JOE SCHIMMEL BLESSED HOPE CHAPEL: THE SIXTH SEAL, THE SEVENTH TRUMPET AND THE SEVENTH BOWL

Sunday Morning Service 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Y5PrIC-ME

I have attempted to broach the question of the post-tribulation rapture view with Good Fight Ministries previously, in particular their view of the seals, trumpets and bowls. My discussion with GFM on the below link exposed a blind spot in their understanding of the timing of the rapture as it relates to the cosmic disturbances in Matthew 24:29-31. In fact all three synoptic gospels confirm the proximity of the rapture to the cosmic disturbances in Revelation 6:12-14. Although I am on board with Joe Schimmel (Blessed Hope Chapel/GFM) in many respects, their post-trib rapture view does not stand up to close scrutiny. (Acts 17:11).

Good Fight Ministries Scewed Post-trib Rapture View

https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2020/04/good-fight-ministries-skewed-post-trib.html

Why is this question important?

How can post-trib proponents successfully oppose the pre-tribulation rapture when their own position has obvious flaws?  

Sadly the post-trib position does nothing to dispel the confusion surrounding the controversial subject of the timing of the rapture. To their discredit, the post-trib camp cannot defend their position biblically. This post is more detailed than my previous efforts, in the hope that Joe Schimmel and his team will study the scriptures rather than argue their position from preconceived ideas and eisegesis. (2 Timothy 2:15). 

According to Joe Schimmel, the sixth seal, the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl correspond to one another i.e. they are the same events. Joe mentions an unreliable third century church father by the name of Victorinus. Apparently Victorinus was the first of the Church Fathers to ascertain the basic notion of repetition – that the Apocalypse is not one uninterrupted and developing line of prophecy, but rather that various subdivisions run parallel with each other. And he saw that the theme of the soon coming Second Advent was a continuous thread of thought throughout the Apocalypse.{1} Joe Schimmel "..he (Victorinus) talks about a recapitulation, and how the bowls overlap.. they are not written consecutively.. but whatever you believe about that, ultimately you need to understand this.. that prior to Christs coming in Revelation chapter 19, the Bride has been made ready.."  

Joe Schimmel's phrase "whatever you believe about that" assigns the subject to a non-essential category, i.e. whatever we happen believe about the timing of the rapture will not ultimately affect our salvation. In the case of pre-trib view I do not agree. There is a distinct possibility that pre-trib believers will "fall away" during the great tribulation. As such there is an inescapable correlation between the pre-trib rapture view and salvation. (Matthew 24:10; 1 Timothy 4:1). Moreover, there are significant reasons why the post-trib/prewrath debate should not be trivialized. If we fall short in this respect, we may unintentionally put a stumbling block in the way of our pre-trib friends, and also those who throw their hands in the air and say that they are "pan-trib" (it will all pan out i.e. those who underrate the significance of the rapture question). (Leviticus 19:14; 2 Corinthians 6:3). A growing number of Christians now adhere to the prewrath rapture position, having studied the scriptures and rightly divided the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15). 

Joe Schimmel rightly says that it is imperative that we have a right understanding of the timing of events in the book of Revelation. He says: "We are warned not to add or take away from this book, we dare not trifle with the outline that Jesus gave us.. God does not want us to add or take away from just one verse of the book of Revelation.. When you come up with a theology, or an eschatology ~ an eschatological construct that destroys the entire book... think what that does to God's heart.."  

I do not claim that the post-trib rapture view destroys the whole book of Revelation. However, this view is problematic and potentially damaging for the reasons outlined above. When scripture is misinterpreted it is often the thin end of the wedge. (1 Corinthians 4:6). CH Spurgeon: "It is knowing the difference between right and almost right. ... The devil likes to mix his lies with just enough of the truth to make it look plausible." 

Victorinus: "The Apocalypse here shows, therefore, that these reapers, and shepherds, and labourers, are the angels. And the trumpet is the word of power. And although the same thing recurs in the phials, still it is not said as if it occurred twice, but because what is decreed by the Lord to happen shall be once for all; for this cause it is said twice. What, therefore, He said too little in the trumpets, is here found in the phials. We must not regard the order of what is said, because frequently the Holy Spirit, when He has traversed even to the end of the last times, returns again to the same times, and fills up what He had before failed to say. Nor must we look for order in the Apocalypse; but we must follow the meaning of those things which are prophesied. Therefore in the trumpets and phials is signified either the desolation of the plagues that are sent upon the earth, or the madness of Antichrist himself, or the cutting off of the peoples, or the diversity of the plagues, or the hope in the kingdom of the saints, or the ruin of states, or the great overthrow of Babylon, that is, the Roman state." {2}

The sixth seal:

When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, (Revelation 6:12).
Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31).

Matthew 24 specifically locates the cosmic disturbances of Revelation 6 immediately after the great tribulation. The rapture becomes imminent after the cosmic disturbances of the sixth seal i.e. it occurs between and the sixth seventh seal. The sixth seal indicates the impending wrath of God, specifically, the chronological sets of seven trumpet and and seven bowl judgements following the seventh seal.

The seventh seal:

Revelation 8 follows an explicit sequence of events:

~ The Lamb opens the seventh seal and there is silence in heaven for about half an hour. (v1)

~ Seven trumpets are given to the angels. (v2)

~ The seven angels prepare to blow the trumpets. (v6)

~ The first angel blows his trumpet. (v7).

~ The second to the fourth trumpets are sounded. (v8-12)

~ The remaining three trumpets are about to be sounded. (v13)

This passage is unequivocal. Common sense tells us that the sixth seal precedes the seventh seal and that the trumpets follow the opening of the seventh seal in chronological order. How does Joe Schimmel come up with the conclusion that the sixth seal and the seventh trumpet are the same event?

When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake. Now the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to blow them. The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up. (Revelation 8-1-7). 

There is an increasing intensity in the judgements as the seals, trumpets and bowls are discharged. The seals release natural events: sword, famine and pestilence, culminating in the sixth seal "great earthquake" and the cosmic disturbances, indicating that "the great day of their wrath" is at hand. (Revelation 6:12,17). The seven trumpets differ from the seals in that they are supernatural events dispensed by angels. Note the phrases in Revelation 8: thrown upon the earth, thrown into the sea, a great star fell from heaven, a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars. The three woes indicate even greater intensity. When the fifth angel sounds his trumpet a star falls from heaven to earth. The fifth angel opens the shaft of the bottomless pit releasing demonic "locusts" that torture humans for five months. (Revelation 9:1-7). The sixth trumpet releases four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind. (Revelation 9:15). The seventh trumpet: ..but that in the days of the trumpet call to be (μέλλῃ) sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets. (Revelation  10:7).  μέλλω = 3195 méllō – properly, at the very point of acting; ready, 'about to happen.' {3} The intensity of God's wrath upon the godless increases when the bowls are poured out on the earth. (Revelation 16:1-20). A plain reading of the text suggests a quick chronological succession of events. 

The Fifth Seal Martyrs

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. (Revelation 6:9-11).

This passage indicates that the wrath of God is yet to be discharged. As such, the trumpet and bowl judgments cannot occur before the fifth seal is opened.

There are various additional problems associated with the post-trib view that I have not mentioned in this post. I recommend Alan Kurschner's website for a full assessment of the difficulties associated with this view. 

(See Further Links). 

I would like to see Joe Schimmel and his team specifically address the problems associated with their view. It seems odd that Joe has not applied his usual expertise/exegesis in this area. Inexplicably he offers nothing concrete to substantiate his claims for a post-trib rapture.  

1. https://peoplepill.com/people/victorinus-of-pettau/
2. https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0712.htm
3. https://biblehub.com/greek/3195.htm

Further Links

https://www.alankurschner.com/2014/02/22/seals-trumpets-bowls-at-the-same-time-or-one-after-the-other-i-e-concurrent-recapitulation-or-consecutive-https://www.alankurschner.com/2015/06/04/seals-trumpets-bowls-concurrent-recapitulation-or-consecutive-progressive-part-2-of-2-ep-37/
progressive/https://www.alankurschner.com/2017/08/10/articles-for-posttribulationism-to-consider/

https://www.alankurschner.com/2020/09/05/3-key-reasons-why-posttribbers-are-becoming-prewrath/?fbclid=IwAR0DBb_Mzw0_SRN9uxi5GI69rtNhaRBt3VcfICoTAOCFnYd6CBhypNH9gRs
https://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/emails/prewrathposttrib.html

https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2020/09/joe-schimmel-blessed-hope-chapel.html

PULPIT AND PEN'S BIG SCOOP ON SERVUS CHRISTI: GUTTER PRESS TACTICS

Servus Christi Imports Bride, Fakes Marriage, Sends Her Back After Consummation

https://pulpitandpen.org/2020/08/24/servus-christi-imports-bride-fakes-marriage-sends-her-back-after-consummation/

Associated video: https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/ v=250034606276108&ref=watch_permalink

JD Hall's article and associated video above amounts nothing less than degenerate tabloid newspaper style gossip, supposition and speculation. The scoop was preceded by a tacky countdown clock to "The Terminus of Servus Christi" (aka Joshua Chavez) promising to reveal his life of sin ~ or in JD Hall's terms “beating the weeds”. 

I do not dispute that Joshua Chavez is a wily character and is someone to be avoided. His dogged support for Jacob Prasch is insupportable. He willfully ignores Prasch's theological errors and abuses while at the same time mercilessly attacking others. Chavez's support for Prasch may benefit him in some way, although ultimately I believe it will prove to be a snare. (Jeremiah 5:31). Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? (Romans 2:3).

Despite his double standards, his obvious anger issues and his dubious motives, Chavez's exposure of various Calvinists has been accurate on many levels. Although I am convinced that Chavez is not approved by God, it seems clear that God has used him in a certain way to expose many things that have gone unchecked in the Calvinist camp. These recent exposures of the double standards and rank hypocrisy of the Calvinists are not before time! 

JD Hall has Chavez down as a "sectarian minimalist heretic". While that may be true in Chavez's case, Hall is wrong to condemn countless numbers of Christians worldwide who have given up on their "local church" due to blatant apostasy. In my own immediate area there is a choice between various ecumenical denominations, including the Anglican Church, Pentecostal (AG) and a Calvinist church who teach against eternal damnation amongst other heresies. In other words there is no choice! My own understanding of a valid church: For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” (Matthew 18:29). What does Hall suggest these countless numbers of Christians do for fellowship without compromising the gospel? What does Hall define as "heretical" when his own camp are so very far off the mark? I refer to John MacArthur's advice that people can take the mark of the beast and be saved.. and Phil Johnson's waffling on the subject. I refer to Doreen Virtue's demonic vision of Jesus which was accepted by Lutheran pastor Chris Rosebrough and others until Chavez challenged it. Chris Rosebrough's heretical beliefs and practices include infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, consubstantiation, amillennialism, confession to a priest ~ and yet he is unquestionably accepted by the Calvinists. The Calvinists are a bit like the Freemasons, they always back each other up irrespective of the truth, and they never admit that they are in the wrong. {2} Justin Peters is the only Calvinist I have known to admit that he was wrong and I exclude him from these remarks. 

AND SO TO THE BIG SCOOP

Let's examine the details:

JD Hall has made full use of the woman's testimony that Chavez is a human trafficker. 

JD Hall: "Little did any of us know that amidst these videos and tirades, Chavez was trafficking in humans, using women for sex and money.."  Notice that JD Hall uses plural nouns (i.e. humans ~  women). In reality Hall has ONE woman's own perception of her experience. We need to see solid evidence that Chavez was actually involved in human trafficking rather than basing our opinion on the negative experience of one woman and the suppositions of JD Hall:

“I honestly think he is an evil man and God knows his intentions may be that of a human trafficker.”

"The woman is currently seeking to restore their marriage, even if it can be rightly characterized as 'human trafficking.'”

The woman would have a very difficult time legally proving a charge of "human trafficking" against Chavez. According to the Human Rights Commission the three most common types of human trafficking are sex trafficking, forced labor, and debt bondage. "Some survivors are 'mail-order' brides who believe they are going to a new country for marriage, but instead are enslaved." {1} This woman was not "enslaved". 

JD Hall says that the woman had professional job in South Africa.. and then he contradicts himself saying that her job was not that lucrative.

Apparently Chavez's motive apart from sex was "desiring that she work in a professional field in order to finance his ministry", but her three month visa did not allow her to get a job in the US. This does not make sense. Why did the woman obtain a temporary visa if she intended to marry Chavez and stay in the country?

JD Hall: "Reportedly, Chavez’s mother is overbearing and 'controls him.' " (this is gossip ~ 2 Corinthians 12:20).

JD Hall: "Allegedly, the young woman had a fair amount of financial savings."

If this allegation is correct, then the woman was by no means vulnerable or in a position of powerlessness. 

So essentially we have an attractive professional woman with a fair amount of financial savings travelling to the US from South Africa on a three month visa to marry Chavez after a short internet romance, knowingly participating in a fake marriage, going on "honeymoon" and sleeping with Chavez, and then playing the victim. The woman says that Chavez has the "Jezebel spirit" and is "an evil man". And she wants to reconcile with him! What woman in her right mind would want to restore a fake marriage with an evil man and a human trafficker? Why would an attractive professional woman with money be so desperate or stupid to do such a thing? The whole thing is totally bizarre!  This woman's story would not stand up in court.

When I mentioned these things to JD Hall on his website comments he responded by calling me a "victim blaming sycophant" and then followed up with a GIF saying "I'm your Huckleberry" (whatever that means).

Tim Wirth obviously agrees:

  

WHERE ARE THE FACTS JD HALL?

Hall: "While rumors have circulated for over a year that Chavez recently had a live-in girlfriend (while working for Moriel) with whom he soon eloped and then immediately divorced, we were unable to verify that information. That is, we were unable to verify the information until her concerned friends from various support groups reached out to us with their desperate pleas for help. We have since been able to verify their accounts through various sources to the best of our journalistic ability. And we have cross-referenced those accounts with correspondence sent us that originated directly from his female victim. But the story is even worse than has been whispered."

Every charge must be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. (2 Corinthians 13:1).

JD Hall has obtained his information from various "support groups" whom he describes as "concerned friends" rather than from the woman herself. I believe the purpose of JD Hall's "countdown clock" may have been to draw her out, but as far as I am aware she has not contacted him personally. It appears that this woman has been abused by two predators, once allegedly by Chavez, and once by JD Hall, who has published this information without her consent.  

To conclude: JD Hall has scored an own goal in his self righteous exposure of Chavez. As Christians, we need to see provable facts before we make any kind of judgement in this matter. (1 Peter 2:1). 

1. https://sf-hrc.org/what-human-trafficking#What%20is
2. http://johnmacarthur.forumchitchat.com/post/is-john-macarthur-a-master-of-the-craft-10065826

FURTHER LINKS:

https://www.redeemingmoments.com/2015/03/13/the-total-depravity-of-certain-calvinists/?fbclid=IwAR0tp6b7PgBc8jZTo8OZrlX1JHZR8xsWgZ1iPHw79vE8-YfWd3jie5qIKAY

https://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/peter_lumpkins/2013/08/jonathan-edwards-on-the-damnation-of-infants.html

DOREEN VIRTUE: BEYOND REPROOF

Undying Light Interview With Doreen Virtue Part 2
https://www.undyinglight.org/amot/z0b5z3cvnmxqhujkriud2c9a9x7b7d?fbclid=IwAR0Fhl1FjbT2-e4YYQuUJO7ceaG6vvEO0kDOLyT1T9FJ5cBG0qKqFRq_ZuU

This is the second part of Reformed Christian Alex Zenk's interview with Doreen Virtue. Zenk raised the subject of Doreen's controversial vision of "Jesus" in chapter 9 of her book Deceived No More. He asked Doreen specifically whether she was concerned about editing chapter 9 on her website following the book's publication and leaving the original version in circulation in the public domain. 

DOREEN'S RESPONSE: "Yes of course, but I just trust God's timing. I am Reformed so I really believe God is sovereign over everything, and so He chose for whatever reason to have this situation revealed to me after the book was at the printer."

In other words, Doreen absolves herself from all responsibility by hiding behind fatalistic Reformed theology. This is all very convenient, but it is unscriptural.

Leighton Flowers (Soteriology 101) exposes the insane contradiction that fatalism poses for Calvinists in his video Do Calvinists affirm Fatalism? {1}

Flowers: "Calvinists do not affirm that you should be fatalistic in the way that you act. However, at the same time they affirm true the tenets which underlie fatalism i.e. the idea of fatalism, that all things are set, they are fixed in such a way that we as human beings cannot affect the future, or we cannot change those things that have been eternally decreed..  they are set in stone.. Because they are set in stone however, we shouldn't behave or act as if that is true. So you should act and behave as if you are affecting the future while believing that you don't.. In other words.. you have to behave like tomorrow depends on you, while believing and holding to a theistic deterministic world view that all things are fated by a divine being i.e. God through a sovereign decree." Flowers correctly identifies theistic determinism as "bad philosophy".

Calvinist John Piper Speaks About Fatalism    

Piper: "The way I stay out of fatalism is by being more biblical than Reformed. That is I don't draw inferences from theological logical suppositions or assumptions.  I go to my bible and I look for verses and sentences and paragraphs that tell me the implications of God's sovereignty.. You can be that logical if you want.. I'm being biblical.." {2} 

Piper's various contradictions and false teachings are too numerous to mention in this post.

If Doreen thinks that allowing her book Deceived No More to be published complete with demonic apparition is not a serious issue, then she needs to think again. To knowingly publish a book that is defiled by a demonic apparition is a very weighty matter. Furthermore, to commission and to promote an image that depicts Jesus in the form of Roman Catholic Divine Mercy/Sacred Heart idolatry falls into the same category as a vile image and a detestable abomination. (Ezekiel 7:20 cf. Deuteronomy 27:15). 

I have recently viewed Doreen's depiction of her vision in her video Jesus Lights Healing Meditation. {3} The video is overtly occult with the focus being primarily on "lights", and not upon the Jesus Christ of the Bible. (2 Corinthians 11:4). It progresses from various idolatrous images of "Jesus" to "healing light rays" and makes no mention of the Bible whatsoever.

Jesus Lights Healing Meditation

Doreen: "It was Jesus with moving rays of light shining from his sacred heart..

... the lights were bright, comforting and healing.."

Doreen describes the image of "Jesus" as being similar to "Divine Mercy" images.

Doreen: "The rays of light from Jesus's heart were multi-directional and silver-gold in colour..
I prayed to understand their deeper meaning and guidance." 

Various idolatrous images of "Jesus" appear throughout the video. At about the half way point, these images give way to mesmerizing lights emanating from a central point of light. Doreen's instruction: "As you watch these healing light rays talk with Jesus about your cares and concerns.."

Doreen had a THREE YEAR time frame in which to work out that there was something drastically wrong with her vision. During this time she steadfastly promoted it as an authentic vision of Jesus ~ there was not a glimmer of hesitation until Joshua Chavez's exposé dated the 5th of May 2020. {4} Following Chavez's exposé, Doreen hastily removed all traces of the vision from her YouTube channel and website on the 9th of May. 

Doreen has now chosen to believe Chris Rosebrough's problematic interpretation of her vision that she had two separate but simultaneous experiences i.e. the vision was from the devil or a demon appearing as Jesus, and the epiphany was from the Lord. In my last post I pointed out that it is extremely unlikely that Jesus would permit a revelation from Himself to be simultaneously laced with demonic activity. In the scriptures, genuine revelations and visions from the Lord are uncontaminated by the devil or demons. As others have observed, Doreen's vision of Jesus excluded the marks of the crucifixion and was suspiciously akin to Roman Catholic Sacred Heart/Divine Mercy idolatry as opposed to any biblical sightings of Him after the resurrection. Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe. (John 20:27). {5}

John's vision of Jesus on Patmos:

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day.. Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength. (Revelation 1:1,12-16 cf. Revelation 1:10  cf. Revelation 4:2;,17:3, 21:10).

It is extraordinary that so many top level Calvinists who claim to be "biblical" do not question Chris Rosebrough's heretical beliefs and practices, including infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, consubstantiation, amillennialism, confession to a priest etc.

What kind of Christian witness does Doreen present to her former New Age followers?

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. (2 Peter 2:1-3).

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuLQKmVX1bs
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCAOhQbolas
3. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1409129675795006
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOuw0x-VXw0
5. https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2020/08/the-problems-with-doreen-virtues-vision.html

DOREEN VIRTUE'S VISION OF JESUS EXAMINED

Doreen on Instagram Live answering FAQ’s about her new book

27th July 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDfblhEk32E&t=120s

Former New Age teacher and top selling author Doreen Virtue's conversion to Christianity followed what she describes as "a vision of Jesus" on January 7th 2017 while she was attending an Episcopal Church. There are a number of troubling anomalies concerning Doreen's alleged vison. Unfortunately Doreen has recently removed all traces of the vision from her website and also from YouTube, leaving us with the difficulty of fact checking her recent statements. The only available source material I could find that has not been removed is a PDF of her book The Joy Of Jesus {1} 

Below is an account of Doreen's vision from The Joy Of Jesus published in 2018:

"And standing, or rather hovering, in front of me was Jesus himself. My eyes were open, and I was one-hundred percent sober. I’ve had spiritual visions throughout my life, but this was more real and all-encompassing. I wasn’t just seeing. I was in the experience. It’s difficult to put what happened into words, but I’ll try: His presence filled my entire eyesight. His arms were outstretched like he was inviting me to him as a “Welcome home” to a prodigal child. His facial features looked middle Eastern, with a brown tone, dark brown wavy shoulder-length hair, and brown eyes. And his heart! His heart was shining these rays of light in all directions, huge bright pulsating beams of light. I could ; 61 ; The Light That Saved Me feel the light beams affecting me, and at one point I felt pushed back in my chair. The light was both dazzling and dizzying. I felt so loved and happy, and yet a part of me was observing the experience and feeling confused. What did this mean? How could this be happening? Yet it was all so real! And Jesus was real! I’m sure my jaw was dropped because His presence completely floored me. I have no idea how long He was there.." The Joy Of Jesus  p 60-61 

Doreen has recently revised her conversion testimony and she now insists repeatedly that she was not converted until late 2017 after she had read the entire bible. However, this date does not withstand close scrutiny. In her book The Joy of Jesus she makes a number of statements that inextricably connect her conversion to the vision she received on the 7th of January:

"I had a life-changing vision of Jesus while at church on January 7, 2017. When I saw Jesus, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that everything written about him in the Bible was real and true. I also fell so deeply in love with Jesus, that I was willing to change my whole life to follow him." (p 9)

Doreen's vision is described in chapter ten of The Joy Of Jesus. This chapter is entitled The Light That Saved Me. (p 59)

"In my experience, it became clear that Jesus is the Son of God, part of the Holy Trinity. Remember that prior to this experience, I revered Jesus as an 'ascended master.' Yet in that moment of seeing him, I knew that Jesus is Lord." (p 61)

"I was now one-hundred percent following Jesus.. I fell head-over-heels in love with Jesus that day (the day of her vision). I was willing to do whatever it took to be with him.. The experience was beyond real. It was Him .. The fruits of my experience showed me that I genuinely saw a vision of Jesus of Nazareth. (p 62)

Doreen was baptized in the Episcopal Church on February 25th 2017 just over a month after her vision. Baptism is a puzzling step for a person who claims that she was not converted until much later that year. Doreen appears to be engaging in damage control by distancing herself from her vision and any connection it has to her conversion. (Proverbs 10:9).

 

Doreen claims to have had visions since she was a child, and in particular, she claims to have had visions of Jesus since she was a teenager. However, according to Doreen, this particular vision was different in that Jesus was "real".  Although I am not a cessationist, I am extremely wary of anyone who claims to have seen a vision or had an encounter of this kind. (John 20:29; Acts 1:11). Biblically visions of God are extremely rare, being limited to certain OT prophets (Isaiah 6:1; Ezekiel 1:1; 2), possibly the Apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 12:2-3) and John the Revelator. (Revelation 1:12-16). We do not see people being converted by visions in the scriptures. The Great Commission is the instruction given by the resurrected Jesus to his disciples to spread the gospel to all the nations of the world. (Matthew 28:16-20). Jesus words to Thomas: “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” (John 20:29 cf. Romans 10:17). 

During an interview with Justin Peters, Doreen seemed to agree with his rejection of her vision and accompanying epiphany as demonic. However, she has now decided that Lutheran Pastor Chris Rosebrough's explanation is the correct one.  

On July 17th 2020 Chris Rosebrough (Fighting For The Faith) explained to Doreen what he deduced had happened regarding the vision. Rosebrough explanation is that Doreen had two separate simultaneous events i.e. the vision was from the devil or a demon appearing as Jesus, and the epiphany was from the Lord. I find this a rather doubtful explanation in that Doreen claims that the vision and the epiphany were integral simultaneous events. Rosebrough has produced Isaiah 55:10-11 as a proof text for his explanation. 

The devil may indeed challenge or attempt to confuse some insight or revelation that we have received from the Lord after the event. However, it seems unlikely that Jesus would permit a revelation from Himself to be simultaneously laced with demonic activity. In the scriptures, genuine revelations and visions from the Lord are uncontaminated by the devil or demons. As others have observed, Doreen's vision of Jesus excluded the marks of the crucifixion and was suspiciously akin to Roman Catholic Sacred Heart/Divine Mercy idolatry as opposed to any biblical sightings of Him after the resurrection. Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe. (John 20:27).

Doreen Virtue Canvas Print
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/477240891755981773/

John's vision of Jesus on Patmos:

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day.. Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength. (Revelation 1:1,12-16 cf. Revelation 1:10  cf. Revelation 4:2;,17:3, 21:10).

Doreen's misplaced confidence in Chris Rosebrough and Justin Peters 

Doreen says that some "solid teachers" came alongside her, and (amongst others) she names Justin Peters and Chris Rosebrough. As nice as Justin Peters is, I consider him to be deceived by the perverted doctrines of Calvinism. I have previously outlined the considerable heresies held by Lutheran pastor Chris Rosebrough including ~ infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, consubstantiation, amillennialism, confession to a priest etc. {2} Rosebrough also subscribes to the false Calvinist doctrines of predestination and cessationism. The doctrine of cessationism (the denial of the gifts of the Holy Spirit) was formulated within Calvinism during the Reformation as a reaction against Roman Catholic miracles. With the exception of Calvinism, continuationism generally remained the default doctrine within Protestantism. (Proverbs 30:5-6). For Doreen to regard Chris Rosebrough and Justin Peters "solid teachers" is in itself an indication of her unstable spiritual condition. 

Doreen has reversed her previous role as a prominent teacher of the New Age and has now become a prominent adversary of the New Age. However this self-appointed role within the Body of Christ is discharged minus her husband who is conspicuous by his absence. The New Testament model is for the husband and wife to serve the Lord together. (Genesis 2:18; Acts 18:26). Doreen assures us that she does not teach theology. However, having listened to her recent material and having read parts of her new book, this is not the case. Her role as a writer/broadcaster frequently bleeds into interpreting the scriptures, albeit that she is not teaching mixed congregations and does not have authority over men. (1 Timothy 2:12 cf. James 3:1). Not long after her conversion, Doreen assumed the role of an expert spiritual adviser, whereas in reality nothing was further from the truth:

The synopsis on the back cover of The Joy Of Jesus reads: "You’ll read about ways to combat spiritual warfare, how to discern whether spirits are from God or not, the scriptural teachings about angels, healing from guilt, and much more." {3} 

After Doreen was challenged by a friend about the errors contained within The Joy of Jesus, it was withdrawn. In her own words: "I wrote this book called The Joy of Jesus.. I included things in there that I now know could cause some to stumble.. I took it down just because it wasn't right."  

Should certain Christian "mentors" continue to indulge Doreen and cut her some slack because she is a relatively new believer? Doreen squeals that she is "a baby Christian" when her errors are found out. However after three years, this excuse begins to wear rather thin. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3). It is unscriptural for someone so immature in the faith and so deeply confused to be churning out "Christian" material which has to be either withdrawn or fundamentally altered at a later date. By default a confused "baby Christian" is disqualified from interpreting the scriptures and teaching, even in a limited capacity. (1 Timothy 3:6). In essence Doreen has adopted an antinomian New Age "do your own thing" attitude to her present situation rather than following the scriptures.

It is inconceivable for any true Christian to knowingly peddle faulty material that will be a stumbling block to the Body of Christ. However, that is precisely what Doreen has done. Doreen allowed her publication Deceived No More to proceed with the offending vision because its withdrawal would have caused problems with her publishers Thomas Nelson. And so the first edition of the book was published on the July 28th 2020 complete with Jesus vision. For such a book to be published after Doreen realized that her vision was highly suspect is appalling. Even though Deceived No More was at a late stage of publication, Doreen had a window of opportunity in which to withdraw the book. Almost immediately after the book was published, Doreen rapidly amended Chapter 9. {4} However, the original book remains in circulation. This book should have been withdrawn immediately the questionable nature of her vision was discovered no matter what the cost or inconvenience. Doreen's frequent apologies and prevarications on this subject cut no ice. {5}

To obey is better than sacrifice.. (1 Samuel 15:22 cf. Jeremiah 7:23; Acts 5:32).

Doreen seems to have an answer for everything: "I know all about the apostle Paul going away for three years, I know all about how he stayed away before teaching. I got it..  BUT I....."  If Doreen is not prepared to submit to the scriptures, then she will have a very difficult time as a Christian and she risks a great deal!  (1 Samuel 15:9; Revelation 3:19).

Doreen employs various illegitimate strategies and reverts to worldly tactics in an attempt to dissuade her detractors from exposing her errors. (Romans 8:5).

Such strategies include labelling her critics "gossips" "slanderers" and "haters".  Doreen: "Its been a rough season with a lot of slander and accusations coming against me .. its been hurtful for me too and  to hear people gossiping behind my back.. its been a lot of hate."  On a video with Engage Truth she says: "Don't gossip about me, don't slander me, come tell me that I'm not supposed to do this or that." {6} This would be to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted! It is well known that I am no supporter of either Jacob Prasch or Joshua Chavez. However, having listened carefully to Chavez's video Apostasy Report - Doreen Virtue Is Still Deceived, I cannot find anything to disagree with, although I cannot judge his motives. {7}    

Doreen can't expect to brush her various public errors and contradictions under the carpet and escape the repercussions. Biblically, public errors should be addressed in the open since their harmful effects are likely to have negatively impacted vulnerable members of the Body of Christ. On the other hand, personal private sins against individuals should (initially) be tackled privately: If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.. (Matthew 18:15)  It should be noted that Paul openly denounced certain false teachers by name. (1 Timothy 1:19-20; 2 Timothy 4:14; 3 John 1:9-10 etc.) Paul was no gossip, the gospel was at stake! Apparently Doreen expects the Christian community to make her an exception to the rule because she is "a baby Christian". (2 Corinthians 13:10). 

Another strategy Doreen employs to silence her detractors is to threaten them with lawsuits. "God told me that I am finally going to start initiating lawsuits.. and to defamation and libel and slander, and I am going to win. Everyone who has got these videos about me and blogs about me that they are making money off, my lawyers are going to go after them and it is just righteous anger.." {7} This is utter nonsense. (1 Corinthians 6:7; Matthew 5:39).

I also hope that Doreen now understands the principle of Fair Use now that it has been fully explained to her. "Fair use is a doctrine in the law of the United States that permits limited use of copyrighted material without having to first acquire permission from the copyright holder."  {8}

In her own words Doreen says: "I am kind of a goofball anyway without a filter, so I have embarrassed myself more times than I can even count." The dictionary definition of goofball is a naïve or stupid person. (Matthew 15:18; Proverbs 4:5-6). 

The blunders that Doreen continues to make whilst at the same time claiming that she is "no longer deceived" are potentially lethal to the body of Christ. Not only that, these blunders leave both her and her mentors open to public ridicule as we have recently witnessed. Doreen seems to be repenting every five minutes for avoidable errors that would not have occurred if she had followed the scriptural pattern for new believers. Yes ~ there is forgiveness for our sins, and yes ~ we all make mistakes. However, there is also a place for godly rebuke. (Titus 1:9). The proper course of action for a godly mentor would be to counsel Doreen to stand down from the public domain until such time as she becomes mature in the faith. Instead however, various pastors and teachers are only too happy to promote Doreen by appearing on her videos. These teachers are culpable for the mess that has arisen from Doreen's vision and other issues. 

In conclusion, several things about Doreen's conversion testimony and her subsequent actions are unscriptural. If Doreen is a genuine Christian, then I believe that the Lord will put severe obstacles in her way if she persists in churning out false material. (Hebrews 12:6). Any reputation that Doreen may have gained amongst the true Body of Christ will be in tatters, if it is not already. 

Ironically, the most staggering thing Doreen says at the end of this video is that she has turned off the comments on her YouTube page because peoples responses could cause a stumbling block that might lead to some false teachings!! 😮 

And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. (Ephesians 4:11-14).

Doreen Virtue's Jesus Lights Healing Meditation 

https://www.facebook.com/DoreenVirtueForJesus/videos/1409129675795006/

1. file:///C:/Users/treen/Downloads/The%20Joy%20Of%20Jesus%20by%20Doreen%20Virtue%20(z-lib.org).pdf

2. https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2020/07/chris-rosebrough-fighting-for-faith.html  3. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Joy-Jesus-Doreen-Virtue/dp/0692125965
4. https://doreenvirtue.com/2020/07/22/free-updated-chapter-9-of-deceived-no-more/
5. https://doreenvirtue.com/2020/06/01/why-did-doreen-remove-her-testimony/
6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkD-_BVL-2M

7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjRXaGltHLI&t=1487s
9. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#:~:text=Fair%20use%20is%20a%20doctrine,permission%20from%20the%20copyright%20holder.

SCOTT PRUITT NOPRETRIB: ANOTHER WILLFULLY IGNORANT JACOB PRASCH FOLLOWER

If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame. (Proverbs 18:13).

Scott Pruitt NOPRETRIB is yet another willfully ignorant Praschite. His recent knee jerk reaction regarding Jacob Prasch's teaching about the Metatron lacked any research whatsoever. {1} I have provided Pruitt with unequivocal evidence that Prasch refers to the Metatron as Jesus Christ and I have asked him to correct his error. So far he has refused point blank to do so. As a result, Pruitt gives a completely false impression of what Prasch teaches in this regard. The whole object of running an apologetics ministry is TRUTH, but this fact seems to have escaped Scott Pruitt! Very sadly, Pruitt, in common with other Prasch cult followers, has morphed into a false witness (Exodus 23:1; Proverbs 14:5, 19:5). Pruitt has made all kinds of false insinuations about myself and others, and frustratingly he has not given me the right of reply on his website. As a result I am obliged to correct him here and to put the record straight.

The discussion was initiated on NOPRETRIB by Christopher S Brownwell on the 4th of August:

Pruitt then reverted to Messenger and attempted to speak to me directly after I had already refused to have a verbal conversation with him. When I refused again he messaged the following:

Finally I sent Pruitt the following email this morning:

Dear Scott

Regarding your points on messenger: 

To clarify - I have not been closely involved with any of Prasch's detractors apart from Pat and Mike who are friends of mine. I have occasionally communicated with Deborah Menelaws, but I have not found these conversations to be of any value.  When I say I have distanced myself, I mean that I no longer share tbck's videos, and also that I have ended my acquaintance with Deborah. Frank's videos are not inaccurate. There are no background noises on any of his other videos apart from the one I shared with you, and I put that down to some kind of interference rather than anything deliberate. I have found him to be very honest and he has rectified any errors he has made.

Eitan Bar and JP do not utilize the Metatron material in the same way at all.. I have previously explained all this and I see little point in repeating it again.

You have implied that I am trying to hide the fact that my issues with Prasch are historical. My intra-seal critique and other exposures of Prasch as a false teacher are well recorded and are by no means a secret! We are discussing the Metatron on this occasion, not his other various false teachings.

My unwillingness to have a phone conversation with you is not out of fear (another assumption). Written conversations have the advantage of accuracy in that I am able to refer back to them regarding the precise details of exactly what is being discussed. I do not know you, and certainly your inferences about me to my face, and also your remarks to Colin privately, are not indicative of a friendly or fair exchange. Another reason I prefer written conversations is because it gives me time to think about my responses to what is being discussed. I have had too many meetings with false teachers and others who have attempted to back foot me. I believe that it is a wise decision not give anyone else that opportunity. 

I have posted two comments on your website which you have chosen not to approve. I have provided unequivocal evidence of what Prasch teaches about the Metatron and you have not given me the right of reply. 

I suggest that you drop all these side issues and insinuations and concentrate your attention to the main point.  You have misrepresented Prasch's teaching on the Metatron on your website and this needs to be corrected. 

If you do not do this then I will do so. 

Regards

Treena

The evidence I sent to Pruitt was Frank Rogers video below, and also an excerpt from Moriel's 2007 article in Afrikaans translated into English which is unequivocal in identifying the Metatron as Jesus. This is not an Acts 17:22-23 apologetic to an "unknown god" as Prasch has recently claimed, rather it is a devious attempt to substitute Jesus Christ with a named mythical Jewish figure. (Titus 1:14). Pruitt has point blank refused to post this evidence on his website.

https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2020/07/jacob-prasch-metatron-in-place-of-jesus.html

There is further evidence available if Pruitt would care to do his own research. Below: September 2009 * Moriel Quarterly 15. Prasch states: "Jacob wrestled with the Metatron, God in a human form."

Prasch's ancestry is yet another point of contention for Pruitt. Once again I advise him to do his own research since he obviously does not trust the evidence brought by others.

1. https://nopretrib.com/good-fight-ministries-responds-to-paul-wilkinson/

JESUS ARMY REPORT: DISGRACEFUL COVER UP OF ABUSE BY CHURCH LEADERS

Jesus Army abuse 'covered-up by church leaders', report claims

By Jon IronmongerBBC News
Abuse of women and children was covered-up by senior members of a disgraced religious sect, according to a report leaked to the BBC.

All five surviving leaders of the now-defunct Jesus Army were found to have colluded with sexual offenders through their handling of complaints.

A report into sexual abuse within the Jesus Army criticised the actions of, left to right, Mike Farrant, Huw Lewis, Ian Callard, John Campbell and Mick Haines

The report followed an inquiry commissioned by the church in 2017.

The Jesus Fellowship Church Trust (JFCT) declined to comment when approached by the BBC.

Last year it apologised to anyone 'who experienced harm in the past' and urged victims to contact police.

The Jesus Army was a cult-like religious movement that sprang up in Northamptonshire in the 1970s and established a sprawling community of houses.

Last year it dissolved after the BBC revealed hundreds of former members were seeking damages for alleged sexual, physical and psychological abuse.

Ten people from the church have been convicted of sex offences.

The new report focused on the actions of the so-called Apostolic Group of senior church leaders over the past two decades.

While the report did not identify the men, the BBC can name them as Ian Callard, John Campbell, Mike Farrant, Mick Haines and Huw Lewis.

Mr Haines became the sect's principle leader after the death of its founder Noel Stanton in 2009.

In the summary of her 800-page final report, independent investigator Vicki Lawson-Brown said all five leaders 'must take responsibility for their inaction'.

She said women were treated as 'domestic servants', which placed them and children at higher risk of abuse.

There was a culture of 'blaming victims' and 'reinstating disgraced leaders', her review found.

Describing one 'significant case', she said all of the men, by their failure to act, protected a convicted paedophile who had been allowed to continue in his role as an elder by Mr Stanton.

In spite of further complaints against the man, he 'remained a risk within a community household until 2016 when social services threatened to take action'.

The report recommended further investigations into a number of other areas, including sexual, spiritual and financial abuse, as well the 'inappropriate punishment' of children.

The Jesus Army, or Jesus Fellowship as it was formally known, was an ultra-evangelical sect, founded in a small chapel in the Northamptonshire village of Bugbrooke in 1969.

It attracted thousands of members, from homeless drug addicts to devout Christian families, many of whom lived together in close-knit, rural communes.

Members were put to work on the church's farms or businesses and forced to hand over money and possessions.

Surviving members have described an intense, bullying regime, in which children were severely disciplined and forced to sit through long worship sessions involving speaking in tongues and exorcisms.

In 2019 the BBC exposed allegations of abuse on a 'prolific scale' including rapes, 'brainwashing' and the brutal or sexualised beating of young children by groups of men.

Forty-three people who were active in the Church have been named as alleged perpetrators, including founder and firebrand, Noel Stanton.

After his death in 2009, the Church handed 'disclosures' of sexual offences against Mr Stanton and others to police.

In 2017 the five senior leaders known as the Apostolic Group were asked to step down, pending an inquiry into the cover-up of abuse allegations.

The BBC has spoken to more than 25 former members of the Jesus Army who claimed to have experienced abuse within community houses. Many said their complaints to leadership were ignored.

One woman, who asked not to be named, said Mr Farrant, who was known as 'Rockfast,' ignored her claims in 2006 that an active church elder had sexually assaulted children in the 1980s.

Mr Campbell, known as 'Perceptive', was the church's official spokesman, its head of safeguarding and the elder of Festal Grange in Pattishall.

The BBC can reveal that a gardener who stayed at the Grange was a convicted paedophile and went on to sexually assault three boys in the cellar over a seven-year period.

Neither Mr Farrant nor Mr Campbell replied to our request for comment on the allegations.

Although the Jesus Army has closed, its scattered congregations have formed small, independent churches. About 180 people still live in communal houses.

Over the past year the JFCT has been disposing of properties and assets totalling tens of millions of pounds.

It is expected some of the funds raised will be used to compensate victims.

Chairman of the Jesus Fellowship Survivors Association, which represents about 800 alleged victims, Erin Woodger, said compensation would help but would not 'repair or make up for the abuse these people have suffered'.

He said many had nightmares and could not work.

'It was living in that regime, being controlled, being beaten, being demeaned on a daily basis, and having no terms of reference, that has been most profoundly damaging,' he said.

Mr Woodger said following the revelation of the abuse allegations the church suffered 'huge financial damage' with the loss of hundreds of thousands of pounds in charitable donations.

He said the BBC's coverage 'helped to bring out the truth, but they're still trying to cover it up, and make out things weren't that bad'.

All five members of the Apostolic Group were interviewed under caution by Northamptonshire Police last year.

The force said it had 'identified concerns around poor leadership and a lack of understanding of safeguarding'.

However, no evidence was found of criminal offences.

None of the men replied to the BBC's approaches for comment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-53450901?CMP=share_btn_me&fbclid=IwAR3NEQDxy0zcjfnczSQ9w4_h0_bRgY_hD3XTnv0JPtWBRNQTJ1ttJihSbcI