this right, but it will require true humility of both men and their supporters.
    Satan desires to have us that he may sift us like wheat, but Jesus ever lives to make intercession for us."
    https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/12/12/debate-cancelled-for-now/?fbclid=IwAR0s9e34ZNiTtNnA9B4_KydKavwpbBn3uRqQFz6N5VUa5wYbl7Eu7H9yQjo

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