Got Questions definition of unconditional election: "God, before the foundation of the world, chose to make certain individuals the objects of His unmerited favor or special grace. These individuals from every tribe, tongue and nation were chosen by God for adoption, not because of anything they would do but because of His sovereign will. God could have chosen to save all men (He certainly has the power and authority to do so), and He could have chosen to save no one (He is under no obligation to save anyone). He instead chose to save some and leave others to the consequences of their sin."1
James White's theological debates include Calvinism, Roman Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism, infant baptism, the King James Only movement, Jehovah's Witnesses, and atheism. White has described Leighton Flowers as a "one-string banjo" referring to what he describes as his "obsessive" mission against Calvinism. Flowers attempted to make the debate more light-hearted by giving White a gift of a one-string banjo. However, at the end of the debate, White refused to accept it. White's "one string banjo" quip was doubtless thrown out as an insult, but Flowers apparent approval of other false doctrines is odd. For my part, I am unable to reconcile Flowers hyper-focused fight for truth in one aspect (Calvinism), and his apparent approval of error in another (ecumenism). (Acts 20:27). I was so troubled by this disconnect in 2018 that I have not paid him much attention since that time.
Below is an excerpt from my previous post in 2018:
"One would expect Flowers to have a bible verse on the 'Our Beliefs' page of his website, but his primary text is a quotation from AW Tozer! In fact there are many scripture references, but no actual bible quotations on this page at all.
I notice that Flowers also frequently quotes CS Lewis in his videos. Both CS Lewis and AW Tozer were ecumenists and closet mystics. As I look down the list of non-Calvinistic scholars Flowers lists as reading material, I am very troubled indeed. For example, he lists false teachers such as ecumenist Billy Graham, false deliverance teacher Derek Prince, ecumenist Greg Laurie, open theist and annihilationist Clark Pinnock, ecumenist Ravi Zacharias, ecumenist David Jeremiah.. I could go on.. and on... This tells me that Calvinism is not the only serious problem that needs to be addressed within the Southern Baptist denomination. The ecumenical movement is THE biggest threat to biblical Christianity in our time, and yet inexplicably, Flowers actively promotes ecumenical teachers and apostates on his website!"2
The Debate
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— (John 6:37-45).
White: "Has the historical understanding of John chapter 6 since the Reformation.. is that a proper reading of the text?" This opening question was very telling in that it indicates that White's presuppositions are inhibited by his Calvinistic tradition.
White opened by emphasizing that there is no break or contradiction in verse 44 i.e. the group drawn by the Father is the same group that is raised up on the last day, namely the Jews who had been drawn by the Father via the prophets. Based on his understanding of John 6:44, White's view is that no distinction exists between the (passive recipients ?) being drawn by the Father, those being taught, those hearing and those learning in verse 45.
Flowers opened by identifying God as the initiator and the hearers as the responders. His position is that the Jewish crowd in John 5:43 rejected God due to their own fault because they were unwilling. (31:00 mark) In contrast, White's presupposition from Calvin (originally Augustine) is that sinful people reject God by default. Flowers also quoted Calvinist John MacArthur: "Sinful man is pre-programmed by God to believe lies." Flowers appealed to various proof texts as evidence that the Jewish crowd was responsible for responding to Jesus.
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, John 1:12 .. cf. Ezekiel 18:32
For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’ (Acts 28:27).
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37 cf. Isaiah 30:15).
Flowers: "Notice this hardened condition of Israel is not a universal default condition of all humanity from birth. It is a purposeful divine judicial judgement upon a rebellious people at a particular place in time to bring about Calvary through their rebellion.." (Luke 19:41-42; John 12:39). This also explains why Jesus spoke in parables to the crowds. (Mark 4:34). Flowers also referred to Romans 11: ..as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.” (Romans 11:8). As a result of their rebellion, the Jews were ..ever seeing but never perceiving. (Mark 4:12).
Flowers: "There is only one point of distinction.. why does God give certain people to the Son?" He continued.. "those who believed in the Father are given to the Son". Calvinism reverses the stated order given in the text i.e. regeneration precedes belief. From the Calvinist perspective draw = regeneration, whereas draw is given a different definition in the text.. i.e. those drawn are those who have heard and learned = those who have responded.
Flowers position on John 6:44 ~ The Jewish crowd is not given to Christ because of their continued refusal to believe all that the Father has taught them (through Moses and the prophets).
White's position on John 6:44 ~ The Jewish crowd is unable to believe by default because they are not given to Christ.
Ex-Calvinist Bible Scholar Reviews James White Vs. Leighton Flowers Debate: John 6:44
The subsequent review of this debate by Biblical Studies expert Dr Joel Korytko, although rather technical, is significant. In it, he identifies various critical weaknesses in White's arguments. White's smoke and mirrors strategy i.e. his technical knowledge of Greek grammar was a tactic that ultimately backfired. It became apparent during Korytko's review that White's frequent references to Greek grammar were not only superfluous and misleading, but were even incorrect at times. Korytko asserted that White's detailed information about aorist present participles in John is not remotely related to the debate and was an unnecessary distraction. In addition, Korytko pointed out that John 6:44-45 does not give evidence of volition.
The Old Testament background to John 6:45 - the Prophets
It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— (John 6:45).
Then all your sons will be taught by the LORD.. (Isaiah 54:13 cf. Joel 3:1-2; Jeremiah 31:4; John 2:20). Isaiah 54:13 is an eschatological prophecy referring to Israel's ultimate salvation in their post-conversion state. (Zechariah 12:10). John 6:45 omits "all your sons" and simultaneously refers to the eschatological prophecy as a present reality (inaugurated eschatology) via the new covenant. This verse presupposes the willingness of present believers, as well as the future inhabitants of the New Jerusalem, to be taught by the Lord. Biblia: "Essentially the same promise is given in Joel 3:1-2, and Jeremiah 31:34; and represented in 1 John 2:20 ('Ye have the anointing of the Holy One, and know all things') as already fulfilled."3
The LORD appeared to us in the past, saying: “I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving devotion. (Jeremiah 31:3 - Berean Standard Version).
The ESV does not convey the meaning of draw in Jeremiah 31:3. However, several other versions translate the equivalent of the NT word elkusō (draw) Hebrew mashak. Jeremiah 31 sets the stage for the new covenant and the ultimate regathering of Israel. Critically Jeremiah 31:3 powerfully illustrates that the sense of mashak/elkusō (draw) is to lovingly persuade. There is no indication of irresistible grace aka effectual calling in this verse.
Bengel's Gnomen: The same word occurs in the Septuag., Song of Solomon 1:4, εἵλκυσάν σε, [Engl. Vers.] “Draw me, we will run after Thee;” Jeremiah 31:3, “I have loved thee with an everlasting love, therefore with loving-kindness have I drawn thee” [in Septuag. ch. 38:3, εἵλκυσά σε εἰς οἰκτείρημα]. 4
pantes and pas
'And they will all (pantes) be taught by God.’ Everyone (pas) who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me— (John 6:45).
Flowers seemed to get rather flustered by White's use of pantes (all) and pas (everyone) (1:38 mark). Flowers has now modified his view and he accepts that all and everyone are in fact the same group. Few teachers are humble enough to publicly admit their errors, and we should give Flowers credit for his subsequent U-turn. Korytko effectively simplified this misunderstanding by appealing to the eschatological reality of John, i.e. everyone taught by God is the same group who have heard and learned from the Father and come to Jesus.
heard and learned
Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me. (John 6:45).
Other parts of the New Testament emphasize how we hear (active) indicating volition, or whether people have ears to hear. The formula "He who has ears to hear" (Matthew 13:9; Mark 4:9 etc.) suggests more than ordinary powers of thought to comprehend.5
Take care then how you hear (akouete), for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away. (Luke 8:18).
And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen (akouete) to him!” (Luke 9:35 cf. Luke 9:44; Deuteronomy 32:46-47; Proverbs 2:2-5).
For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them. (Matthew 13:15).
Thayers Greek Lexicon: "The Johannean phrase ἀκούειν παρά τοῦ Θεοῦ, or τί παρά Θεοῦ, signifies a. to perceive in the soul the inward communication of God: John 6:45."6
Thayers Greek Lexicon: "The Johannean phrase ἀκούειν παρά τοῦ Θεοῦ, or τί παρά Θεοῦ, signifies a. to perceive in the soul the inward communication of God: John 6:45."6
Rightly handling the word of truth
White claims that taking verses 44 and 45 out of order in John 6 is inconsistent: "He (Flowers) begins at verse 45, assigns it a meaning, and then reads it back into the text, skipping over everything that comes previously".
Korytko: "Verse 45 is the support for the previous statement.. this phrase is almost parallel to the previous one, they're supposed to interpret each other. Reading backwards is fine here because they are mutually interpreting each other.7
White makes a similar argument regarding comparisons between John 6:44 and John 12:32.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:44).
And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself. (John 12:32).
White's hermeneutic of John is based on a rigid chronological verse-by-verse interpretation of the book in its historical context. While linear methodologies are useful in interpreting other passages of scripture, John has profound layers of meaning that simply do not lend themselves to this strategy. So when White claims that it is inconsistent to "jump six chapters into the future to a completely different context" from Jesus' Jewish audience in chapter 6 to all (Jews and Greeks) in chapter 12, he ignores the circular nature of John's narrative and he misses the forest for the trees. (2 Timothy 2:15). Korytko: "In John, he is teaching a theology from the time of the present.. it is interacting with some of the things that Jesus said and also John's own spin on things." (48:00 mark).
White's comparison with John 6:39-40 does not prove irresistible grace (TULIP) and is equally problematic regarding volition: And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day. For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”
The main focus for Calvinists is the verb "draw" (helkó) = I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.8 Clearly, no one can be saved unless the Father draws them, but as we have seen from the Old Testament background, White's view that believers are compelled to respond to God's drawing is to make the false assumption that helkó invariably means to irresistibly drag. White's removal of the necessity for a response eliminates free will and human cooperation. The other passage where helkó is used in a moral sense is in John 12:32, where all people are the object of the sentence. Since universalism is not an option, the context of helkó determines its meaning.
Cambridge Bible: "There are two Greek words for ‘draw’ in the N.T., one of which necessarily implies violence, the other does not: it is the latter that is used here and in John 6:44; the former (suró) is used Acts 14:19; Acts 17:6. Man’s will is free; he can refuse to be drawn: and there is no violence; the attraction is moral. We see from John 6:44 that before the ‘lifting up’ it is the Father who draws men to the Son."9
Ellicott: "The word 'draw' need not perplex us; and all the theories opposed to the width of divine love and influence, and to the freedom of human will and action, which have been built upon it, are at once seen to be without support, when we remember that the only other passage in the New Testament where it occurs in a moral sense is in the declaration: 'And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me'" (John 12:32).10
“That this ‘drawing’ is not irresistible grace, is confessed even by Augustine himself, the great upholder of the doctrines of grace. ‘If a man is drawn, says an objector, he comes against his will. (We answer) if he comes unwillingly, he does not believe: if he does not believe, he does not come. For we do not run to Christ on our feet, but by faith; not with the movement of the body, but with the free will of the heart…Think not that thou are drawn against thy will; the mind can be drawn by love.’” (Alford)
Expositors Greek Testament: "But whether it is also true that everyone whom God teaches comes is not here stated; the καὶ μαθὼν introduces a doubtful element. [Wetstein quotes from Polybius διαφέρει τὸ μαθεῖν τοῦ μόνον ἀκοῦσαι.]"11
Both Flowers and White agreed that drawing is the teaching, or as White put it, "communicating facts and data". Flowers added, "the gospel is the power of God unto salvation". I would not isolate teaching as the single element required for salvation. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God.. (Ephesians 2:8).
Matthew Poole: "..unless it be illuminated and drawn by the Spirit of God. No soul is able of itself to discern spiritual things.."12
One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. (Acts 16:14).
I am not implying that Lydia was compelled to respond, as Calvinists assert, but without the Lord's direct intervention in opening Lydia's heart, she would not have been converted.
The evidence summarized
The circular style of the gospel John does not necessitate a rigid verse by verse interpretation: James White says We Can't Read Backwards (youtube.com)
Several New Testament passages talk about everyone responding to the gospel.
The Greek grammar is not relevant to the debate: James White uses Greek (youtube.com)
helkó (draw) is not compulsive.
hearing and learning are not passive verbs in this context. James White Thinks Hearing and Learning are Passive (youtube.com)
John 6:44-45 does not demonstrate volition.
2. WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING: FALSE PROPHETS AND BIBLE TEACHERS IN THE LAST DAYS: THE COMPROMISE OF LEIGHTON FLOWERS! SOTERIOLOGY 101 (bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com)
3. Exegetical and Hermeneutical Commentary of Isaiah 54:13 – Bible Commentary (biblia.work)
4. John 6 Bengel's Gnomon of the New Testament (biblehub.com)
5. Matthew 11:15 Commentaries: "He who has ears to hear, let him hear. (biblehub.com)
6. Strong's Greek: 191. ἀκούω (akouó) -- to hear, listen (biblehub.com)
7. Ex-Calvinist Bible Scholar Reviews James White Vs. Leighton Flowers Debate: John 6:44 (youtube.com)
8. Strong's Greek: 1670. ἑλκύω (helkó) -- to drag (biblehub.com)
9. John 12 Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges (biblehub.com)
10. John 6:44 Commentaries: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. (biblehub.com)
11. John 6:45 Commentaries: "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. (biblehub.com)
12. Jeremiah 31:3 Commentaries: The LORD appeared to him from afar, saying, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; Therefore I have drawn you with lovingkindness. (biblehub.com)
Further Links
