JOHN HALLER FELLOWSHIP BIBLE CHAPEL: PRASCH SPIN!

Below: an excerpt from a badly spelled text from John Haller regarding Joe Schimmel's appearance on GODTV.

As suspected, John Haller's relationship with the truth has been proved to be extremely wanting. Haller's animosity towards Tim Wirth is unmissable below, and his comment about Tim's "bad research" is totally false. Those associated with Fellowship Bible Chapel should be aware that Haller deals in half truths and is merely a spin doctor for false teacher and fake Jew Jacob Prasch (Moriel Ministries).

John Haller:

Here is what happened and someone with half a brain that is not interested in promoting himself would realize.
Prophecy in the New had a conference in 2016 at which Paul Maguire did a number of interviews. For example, here is a screen shot of Tommy Ice.
that is the set that PITN used at that conference
GOD TV was not even there
The video was somehow given or sold by PITN or Paul Maguire to GOD TV. I suspect it was PITN as they have beenn having severe financial problems
The GOD TV logo was added TWO YEARS LATER!!
He did not do a video for GOD TV
TIm is grossly misinformed
It is clear that the God TV logo was added later
These videos just magically appeared on GOD TV
Tim needs to remove his posts on the subject or I will expose what is, at best, bad research
Do you thin Tonmy Ice endorses GOD TV
Give me a break
Go to this page: youtube.com/user/GodTV/search?query=apocalypse
All of those videos come form the 2016 Pikes Peak Prophecy Conference
Are we to believe that all of those guys endorse GOD TV
Why did Tim pick Joe out of that lineup
His motives are self serving
All of those videos from two years ago appeared on GOD TV two months ago,. WHy?
If you knew, you would know that PITN is in desparate financial shape. They are selling stuff to GOD TV to make some money
I guarantee it
I know most of those guys in those videos. NOT ONE OF THEM, NOT ONE endorses GOD TV
The way to deal with this would be for me to message tim but since he has blocked me I cannot
So, if it is still there tomorrow, I'll deal with it and it will be pretty public and direct
Is that understood?
I will not tolerate a good guy like Joe Schimmel being slandered like this.
I'll check the page in the morning
But I'm sending all of this to Bob Mitchell tonight before I go to bed
So please copy this and send it to Tim
It is obvious that he is wrong which is why I deleted his original poist.

Chat Conversation End {1}

Good Fight Ministries:

It was also brought to our attention that John Haller attempted to defend Joe’s appearance on the show by explaining that we were ignorant of what network the interviews were going to be aired on. While we understand why John might come to this conclusion (considering it took almost 3 years to make Joe’s interviews available, while all the other speaker’s interviews showed up much, much sooner), that was only partially correct. John wasn’t being dishonest, but he simply didn’t have all of the facts. The temporary studio was put together at the conference in order to interview all of the participants. Joe was not very familiar with GodTV at the time, having never seen it and was not aware of the host’s associations (specifically, Rick Joyner). {2}

1. https://vimeo.com/360095057?ref=em-v-share

2. https://www.leftbehindorledastray.com/why-would-joe-schimmel-go-on-godtv/

So, was David Lister a minister who was addicted to heroin? ~ Tim Wirth

Posted on September 23, 2019 by Mike and Pat Rogers Closingstages

Thanks Tim for sharing this, our prayers are with you and for those still on the fence.
Blessings

Notice on this video about David Lister https://youtu.be/rsl–c0bifM (this link no longer works as the video was removed shortly after this was posted) where Lister states that he was a minister and after already being on the radio and taking on Brownsville/Toronto whenever he then met Jimmy Prasch. Well, take note that Lister, later on, states that Prasch helped him out of being addicted to heroin. What?? So, was Lister a minister who was addicted to heroin? In my last conversation with David Lister, he stated to me that he would “Do whatever it takes to  protect this ministry”. Lister is the guy behind the scenes that goes around sweeping up after Prasch has made a mess of things. Lister also isolates Prasch from most of the negative things that come into Moriel. Listers nickname is “The Politician”. And he is a pathological liar. David Lister in 2017 made 87,100 based on a 35-hour workweek. And that does not include his housing allowance and all travel and food paid for. So that’s a pretty sweet deal. It’s a real shame that Jackie Alnor was sworn to silence about David Lister’s fellowship shutting down because Lister plagiarized Warren Wiersbe and others. If that’s not cult-like what is? Plagiarism is no big deal to Moriel anyway seeing that Prasch makes no citations whatsoever in books allowing him to make things up or borrow from others. Lister continues to bear false witness against me to my friends and tries to drive wedges, but Haller has done this as well so …That’s what cults do. I am speaking up now not to address the lies that have been stated publicly about me by guys like Josh Chav but I just got tired of the spiritual bullying. Will this change the minds of most of the people following Moriel? Probably not because they have chosen to believe lies. A very scary place to be in the end times indeed. I hope to help people sitting on the fence. Just a side note. Prasch has spread it all around that Lister worked for Elvis… Funny thing because my mentor and friend the late great Hal Blaine used to play the drums for Elvis and he never heard of Lister. Did Lister have a different name at that time? I have no idea. So, I watched the Memphis mob documentary on Elvis’s small circle on the inside. And there was actually a guy who kinda looked like Lister. It was not Lister but I can see where the strange mind of Prasch may have constructed his story from. These guys need prayer folks lets never forget that. But the spiritual bullying and the abuse that Moriel does to the Body of Christ needs to stop. If Jackie Alnor refuses to step up that’s her privilege. But I cannot be silent anymore for the sake of others.

Blessings -Tim

PS follow the money on these guys that's where the real story is

To further understand how much of a cult Moriel is you need to read this article. I hope it opens peoples eyes. Cults can permanently damage people like I believe it did to Jacob
https://culteducation.com/group/1210-church-of-bible-understanding/21585-ex-members-tell-of-poverty-powerlessness.html

DownloadOriginal fileH.264 (MP4)THEORA (OGG) 0:00 / 9:34 HD

JOHN HALLER AND JACOB PRASCH: THE RAPTURE QUESTION

Two prewrath rapture teachers will be speaking at the 2019 Columbus Bible Prophecy Conference hosted by Fellowship Bible Chapel between the 11-13th of October. Alan Kurschner (Eschatos Ministries), and Charles Cooper (founder and director of the Prewrath Resource Institute of Orlando). {1} This is (hopefully?) a definite step in the right direction for John Haller (pastor/elder of FBC), who has been very thick with Jacob Prasch (Moriel Ministries) in the past. Does this latest development signify cooling off in the relationship between Haller and Prasch, or will there be a further attempt to promote Prasch's rapture theory as a plausible variation of prewrath just prior to the Columbus Conference? Prasch was a speaker at FBC as recently as March of this year, and Haller will be a speaker at Moriel's Canadian Conference on the 4th and 5th of October.

The prewrath rapture position was developed by Robert Van Kampen during the 1970's. I am at a loss to understand why Jacob Prasch is in denial about this fact. Prasch gives all the credit for prewrath to those who cannot legitimately take the credit for it i.e. Tregelles (misspelled "Tregellas/Tregallis") and CS Lovett. {2} In fact, Tregelles was post-tribulational and had nothing whatsoever to do with the development of prewrath. Lovett's version of prewrath differs significantly from the prewrath position as we know it today. Lovett extended the tribulation to the entirety of the 70th week of Daniel and put the rapture at the end of this period. According to Lovett, the wrath of God is poured out after the 70th week. The church therefore escapes the wrath, but goes through a supposed seven year tribulation. As I have previously stated, the pioneer of the prewrath rapture view as we know it today was undoubtedly Robert Van Kampen who was later supported by Marvin Rosenthall. The fact that Prasch disputes these simple facts is a testimony to his duplicitous character.

Jacob Prasch has hatched his own very own rapture theory that he has designated "intra-seal" in a conceited attempt to get it recognised as a credible thesis. In reality, Prasch's muddled theory is a corruption of the prewrath position. Prasch is an opportunist whose theory is an unoriginal mishmash between prewrath and pre-trib. He has taken the timing of the rapture from the prewrath camp, hence his attempt to pass off prewrath and intra seal as two variations of the same fundamental position. {3} This claim is an insult to prewrath scholarship. I haven't noticed any prewrath scholars rushing to agree with Prasch about the alleged similarities between prewrath and intra-seal. Ironically, in an attempt to promote his own gibberish, Prasch has the audacity to point out where prewrath scholars supposedly "get it wrong"! Today's prewrath scholars are, in my view, very careful in their exegesis, and unlike Prasch, they can back up their assertions with the scriptures. 

*Prasch's pneumatology is copied from cult leader John Nelson Darby, who was the first person to claim that the Restrainer of 2 Thessalonians is the Holy Spirit. Prewrath teachers generally maintain that the Archangel Michael is the Restrainer, and although they are not dogmatic, there is scriptural evidence to support their view.

*Prasch oscillates confusingly between a supposed seven year tribulation (pre-trib), and a three and a half year tribulation (prewrath). {4}

*Prasch differs with prewrath position regarding the timing of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 despite demonstrable proof that the two witnesses will be in Jerusalem during the second half of the 70th week of Daniel. {5}

The danger of Prasch's intra seal theory is that it adds to the general confusion surrounding the 70th week of Daniel. Intra-seal may actually work against the purposes of God and have the effect of strengthening the false pre-tribulation rapture theory which has such a stronghold on the Western church. Prasch has done no-one any favours with his wacky theory. Furthermore, no one, even within Moriel, with the exception of Prasch himself, appears to understand intra-seal. Like Darby's pre-trib rapture deception, intra-seal is nothing more than an exercise in pseudo academic vainglory and should be treated as such. I regard this whole sorry theory as a presumptuous misrepresentation of the Holy Spirit. (2 Corinthians 11:4).

Prasch: "Pentecost is reversed... the same as Jesus went and sent the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit goes and sends Jesus. In that interim period you have a powerless church that cannot fulfil its mission any more... The Holy Spirit will not be taken from the hearts of true believers but He will be taken from the world (Gen 6:3; 2 Th 2:6). God will, as it were, return to an Old Covenant dealing with man.." {6} None of these statements can be validated by the scriptures. (1 John 4:1).

Another one of Prasch's dubious claims is his insistence that he had sorted out the timing of the rapture before anyone else!

9th August 2016:

Prach: "LONG BEFORE the term 'pre-wrath' was crystallised... I and others like me.. BEFORE pre-wrath came into vogue, BEFORE the term was coined, I believed that the rapture was between the sixth and seventh seal.. I and others have ALWAYS believed that the rapture will not take place until the faithful church knows who the Antichrist is .. I believed it BEFORE pre-wrath was even termed 'pre wrath' and believed it BEFORE those books that launched pre-wrath were written." {7}

My response:

"Let us do a little calculation shall we? Jacob Prasch claims that he became a Christian in February of 1972 through The Children of God cult. After leaving The Children of God, he admits to getting caught up in various false teachings during the following five years.{1} That brings us to 1977. Robert Van Kampen taught and developed what is known today as the 'pre-wrath' rapture during the 1970s, and Marvin Rosenthal eventually published his book The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church in 1990.{2} Is JP seriously expecting us to believe that he had his eschatology all sorted out during the 1970's prior to Van Kampen and Rosenthall? There were two views of the rapture prior the 1970's: The classic post-tribulational view, and Darby's false pre-tribulational view which became popular after the 1830s. Dispensationalist Robert Gundry also modified the post-trib position to take account of the 7th seal. I am not aware of anyone preaching a rapture in between the 6th and 7th seal of Revelation pre-dating Gundry, Van Kampen and Rosenthall, and yet JP says that he and some mysterious 'others' believed this view. It does not add up does it? Perhaps this is JP's nod to his Irish descent since it is clearly a bit of Irish blarney! I do not like to call anyone an outright liar, but I do not know what else to call this piece of fiction!" {8}

Speculation about Prasch's claimed "Jewish descent" has also come into question recently. {9} It appears that Prasch not only has a fake Jewish identity, he has a fake rapture theory to match!

John Haller: "Without truth your love isn't worth very much." (53:00) {10}

John Haller and other Prasch supporters have been very remiss in not presenting ALL the facts about Jacob Prasch in their attempted defamation of David Nathan. (Proverbs 20:10,23; 11:1). As an attorney, Haller should know the value of presenting ALL the evidence in any given dispute. Unfortunately he has been one of Prasch's shills for some considerable time, along with Amos Farrell, Joshua Chavez (or whatever he calls himself), Marco Quintana, Ian Huxham and Bill Randles. Incidentally Bill Randles now says: "I deeply regret much of my involvement with Jacob". {11}

Hopefully the 2019 Columbus Bible Prophecy Conference will redress Prasch's false teaching and bring some sanity to the rapture question.

1.   http://fbchapel.com/content/2019-columbus-bible-prophecy-conference
2.   https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2016/08/jacob-prasch-moriel-ministries-and-his.html
3.   https://web.archive.org/web/20190119230115/http://www.moriel.org/component/k2/
itemlist/tag/prewrath.html
4.   https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2018/07/jacob-prasch-make-up-your-mind-how-long.html
5.   https://prewrathrapture.com/the_two_witnesses_minister_during_the_sep
6.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8BousC77kU7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3iu1t6kh-I&feature=youtu.be
8.   https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2016/08/moriel-gets-questioned-jacob-praschs.html
9.   https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2019/04/is-jacob-prasch-fake-jew.html
10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTBziQz3D7o
11. https://vimeo.com/345492408/comments?fbclid=IwAR373BDgexrFpmkg0QhXz8K9K6_NEwAw33PNTt0kRjPP6dZbPNtPWwG_rBU

BILL RANDLES CONTINUED VILIFICATION OF DAVID NATHAN!

I have moved this post from December 2018 to the current date rather than writing again. Bill Randles has decided to revive his vilification of David Nathan due to his break with Jacob Prasch. https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2019/08/31/an-odd-deference/

This is why I cannot deal with Bill Randles.. he is totally disingenuous. He clearly did not speak to David Nathan about the Blood of Jesus during the millennium, or in fact any other issue prior to the Q&A session(s)! Incidentally, I am only aware of one Q&A session.

For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. (Mathew 7:2).

Having declared his "epiphany" in December 2018, Bill Randles quickly reverted back to type and continued to drag David Nathan's name through the mud!




JUST THREE DAYS LATER:

"Why There Is Still A Question... (David Nathan)
https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2018/12/30/why-there-is-still-a-question-david-nathan/?fbclid=IwAR1qlTIN1rXDrrGh7M3NZgJrTr1efL2iDcE8ExILmpLPwHBfPd7UEDfvD6E

Bill Randles:

So what is my problem? Why haven’t I ‘forgiven ‘ him? *

My problem is that David has never explained why he said such an outrageous thing in the first place, and I have never heard him once specifically repudiate it. "In my view, the original issue which triggered all of this boils down to two statements of David Nathan’s;

“ The blood of Jesus will not profit anyone anything in the Millennium” and the twin statement in which Nathan strongly asserts that the blood sacrifices offered in the Millennium are in no way memorial. In other words, they do not point back to the cross of Jesus, as the Lord’s Supper does.
” God the Father did not Create anything”...

Lets go over the facts again shall we?

David Nathan has explained that his statement about the Blood of Jesus was badly expressed and that he was not succinct etc.

David Nathan: "The statement which I should not have made but rather should have sought to express myself very differently and that folk have objected to is, “The Blood of Jesus will not profit anyone, anything in the Millennium.” In using this phrase, which I regret, I was not stating that the Blood of Jesus does not cleanse in all ages as this would be a clear violation of scripture. His blood alone can take away sin and every sacrifice from Genesis 3:21, when the Lord clothed Adam and Eve in tunics of skin to the sacrifices of the Millennium all point to Jesus. In the teaching I kept using the word atone to describe the purpose of the millennial sacrifices in the sense that they do not remove sin but cover sin. I reiterate again that I do not teach nor believe that the sin of an animal or animals can ever remove sin. Not under the Old Testament, not now nor in the age to come. Only the Blood of Jesus can remove sin both now and forever, including the millennium. This is and has always been what I have believed though I did not express it succinctly in the series on Eschatology."
https://www.bolm.co.za/index_htm_files/Response%20to%20Bill%20Randles%20-%20Open%20Letter.pdf

David Nathan: "The bible is absolutely clear that God is the creator. The Father ordained creation. Jesus was the creator in perfect unity with the Father.. not that God the Father was not involved in creation.." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGuCiRUvriM&t=851s

The irony is that in October 2016 both Jacob Prasch and David Nathan mis-taught the millennium at Community Church Devore in Southern California. At this meeting, Jacob Prasch, David Nathan and Marco Quintana were all in complete agreement: After the rapture of the church, the age of grace comes to an end.

Jacob Prasch: "Once the harpazo transpires, the Lord will refocus His primary intentions on the salvation of Israel, although not salvation in the sense that we understand it, not by grace, it will ?? revert back to the Old Testament way of dealing with man and the nations." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNqKXRC8c0&feature=youtu.be

Why has David Nathan been singled out as a "heretic" by Bill Randles, and why has Jacob Prasch, who has also mis-taught the millennium, been excluded from his remarks? (Proverbs 28:21). In the meantime, although he had a complete month to do so, Bill Randles said he "hadn't had time" to examine Prasch's dubious intra-seal teachings including "Counting the Omer", and statements like "the Holy Spirit will not be in the world during the 70th week of Daniel", "Pentecost is reversed", etc. It would take perhaps an hour at the most for an experienced bible scholar/teacher to examine intra-seal and to find that it is utterly false. So what is the agenda?

I left Bill Randles a couple of messages on his FB page today 31st December 2018: